I know, I know, that update just came out and I’m already complaining about it. I get it. But it doesn’t seem like 343i do. The addition of Heroic Firefight was a good thing, but the changes didn’t go far enough, and all of the frustrating aspects of the gametype are still there. Where is spawn control? Where are shorter death timers? It doesn’t matter if the name Heroic is in the title, it’s still annoying as -Yoink- to get one hit by a homing bullet from across the map, only to face a 40 second timer, plus be spawned on the opposite side of the map. Those problems are all still there. If they absolutely have to keep the stupid death timer system, then put it on Mythic. TAKE IT OFF OF HEROIC. Bullet sponge enemies still are not fun. I lost my first game of Heroic because 8 people shooting at the same enemy for ~45 seconds wasn’t enough apparently. It’s dumb and ruins the gametype. Please.
Yeah I wish there wouldn’t be the long respawn timers in heroic or any firefight for that matter. that is the only aspect I really don’t like.
> 2533274816788253;2:
> Yeah I wish there wouldn’t be the long respawn timers in heroic or any firefight for that matter. that is the only aspect I really don’t like.
It’s the biggest issue for sure. I could see the justification for the current system in Mythic. It’s supposed to be a lot harder. But with how easily and cheaply you can die, especially in the later rounds, it doesn’t make the game harder really, just a lot more frustrating. Getting killed by the Wardens gravity ball thing is basically luck.
Is he going to shoot it at you once? Congratulations, you have a 40 second spawn and a 20 second run across the map. Have fun with 20% of your round disappearing based on nothing but luck!
Bullet sponge enemies are bad too. I understand that enemies need to be bulky enough to be a challenge for eight players. I get that. But I do not believe that the way that you fix that is making it so that eight people have to shoot at a single enemy with power weapons for over a minute. It’s dumb, uninteresting, and not challenging. Come up with some cool mechanics or something.
Off the top of my head. Warden spawns in a swarm of watchers that protect him with shields of some kind, so you and your team have to shoot them all down before you can do damage to him. He does this multiple times based off of how much life he has left. Kind of like a dumbed down Destiny strike boss. Or spawn in a Warden that moves around the map every time you do certain damage to him, and every time he teleports he spawns in another wave of enemies. These are relatively simple ideas that would make the game feel a lot less frustrating, IMO.
Nothing wrong with it, it plays fine for a casual game-type.
If you’re complaining about dying, then don’t. It’s Heroic. I’m glad they kept the spawn timer. Makes it still a small challenge, especially for those incapable.
> 2533274865035542;4:
> Nothing wrong with it, it plays fine for a casual game-type.
>
> If you’re complaining about dying, then don’t. It’s Heroic. I’m glad they kept the spawn timer. Makes it still a small challenge, especially for those incapable.
It’s not a challenge though. It’s just frustrating. Getting insta-killed with very little notification isn’t challenging. Having a 40 second respawn timer doesn’t make the actual mechanics of the fights more interesting. If they wanted to do something like what your are saying, a set amount of lives would do the job a lot more efficiently. Give every player 3 lives at the start of every round and a normal respawn timer. Death is still punished, but not nearly as frustrating as you sit there staring at a screen for 40 seconds just waiting.
> 2533274800772611;1:
> I know, I know, that update just came out and I’m already complaining about it. I get it. But it doesn’t seem like 343i do. The addition of Heroic Firefight was a good thing, but the changes didn’t go far enough, and all of the frustrating aspects of the gametype are still there. Where is spawn control? Where are shorter death timers? It doesn’t matter if the name Heroic is in the title, it’s still annoying as -Yoink- to get one hit by a homing bullet from across the map, only to face a 40 second timer, plus be spawned on the opposite side of the map. Those problems are all still there. If they absolutely have to keep the stupid death timer system, then put it on Mythic. TAKE IT OFF OF HEROIC. Bullet sponge enemies still are not fun. I lost my first game of Heroic because 8 people shooting at the same enemy for ~45 seconds wasn’t enough apparently. It’s dumb and ruins the gametype. Please.
It sounds like you’re complaining that you keep dying on an easier version of firefight.
Heroic is trivial, honestly, Maybe you just need to be a little more situational aware.
Nobody is going to spoon feed you, play smarter.
> 2533274825454566;6:
> > 2533274800772611;1:
> > I know, I know, that update just came out and I’m already complaining about it. I get it. But it doesn’t seem like 343i do. The addition of Heroic Firefight was a good thing, but the changes didn’t go far enough, and all of the frustrating aspects of the gametype are still there. Where is spawn control? Where are shorter death timers? It doesn’t matter if the name Heroic is in the title, it’s still annoying as -Yoink- to get one hit by a homing bullet from across the map, only to face a 40 second timer, plus be spawned on the opposite side of the map. Those problems are all still there. If they absolutely have to keep the stupid death timer system, then put it on Mythic. TAKE IT OFF OF HEROIC. Bullet sponge enemies still are not fun. I lost my first game of Heroic because 8 people shooting at the same enemy for ~45 seconds wasn’t enough apparently. It’s dumb and ruins the gametype. Please.
>
> It sounds like you’re complaining that you keep dying on an easier version of firefight.
>
> Heroic is trivial, honestly, Maybe you just need to be a little more situational aware.
> Nobody is going to spoon feed you, play smarter.
Everything I’ve said, with the exception of the shooting at the boss for more than 45 seconds thing, has been hypothetical. These are not systems that make the game more enjoyable, and I’m disappointed that 343i didn’t really address the problems when they seemingly had the opportunity. This would have been the best time possible to make these changes. They’re clearly, at least somewhat, acknowledging that people want different things from Firefight based on the fact that they are creating multiple difficulties. Why not then go in and actually make changes to the things that people have issues with? People that want it to be hard, and that like the spawn system, and the bullet spongy-ness have Mythic and Legendary to do that in. Heroic was their opportunity to make a different kind of Firefight for a different group of people and they failed IMO. I have no interest in bosses with no interesting mechanics, just shooting at it like a sandbag for over a minute. I have no interest in bad spawns and a frustrating respawn system. I feel like I’m not alone here either as I’ve seen other people that seem to agree with me.
I have only played a few FF games, it I haven’t had any issues with winning Heroic. In fact, I was concerned it would be too easy. It was a little close near the end, but I don’t think there needs to be a profuse amount of power weapons to finish off the bosses. Just a unified effort.
I must have gotten used to the spawn timers. It doesn’t bother me as much anymore. I think reducing and upping the difficulty might have been the most cost effective way to change up things in FF. That does not negate your criticism though. Maybe the timer issue will be something they change down the road.
> 2533274800772611;5:
> > 2533274865035542;4:
> > Nothing wrong with it, it plays fine for a casual game-type.
> >
> > If you’re complaining about dying, then don’t. It’s Heroic. I’m glad they kept the spawn timer. Makes it still a small challenge, especially for those incapable.
>
> It’s not a challenge though. It’s just frustrating. Getting insta-killed with very little notification isn’t challenging. Having a 40 second respawn timer doesn’t make the actual mechanics of the fights more interesting. If they wanted to do something like what your are saying, a set amount of lives would do the job a lot more efficiently. Give every player 3 lives at the start of every round and a normal respawn timer. Death is still punished, but not nearly as frustrating as you sit there staring at a screen for 40 seconds just waiting.
Frustrating? Insta-kill? Whatever, play Legendary Firefight and you’ll see insta-kill, or even Mythic Firefight.
Heroic’s for the casuals. Can’t handle it? What do you want? Normal Firefight? Next thing we know everyone will complain that that’s too hard too, and ask for an Easy Firefight. And yet, probably still complain. 343 can’t satisfy everyone, but this is what was definitely needed.
Lives also wouldn’t incorporate very well, as it never worked out before. Since Firefight is a JIP session, the lives would be abused as well as cause more players to get frustrated. You’re complaining about spawn rate, and you’re asking for none at all? After 3 deaths, all people are going to do is quit, and either rejoin and get 3 lives again or have somebody else join and get 3 lives to spare.
If anything, it should be round-life based, that would be a better challenge. If you can’t finish the round, then you’re out until the next one.
Personally, the 30-second respawn timer isn’t that bad, it just gets boring. I’ve played customs where it was 3 minutes.
Or if you’re like me and have 591 Warthogs (Probably more now though, as I counted that on Wednesday) then just use the respawn glitch.
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, WZFF Heroic is still WZFF. 343i wanted to make an easier game mode without abandoning the aspects that make it theirs, even if those aspects are particularly like by people.
We won’t be getting a more traditional FF in Halo 5, and I doubt 343i is keen on removing aspects of WZFF that make it, for better or worse, unique. Personally, I notice the decrease in difficulty in Heroic compared to pre-update WZFF. Yes, I still died some, but even in the final round, losing 1 or 2 Spartans didn’t mean the game was an automatic loss. You could see players going through the game with more ease than before. I think 343i successfully made WZFF easier without it becoming too easy.
> 2533274800772611;7:
> > 2533274825454566;6:
> > > 2533274800772611;1:
> > > I know, I know, that update just came out and I’m already complaining about it. I get it. But it doesn’t seem like 343i do. The addition of Heroic Firefight was a good thing, but the changes didn’t go far enough, and all of the frustrating aspects of the gametype are still there. Where is spawn control? Where are shorter death timers? It doesn’t matter if the name Heroic is in the title, it’s still annoying as -Yoink- to get one hit by a homing bullet from across the map, only to face a 40 second timer, plus be spawned on the opposite side of the map. Those problems are all still there. If they absolutely have to keep the stupid death timer system, then put it on Mythic. TAKE IT OFF OF HEROIC. Bullet sponge enemies still are not fun. I lost my first game of Heroic because 8 people shooting at the same enemy for ~45 seconds wasn’t enough apparently. It’s dumb and ruins the gametype. Please.
> >
> > It sounds like you’re complaining that you keep dying on an easier version of firefight.
> >
> > Heroic is trivial, honestly, Maybe you just need to be a little more situational aware.
> > Nobody is going to spoon feed you, play smarter.
>
> Everything I’ve said, with the exception of the shooting at the boss for more than 45 seconds thing, has been hypothetical. These are not systems that make the game more enjoyable, and I’m disappointed that 343i didn’t really address the problems when they seemingly had the opportunity. This would have been the best time possible to make these changes. They’re clearly, at least somewhat, acknowledging that people want different things from Firefight based on the fact that they are creating multiple difficulties. Why not then go in and actually make changes to the things that people have issues with? People that want it to be hard, and that like the spawn system, and the bullet spongy-ness have Mythic and Legendary to do that in. Heroic was their opportunity to make a different kind of Firefight for a different group of people and they failed IMO. I have no interest in bosses with no interesting mechanics, just shooting at it like a sandbag for over a minute. I have no interest in bad spawns and a frustrating respawn system. I feel like I’m not alone here either as I’ve seen other people that seem to agree with me.
So what you’re saying is, you want “Easy warzone firefight”
Also, I’m interested to know what enemies in firefight you find bullet spongy? Even warden can be melted when hitting his weakspot.
If you’re talking in hypotheticals, then you haven’t actually experienced the situations that you’ve decided to make a thread about.
I’d also like to point out the fact, that the difficulties don’t change the game as much as you’re making out, it’s not for different people, it’s for the same people of different skill levels and req inventories.
> 2533274863544717;8:
> I have only played a few FF games, it I haven’t had any issues with winning Heroic. In fact, I was concerned it would be too easy. It was a little close near the end, but I don’t think there needs to be a profuse amount of power weapons to finish off the bosses. Just a unified effort.
>
> I must have gotten used to the spawn timers. It doesn’t bother me as much anymore. I think reducing and upping the difficulty might have been the most cost effective way to change up things in FF. That does not negate your criticism though. Maybe the timer issue will be something they change down the road.
It’s not a difficulty thing. I’ve only lost one of the games I’ve played. It’s just that these are criticisms that I’ve seen and agreed with about Firefight since day one, and this seemed like the perfect time to fix them. I understand that people like it the way that it is, and legendary and mythic should be left alone for those people. But what’s that point of making an “easier” version of Firefight if all of the real criticisms are all still there. I never had a problem with how hard Firefight was, but how the systems implemented created a game that was more frustrating than rewarding and how losses felt cheap. I know that I’ve said this a like a hundred times now, but insta-kills in the final round never felt good and to compound them by having a horrible spawn system, a 40 second respawn timer, and bosses that have way too much life with no interesting mechanics has basically killed the gametype for me.
> 2533274865035542;9:
> > 2533274800772611;5:
> > > 2533274865035542;4:
> > > Nothing wrong with it, it plays fine for a casual game-type.
> > >
> > > If you’re complaining about dying, then don’t. It’s Heroic. I’m glad they kept the spawn timer. Makes it still a small challenge, especially for those incapable.
> >
> > It’s not a challenge though. It’s just frustrating. Getting insta-killed with very little notification isn’t challenging. Having a 40 second respawn timer doesn’t make the actual mechanics of the fights more interesting. If they wanted to do something like what your are saying, a set amount of lives would do the job a lot more efficiently. Give every player 3 lives at the start of every round and a normal respawn timer. Death is still punished, but not nearly as frustrating as you sit there staring at a screen for 40 seconds just waiting.
>
> Frustrating? Insta-kill? Whatever, play Legendary Firefight and you’ll see insta-kill, or even Mythic Firefight.
>
> Heroic’s for the casuals. Can’t handle it? What do you want? Normal Firefight? Next thing we know everyone will complain that that’s too hard too, and ask for an Easy Firefight. And yet, probably still complain. 343 can’t satisfy everyone, but this is what was definitely needed.
>
> Lives also wouldn’t incorporate very well, as it never worked out before. Since Firefight is a JIP session, the lives would be abused as well as cause more players to get frustrated. You’re complaining about spawn rate, and you’re asking for none at all? After 3 deaths, all people are going to do is quit, and either rejoin and get 3 lives again or have somebody else join and get 3 lives to spare.
>
> If anything, it should be round-life based, that would be a better challenge. If you can’t finish the round, then you’re out until the next one.
>
> Personally, the 30-second respawn timer isn’t that bad, it just gets boring. I’ve played customs where it was 3 minutes.
>
> Or if you’re like me and have 591 Warthogs (Probably more now though, as I counted that on Wednesday) then just use the respawn glitch.
I feel like you aren’t reading what I’m writing. I don’t mind challenge. The way that 343i have gone bout making it “more challenging” though is frustrating and cheap.
No, I don’t want Normal or Easy firefight. I want the systems that they have implemented to be changed to make a gametype that is more rewarding and interesting while also keeping as much of the challenge as possible. Mechanically wise, reducing the respawn timer wouldn’t make Mythic Wardens any easier. REQ’s could still despawn. You’d still be punished for dying. The only “mechanic” that any of the enemies in Warzone have are to have a lot of life. That’s it. They don’t so anything that makes them actually hard to kill. You just need eight people shooting at them for a minute and them die. Why not create bosses that are actually mechanically interesting? I gave two half -Yoinked!- examples on the spot earlier and they were both better than anything 343i have implemented into the gametype… You don’t think that with a little bit of time they could do a lot, but no, they just create the Grunt Jockey, another bullet sponge that it’s actually intereating or hard to fight, and just insta-kills you with homing weapons.
Lives could incorporate fine. People couldn’t join-in-progress in the middle of the round, and would have to wait for the current round to be over to spawn in. Boom problem solved.
Your life suggestion is the exact same as what I said.
You yourself are admitting the mechanic is boring.
You can’t defend a gametype because of a glitch.
I realize you didn’t mean that the level of difficulty was an issue for you. I mentioned it as a justification for why they haven’t addressed some of the other issues you are talking about. What I meant by that is, maybe changing all of those things was not as cost effective for them to change, and merely changing the difficulty level was.
I agree that it’s pretty much a bland mode. Stand and shoot the boss here…okay find more ammo, stand and shoot the boss over there…I probably won’t be playing it that much. I do look forward to Mythic, and I hope that in the next few updates they can make some of those changes the community is asking for.
heroic WZFF doesn’t fix some annoying bugaboos, but it does make them almost irrelevant if you have bathed in the fires of damnation that the old (legendary) WZFF is
> 2533274817408735;10:
> Unfortunately, at the end of the day, WZFF Heroic is still WZFF. 343i wanted to make an easier game mode without abandoning the aspects that make it theirs, even if those aspects are particularly like by people.
> We won’t be getting a more traditional FF in Halo 5, and I doubt 343i is keen on removing aspects of WZFF that make it, for better or worse, unique. Personally, I notice the decrease in difficulty in Heroic compared to pre-update WZFF. Yes, I still died some, but even in the final round, losing 1 or 2 Spartans didn’t mean the game was an automatic loss. You could see players going through the game with more ease than before. I think 343i successfully made WZFF easier without it becoming too easy.
I agree. For what it was trying to do it did it’s job fine. I just think that they are trying to do the wrong thing.
> 2533274816788253;2:
> Yeah I wish there wouldn’t be the long respawn timers in heroic or any firefight for that matter. that is the only aspect I really don’t like.
Same, that’s my only real complaint about the gametype. Too many times I’ve been killed by a laggy Hunter cannon on Round 5 and have to wait out a bs death.
Wait, how did you lose on heroic? The timer is long, but gives a bit of advantage to the enemies since you can launch tanks, rocket launchers, banshees, ghosts, Hydras, etc.
I may win the vast majority of matches, but I find the extended timer to simply be annoying.
I’m surprised to find, at least for me, there really isn’t a qualitative difference between Heroic and Legendary. Both are easy enough (given you have a big REQ pool). I was kind of hoping that there would be no cheap deaths on Heroic, but no there still is. It’s just, easier? I guess? I don’t really notice a qualitative difference, but it might still be there.
I’m just waiting for a goofier version of WZFF. Unlimited ammo, more enemies, something dumb and fun; no REQ limit. I don’t know, something incredibly casual. WZFF isn’t hard, it’s just tedious at times, and as OP mentioned, they haven’t addressed some glaring issues with the gametype.
EDIT: So yesterday I thought that Legendary was Mythic, because the Mythic playlist only showed up today for me. I stick to my earlier points, but I’ll have to say that Mythic IS noticeably more difficult than Heroic and Legendary by far. I actually don’t really like Mythic, I think that level of difficulty was better suited to ODST Firefight; but the challenge was nice.
> 2533274865035542;4:
> Nothing wrong with it, it plays fine for a casual game-type.
>
> If you’re complaining about dying, then don’t. It’s Heroic. I’m glad they kept the spawn timer. Makes it still a small challenge, especially for those incapable.
Yeah i agree, and i think it enforces team play and mapcontrol. Want to do better and have less complaints, try harder as a player and get the reward you deserve.
i personaly didnt notice a big diference in heroic and legendary ff.