In Halo 3: ODST, Firefight was introduced for the first time. It was an instant hit, and everyone loved it enough to provide countless hours of enjoyment from a simple enough idea. In Halo:Reach, Firefight got a whole load of brand-new perks and additions to enhance it. However, the Reach firefight proved far inferior to the ODST version.
Why did this happen? Bungie was too focused on enhancing the experience they failed to notice what was so great about it in the first place.
-Map Layout: The maps in ODST were much more fluid than in Reach. Take Lost Platoon. You always spawned in that little room, which you would have to move out of to get to the main structure. This structure had ammo, but was not easily defended due to flanking positions. In Reach, on the other hand, the maps were stagnant. Take Boardwalk. You started out in a fortress with all the ammo you could ever need, with little need of moving around the map itself.
-Weapon Spawns: Think of Windward in ODST. You started off in an easily defended position, but you still ended up moving around the map. Why? Because there were power weapons in the far corners of the map. In Reach, the loadouts give you the weapon of your choice and the ammo drops don’t promote map movement with AAs, they are easily gotten and returned.
-Ammo: The final reason it was fun was from those times you took the last of the pistol ammo on the weapon shelf and found out you needed to leave and pick up a new weapon. In Reach, the feeling of desperation is lost as you have infinite ammo crates in your already impregnable bases, that give you ammo for all human standard weapons.
These changes all had the same effect; Everyone mostly stayed in their new fortresses with infinite ammo and killed approaching enemies -Yoink!--zombie style. The online gametypes of power weapon loadouts and infinite ammo didn’t help much. So if Halo 4 ships with firefight, 343i needs to keep in mind the things that made firefight successful and implement them:
- Maps encouraging movement
- Weapon spawns all across the map, promoting movement
- No more infinite ammo crates
- Maybe even include factors to make people need to move to a new base every round.
I don’t know how 343i is going to create the Installation 04 firefight map, but I hope they don’t mess it up like the Reach maps did.
I completely aggree with you. Reach didn’t feel as serious as ODST and the maps were terrible, expect unearthed which is awsome. I hope 343 brings back true ODST firefight in Halo 4 and doesn’t let you unlock achievements with custom skulls.
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my biggest problems in FF on ODST was the serious lag if your not host (Gears did it better) and the serious lack of ammo.
Reach to me has the biggest weakness in FF and that is the SUPER SERIOUS lack of spaces to hide or camp with sniper.
it seems that anywhere you land thats 7 feet off the ground you get a 10 second count down. I figured since we now have jet packs our imagination would be the limit on where to snipe and that Super Bouncing was no longer needed.
But I’ve come to realize that the Master Chief even without a Jet Pack on Halo 2 had more freedom and more access to higher levels than Noble Six with Jet Pack. and yes the super lag on Reach in FF is I think worst than on ODST.
oh yeah not allowing us to pick up enemy weapons or grenades off the ground on Reach was really lame.
No more count downs on FF for Halo 4 pleeeeeeease!
Reach Firefight is entertaining and I play it a lot, but I agree ODST’s Firefight was much more intense. Getting those Vidmaster Challenges were amazing.
I vote for ODST’s Firefight Maps being ported over to Reach. Here is an example.
Very true. You always start in a base with plenty of ammo. I’d like the feel of fighting my way to a holding point and surviving again.
I posted this point once before, so I apologize to anyone who might have already read it.:
The biggest problem I have with Firefight 2.0 is similar to the problem I had with Firefight 1.0: You’re basically forced to sit tight in part of the level and defend it the entire time. It’s the same problem I find myself having with Zombies in COD. Everyone picks a spot to hold up and then doesn’t budge. In Zombies it makes a bit more sense, but in Firefight it sucks a lot of the flavor that makes Halo unique out of the experience.
You’re right about the ammo crates. They need to go. Or, rather, they need to deplete and eventually empty. Then, to really utilize the entire Firefight map, 343i needs to place two or three other ammo crates in different sections of the level. By doing this, you kill two birds with one stone:
- The original ODST Firefight feel comes back, thanks to a sense of dire straits created by the ammo shortage.
- Players are forced to move and inhabit different parts of the level, ultimately creating multiple new engagements per map and enriching the overall experience.
I think I speak for the majority of people who play Firefight when I say I’m bored. It’s the same interactions over and over. You’re basically tethered to the same ammo crate every time you play a level, and the only way you can break free of that is by accepting the fact you’ll have to roll with crappy Covenant weapons the entire time. And that, frankly, isn’t very fun because, if you’re anything like me, you loath Covenant weapons to begin with.
firefight went from trying to survive for as long as you can with friends with limited ammo and tough enemies, to playing with 3 other randoms competing for virtual money.
While I agree that the Firefight playlists in Reach lack the need to move around the map (save for grabbing ordinance) and reduce the overall survival aspect via the infinite ammo crates…that is kinda what I expect out of a playlist called “Firefight Arcade”. I mean…I don’t expect a hardcore survival gametype, I expect an arcade gametype that feels like the old school “tear through everything while going for the high score” type matches…in Firefight Arcade.
What I think should be done is an overhaul to Limited, rather than try to make Arcade something it isn’t. The beauty of having these customization options is that we can have multiple styles of Firefight living side by side.
Here are my suggestions to Limited:
-No time limit. This makes it more like ODST’s, and makes it more about seeing how long you can last and less about just holding out for 30 minutes
-No Ammo crates. This not only eliminates the whole infinite ammo problem, but also makes ordinance drops, enemy weapons, turrets and vehicles far more lucrative, thereby encouraging players to search the map for weapons and ammo.
-Use the Red/Yellow/Blue skulls to increase enemy ferocity. Having the A.I. be more aggressive and deadly would discourage players from just rushing into a group of grunts to grab a weapon, and would bring back ODST’s “pick your battles” type of gameplay.
Other than the ammo issue that was already mentioned, what really made ODST firefight superior to Reach is that the ODST sandbox had the best balance of any Halo game. Balance isn’t just for multiplayer, it is just as important in campaign and co-op modes.\
Every weapon had a unique role to play in fighting the Covenant at each set. Plasma pistols, rifles, and grenades were all essential in breaking the ridiculous Brute shields(especially with tilt), Brute weapons were important when fighting with melee for black eye, The SMG was important for dealing with drones and when sheer volume of fire is needed, The M6S was your greatest tool for dealing with the hordes of grunts, jackals, and mythic brutes, and the Carbine was an important tool for conserving human ammo while still beong able to take on Brute post tilt.
Imagining all the different strategies if a sandbox of that caliber in Halo 4 and it included dual wielding? If a solid sandbox was combined with the ability to customize what weapons are in the ammo box(AR/pistol or BR/SMG or some combination) instead of just having a blanket unlimited ammo box I would love firefight again.
> Other than the ammo issue that was already mentioned, what really made ODST firefight superior to Reach is that the ODST sandbox had the best balance of any Halo game. Balance isn’t just for multiplayer, it is just as important in campaign and co-op modes.
>
> Every weapon had a unique role to play in fighting the Covenant at each set. Plasma pistols, rifles, and grenades were all essential in breaking the ridiculous Brute shields(especially with tilt), Brute weapons were important when fighting with melee for black eye, The SMG was important for dealing with drones and when sheer volume of fire is needed, The M6S was your greatest tool for dealing with the hordes of grunts, jackals, and mythic brutes, and the Carbine was an important tool for conserving human ammo while still beong able to take on Brute post tilt.
>
> Imagining all the different strategies if a sandbox of that caliber in Halo 4 and it included dual wielding? If a solid sandbox was combined with the ability to customize what weapons are in the ammo box(AR/pistol or BR/SMG or some combination) instead of just having a blanket unlimited ammo box I would love firefight again.
ya, I agree on how ODST was more balanced for weapons and Having gun racks was far superior. Infinite ammo isn’t nessasary in classic firefight and took away from the desparation that ODST had. Having a closet full of weapons makes for a better experience.
The main difference is not having Black Eye on Round 3. Try it on Heroic. It feels nostalgically difficult.
I agree 100%
The AI also need to patrol and hunt again like in ODST.
You know what happened? Armor Abilities… and loadouts… made the game worse overall.
> You know what happened? Armor Abilities… and loadouts… made the game worse overall.
Loadouts aren’t a bad thing. The problem is Bungie thought “Oooooh shiny new thing!” and tried putting it in every playlist when in reality it was onlly wanted and needed in invasion and customs.
> In Halo 3: ODST, Firefight was introduced for the first time. It was an instant hit, and everyone loved it enough to provide countless hours of enjoyment from a simple enough idea. In Halo:Reach, Firefight got a whole load of brand-new perks and additions to enhance it. However, the Reach firefight proved far inferior to the ODST version.
>
> Why did this happen? Bungie was too focused on enhancing the experience they failed to notice what was so great about it in the first place.
> -Map Layout: The maps in ODST were much more fluid than in Reach. Take Lost Platoon. You always spawned in that little room, which you would have to move out of to get to the main structure. This structure had ammo, but was not easily defended due to flanking positions. In Reach, on the other hand, the maps were stagnant. Take Boardwalk. You started out in a fortress with all the ammo you could ever need, with little need of moving around the map itself.
> -Weapon Spawns: Think of Windward in ODST. You started off in an easily defended position, but you still ended up moving around the map. Why? Because there were power weapons in the far corners of the map. In Reach, the loadouts give you the weapon of your choice and the ammo drops don’t promote map movement with AAs, they are easily gotten and returned.
> -Ammo: The final reason it was fun was from those times you took the last of the pistol ammo on the weapon shelf and found out you needed to leave and pick up a new weapon. In Reach, the feeling of desperation is lost as you have infinite ammo crates in your already impregnable bases, that give you ammo for all human standard weapons.
>
> These changes all had the same effect; Everyone mostly stayed in their new fortresses with infinite ammo and killed approaching enemies -Yoink!--zombie style. The online gametypes of power weapon loadouts and infinite ammo didn’t help much. So if Halo 4 ships with firefight, 343i needs to keep in mind the things that made firefight successful and implement them:
> - Maps encouraging movement
> - Weapon spawns all across the map, promoting movement
> - No more infinite ammo crates
> - Maybe even include factors to make people need to move to a new base every round.
>
> I don’t know how 343i is going to create the Installation 04 firefight map, but I hope they don’t mess it up like the Reach maps did.
I entirely agree. I hope 343 sees this.
