Firefight mode in Reach-Is the fire extinguished? Could there be improvements made? And what ever ha

Today I would like to discuss a topic in relation to Firefight. As many people know,this was introduced in Halo 3:ODST and proved quite popular among the fans. This was a fun time for many as we finally got to fight off Covenant without needing to play the campaign. This was furthered in Reach,when,Firefight was brought into Matchmaking,allowing us to team up with other people or go it alone in playlists such as Score Attack.

Currently there are 4 playlists dedicated to Firefight. Respectively,they are:

**Score Attack-**Solo fighting.
Doubles Attck-Team of two.
Firefight Limited-Teams of four,with the exception of having a set amount of lives which are regained after every round.
Firefight Arcade-Teams of four with unlimited lives to cause as much carnage as possible within the time limit.

Personally,thats alot of crap. The way the playlists are set up are designed for commendations in mind,not fun. The only ‘teamwork’ that is in Reach’s Firefight is the Assist commendation,which is pretty pathethic from my point of view.

Here is a very valid opinion about Firefight from one of the posters.

> Firefight in ODST: A group of up to four friends working together as a team to get as far as possible. The main focus is to survive, preserve ammo for SMG, magnum and the couple of power weapons that spawn on the map.
>
> Firefight in Reach: Four randoms playing lone-wolf-style to get the most amounts of kills/points and thus credits without any regard to your so-called “team mates”, how often you or they die, conserving ammo, and so on.

Now I don’t know about you,but I seem to think with the transfer to Reach that Firefight lost it’s fun. In ODST you had to be careful,always planning ahead incase something unnecessary came up,as the rounds were often randomly generated. In Halo Reach almost every round in any Firefight mode is predictable,with the exception of the occasional drop pod. It’s with this predictability with what I think has caused Firefight to become lost to me.

In ODST,you only had your pistol,your SMG and a handful of weapons per round,with limted ammo supply drops. If you ran out of ammo,you would have to improvise quickly to keep on your feet and stay alive,or to find the appropiate weapon for the situation. I often remember that I had to run around a map trying to find a decent weapon to take out Hunters and Brute Cheiftans with real terror in me should I be too slow and face a crushing death,but it was fun to experience that terror,because it added to good play,especially when it boiled down to those final rounds where I was the Last Man Standing and my teammates would often try their best to encourage me to take down the enemy.

In Reach,were given so many new options on how to play,and I’m thankful for that.We got MATCHMAKING implented into it! The AA’s certainly added new tension,with saving my teammates with a Dropsheild or using the Active-Camo to take out an Elite General.The Ordinance drops added a fun twist,since it replaced the weapon spawning per round,and I didn’t have to drag myself halfway across the map to get it without the risk of getting duped on by a Jackal with a Carbine-But that is exactly why I think it has lost it’s fun.

When I play FF in Reach,I know how to beat it. Easily. The rounds are set and are very predictable,we have unlimited ammo because of the supply caches,and I think thats why Firefight seems all wrong to me in Reach. The one thing that is missing is perhaps the fear of running out of ammo that made it fun for me. To me,FF in Reach is simply a case of Shoot.Reload.Resupply. Even with the Firefight Limited playlist,it still seemed to be lacking the one thing that would get my heart pacing.

I was so disappointed with the FF in Reach that I went back to ODST to play its FF mode. I found myself surprised that I wasn’t even able to make it past the first round on Heroic diffculty without getting my -Yoink- handed to me. BY GRUNTS!!! I was so rusty,yet I played more Firefight on Reach than I ever did on ODST. I was also finding myself constantly running out of ammo,and it brought back the nostalgia I had when I remember playing with my freinds on it. It was the one good thing that I enjoyed about Firefight-The tactic of trying to survive. It made me smile enough just to inspire me about writing this post.

There was also the lack of voices for use in Firefight. I honestly expected at least the Arbiter’s,Guilty Spark’s,The Gravemind’s and The Prophet of Truth’s voice to be available for use. But to no avail. I felt like Bungie left Firefight in the dirt compared to the campaign,even multiplayer is better than Reach’s Firefight mode.

I am now asking 343I on a personal basis. Will you be able to restore the fun in Firefight for the next Halo game? Can I trust you to be able to help me find the fun in firefight that I first had?

On another note,if Beta players also recall,we had a mode called Firefight Versus. Specifically I’m referring to the Generator Defense gamemode. It was a 6-player game,divided into two teams of attacking Elites and defending Spartans. The players who were the Elites were often supported by Grunts,Jackals and Brutes and had to destroy the generators,while the Spartans had to defend three generators placed across the map. Both teams had limited lives. If the Spartans ran out of lives,or if all the generators were destroyed,it was round over for the defending team. If the Elites were all defeated,along with any supporting troops,it was round over for them.It was very fun to play during the beta and I was waiting anxiously for it.

When the polished version finally came online via ‘Versus Mode’ playlist a good few months back. It had been reduced to being played by just the normal Firefight crew-Four Spartans defending the generators from AI enemies. This was indredibly dissapointing to me as it looked to be a very competetive and popular gametype when it was in the Beta. I hope that this gametype will be restored when 343 take over for Reach.

TL;DR? I’m disgusted with Reach’s FF mode as theres no fun in it. I’m also wondering why the beta version of Generator Defense was never implented into FF Matchmaking,especially when the limited ‘Versus Mode’ came out a few months ago.

Please,share your thoughts on this.

I totaly agree. :smiley: But I think there is already a post about this.

> I totaly agree. :smiley: But I think there is already a post about this.

Not that I have seen…Unlessing your referring to the one where Feild Marshals and Zealots should be put it? No,I’m talking about the loss of the the fun experience I had in ODST’s Firefight compared to Reach’s. Im also addressing why a potentially great gametype got scrapped.

Okay…

So Firefight in Reach is really what you make of it. I think it was very poorly designed from the get-go, offering a very, very streamlined and easy experience, as opposed to ODST which was supposed to be a huge challenge. However, I’ve messed around with a lot of the AI settings, Wave Properties, and Damage settings to create some very challenging firefight scenarios.

What 343 needs to do is start using the AI modifiers to increase difficulty. It creates challenge in the right way, rather than adding stupid skulls like Black Eye that just add annoyance instead of an actual challenge. Furthermore, they really need to overhaul how “Difficult” the “Difficult” enemy sets are. Really, Elite Generals are not that hard to beat…But they’re so accurate with all those Fuel Rod Guns they tote, that they’re quite a -Yoink- and will usually eat up a life or two because they just instantly see and kill you, and there isn’t much you can do about it.

343 needs to patch Firefight so that FRG enemies are included much less, and the AI is made smarter with skulls to compensate. Having some grunts with FRGs is alright, but having 2-3 Elite Generals with them is simply unacceptable. All Elite Generals do is run straight at you spamming the FRG, and that’s something a Grunt should do, not an Elite. Replace them with Dual Plasma rifles and you’ll have a real challenge on your hands…

Point is: Firefight is still challenging in the wrong way. It’s more about cheap AI tactics, when it should be about advanced AI and using your wits.

> Furthermore, they really need to overhaul how “Difficult” the “Difficult” enemy sets are. Really, Elite Generals are not that hard to beat…But they’re so accurate with all those Fuel Rod Guns they tote, that they’re quite a Yoink! and will usually eat up a life or two because they just instantly see and kill you, and there isn’t much you can do about it.

Well I guess thats why we should use our Armour Abilities to fend off against them,dropsheild and Armour Lockup being the best way to deal with the situation. Its more of a bore than an actual annoyance with FRG spam. Although I do think they should definately fire less. The AI in Halo 3 and ODST fired at least half as fast as the Grunts and Elites do with the FRG’s in Reach.

> Replace them with Dual Plasma rifles and you’ll have a real challenge on your hands…

If only that was made more common,it would cause players to seek help from eachother to find a way to take the SOB’s down. The only challenge I get in FF is from the Elites,and even then,their not that incredibly challenging to defeat.

I agree and support this idea 100%.

BTW have you tried FF without ammo crates? It’s much more enjoyable/harder and if you play it on legendary difficulty it’s even more better.

I don’t remember using much covie weapons in original (reach) firefight (limited). But when I took ammo crates off, it really added the layer of horror in the game. (Still not as good as in ODST but still good).

> I agree and support this idea 100%.
>
> BTW have you tried FF without ammo crates? It’s much more enjoyable/harder and if you play it on legendary difficulty it’s even more better.
>
> I don’t remember using much covie weapons in original (reach) firefight (limited). But when I took ammo crates off, it really added the layer of horror in the game. (Still not as good as in ODST but still good).

Idea?? Nawh,this is just more of a rant regarding FF than an idea.

I have tried playing FF without the ammo crates,but it still doesn’t give me that feeling I so badly desire. Theres always an abundance of weapons to be found elsewhere. Having Famine on with Ammo crates off does help restore some of that feeling though. It just still feels so diffirent.

Firefight in ODST: A group of up to four friends working together as a team to get as far as possible. The main focus is to survive, preserve ammo for SMG, magnum and the couple of power weapons that spawn on the map.

Firefight in Reach: Four randoms playing lone-wolf-style to get the most amounts of kills/points and thus credits without any regard to your so-called “team mates”, how often you or they die, conserving ammo, and so on.

> Firefight in ODST: A group of up to four friends working together as a team to get as far as possible. The main focus is to survive, preserve ammo for SMG, magnum and the couple of power weapons that spawn on the map.
>
> Firefight in Reach: Four randoms playing lone-wolf-style to get the most amounts of kills/points and thus credits without any regard to your so-called “team mates”, how often you or they die, conserving ammo, and so on.

Probably the best summed-up version I’ve heard so far. It’s true though. There is nothing in Reach FF that mirrors in anyway the ODST style of FF.

You can easily create a custom FF mode that very much plays like ODST’s FF. But since it’s a custom game, you will earn hardly any credits. And this is turn makes playing custom FF games uninteresting to the vast majority of Reach players.

> You can easily create a custom FF mode that very much plays like ODST’s FF. But since it’s a custom game, you will earn hardly any credits. And this is turn makes playing custom FF games uninteresting to the vast majority of Reach players.

I couldn’t care less about credit earnings. There is just no motivation of teamwork/survival,even with those settings enabled. I just want a fun FF game that I can enjoy. Not just some dead copy.

Generator Defense was so much fun in the beta! Trying to get that last generator in the spartans base as elites with seconds to go was nail biting and yes i miss the odst days reach has lost its feel for survival, I’m sure 343 sees that and will add a much more improved firefight with the title update along with generator defense :slight_smile:

> Generator Defense was so much fun in the beta! Trying to get that last generator in the spartans base as elites with seconds to go was nail biting and yes i miss the odst days reach has lost its feel for survival, I’m sure 343 sees that and will add a much more improved firefight with the title update along with generator defense :slight_smile:

Oh,God it was so much fun! I mean it’s in the Firefight game lobby and its just sitting there looking pathethic for itself.

You know,I propose we build the ultimate FireFight mode for Reach. We should back the movement speed from Halo 3,as it was in ODST aswell. Allow armour abilities aswell,but only the support types-Hologram,Active Camoflauge,Dropsheild.

We build up from the classic ODST style firefight.Add the Tough Luck,Catch,and Black Eye skulls for each round. And have the Famine,Tilt,and Mythic skulls for the sets. Make it a maximum of four sets on Heroic difficulty

For weapons,set the default as AR (To act as SMG) and Pistol to ensure the classic feel. Have the waves of Brutes,Jackals,Hunters and Finally Cheiftans. I think we should also bring in the Jetpack Elites to compensate for the lack of Drones in FireFight,since their both lightly armoured and die very quickly. I’m gonna leave this up to the community,but I wanna see what you guys can come up with. I’ll edit my OP so I can take suggestions for the Ultimate Classic FireFight mode for Reach.

The biggest problem when trying to re-create ODST-style FF in Reach are the ammo caches since they have an unlimited supply. So even if you started out with “only” the AR and magnum, which both are pretty decent weapons in FF, you would never run out of ammo.

On the other hand, not having any ammo caches would also suck, in my opinion. The ability to headshot opponents to dispose of them quickly is pretty vital on higher difficulty settings, and with only 24 rounds total (8 in weapon, 16 extra rounds)…

I don’t know, but that seems terribly low compared to ODST. And the only other headshot-capable weapon you’ll get your hands on is the needle rifle which is used almost exclusively by Jackals and Skirmishers unless you throw Elite Heritcs in and hope they spawn with DMRs and magnums.

And the moment Elite Heretics drop the DMR and you have ammo caches, it becomes a tad too easy again since you now have unlimited ammo for that rifle.

ODST Firefight was a helluva lot better then Reach’s. Just sayin’.

> The biggest problem when trying to re-create ODST-style FF in Reach are the ammo caches since they have an unlimited supply. So even if you started out with “only” the AR and magnum, which both are pretty decent weapons in FF, you would never run out of ammo.
>
> On the other hand, not having any ammo caches would also suck, in my opinion. The ability to headshot opponents to dispose of them quickly is pretty vital on higher difficulty settings, and with only 24 rounds total (8 in weapon, 16 extra rounds)…
>
> I don’t know, but that seems terribly low compared to ODST. And the only other headshot-capable weapon you’ll get your hands on is the needle rifle which is used almost exclusively by Jackals and Skirmishers unless you throw Elite Heritcs in and hope they spawn with DMRs and magnums.
>
> And the moment Elite Heretics drop the DMR and you have ammo caches, it becomes a tad too easy again since you now have unlimited ammo for that rifle.

Well,obviously I’m not going to implement the weapon caches. I don’t like the fact that we can only turn them off or on,it doesn’t seem fair that we can’t give them a ‘Limited clip’ sort of thing for Pistol and AR.

As for headshot weapons,we could have jackal/Skirmisher support,chances are they would likely have a Needler Rifle the higher up their group is. Perhaps we replace the Pistol with the DMR. That’s an extra 30 rounds with a total of 45. To be honest,I haven’t properly thought out the weapons/AI waves thing yet,and I was looking to here to see what we could try and suggest. I have no problems with ditching AA’s and ammo caches,I can implement the skulls into a 4 set system. But as far as that goes I’m pretty stumped really.

> > Generator Defense was so much fun in the beta! Trying to get that last generator in the spartans base as elites with seconds to go was nail biting and yes i miss the odst days reach has lost its feel for survival, I’m sure 343 sees that and will add a much more improved firefight with the title update along with generator defense :slight_smile:
>
> Oh,God it was so much fun! I mean it’s in the Firefight game lobby and its just sitting there looking pathethic for itself.
>
>
>
> You know,I propose we build the ultimate FireFight mode for Reach. We should back the movement speed from Halo 3,as it was in ODST aswell. Allow armour abilities aswell,but only the support types-Hologram,Active Camoflauge,Dropsheild.
>
> We build up from the classic ODST style firefight.Add the Tough Luck,Catch,and Black Eye skulls for each round. And have the Famine,Tilt,and Mythic skulls for the sets. Make it a maximum of four sets on Heroic difficulty
>
> For weapons,set the default as AR (To act as SMG) and Pistol to ensure the classic feel. Have the waves of Brutes,Jackals,Hunters and Finally Cheiftans. I think we should also bring in the Jetpack Elites to compensate for the lack of Drones in FireFight,since their both lightly armoured and die very quickly. I’m gonna leave this up to the community,but I wanna see what you guys can come up with. I’ll edit my OP so I can take suggestions for the Ultimate Classic FireFight mode for Reach.

I love the way you think haha they need to add a classic firefight playlist with these settings and unlimited waves but if there’s 4 sets instead I’ll still be very happy

> > The biggest problem when trying to re-create ODST-style FF in Reach are the ammo caches since they have an unlimited supply. So even if you started out with “only” the AR and magnum, which both are pretty decent weapons in FF, you would never run out of ammo.
> >
> > On the other hand, not having any ammo caches would also suck, in my opinion. The ability to headshot opponents to dispose of them quickly is pretty vital on higher difficulty settings, and with only 24 rounds total (8 in weapon, 16 extra rounds)…
> >
> > I don’t know, but that seems terribly low compared to ODST. And the only other headshot-capable weapon you’ll get your hands on is the needle rifle which is used almost exclusively by Jackals and Skirmishers unless you throw Elite Heritcs in and hope they spawn with DMRs and magnums.
> >
> > And the moment Elite Heretics drop the DMR and you have ammo caches, it becomes a tad too easy again since you now have unlimited ammo for that rifle.
>
> Well,obviously I’m not going to implement the weapon caches. I don’t like the fact that we can only turn them off or on,it doesn’t seem fair that we can’t give them a ‘Limited clip’ sort of thing for Pistol and AR.
>
> As for headshot weapons,we could have jackal/Skirmisher support,chances are they would likely have a Needler Rifle the higher up their group is. Perhaps we replace the Pistol with the DMR. That’s an extra 30 rounds with a total of 45. To be honest,I haven’t properly thought out the weapons/AI waves thing yet,and I was looking to here to see what we could try and suggest. I have no problems with ditching AA’s and ammo caches,I can implement the skulls into a 4 set system. But as far as that goes I’m pretty stumped really.

Maybe they could transfer the weapon caches from campaign to firefight in the title update (different weapons and limited ammo) *fingers crossed

ODST Firefight > Reach Firefight

> ODST Firefight > Reach Firefight

Word. I’m making an attempt to bring the feeling of the ODST FF into Reach. Hopefully I will be able to perfect one method capable of re-creating the ODST FireFight.