Firefight + Invasion: Official Thread

Very recently (in the past few minutes, at the time of me writing this, even) I’ve noticed more and more threads going over the ins and outs of BTB and Firefight gametypes. Now I’ve been preaching this dogma forever, but I’m not sure if people have seen it. So allow me to give you the gist of the Invasion + Firefight gametype:

> Player controlled Spartans and NPC UNSC assets vs Player controlled Elites and NPC Covenant assets. It would kind of merge the concepts of shooting players and shooting grunts, both of which are integral to Halo.
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> People talk about how concerned they are for BTB in upcoming Halo titles. They say they want huge 32 or 64 player games on Halo Wars inspired maps, but I don’t see that working. What if, instead, we had a simple 4v4 or 6v6 and tons of AI? Obviously, there would need to be some mechanic for tactically directing AI, so you can have a squad of Marines get your back against the two hunters and a player in a tank. (in fact, such a mechanic would have been useful in…like…every Halo campaign ever) The sandbox would also have to be balanced towards Human vs Covenant, but Reach did a pretty good job of that.
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> Of course, we could have some fun with a gametype that fuses PvP and PvE. Imagine if a third faction of Prometheans, Flood, Brutes, Sentinels, Heretics, Insurrectionists or slightly perturbed Guta’s stormed in? Imagine if, thanks to some weapon or powerup on the map that players are fighting over, these AI would bend themselves to the player’s will? Imagine throwing a battalion of Prometheans against a Scorpion and seeing who comes out on top?

Now there are a few pieces to this idea that need to be fleshed out in order for this to work.

  • AI Squad control mechanics: Long time in coming, don’t you think?? The D-pad sees virtually zero use in Halo combat. It alone could facilitate the required architecture to ensure tactical commands can be issued as quickly and efficiently as possible. The player would be able to grab an AI by pressing UP on the D-pad, thereby adding it to their “Fireteam” a la that useless feature in Reach. Pressing, say, LEFT would send your AI to whatever position you’re staring at. Pressing RIGHT would have them attack whatever enemy your looking at. Pressing DOWN would have them cancel all current commands and follow you. Pressing UP without being in the presence of an AI would allow you to select units individually. That way you could diversify your team with multiple AI with varied gear and preforming unique roles. Imagine controlling a Tank, a Sniper and a squad of Marines with Battle Rifles all with the D-pad. This is a huge part of most tactically based games. AI could even feature symbols above their head, displaying who is currently controlling them and what they’re doing.- Balanced Sandbox: Reach did a really good job of ensuring every weapon and vehicle had a counterpart from the other faction. One that I immediately came up with involved Flying vehicles. I’ll explain why those would be important in a second. The UNSC has instituted 3 major flyable vehicles in Halo games: The Pelican, the Falcon and the Hornet. Consequently, the Covenant has exactly the same number. The Spirit (CE, Reach) the Phantom and the Banshee. The Pelican and the Spirit would both boast incredible armor and transport capacity, but lack in firepower and maneuverability. Once again, I’ll explain why that would be important later. The Falcon and Phantom would function with medium armor, crappy transport capacity, understandable maneuverability but insane raw firepower. The Banshee and Hornet would feature awful armor and transport, meh firepower, but crazy maneuverability.- Objective based Gameplay: Now NPCs and Players fighting together is an idea most people like, I think. But what would they do? It couldn’t work like normal Slayer, due to the disparity in usefulness between AI and players. Maybe NPCs have a select number of respawns and serve fewer points per kill, but I think we could have more fun with this. We could do a capture the flag-esque gametype, or classic control point Invasion, but once again, we could have so much more fun. How?- Player controlled Frigates: You’re welcome. Players and AI would spawn on either a Pillar of Autumn or Amber Clad inspired starship, or a Covenant Battle Cruiser or Assault Carrier (all of which would be nerfed within reason. Enough firepower to blast open a Scorpion once a few minutes.) The idea is that they would be big and hard to kill, but difficult to directly influence the battle below, mostly because they’d be fighting the other team’s frigate. Stay with me here. Over the course of the game, players may have the ability to Spawn on a different portion of the map, but AI would be relegated to the Frigate. This is where the Flying vehicles come into play. Getting AI from the Frigate to the map would be super important. Pelicans and Drop pods would be invaluable. You could have counters set up describing the respawn times of various vehicles and weapons aboard the ship. Basically, it would be the team’s center of operations. But if base play is centered around the Frigates…how does this become an all encompassing gametype dedicated to the marriage of PvP and PvE?- Objective based Gameplay…again: Blow up the Frigate. Well this sounds a lot like SW Battlefront II, doesn’t it? The trick is that the only way really to do this is by utilizing the BTB map below. I’ll explain how to do this later, but it would be pretty different for each map. Suffice it to say that I was thinking of a bit of a tiered approach to scenarios, similar to Invasion. The first two tiers would be about map control and supplanting the other team’s advantages, and the final tier would unleash a killer advantage, weapon, power up or vehicle with enough fire power to crush the frigate above.Post continued later.

To be honest, there’s so much devs can do with the xb1’s power I expect this game to be bigger than we think.

Yeah, Halo needs something fresh to make it shine bright, and not be in the shadow of the other swarm of holiday 2015 blockbusters.

They promised us that Halo 5 will be vast. They better deliver.

I took the liberty of thinking up a few scenarios for this. Now these are all totally up in the air and are only predicated on what I thought would be cool at the time.

MANTLE (the prime example) - Location: Requiem. Three “tiers” or rounds. UNSC and Covenant forces meet above the planet and must control 3 of 4 control points on the planet below. Once one team manages this, the surface opens up and folds out, plunging deeper into the heart of Requiem. Rogue Forerunner AI will indiscriminately attack either team in this second Round. Either team must fight their way to a control room very far out of the way of their Frigate’s influence to activate the final round. This will probably be a much smaller, more orthodox round, based around classic 4 v 4 Halo gameplay, with any AI being so far above they can little more but take potshots or get killed in the cross fire. In lieu of power weapons, players will fight to take control of the Rogue Forerunner AIs to destroy the opposing team’s Frigate. Any team that accomplishes this wins.

DERELICT - Location: Deep Space, near a Flood Infested Covenant Supercarrier, destroyed and set adrift. Probably very similar to the above gametype, except with some zero g gameplay (because why the -Yoink- not), and set inside a Supercarrier. The first round would just be getting inside, the second would be starting her up, and the third would be fighting to the bridge, where the Flood have kind of set up shop.

BASICALLY MANTLE BUT ON DIFFERENT MAPS - Halo Wars has a ripe collection of huge Halo maps to draw inspiration from.

ASYMMETRIC DEFENSE GAMETYPES - Very similar to classic Invasion, I guess. Location would depend on which faction was doing the defending. For the UNSC, it would probably be a colony somewhere, where the Covies would be trying to breach the defenses, shut off the colony’s power and destroy the UNSC command post. For the Covenant, it would probably be some military instillation analyzing Forerunner constructs, and would probably play exactly the same. If either defender held out for long enough, reinforcements would arrive to some serious damage to the offender. The only downside that comes to mind is that, in classic Invasion, matches would be on the longer side, but never too bad. Enough that doing it again on offensive was a real treat. I don’t think the same team could play both Offensive and Defensive in a gametype like this. I can’t help but think that a game of this scale would just completely overwhelm the player and take way too much time to play through once, let alone twice, meaning that, after getting your butt handed to you on defense, you had no stamina to return the favor.

BRUTALITY - Okay, this is pushing it, I think. Location: Doisac. UNSC and Covenant forces meet above an encampment of Brute tribes. AI forces for both sides are limited, so in order to replenish the ranks, players must infiltrate nearby Brute camps, challenge their Chieftans to a duel, win (of course) and take command of the tribe. I…um…this is just a bit of Brute fanboyism here. :smiley:

SMALLER SCALE PVP + PVE - I firmly believe this sort of approach could be used for small scale tactics as well. CTF, Assault or Breakout could see some huge use in this area. Just pare down everything I’ve already mentioned and make it a simple few AI squads per team - and no game breaking super weapons. xD

ANYONE OF THESE IN REVERSE - Imagine, your squad of Spartans must fight their way out of the belly of Requiem, shoot through waves of Forerunner jerks and disenfranchised Elites, and at the end of it all, come in with big@$$ Marines in big@$$ Tanks and roflstomp everything.

Like I said, these are totally up in the air. It’s all just speculation and fancy. But it’s my speculation and fancy. This would take some insane work on the part of the devs, so I’d prefer they work on making Guardians as great as possible (seriously) before taking on a project like this. Basically, I just wrote this up to say that there are alternatives to the 16 v 16 or 32 v 32 approach to massive team gameplay. Also I’m an anti sprinter and I just destroyed all those “You hate innovation” arguments. But that’s a conversation for another time. xD

Seriously, another time.

I don’t know that these ideas will happen in this game, but they’re damn good ideas, I love the idea of commanding a squad of Marines or ODSTs. It just has so much potential. I hope it can be done someday.

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> I don’t know that these ideas will happen in this game, but they’re damn good ideas, I love the idea of commanding a squad of Marines or ODSTs. It just has so much potential. I hope it can be done someday.

Around here, they call me Mr. Potential. :confused:

I call the police right after they do, of course. The freaks.

I think you may have just created a whole new Halo! These ideas are pretty amazing but, I think it would require a second disc to implement them.

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> I think you may have just created a whole new Halo! These ideas are pretty amazing but, I think it would require a second disc to implement them.

Did you say…innovation, my dear friend?

Giggles coyly in the corner

However, there are a few issues with this that are already bugging me, mostly in terms of weapon balance and possible gameplay fatigue. Huge scale like this, without the use of a lot of players, can only work if the AI is really sodding good. Likewise, players have to feel as though they’re in charge of the AI. It’s a bit of a balancing act, really.

This would be great !

I can see the potential on this, so many possibilities ! I’d love to see some sort of infection/slayer variant of this. Example. There are two teams, Flood vs UNSC. The objective would be to kill as many enemy players before the other team. Lets say like 50. After one of the teams reaches 50kills, the team that has least kills has to escape before the winning team catches them, and they have only 1 life. The losing team would get 1+ point per each of losing team members got safe. And the winning team would get 1+ point per killing member of the losing team before they could escape.

This sounds so cool, but it’d take a lot of work. I think you may have just planned the next Halo spin-off!

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> I can see the potential on this, so many possibilities ! I’d love to see some sort of infection/slayer variant of this. Example. There are two teams, Flood vs UNSC. The objective would be to kill as many enemy players before the other team. Lets say like 50. After one of the teams reaches 50kills, the team that has least kills has to escape before the winning team catches them, and they have only 1 life. The losing team would get 1+ point per each of losing team members got safe. And the winning team would get 1+ point per killing member of the losing team before they could escape.

Cool, but where does the infection piece come into play?

I want both Ideas. I believe them when they say this game will be massive.

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> > 2533274848939889;11:
> > I can see the potential on this, so many possibilities ! I’d love to see some sort of infection/slayer variant of this. Example. There are two teams, Flood vs UNSC. The objective would be to kill as many enemy players before the other team. Lets say like 50. After one of the teams reaches 50kills, the team that has least kills has to escape before the winning team catches them, and they have only 1 life. The losing team would get 1+ point per each of losing team members got safe. And the winning team would get 1+ point per killing member of the losing team before they could escape.
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> Cool, but where does the infection piece come into play?

Ah I forgot to add, during the ending phase I guess :smiley:

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> > 2535421619942348;13:
> > > 2533274848939889;11:
> > > I can see the potential on this, so many possibilities ! I’d love to see some sort of infection/slayer variant of this. Example. There are two teams, Flood vs UNSC. The objective would be to kill as many enemy players before the other team. Lets say like 50. After one of the teams reaches 50kills, the team that has least kills has to escape before the winning team catches them, and they have only 1 life. The losing team would get 1+ point per each of losing team members got safe. And the winning team would get 1+ point per killing member of the losing team before they could escape.
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> >
> > Cool, but where does the infection piece come into play?
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> Ah I forgot to add, during the ending phase I guess :smiley:

Ah, cool. A bit like Titanfall’s epilogues, then?

invasion needs a comeback