FEEDBACK: War Games Consolidation

- A War Games Consolidation Proposal -

  1. Big Team Battle: A 8v8 slayer and non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 7v7 or even 6v6; contains medium to heavy vehicle use as well as infantry only. (iCSR) > Optional replacement big team playlists

Variants:

[/li]- Standard aka Team Slayer or Infinity - Flip back and forth every other lobby.

  • Regicide, SWAT, Dominion or KotH - Rotate them in place of each other for every lobby.
  • CTF or Extraction (2/3 Site) - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  1. CTF: A 5v5 capture the flag based playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 4v4; may include medium to light vehicle use or be infantry only. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • CTF
  • Infinity CTF
  • Neutral Flag
  1. Action Sack: A <mark>5v5</mark> slayer and non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 4v4; infantry only. (iCSR)

Variants: - Flip back and forth between the two groups of variants every other lobby.

  • GROUP 1*
  • Classic Fiesta or Regicide Fiesta - Flip back and forth between the two variants.
  • Mini-Slayer or Snapshot - Flip back and forth between the two variants.
  • Rock n’ Rail or Binary Swords - Flip back and forth between the two variants.
  • GROUP 2*
  • Arena Paintball or Woodsball CTF - Flip back and forth between the two variants.
  • Husky Raid or Clang Of the Hill - Flip back and forth between the two variants.
  • Fiesta-(Low)Ball or Medal Madness - Flip back and forth between the two variants.
  1. Team Objective: A 4v4 non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 3v3; may include light vehicles or be infantry only. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • Extraction (2 Site)
  • Ricochet or Oddball - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  • KotH or Lockdown - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  1. Team Slayer: A 4v4 slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 3v3; may include light vehicles or be infantry only. (tCSR w/ top 200 tracking)

Variants:

  • Standard (Team Slayer)
  • Infinity
  • Legendary BRs
  1. Snipers: A 4v4 slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 3v3; may include mongooses or be infantry only. (iCSR)

Variants:

  • Standard (Human Snipers only)
  • Mags and Snips
  • Shotty Snipers
  1. SWAT: A 4v4 slayer and non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 3v3; infantry only. (iCSR)

Variants:

  • SWAT - Includes DMR + Mag, BR + Mag, LR + BS, or CC + BS start options.
  • SWAT CTF (Lightning Flag) or BoltSWAT Extraction (1 Site) - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  • ShWATgun Oddball or ScatterSWAT KotH - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  1. Grifball: A 4v4 non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 3v3; infantry only. The Pro, Dash, and AGLA variants continuously rotate in their priority below the fixed Standard offering. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • Standard (fixed as the top priority variant – offered in every lobby)
  • Pro
  • Dash
  • AGLA
  1. Throwdown: A 4v4 slayer and non-slayer-based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 3v3; infantry only. The CTF, Extraction, & Ricochet variants continuously rotate in their priority below the fixed slayer variant. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • Slayer v# (fixed as the top priority variant – offered in every lobby)
  • CTF
  • Extraction (1 site)
  • Ricochet
  1. Doubles: A 2v2 slayer and non-slayer based objective playlist; infantry only. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • Standard Slayer (Team Slayer)
  • Legendary BRs (Slayer)
  • Neutral Flag or KotH - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  1. Rumble Pit: A <mark>1v5</mark> slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in matches of 1v4; infantry only. (iCSR)

Variants:

  • Standard Slayer (Team Slayer)
  • Infinity Slayer
  • Regicide
  • Arms Race - Also referred to as the Gun Game; players cycle through a wide array of Halo weapons in a set order by using them to kill opponents.
  1. Flood: A 1v9 infection styled slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in matches of 1v8 or 1v7; infantry only. (iCSR)

Variants:

  • Infected
  • Hivemind
  • Save One Bullet
  • Safe Haven
  1. Race: A 1v7 racing playlist that’ll also lock-in matches of 1v6 or 1v5. (iCSR)

Variants:

  • Standard
  • Collision - A racing variant that basically encourages some head-on collisions. More details later.
  • Countdown - Another racing variant that has players trying to survive as long as they can by passing through checkpoints in order to add time to their race; otherwise, time will run out and their race will end. As the game goes on the time added from making checkpoints becomes less and less making it more and more difficult to extend their play. Would require tweaks to the race game-type to work.
  1. The Rotational Playlists (All DLC required):

-------------------- IDEALLY ----------------------
The decision to combine the Big Team playlists has occurred and I understand the rational behind it so I know it’s not likely to be reversed, but I want to show what I still think is a more ideal offering under a consolidated War Games offering because there’s a distinct separation in game-play desire that should be acknowledged and by dividing that desire into two playlists instead of one players are afforded a much better opportunity to play the types of games they want when they want…

Big Team Slayer: A 8v8 slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 7v7 or even 6v6; may contains medium to heavy vehicle use or be infantry only. (iCSR)

Variants:

[/li]- Standard (Team Slayer)

  • Infinity
  • Regicide
  • SWAT

Big Team Skirmish: A 8v8 non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 7v7 or even 6v6; contains medium to heavy vehicle use. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • CTF
  • Extraction (2 or 3 Site)
  • Dominion
  • KotH

-------------------- ANOTHER IDEA ----------------------
This idea takes into consideration the existence of the Big Team Battle playlist, but refines the offering within it and modifies the existence of the Dominion playlist a bit (+ a new name) by adding Regicide, KotH & Conversion to it; this should present a better opportunity for players to play Regicide and keep all of these game-type/variants out of the rotational offering…

Big Team Battle: A 8v8 slayer and non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 7v7 or even 6v6; contains medium to heavy vehicle use. (iCSR)

Variants:

  • Standard aka Team Slayer and Infinity - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  • CTF
  • Extraction (2 or 3 Site)

Squad Battle: A 6v6 slayer and non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 5v5; contains medium to light vehicle use or its infantry only. (tCSR)

Variants:

  • Regicide or SWAT - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  • Dominion or Lockdown - Flip back and forth every other lobby.
  • KotH or Conversion - Flip back and forth every other lobby.

-------------------- IMPORTANT NOTES ----------------------

  • Prevent parties from being split up when getting put into games/lobbies and try delaying match starts until an even number of players can be locked-in.

  • No playlist should have more than 4 distinct game-type/variants groups or pairings offered considering the voting system doesn’t include a veto option; the exception would be the Action Sack playlist which is meant to be a collection of many zany game-types so it rotates between 2 groups of 3 that also flip back and forth the game-types within the individual voting slots.

  • Playlists that offer 4 or more distinct game-type/variants groups instead of 3, I recommend not offering a set priority order for the game-type/variants and instead elect to rotate the priority (unless otherwise specified).

  • Also, in regards to the playlists that have 4 or more distinct game-type/variant group offerings I think it’s also prudent to remove the game-type/variant that was selected from the next lobby’s choices (unless otherwise specified); this line of thinking should also go for maps, but apply it to all the playlists under War Games.

  • Nearly every map should have a game-type/variant available for play on it in-relation to what the playlist is offering.
    -------------------- MAPS FOR BIG TEAM GAMES ----------------------
    Ragnarok
    Longbow
    Vortex
    Meltdown
    Ravine (aka Settler & possibly others)
    Exile
    Complex
    Wreckage
    Shatter
    Outcast (add!)
    Daybreak (add!)
    Harvest (add!)
    Perdition (add!)
    Erosion (add!)
    Impact (add!)
    Forge Island (add!)

-------------------- DEAR 343i ----------------------
In regards to the playlist consolidation proposal I laid out in my original post (above) I have to say I’d really like to see a reversal in the decision to consolidate the two distinctly different Big Team playlists even though I know it’s not likely to occur.

It was disappointing to read your announcement of the consolidation because it felt like you never gave the Big Team Skirmish playlist a fair opportunity to flourish. Why didn’t Big Team Skirmish get a 2 and/or 3 site Extraction game-type and why wasn’t Vortex and Meltdown (two obvious on-disk maps that were big) added, plus where were the other bigger DLC maps? Also, considering that the theme of the playlists should of been non-slayer based objectives why was the Regicide game-type/variant used in it? Lastly, if consolidation was of the utmost importance then combining Dominion into the Big Team Skirmish playlist seemed like the most appropriate move considering it was a territorial game-type/variant that had proven itself (to a degree) to fit really well with the bigger team sizes; at least better than KotH did/does. That’s also why I thought it made a lot of sense to have Dominion/Lockdown replace KotH under all the alterations I listed; I mean they’re both non-slayer based territorial objectives, but KotH is better suited to smaller maps and teams IMO. Again, I really didn’t think the two playlists needed to be consolidated as much as they needed to be updated. Big Team Slayer didn’t need much of an update, but I believe it should have been given Regicide as a game-type/variant offering and some additional DLC maps (Outcast, Daybreak, Harvest, and Perdition).

In regards to encouraging people to purchase the Halo 4 GOTY edition and/or any of the map pack I personally think a better decision then placing a DLC requirement onto any of the primary playlists would have been to begin a slow and progressive marketplace price drop on the map packs with constant Dashboard advertising along with introducing a DLC requirement on the soon to be rotational playlists only.

  • A Marketing Plan:* After the GOTY edition has been out for approximately a month start reducing the prices on the map packs to nearly equal the costs of the map packs within the value of the GOTY edition of Halo 4. Then over the following year or so continue to market the map packs with further and further price drops – reducing their cost further every 3 months or so.

The marketing plan along with the introduction of DLC required rotational playlists instead of the game’s bread and butter (aka most popular) playlists and a tweaked consolidation plan should all help provide a more positive carrot-like impact on the consumers without the need to take on as much risk for negative backlash or long-term population harm.

> - A War Games Consolidation Proposal -
>
> 1. Big Team Slayer: A 8v8 slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 7v7 or even 6v6; contains medium to heavy vehicle use. (iCSR)
>
> Variants:
>
> Standard (Team Slayer)
> Infinity
> Regicide
>
> 2. Big Team Skirmish: A 8v8 non-slayer based objective playlist that’ll also lock-in team sizes of 7v7 or even 6v6; contains medium to heavy vehicle use. (tCSR)
>
> Variants:
>
> CTF
> Extraction
> Dominion
> Lockdown

Big Team Battle is doing just fine with the two put together. There is no reason to separate them once again - Big Team Skirmish struggled while it was it’s on playlist, while Big Team Slayer suffered a population cut from before the second playlist was announced.

Fact is, this is how it was done in every previous Halo game. It worked there, it worked successfully and no one (if there were, they were rare) complained that they should be separate. I don’t see why now it needs to be, other than change for the sake of change.

My compliments eLantern for the work you put into this. However, as I have said many times, it is futile to have a reasonable discussion with players that think everything should be like H3 and Reach. 343i will never get out of those shadows as long as they let the Traditionalists dictate policy for the direction of this franchise. It’s quite sad actually.

The game had so much potential to stand on it’s own with Infinity Slayer shining brightly as it’s championing achievement. It now stands in ruin, enjoyed with Big Team Slayer and now Objective based variants, and is slowly being remade into an upgraded H3. It’s what the smallest community of players have been oohing and ahhing about since launch. This isn’t like Reach and this isn’t like Halo 3 and …you get the point.

It doesn’t really matter now. What is done is done and more than likely will not be undone. It is funny to read the responses you get from most everyone rebutting your argument. “It wasn’t that way in Halo 3 or Reach.”. This seems to be the only answer as to why for all of them with nothing else to support their argument other than past practices from a different Game Studio.

You could have made your own mark 343i. Instead your using someone else’s.

I gotta say, OP. What an impressive post. TBH, I like most of them, but I think Action Sack, IMO, should be 5v5. Overall, there some pretty good ideas and set up.

Also, I want to drop this link as well: War Games Feedback
Maybe, if you state your ideas on each specified thread, then perhaps 343 could take it into consideration.

I propose just two hoppers:

  1. Big Team Local People With Good Connections
  2. Infinity Rage Quit

> I gotta say, OP. What an impressive post. TBH, I like most of them, but I think Action Sack, IMO, should be 5v5. Overall, there some pretty good ideas and set up.

Thanks Riot Rojas. By the way, I think you’re right – Action Sack would make for a fun 5v5 playlist – so I’ve updated the consolidation outline to include that change; though, the concern I have with this change is that 343i won’t want to dedicate the time and resources toward restructuring the game to ensure that the game-play is optimal with 10 total players.

> Also, I want to drop this link as well: War Games Feedback
> Maybe, if you state your ideas on each specified thread, then perhaps 343 could take it into consideration.

Yeah, I’ve already posted within the Big Team Battle feedback thread about this consolidation proposal.

> 13. The Rotational Playlists (all DLC required): Maybe make 2 of these available at a time, but with one changing on a weekly basis; meaning each playlist would remain available for 2 weeks before being replaced, but each week would bring about a new playlist.

then i have a question about that point.
why rotational each play list for 2 weeks long.
then its better to make 2 permanent dlc play list with what more game type’s.
then make each 2 weeks a play list for only 1 game type.

the most players play only on the dlc maps so far slayer game type’s.
i like slayer game type then i go to a slayer play list like big team battle or Infinity Slayer play list.
if i not like to play Capture the Flag on a dlc map then i not go to that play list.
and we all know that a Rotational dlc playlist bring more lower players to play it then Infinity Slayer now score’s with it.

> Big Team Battle is doing just fine with the two put together. There is no reason to separate them once again - Big Team Skirmish struggled while it was it’s on playlist, while Big Team Slayer suffered a population cut from before the second playlist was announced.
>
> Fact is, this is how it was done in every previous Halo game. It worked there, it worked successfully and no one (if there were, they were rare) complained that they should be separate. I don’t see why now it needs to be, other than change for the sake of change.

What’s the advantage of having Slayer and Objective variants in the same playlist? There are many players who just want to play just Slayer shown by Big Team Infinity Slayer having the largest population of any playlist before they were combined, and with the frequency that Objective gametypes turn up now, they might as well not be in there.

If there is one thing H4 has done right, it has shown Objective playlists can work. CTF is normally in the top 4 playlists, and Ricochet looks like it will continue to have a good population too. Big Team Skirmish might not have been at CTF levels of population, but was nowhere near empty either.

There are plenty of playlists that should have been cut before Big Team Skirmish. Even though Big Team Infinity Slayer and Big Team Skirmish were both BTB gametypes, they offered completely different experiences that should be separated into different playlists.

To put it another way, going by the logic of combining these two playlists, Infinity Slayer and Team Snipers should also be combined as Team Snipers has a moderately low population, but it’s clear that combining these two is a bad idea, just like combining the two BTB playlists should never have been done.

In my opinion I hated what the consolidation did to BTB now and Legendary Slayer before. To get an CTF game on demand in Big Team Skirmish you would be voting for CTF vs the other options. That was far better than hoping that it is now. Voting for CTF over two Slayer or other gametypes that might be added in this new consolidated playlist. We are losing more diverse gametypes and options because of consolidations.

I like the options the OP put for extra rotational playlists. IMO The minimum total of playlists that are needed are:
Big Team Slayer
Big Team Objective
Infinity Slayer
Infinity Objective
Multi-Team
Ricochet
Team Action Sack
Grifball
SWAT
Team Snipers
Flood
Rumble Pit(needs to be lowered to 1v6max)
Team Throwdown
Add- a DLC playlist(options need to require at least Forge Islands since it was free)
Total = 14 playlists.

Also, consider this… The gametypes used and that are consolidated is proof that more than 13 playlists CAN WORK!

My initial consolidation proposal has been edited/modified some.