Fate of the Spartan III's?

Community Halo Universe
1

There’s 300+ Spartan III’s left, most being Gamma, and I think its a pretty lame thing to say that ALL of them either joined the Spartan IV program or Ferrets. We don’t know if there’s any secret Alpha company III’s left, What happened to Rosenda? And Beta Company could still have headhunters or something out there?

343i shouldn’t have made the IV’s so quickly when the III’s still have so much lore to dig into, I know 343i wanted to make their own mark on the Halo-verse with their own Spartans, but Bungie didn’t dive deep into the Spartan III lore much at all besides Ghost of Onyx and Halo:Reach. And honestly when 343i took the helm they’ve included the III’s more into the Lore, but only in Books. Not even comics or animations

2

Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.

3

^^^^

4

The only reason they would not join the SIV’s is the same reasons Blue team will never join, and the same reason Master Chief will never be promoted. Personally I can’t wait for the universe to move on from Master Chief because the thought of him single handedly stopping the Covenant fleet is just dumb.

5

[deleted]

6

Hand waved into the Spartan 4 program.

7

Jun is the last Alpha Company Spartan III, so Alpha still lives on.

8

> 2533274871929668;1:
> There’s 300+ Spartan III’s left, most being Gamma, and I think its a pretty lame thing to say that ALL of them either joined the Spartan IV program or Ferrets. We don’t know if there’s any secret Alpha company III’s left, What happened to Rosenda? And Beta Company could still have headhunters or something out there?
>
> 343i shouldn’t have made the IV’s so quickly when the III’s still have so much lore to dig into, I know 343i wanted to make their own mark on the Halo-verse with their own Spartans, but Bungie didn’t dive deep into the Spartan III lore much at all besides Ghost of Onyx and Halo:Reach. And honestly when 343i took the helm they’ve included the III’s more into the Lore, but only in Books. Not even comics or animations

Most of them were likely shifted to the S-IV program, yes. I don’t see why that’s so bad - they’re doing exactly what they’d have done as S-IIIs, just with better equipment and access to more resources since they’re no longer “top secret”. Other places Gamma (and possible Beta/Alpha pulls) could still be operating are the Ferrets, Head Hunters, and elite teams such as Noble (though I believe most if not all of the latter were killed on Reach).

MJOLNIR has become commercialized and as such it’s much more accessible/affordable for the UNSC. Bear in mind that Last Light takes place prior to the widespread induction of the S-IV program. It’s likely Ashe, Olivia, Tom, Lucy, and Mark all got upgrades just as Fred, Kelly, and Linda did. There’s no reason NOT to put the Gammas into S-IV. It’d be nice to see 343i put more names/faces to S-IV soldiers, and it would be very, very nice to see them point out that “this S-IV was an ODST. This one was a Gamma. This one was a poor farmer who told the Covenant to get off his lawn and defended it”.

> 2533274829733449;2:
> Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.

This is simply not true. III’s have worse equipment than IV’s ONLY IF we assume they still have their SPI and not the Gen-II MJOLNIR power suits. Which is probably the incorrect assumption. S-IIIs have the potential to be just as good if not better than the IIs, while S-IVs are lesserout-of-armor than IIIs or IIs. If your average joe-schmo ODST can transfer into the Spartan IV branch, there’s absolutely no reason an S-III wouldn’t. They’re superior in nearly every way (except, perhaps, field experience given their young age).

9

Just to clarify on something: all S-IIIs were moved into the Spartan Branch, not directly integrated with the S-IV program.

S-IIs weren’t because navy wanted to keep direct control of their assets.

10

> 2533274864701588;8:
> > 2533274871929668;1:
> > There’s 300+ Spartan III’s left, most being Gamma, and I think its a pretty lame thing to say that ALL of them either joined the Spartan IV program or Ferrets. We don’t know if there’s any secret Alpha company III’s left, What happened to Rosenda? And Beta Company could still have headhunters or something out there?
> >
> > 343i shouldn’t have made the IV’s so quickly when the III’s still have so much lore to dig into, I know 343i wanted to make their own mark on the Halo-verse with their own Spartans, but Bungie didn’t dive deep into the Spartan III lore much at all besides Ghost of Onyx and Halo:Reach. And honestly when 343i took the helm they’ve included the III’s more into the Lore, but only in Books. Not even comics or animations
>
>
> Most of them were likely shifted to the S-IV program, yes. I don’t see why that’s so bad - they’re doing exactly what they’d have done as S-IIIs, just with better equipment and access to more resources since they’re no longer “top secret”. Other places Gamma (and possible Beta/Alpha pulls) could still be operating are the Ferrets, Head Hunters, and elite teams such as Noble (though I believe most if not all of the latter were killed on Reach).
>
> MJOLNIR has become commercialized and as such it’s much more accessible/affordable for the UNSC. Bear in mind that Last Light takes place prior to the widespread induction of the S-IV program. It’s likely Ashe, Olivia, Tom, Lucy, and Mark all got upgrades just as Fred, Kelly, and Linda did. There’s no reason NOT to put the Gammas into S-IV. It’d be nice to see 343i put more names/faces to S-IV soldiers, and it would be very, very nice to see them point out that “this S-IV was an ODST. This one was a Gamma. This one was a poor farmer who told the Covenant to get off his lawn and defended it”.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274829733449;2:
> > Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.
>
>
> This is simply not true. III’s have worse equipment than IV’s ONLY IF we assume they still have their SPI and not the Gen-II MJOLNIR power suits. Which is probably the incorrect assumption. S-IIIs have the potential to be just as good if not better than the IIs, while S-IVs are lesserout-of-armor than IIIs or IIs. If your average joe-schmo ODST can transfer into the Spartan IV branch, there’s absolutely no reason an S-III wouldn’t. They’re superior in nearly every way (except, perhaps, field experience given their young age).

Farmer joe killed 7 hunters with just his John Deer tractor lol

But you’re absolutely right, I want to know about the III’s fate so much but they could be right infront of me in the Spartan IV program

11

> 2533274919463107;7:
> Jun is the last Alpha Company Spartan III, so Alpha still lives on.

There’s another member of Noble team Rosenda A344 That has had ZERO appearance in game or lore, she was never considered KIA to my knowledge so she could still be around

> 2533274829733449;2:
> Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.

Spartan III’s were made to do impossible missions with sheer numbers rather than supreme tech and they did ALOT to help in the human-covenant war, even some insurrectionist groups, and some were so important that they were pulled into groups such as Noble team, Echo, Gauntlet and Red team on Reach. as well as Headhunters. Canonically better than the Spartan II’s and thats without the Cat-II Spartan III’s, Gamma company spartan III’s do extremely well with other member of blue team without MJOLNIR

12

> 2533274871929668;11:
> > 2533274919463107;7:
> > Jun is the last Alpha Company Spartan III, so Alpha still lives on.
>
>
> There’s another member of Noble team Rosenda A344 That has had ZERO appearance in game or lore, she was never considered KIA to my knowledge so she could still be around
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274829733449;2:
> > Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.
>
>
> Spartan III’s were made to do impossible missions with sheer numbers rather than supreme tech and they did ALOT to help in the human-covenant war, even some insurrectionist groups, and some were so important that they were pulled into groups such as Noble team, Echo, Gauntlet and Red team on Reach. as well as Headhunters. Canonically better than the Spartan II’s and thats without the Cat-II Spartan III’s, Gamma company spartan III’s do extremely well with other member of blue team without MJOLNIR

Spartan III’s were made to be expendable, meaning ONI knew they were not likely to survive the impossible missions they performed. You are wrong in saying that canonically III’s are better than II’s. The only mention of this in canon is from Kurt, but some quotes from Ghosts of Onyx prove that he was Biased, and probably wrong.-

"After the SPARTAN-IIIs had left, Kelly said, “Those kids are going to get us killed.
They’re acting like they have something to prove. We could have taken those Sentinels earlier if they fol-lowed the firing order.”

Kurt bristled at her words. Team Saber were his soldiers and every one of their flaws was his fault. His anger cooled as quickly as it had come. She was right."

"“Some of the bioaugmentations are new,” Kurt explained. “The SPARTAN-IIIs’ normal aggression response has been”—he searched for the right word—“enhanced in situations of extreme stress. It gives them incredible reserves of endurance and makes them near impervious to shock.”

“Is that what’s making them twitchy?” Kelly groused.

“No one’s twitchy,” he replied, then fell silent.

Kurt knew he was wrong. Why couldn’t he admit it? Was he defensive because he wanted his Spartans to be everything the older Spartans were? Fred, Kelly, and Linda had decades of field experience. As the SPARTAN-III CO he had to stay objective.

“You’re right,” Kurt said softly. “They are twitchy. And green. What else could they be?”

So perhaps if they had been brought up at the same time as the II’s, the CAT-IIs (certainly not the average SIIIs) would have surpassed the II’s in capabilities, but they were born and trained decades later, so it is highly doubtful the III’s will ever surpass the II’s.

13

> 2535472885929889;12:
> > 2533274871929668;11:
> > > 2533274919463107;7:
> > > Jun is the last Alpha Company Spartan III, so Alpha still lives on.
> >
> >
> > There’s another member of Noble team Rosenda A344 That has had ZERO appearance in game or lore, she was never considered KIA to my knowledge so she could still be around
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274829733449;2:
> > > Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.
> >
> >
> > Spartan III’s were made to do impossible missions with sheer numbers rather than supreme tech and they did ALOT to help in the human-covenant war, even some insurrectionist groups, and some were so important that they were pulled into groups such as Noble team, Echo, Gauntlet and Red team on Reach. as well as Headhunters. Canonically better than the Spartan II’s and thats without the Cat-II Spartan III’s, Gamma company spartan III’s do extremely well with other member of blue team without MJOLNIR
>
>
> Spartan III’s were made to be expendable, meaning ONI knew they were not likely to survive the impossible missions they performed. You are wrong in saying that canonically III’s are better than II’s. The only mention of this in canon is from Kurt, but some quotes from Ghosts of Onyx prove that he was Biased, and probably wrong.-
>
> “After the SPARTAN-IIIs had left, Kelly said, “Those kids are going to get us killed.
> They’re acting like they have something to prove. We could have taken those Sentinels earlier if they fol-lowed the firing order.”
>
> Kurt bristled at her words. Team Saber were his soldiers and every one of their flaws was his fault. His anger cooled as quickly as it had come. She was right.”
>
> "“Some of the bioaugmentations are new,” Kurt explained. “The SPARTAN-IIIs’ normal aggression response has been”—he searched for the right word—“enhanced in situations of extreme stress. It gives them incredible reserves of endurance and makes them near impervious to shock.”
>
> “Is that what’s making them twitchy?” Kelly groused.
>
> “No one’s twitchy,” he replied, then fell silent.
>
> Kurt knew he was wrong. Why couldn’t he admit it? Was he defensive because he wanted his Spartans to be everything the older Spartans were? Fred, Kelly, and Linda had decades of field experience. As the SPARTAN-III CO he had to stay objective.
>
> “You’re right,” Kurt said softly. “They are twitchy. And green. What else could they be?”
>
> So perhaps if they had been brought up at the same time as the II’s, the CAT-IIs (certainly not the average SIIIs) would have surpassed the II’s in capabilities, but they were born and trained decades later, so it is highly doubtful the III’s will ever surpass the II’s.

II’s on more than one occasion showed immaturity and failure to be completely professional post-augmentation. There was no reason for John to take rounds while securing Colonel Watts. Randall got put in his place by an Innie and a washed-out Spartan-II. Team Black had some serious drama going on.

The II’s in Ghosts of Onyx met the Gamma III’s almost immediately after augmentations; their training was by no means complete. Nothing about this suggests II’s were better than III’s fundamentally - the only things the II’s really have going for them are field experience, smaller graduating class = more unit cohesion, and better equipment. Last Light more or less verifies that III’s can operate in the same capacity as II’s - granting that the Gamma’s aren’t off their smoothers.

14

[deleted]

15

> 2533274924007631;14:
> > 2535472885929889;12:
> > > 2533274871929668;11:
> > > > 2533274919463107;7:
> > > > Jun is the last Alpha Company Spartan III, so Alpha still lives on.
> > >
> > >
> > > There’s another member of Noble team Rosenda A344 That has had ZERO appearance in game or lore, she was never considered KIA to my knowledge so she could still be around
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274829733449;2:
> > > > Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.
> > >
> > >
> > > Spartan III’s were made to do impossible missions with sheer numbers rather than supreme tech and they did ALOT to help in the human-covenant war, even some insurrectionist groups, and some were so important that they were pulled into groups such as Noble team, Echo, Gauntlet and Red team on Reach. as well as Headhunters. Canonically better than the Spartan II’s and thats without the Cat-II Spartan III’s, Gamma company spartan III’s do extremely well with other member of blue team without MJOLNIR
> >
> >
> > Spartan III’s were made to be expendable, meaning ONI knew they were not likely to survive the impossible missions they performed. You are wrong in saying that canonically III’s are better than II’s. The only mention of this in canon is from Kurt, but some quotes from Ghosts of Onyx prove that he was Biased, and probably wrong.-
> >
> > “After the SPARTAN-IIIs had left, Kelly said, “Those kids are going to get us killed.
> > They’re acting like they have something to prove. We could have taken those Sentinels earlier if they fol-lowed the firing order.”
> >
> > Kurt bristled at her words. Team Saber were his soldiers and every one of their flaws was his fault. His anger cooled as quickly as it had come. She was right.”
> >
> > "“Some of the bioaugmentations are new,” Kurt explained. “The SPARTAN-IIIs’ normal aggression response has been”—he searched for the right word—“enhanced in situations of extreme stress. It gives them incredible reserves of endurance and makes them near impervious to shock.”
> >
> > “Is that what’s making them twitchy?” Kelly groused.
> >
> > “No one’s twitchy,” he replied, then fell silent.
> >
> > Kurt knew he was wrong. Why couldn’t he admit it? Was he defensive because he wanted his Spartans to be everything the older Spartans were? Fred, Kelly, and Linda had decades of field experience. As the SPARTAN-III CO he had to stay objective.
> >
> > “You’re right,” Kurt said softly. “They are twitchy. And green. What else could they be?”
> >
> > So perhaps if they had been brought up at the same time as the II’s, the CAT-IIs (certainly not the average SIIIs) would have surpassed the II’s in capabilities, but they were born and trained decades later, so it is highly doubtful the III’s will ever surpass the II’s.
>
>
> There actually is canon pointing to the Spartan III’s being better. This quote in particular doesn’t exactly help you either, since its mostly a reference to Gamma’s mutagen.
>
> The average Spartan III’s have a good chance of being on par with the average Spartan II’s if you take into account the Spartan II’s non cut down selection criteria(300, 6 year old children), in relation to the Spartan III children which was 300, 4 to 6 year old children. The III’s were also taught experience gained by Kurt and the other Spartan II’s, so knowledge wise they don’t really have an issue their. Especially if you take into account that the Spartan III’s training was also better than the Spartan II’s training as well. Cat 2 Spartan III’s are objectively what set them higher than Spartan II’s, with all things stated above considered.

no, the point of my comments was to state that Kurt’s opinions are clearly biased towards the III’s, so his saying that III’s were the finest is not canon evidence that they were… so much so that he had a very hard time admitting that they botched a takedown mission on Onyx, which they clearly had. That was two separate quotes, by the way, the first one was directly a reference to the fact that the III’s detonated a Lotus mine too early, and they missed their chance to take down 2 onyx attack sentinels as a result.
The second quote was used strictly to show that even Kurt acknowledged that the experience the II’s had over the III’s could not be trumped by the tougher training the III’s had. I’m not talking about selection criteria, there is evidence both ways that it has a bearing on the final product that is the Spartan supersoldier. Also, Kurt was taken from the line of duty in 2531, so he only ever had 6 years of active duty before he started working on Project Chrysanthemum, so his experience was not even close to the equivalent of any other Spartan II in 2552- he had 21 years less of it to be precise. I fully acknowledge that the Cat-IIs are in all likelihood every bit as good as good as Spartan II’s, they would perhaps even be the best of the II’s if they were a part of that class. But there is literally no canon evidence that run of the mill III’s were as good as II’s. A lot of people like bringing up the fact that they kept up with II’s on Onyx, but that is absolutely no evidence… They were fighting as a team. so obviously they either had to keep up or die. Kurt stated before the Spartan III project began that they would be nothing like the II’s he grew up with just based on the temperament of the children, and he says it in a negative fashion, and here he clearly states that their superior training could not put them on par with Blue team.

16

> 2533274864701588;13:
> > 2535472885929889;12:
> > > 2533274871929668;11:
> > > > 2533274919463107;7:
> > > > Jun is the last Alpha Company Spartan III, so Alpha still lives on.
> > >
> > >
> > > There’s another member of Noble team Rosenda A344 That has had ZERO appearance in game or lore, she was never considered KIA to my knowledge so she could still be around
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274829733449;2:
> > > > Spartan-III’s were made to die, IV’s were made to live. 343i is trying to create plot development in characters instead of just killing them off quickly like in Reach. Spartan-III’s are also worse than IV’s so there’s not much of a reason for them to not transfer into the Spartan Branch.
> > >
> > >
> > > Spartan III’s were made to do impossible missions with sheer numbers rather than supreme tech and they did ALOT to help in the human-covenant war, even some insurrectionist groups, and some were so important that they were pulled into groups such as Noble team, Echo, Gauntlet and Red team on Reach. as well as Headhunters. Canonically better than the Spartan II’s and thats without the Cat-II Spartan III’s, Gamma company spartan III’s do extremely well with other member of blue team without MJOLNIR
> >
> >
> > Spartan III’s were made to be expendable, meaning ONI knew they were not likely to survive the impossible missions they performed. You are wrong in saying that canonically III’s are better than II’s. The only mention of this in canon is from Kurt, but some quotes from Ghosts of Onyx prove that he was Biased, and probably wrong.-
> >
> > “After the SPARTAN-IIIs had left, Kelly said, “Those kids are going to get us killed.
> > They’re acting like they have something to prove. We could have taken those Sentinels earlier if they fol-lowed the firing order.”
> >
> > Kurt bristled at her words. Team Saber were his soldiers and every one of their flaws was his fault. His anger cooled as quickly as it had come. She was right.”
> >
> > "“Some of the bioaugmentations are new,” Kurt explained. “The SPARTAN-IIIs’ normal aggression response has been”—he searched for the right word—“enhanced in situations of extreme stress. It gives them incredible reserves of endurance and makes them near impervious to shock.”
> >
> > “Is that what’s making them twitchy?” Kelly groused.
> >
> > “No one’s twitchy,” he replied, then fell silent.
> >
> > Kurt knew he was wrong. Why couldn’t he admit it? Was he defensive because he wanted his Spartans to be everything the older Spartans were? Fred, Kelly, and Linda had decades of field experience. As the SPARTAN-III CO he had to stay objective.
> >
> > “You’re right,” Kurt said softly. “They are twitchy. And green. What else could they be?”
> >
> > So perhaps if they had been brought up at the same time as the II’s, the CAT-IIs (certainly not the average SIIIs) would have surpassed the II’s in capabilities, but they were born and trained decades later, so it is highly doubtful the III’s will ever surpass the II’s.
>
>
> II’s on more than one occasion showed immaturity and failure to be completely professional post-augmentation. There was no reason for John to take rounds while securing Colonel Watts. Randall got put in his place by an Innie and a washed-out Spartan-II. Team Black had some serious drama going on.
>
> The II’s in Ghosts of Onyx met the Gamma III’s almost immediately after augmentations; their training was by no means complete. Nothing about this suggests II’s were better than III’s fundamentally - the only things the II’s really have going for them are field experience, smaller graduating class = more unit cohesion, and better equipment. Last Light more or less verifies that III’s can operate in the same capacity as II’s - granting that the Gamma’s aren’t off their smoothers.

Kurt states before the III program started that the temperament of the children would set them apart from the IIs. He said they would be nothing like the IIs he grew up with. This quote reinforces that point. Nowhere is it stated that any II felt as though they had something to prove, even after augs. whereas the IIIs showed that quite a few times when they first teamed up with the IIs on Onyx. As far as your comment on their training not being over, the training test that was in progress at on onyx before the sentinels appeared was stated to be one of, if not the last training exercise they would go through. Just as the II program training ended very shortly after aug. John getting shot is also hardly relevant, as he wasn’t wearing any sort of protective armor during that mission.

17

The Gammas hold up fairly well with Blue team in Both Ghost of Onyx and Last Light, and Ash even comes up with plans that Kelly thinks are brilliant.

Point is, yes the Spartan III’s were made to be expendable, but they were trained harder than the II’s and it was shown that they could handle their own against the covenant without MJOLNIR, now give them MJOLNIR and they’d be “The finest Spartans ever”.

18

am I the only one here that doesn’t like the Spartan IV?

Spartans II and III were trained since their childhood.
they are the most badass guys ever!
while a Spartan IV looks more like a futuristic version of Captain America…

19

> 2535456155962078;18:
> am I the only one here that doesn’t like the Spartan IV?
>
> Spartans II and III were trained since their childhood.
> they are the most badass guys ever!
> while a Spartan IV looks more like a futuristic version of Captain America…

No, I’m right there with you. Spartan II’s and III’s had to sacrifice a lot to be as good as they were and were limited in number, which made them unique. Spartan IV’s just turn anybody into a super soldier. I mean, look at Vale. She was a some random diplomat who spoke Sangheli, then without any military training or experience whatsoever she is inducted into the Spartan IV program. Tanaka as well had a grand total of 2 years experience in the Army before becoming a Spartan IV. They also don’t really have to sacrifice anything to become so powerful, getting similar upgrades as the Spartan II’s but without the 50% casualty rate. It really just makes becoming a Spartan meaningless because pretty much anyone can do it and there aren’t any real risks involved. Spartan’s used to be figures of legend, now they are a dime a dozen with nothing unique about them.

I might be more open to the Spartan IV’s if it wasn’t for the fact that the Spartan II’s and III’s appear to be being written out of the universe. Black team was killed off randomly, Red and Grey team will probably never make it to the main series, and the Spartan III’s are all being consumed by the IV program. That leaves Blue team as the only remaining Spartan’s not in the IV program, and they are being usurped by Osiris team.

20

> 2533274871929668;17:
> The Gammas hold up fairly well with Blue team in Both Ghost of Onyx and Last Light, and Ash even comes up with plans that Kelly thinks are brilliant.
>
> Point is, yes the Spartan III’s were made to be expendable, but they were trained harder than the II’s and it was shown that they could handle their own against the covenant without MJOLNIR, now give them MJOLNIR and they’d be “The finest Spartans ever”.

As I said, they’d be damn good, but with the exception of the Cat-II’s, they would not be “The finest Spartans ever.”