Fast paced gameplay vs skill (and some ideas)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

The most frustrating thing I find in this game is when I turn a corner ready to take on whoever may be there, only to find a spartan coming at me at full speed. I get a few shots off, but I already know what’s coming to me. Bam! before I know it my shields are fully gone and I have like 1/4 of my hp. At this point any little thing can kill me, and justly so a quick spray of bullets from the enemy AR does the job. Yes I’m talking about getting spartan charged. You can try thrusting away but the distance spartan charge covers is so huge. Even a melee attack wont work most of the time because you just get knocked back. So my point is, why should you be at such a huge disadvantage just because the enemy is sprinting towards you in close quarters situations? I’d prefer a scenario where instead of getting mulled to death upon turning a corner, the next enemy I see has to actually try and kill me.

The problem isn’t just spartan charge, it’s sprint as a whole. If sprint wasn’t in the game, everyone always has their guns out. This is supposed to be an arena shooter, after all. No sprint means you don’t have players running around not prepared for a medium/long range engagement. To clarify, I mean by sprinting you are naturally at a disadvantage because you don’t have your weapon out, so you just take shots without being able to fight back (unless if you’re close enough to spartan charge) and you don’t have to fight back because you can just keep on sprinting to reach cover. If you do fight back, you put yourself at more disadvantage because the enemy already got shots on you before you had your weapon out. And if you sprint to cover, then the enemy is likely to sprint to catch up to you anyway. So what I’m saying, if this is supposed to be an arena shooter, let us get straight to the point without having annoying mechanics that just deprive the game of skill. Sprint makes sense in other games, but not in a twitch shooter.

Sprint might make the game fast paced, but it removes skill from the game. I believe that without sprint, everyone is constantly more aware and prepared. But with sprint, you just got people running all over the place, not as aware. No sprint in the game also means the devs don’t have to account for it when designing maps. Speaking of which, designing maps around clamber just adds an extra unnecessary layer of annoyance to the game. If some part of the map is meant to be reachable, let it be so by just jumping to it. Clamber isn’t too bad, but it is just unnecessary.

Out of all the the spartan abilities I think thruster and stabilize are the only ones that make sense for the game. Thruster helps you quickly close gaps and you can even outplay people with it. Thruster helps you avoid situations where you’d just be sitting duck and it even encourages you to fight back. The problem is that combined with sprint, you can cover long distances instead of small gaps.

My suggestion is get rid of sprint and make up for it by adding an extra charge for thruster. Yes this means you would be able to thruster twice without waiting for a recharge, but there’s a catch. First of, the distance one thruster charge covers would be less than the current distance in halo5 and secondly, you could only recharge thruster charges while you have a full shield. I’d also suggest making shields recharge at a lesser time or at a faster rate (doesn’t this make more sense for making the game fast paced? instead of sprint?). You would have a thruster energy meter that as soon as your shields are full, the energy meter would begin to replenish. One thruster charge would consume half of it. And when the meter is full, if you wish to use both thruster charges you can either just double tap LB (or whatever button you use) or hold it down. So all in all, one thruster charge would cover a smaller distance but both charges covers a longer distance than the current distance thruster has in halo5. Also using stabilize gradually consumes the energy meter. So essentially, the thruster energy meter accounts for any ability that uses thruster.

Also if sprint were to be removed, then there would be an unused button on the controller. This could be used to add something more interesting or simply bring back equipment from halo3 or some of the spartan abilities from halo 4 as map power-ups.

Anyway thanks if you read this, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts about the game (just some because I don’t wanna rant too much) and would like to hear what others think about the game’s state and ideas for how halo6 can be an improvement from halo5.

2

Spartan charge is toilet. You shouldn’t be able to charge while being shot IMO.

3

I personally like sprint. Spartan charge can go away though

4

I find myself only heavily using sprint on objective games, where I want to get somewhere faster. On slayer games I pretty much never use sprint, unless I’ve got a melee weapon. So sometimes I don’t mind sprint, but overall I would probably prefer the game without it. Classic Halo games had reasonably fast paced gameplay without having or needing sprint, and I think a lot of the time sprint just serves to make the game more frustrating, and doesn’t add much improvement to the gameplay. Clambering I don’t mind, and I do like having thrusters to better evade grenades and whatnot. Ground pound I don’t mind either, because I feel like some skill, strategy, and situational awareness is needed to successfully pull it off. Spartan charge I have more mixed feelings about. I’ve hardly ever used it myself, because I’m usually not sprinting. I prefer moving slower to have better situational awareness and better readiness of weapons.

5

If you want to talk about a lack of skill, let’s talk about thrusting. Thrusting behind a corner when you’re about to die is a total cop out. Not sure how you can be against spartan charge when thrusting isn’t any different. Sprinting is actually okay because you sprint at your own risk. In my experience, you are more likely to die and are at a lesser advantage when sprinting.

6

Spartan Charge is one of the most annoying things in Halo 5. As for the ability that enables it, I’m starting to question if sprint is actually good for Halo. People say that it speeds up the game, but take a look at this clip

7

> 2535447940912902;5:
> If you want to talk about a lack of skill, let’s talk about thrusting. Thrusting behind a corner when you’re about to die is a total cop out. Not sure how you can be against spartan charge when thrusting isn’t any different. Sprinting is actually okay because you sprint at your own risk. In my experience, you are more likely to die and are at a lesser advantage when sprinting.

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have someone outplay me by using thruster than dying to something as cheap as spartan charge. Spartan charge alone nearly kills you, it covers the distance of like twice that of an energy sword lunge, while thruster just gives you a quick burst of mobility, I don’t know how you can look at these as the same. Thruster is more versatile, it’s not just for thrusting behind cover. Are you saying you are fine with not having any basic functions at your disposal to avoid dying just because someone else got shots on you first before you see them? Thruster fulfills the purpose of allowing you to escape a bad situation if used properly, and if not for escape, then for a chance at an outplay. This, I think, adds a skill gap to the game. If you are the one forced to use thruster to try and save yourself, you have to use it correctly to make it work, in particular the timing of it is what matters, but it’s also up to you on HOW to use it: for an escape? or attempt an autplay? or maybe even a feint escape? And on the other hand, if you are attempting to get a kill on someone who uses their thruster correctly, then you have to try a little harder for the kill.

8

> 2533274901177511;7:
> > 2535447940912902;5:
> > If you want to talk about a lack of skill, let’s talk about thrusting. Thrusting behind a corner when you’re about to die is a total cop out. Not sure how you can be against spartan charge when thrusting isn’t any different. Sprinting is actually okay because you sprint at your own risk. In my experience, you are more likely to die and are at a lesser advantage when sprinting.
>
> I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have someone outplay me by using thruster than dying to something as cheap as spartan charge. Spartan charge alone nearly kills you, it covers the distance of like twice that of an energy sword lunge, while thruster just gives you a quick burst of mobility, I don’t know how you can look at these as the same. Thruster is more versatile, it’s not just for thrusting behind cover. Are you saying you are fine with not having any basic functions at your disposal to avoid dying just because someone else got shots on you first before you see them? Thruster fulfills the purpose of allowing you to escape a bad situation if used properly, and if not for escape, then for a chance at an outplay. This, I think, adds a skill gap to the game. If you are the one forced to use thruster to try and save yourself, you have to use it correctly to make it work, in particular the timing of it is what matters, but it’s also up to you on HOW to use it: for an escape? or attempt an autplay? or maybe even a feint escape? And on the other hand, if you are attempting to get a kill on someone who uses their thruster correctly, then you have to try a little harder for the kill.

I can look at them as the same because they’re both cop outs. I already explained why thrusting is. OP already explained why spartan charge is. At least in the classic games, the lack of thrusting encouraged you to be more vigilant of encounters. Thrusting just makes it easier to avoid what would’ve been certain death. That isn’t skill, it’s being lazy.

9

> 2533274978553590;6:
> Spartan Charge is one of the most annoying things in Halo 5. As for the ability that enables it, I’m starting to question if sprint is actually good for Halo. People say that it speeds up the game, but take a look at this clip

Well as I tried to say, no sprint = devs don’t have to account for it in map design. I’m pretty sure they scaled the remade maps to account for it. And that being the case, nope it doesn’t speed up the game, unless if you use it. So in other words, you are forced to use it if you want to “speed up” the pace of the game, when in truth, it would be the same without sprint if the maps were designed with no sprint in the game. Think about this, the only way you have a chance at the power weapons/power-up is if you sprint to them, otherwise the enemy will get there first. Or when you spawn and you just want to get to your team asap. Or even when you just want take a ghost before a teammate does (lol). It’s a lot of little things that just force you to use sprint, even if it’s just for a short distance. So when you think about it, just how you can say everyone is on equal footing because everyone has sprint, the same could be said if everyone didn’t have sprint (and maps were designed accordingly). The difference would be that there would be less mindless running around. Essentially sprint is just an unnecessary addition to halo, and imo it removes skill from the game.

10

> 2535447940912902;8:
> > 2533274901177511;7:
> > > 2535447940912902;5:
> > > If you want to talk about a lack of skill, let’s talk about thrusting. Thrusting behind a corner when you’re about to die is a total cop out. Not sure how you can be against spartan charge when thrusting isn’t any different. Sprinting is actually okay because you sprint at your own risk. In my experience, you are more likely to die and are at a lesser advantage when sprinting.
> >
> > I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have someone outplay me by using thruster than dying to something as cheap as spartan charge. Spartan charge alone nearly kills you, it covers the distance of like twice that of an energy sword lunge, while thruster just gives you a quick burst of mobility, I don’t know how you can look at these as the same. Thruster is more versatile, it’s not just for thrusting behind cover. Are you saying you are fine with not having any basic functions at your disposal to avoid dying just because someone else got shots on you first before you see them? Thruster fulfills the purpose of allowing you to escape a bad situation if used properly, and if not for escape, then for a chance at an outplay. This, I think, adds a skill gap to the game. If you are the one forced to use thruster to try and save yourself, you have to use it correctly to make it work, in particular the timing of it is what matters, but it’s also up to you on HOW to use it: for an escape? or attempt an autplay? or maybe even a feint escape? And on the other hand, if you are attempting to get a kill on someone who uses their thruster correctly, then you have to try a little harder for the kill.
>
> I can look at them as the same because they’re both cop outs. I already explained why thrusting is. OP already explained why spartan charge is. At least in the classic games, the lack of thrusting encouraged you to be more vigilant of encounters. Thrusting just makes it easier to avoid what would’ve been certain death. That isn’t skill, it’s being lazy.

Well I’ll be honest my first online halo game was Reach, so I didn’t get to experience the classic’s so called “glory days”, but nevertheless, I got to try them through playing MCC, which wasn’t the best experience, not because the games aren’t good, but because of how broken MCC is. Still though from my albeit rough experience, I can at least say that I don’t see how being constantly vigilant is a good thing (I’m not saying it’s bad, I do prefer the core game-play) but having something like thruster also encourages you to be more daring.

And no, thruster itself doesn’t take skill, it’s more about knowing when/how to use it. I’d say it compliments your skill, rather calling yourself skilled simply because you use it. But you talk about it as if it’s ONLY for escaping death, which isn’t the case.

11

Remove sprint (and with it, its stupid, stupid shoulder charge, of course), thrusters, and the stupid, stupid ground pound from Halo 5 (adjusting the map size accordingly) and I must say that it could be a very good, credible multiplayer. At the moment, it’s just the empty shell of a franchise that we wish could survive the disastrous treatment that 343 gave it, hoping that more comprehensible, insightful, lucid and talented people eventually take over it to bring it back to its past glory. We are hopeful, maybe we’re wrong to be, but that’s what we are anyway. Keep up the fight so we can get the franchise that gave us the greatest multiplayer in video game history (Halo 2 & 3), back on its brilliant track.

And, thank for this, it proves a very important point : Gaming Games Halo GIF by xsociety | Gfycat

12

I don’t think you can ever satisfy everybody in Halo. You like thruster, but hate sprint, groundpound and spartan charge. I personally like sprint, clamber, sliding and using a thruster. But I absolutely HATE spartan charge and groundpound and how cheap -Yoink- it is. But I also hate the ability in Halo to just grab a sword, crouch, become invisible and kill 10 people with it without you’re ever seen! (I was playing slayer yesterday and a guy on the other team got 14 kills with a sword and most of the time he was invisible)

And there are also people that hate all “new” features like sprint, thruster, slide, clambering, spartan charge, ground pound et cetera (like Favyn on youtube).

So whatever 343 does in Halo 6, they will likely piss off one group.

13

The problem isn’t sprint. The problem is with the player that either has no map awareness, isn’t paying attention to their hearing, and/or radar.

Sprinting is a choice. If you choose to sprint, you have to be aware of the benefits and/or consequences, as well as when to do it and when not to.

You say tthat sprinting removes skill from the game, yet your okay with thrusters being in the game. Thrusting is just another in-game mechanic that has pretty much the same benefits and consequences as sprinting. With thrusting you can either live or die, depending on the situation. Let’s just say that you poke your head out when you shouldn’t have, but since you have your thrusters, your able to live, so you don’t get punished for it, allowing you to live when you should of died for your mistake.

If you are able to cover a long range with sprint, itis because of the sprint + THRUST + slide combo.

14

> 2533274978553590;6:
> Spartan Charge is one of the most annoying things in Halo 5. As for the ability that enables it, I’m starting to question if sprint is actually good for Halo. People say that it speeds up the game, but take a look at this clip

Sprinting reallly doesn’t speed up gameplay because you have to constantly drop the animation when engaging in combat. With BMS you could move AND shoot at the same time, with sprint you can’t do both and you’re just exposing yourself to gunshots if you sprint across a map. Your vid is one example of BMS being faster, but just my statement “you have to constantly drop the animation when engaging in combat” is a truth people choose to ignore. That’s also not taking into account maps are made bigger to accommodate for sprint, so you’re not really going faster if maps are being elongated for sprints inclusion.

in short: the thinking that sprint speeds up gameplay is nothing but an illusion. It gives the “feeling” but it realistically is not faster for the gameplay.

15

I think the dedicated sprint thread is around here somewhere, but I agree that spartan charge sucks.

16

> 2727626560040591;15:
> I think the dedicated sprint thread is around here somewhere, but I agree that spartan charge sucks.

Yep!

Let’s use the sprint thread please. Also, please don’t post multiple times in a row. You can multiquote or edit responses into prior posts.

Thanks!