What’s the argument we frequently heard against Spartan Abilities?
“Uh… Doom 2016 went back to classic movement, so Halo should do the same!”
First, Doom 2016 introduced its own clamber and jetpack.
Second, Doom Eternal brought another advanced movement mechanic like thruster pack. But, I don’t hear complaints against that.
I know there were quite few who acted like hypocrites by criticizing new Halo while praising Doom mechanic wise when Doom rather also got into advanced movement. Talk about double standard.
I guess close reading is not one of your strenghts. Nobody mentioned Doom in regards to classic Movement, people just said that Doom is the perfect example why FPS don’t need Sprint to “survive” or experiencing “fast gameplay” / “immersion”
Btw., the same goes for Overwatch.
Both of these Franchises have other things to “compensate” the lack of Sprint. So does Halo with Man Cannons, Teleporters, Vehicles, Physiques, Equipment, Power Ups, Dynamique Map Elements etc.
So, there’s no double standard and people will continue to use these Franchises as an argument. Like I did right now
> 2535433721770439;2:
> Facepalm
>
> I guess close reading is not one of your strenghts. Nobody mentioned Doom in regards to classic Movement, people just said that Doom is the perfect example why FPS don’t need Sprint to “survive” or experiencing “fast gameplay” / “immersion”
> Btw., the same goes for Overwatch.
>
> Both of these Franchises have other things to “compensate” the lack of Sprint. So does Halo with Man Cannons, Teleporters, Vehicles, Physiques, Equipment, Power Ups, Dynamique Map Elements etc.
>
> So, there’s no double standard and people will continue to use these Franchises as an argument. Like I did right now
There are quite vocal fans who call for removing not just sprint but also all other movements, and they actually brought Doom as example!
Overwatch has tons of advanced movement, and Soldier 76 has sprint, so not a good example.
> 2533274798731851;3:
> > 2535433721770439;2:
> > Facepalm
> >
> > I guess close reading is not one of your strenghts. Nobody mentioned Doom in regards to classic Movement, people just said that Doom is the perfect example why FPS don’t need Sprint to “survive” or experiencing “fast gameplay” / “immersion”
> > Btw., the same goes for Overwatch.
> >
> > Both of these Franchises have other things to “compensate” the lack of Sprint. So does Halo with Man Cannons, Teleporters, Vehicles, Physiques, Equipment, Power Ups, Dynamique Map Elements etc.
> >
> > So, there’s no double standard and people will continue to use these Franchises as an argument. Like I did right now
>
> There are quite vocal fans who call for removing not just sprint but also all other movements, and they actually brought Doom as example!
>
> Overwatch has tons of advanced movement, and Soldier 76 has sprint, so not a good example.
Umm, it’s the perfect example, at least in terms of Sprint, so the only thing I can do is to repeat myself.
By the way, yes, Overwatch has one character w. Sprint, but that’s not a big deal - it’s about the principle, since most characters don’t have sprint.
> 2535433721770439;4:
> > 2533274798731851;3:
> > > 2535433721770439;2:
> > > Facepalm
> > >
> > > I guess close reading is not one of your strenghts. Nobody mentioned Doom in regards to classic Movement, people just said that Doom is the perfect example why FPS don’t need Sprint to “survive” or experiencing “fast gameplay” / “immersion”
> > > Btw., the same goes for Overwatch.
> > >
> > > Both of these Franchises have other things to “compensate” the lack of Sprint. So does Halo with Man Cannons, Teleporters, Vehicles, Physiques, Equipment, Power Ups, Dynamique Map Elements etc.
> > >
> > > So, there’s no double standard and people will continue to use these Franchises as an argument. Like I did right now
> >
> > There are quite vocal fans who call for removing not just sprint but also all other movements, and they actually brought Doom as example!
> >
> > Overwatch has tons of advanced movement, and Soldier 76 has sprint, so not a good example.
>
> Umm, it’s the perfect example, at least in terms of Sprint, so the only thing I can do is to repeat myself.
> By the way, yes, Overwatch has one character w. Sprint, but that’s not a big deal - it’s about the principle, since most characters don’t have sprint.
Yet, there are tons of advanced movement: Blink, Teleport, Wall climb, Special Jump, etc… Overwatch is not a good example for the argument.
I am not talking about sprint here. I am talking about those who want all advanced movement gone. I am fine with removing sprint with base speed increase as compensation. But completely going back to classic movement is not way to go. 343i didn’t just add advanced movement just for sake of their own pride or following trend. They did listen to feedback. So they got back to equal start that was previously upset by Reach.
Do you honestly think going back to classic movement without any advanced movement is good idea when not even Doom did that?
> 2533274798731851;5:
> > 2535433721770439;4:
> > > 2533274798731851;3:
> > > > 2535433721770439;2:
> > > > Facepalm
> > > >
> > > > I guess close reading is not one of your strenghts. Nobody mentioned Doom in regards to classic Movement, people just said that Doom is the perfect example why FPS don’t need Sprint to “survive” or experiencing “fast gameplay” / “immersion”
> > > > Btw., the same goes for Overwatch.
> > > >
> > > > Both of these Franchises have other things to “compensate” the lack of Sprint. So does Halo with Man Cannons, Teleporters, Vehicles, Physiques, Equipment, Power Ups, Dynamique Map Elements etc.
> > > >
> > > > So, there’s no double standard and people will continue to use these Franchises as an argument. Like I did right now
> > >
> > > There are quite vocal fans who call for removing not just sprint but also all other movements, and they actually brought Doom as example!
> > >
> > > Overwatch has tons of advanced movement, and Soldier 76 has sprint, so not a good example.
> >
> > Umm, it’s the perfect example, at least in terms of Sprint, so the only thing I can do is to repeat myself.
> > By the way, yes, Overwatch has one character w. Sprint, but that’s not a big deal - it’s about the principle, since most characters don’t have sprint.
>
> Yet, there are tons of advanced movement: Blink, Teleport, Wall climb, Special Jump, etc… Overwatch is not a good example for the argument.
> I am not talking about sprint here. I am talking about those who want all advanced movement gone. I am fine with removing sprint with base speed increase as compensation. But completely going back to classic movement is not way to go. 343i didn’t just add advanced movement just for sake of their own pride or following trend. They did listen to feedback. So they got back to equal start that was previously upset by Reach.
>
> Do you honestly think going back to classic movement without any advanced movement is good idea when not even Doom did that?
And what I’m telling you is that Halo has always had Advanced Movement (since CE), just not in the same form as Doom or Overwatch.
I’ve already mentioned this twice - advanced Movement is not just tied to the Player, Movement is tied into the Map (Dynamique Map Elements Teleporters, Man Cannons), your tools (Equipment, Power Ups, Vehicles) and even to the Physiques to some degree. (w. grenade jumps, rocket launching yourself etc.)
In regards to Player Abilities: I’m fine with everything which doesn’t interrupt with the Run & Gun Gameplay. Which means that I don’t want Sprint & Clamber. I can live with something similiar to thrusters.
> 2535433721770439;6:
> > 2533274798731851;5:
> > > 2535433721770439;4:
> > > > 2533274798731851;3:
> > > > > 2535433721770439;2:
> > > > > Facepalm
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess close reading is not one of your strenghts. Nobody mentioned Doom in regards to classic Movement, people just said that Doom is the perfect example why FPS don’t need Sprint to “survive” or experiencing “fast gameplay” / “immersion”
> > > > > Btw., the same goes for Overwatch.
> > > > >
> > > > > Both of these Franchises have other things to “compensate” the lack of Sprint. So does Halo with Man Cannons, Teleporters, Vehicles, Physiques, Equipment, Power Ups, Dynamique Map Elements etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, there’s no double standard and people will continue to use these Franchises as an argument. Like I did right now
> > > >
> > > > There are quite vocal fans who call for removing not just sprint but also all other movements, and they actually brought Doom as example!
> > > >
> > > > Overwatch has tons of advanced movement, and Soldier 76 has sprint, so not a good example.
> > >
> > > Umm, it’s the perfect example, at least in terms of Sprint, so the only thing I can do is to repeat myself.
> > > By the way, yes, Overwatch has one character w. Sprint, but that’s not a big deal - it’s about the principle, since most characters don’t have sprint.
> >
> > Yet, there are tons of advanced movement: Blink, Teleport, Wall climb, Special Jump, etc… Overwatch is not a good example for the argument.
> > I am not talking about sprint here. I am talking about those who want all advanced movement gone. I am fine with removing sprint with base speed increase as compensation. But completely going back to classic movement is not way to go. 343i didn’t just add advanced movement just for sake of their own pride or following trend. They did listen to feedback. So they got back to equal start that was previously upset by Reach.
> >
> > Do you honestly think going back to classic movement without any advanced movement is good idea when not even Doom did that?
>
> And what I’m telling you is that Halo has always had Advanced Movement (since CE), just not in the same form as Doom or Overwatch.
> I’ve already mentioned in twice, but advanced Movement is not just tied to the Player, Movement is tied into the Map (Dynamique Map Elements Teleporters, Man Cannons), your tools (Equipment, Power Ups, Vehicles) and even to the Physiques to some degree. (w. grenade jumps, rocket launching yourself etc.)
>
> In regards to Player Abilities: I’m fine with everything which doesn’t interrupt with the Run & Gun Gameplay. Which means that I don’t want Sprint & Clamber. I can live with something similiar to thrusters.
When we we talk about advanced movement, we are talking about basic movements given from start. Things you mentioned are not counted as such. They are external factors or tools you have to obtain. I have never seen anyone mentioning those as advanced movement ever!
At least, it’s good to see that we agree on few things.
> 2533274798731851;5:
> But completely going back to classic movement is not way to go.
Could you please elaborate on that?
> 2533274798731851;5:
> 343i didn’t just add advanced movement just for sake of their own pride or following trend. They did listen to feedback. So they got back to equal start that was previously upset by Reach.
I’m rather sure i343 at some point said Sprint was made a player mechanic due to “gamer expectations”. At that point the opposition of sprint was even more fierce than now, or so I recall. What exact feedback did they listen to?
Not to mention, they did make Halo 4, after scrapping a test build which was enjoyed, but felt “too traditional”. Halo 4, the game which not only took Reach’s concept of loadouts, but made custom loadouts based on how long you’ve played, weapon, grenade and AA unlocks, as well as introducing perks.
So the question about their own pride and following trends vs listening and acting according to feedback, I’m not really on that boat.
> 2533274798731851;5:
> Do you honestly think going back to classic movement without any advanced movement is good idea when not even Doom did that?
If you only look at it reduced like that, then perhaps not. But what’s the end goal? Do you think i343 wouldn’t be able to pull it off?
> 2533274795123910;8:
> > 2533274798731851;5:
> > But completely going back to classic movement is not way to go.
>
> Could you please elaborate on that?
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274798731851;5:
> > 343i didn’t just add advanced movement just for sake of their own pride or following trend. They did listen to feedback. So they got back to equal start that was previously upset by Reach.
>
> I’m rather sure i343 at some point said Sprint was made a player mechanic due to “gamer expectations”. At that point the opposition of sprint was even more fierce than now, or so I recall. What exact feedback did they listen to?
> Not to mention, they did make Halo 4, after scrapping a test build which was enjoyed, but felt “too traditional”. Halo 4, the game which not only took Reach’s concept of loadouts, but made custom loadouts based on how long you’ve played, weapon, grenade and AA unlocks, as well as introducing perks.
> So the question about their own pride and following trends vs listening and acting according to feedback, I’m not really on that boat.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274798731851;5:
> > Do you honestly think going back to classic movement without any advanced movement is good idea when not even Doom did that?
>
> If you only look at it reduced like that, then perhaps not. But what’s the end goal? Do you think i343 wouldn’t be able to pull it off?
When I mean by classic, just walking and shooting. Halo 1~3 era.
In Halo 5, they gave back equal start. No load out or separate abilities.
They may be, but it’s risky move. If Doom rather added advanced movement, why would Halo do opposite? It’s still very divided subject within fanbase.
> 2533274798731851;1:
> Against advanced mobility.
>
> What’s the argument we frequently heard against Spartan Abilities?
>
> “Uh… Doom 2016 went back to classic movement, so Halo should do the same!”
>
> First, Doom 2016 introduced its own clamber and jetpack.
>
> Second, Doom Eternal brought another advanced movement mechanic like thruster pack. But, I don’t hear complaints against that.
> I know there were quite few who acted like hypocrites by criticizing new Halo while praising Doom mechanic wise when Doom rather also got into advanced movement. Talk about double standard.
So much of that is wrong. Doom ‘enhanced movements’ were ok in D16, yet the multiplayer got a lot of hate due to the changes while the campaign was just fun and plays nothing like a Halo game.
Not every game needs drastic changes or magically fun, which is why I didn’t like the Brutal Doom mod and yet I enjoyed Doom 16 despite having some similar game design choices. Game design is complicated so forcing changes for the sake of change doesn’t magically make a game better. Things like clamber sort of worked in H5 while jet-packs were more annoying to fight against in both Halo, Doom.
Calling people hypocrites for liking games having different overall designs makes no sense. It’s a bit ridiculous to expect all games to play the same just because it borrows a few elements.
You’re acting like the entire community thinks the same thing, is a ridiculous assumption to make about the entire gaming community.
If 343i are to make an ‘enhanced’ movement system work then they need to make it enjoyable.
This thread did not need to be made. If you want to discuss the relevance of Doom’s gameplay design to movement mechanics in Halo Infinite use The return of classic movement mechanics?
