I don’t see many talk about Escharum’s speech from the gameplay demo.
Many say it came off as corny, generic, over the top, and essentially empty. As in the villain is just yelling out words with no real meaning or truth behind them. I personally have mixed feelings for the monologue.
But what worries me most is the corniness. Halo campaigns have always been about the human condition, philosophy, transhumanism, politics, war, religion, existentialism. These deep topics don’t have room for corniness. Especially not for a story that could change lives (which I hope Infinite aims to accomplish).
> 2533274949216347;1:
> I don’t see many talk about Escharum’s speech from the gameplay demo.
>
> Many say it came off as corny, generic, over the top, and essentially empty. As in the villain is just yelling out words with no real meaning or truth behind them. I personally have mixed feelings for the monologue.
>
> But what worries me most is the corniness. Halo campaigns have always been about the human condition, philosophy, transhumanism, politics, war, religion, existentialism. These deep topics don’t have room for corniness. Especially not for a story that could change lives (which I hope Infinite aims to accomplish).
I don’t agree at all. I see it as an excellent introduction to the character (for many). It sets Escharum up as a threat who is hunting Chief. It’s equivalent to the Atriox introduction in HW2.
I’ve long been a proponent that the Banished’s greatest weakness is Atriox’s lieutenants. Escharum obviously has a job to focus on on Zeta Halo, but he’s abandoning it to goad Chief. Maybe it’s a strategy on his part to try and distract Chief? Sure, if he succeeds he’ll be a legend within the Banished, but fail and he could disrupt all the work of the Banished on Zeta Halo.
Escharum has seen what Chief - especially with back up - can do (in Shadows of Reach).
> 2533274949216347;1:
> I don’t see many talk about Escharum’s speech from the gameplay demo.
>
> Many say it came off as corny, generic, over the top, and essentially empty. As in the villain is just yelling out words with no real meaning or truth behind them. I personally have mixed feelings for the monologue.
>
> But what worries me most is the corniness. Halo campaigns have always been about the human condition, philosophy, transhumanism, politics, war, religion, existentialism. These deep topics don’t have room for corniness. Especially not for a story that could change lives (which I hope Infinite aims to accomplish).
It was 1000% corny as -Yoink-.
Literally the worst dialogue in any halo ever.
I really hope the writers can do better than that
I loved it, didn’t think it was corny. Thought it showed off his personality really well, he wants a fight.
literally all halos were Corny as hell. Truths opening speech in 3 anyone? Its just military corn and exaggeration. Its on par for Halo and I am for it
It was maybe a little corny, but what do you expect from a brute? i think it showed off his character well
> 2533274840624875;5:
> literally all halos were Corny as hell. Truths opening speech in 3 anyone? Its just military corn and exaggeration. Its on par for Halo and I am for it
Truth’s address in Halo 3 is a very good parallel but he had the advantage of already being ‘the bad guy’.
I also very much disagree that it was corny. Truth was always theatrical - he’s a politician.
I don’t think it was corny.
Let me put it this way, if you were super talented as a fighter and commander and you had no real challenge / rival and suddenly a legendary fighter (Master Chief) appears would you not be excited for a proper challenge? I think MC ESCHARUM’S corniness is just his Brute level of excrement at the prospect of fighting a legend.
I mean he’s going to find out the hard way that Chief ain’t no layabout lol.
I dislike the use of the term “corny”. It’s too vague and doesn’t say much about what’s actually wrong with the writing. From how I’ve heard others use the term, “corny” usually means that either something is simply not written well (poor dialogue structure, poor choice of words, overused tropes and sayings, even VA performance can play a part) OR you simply dislike the artistic direction that the writers chose.
Halo has always been a bit on the nose when it comes to its artistic direction. The slight over exaggeration of certain tropes and themes is what gives it its recognizable charm and comic book-like quality. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, either you like it or you don’t.
When it comes to what we can gleam from the tidbits of dialogue and writing we’ve seen so far in Infinite, I’d say 343i’s current writers did a decent job of emulating Bungie’s principles. The interactions between the pilot and Chief are instantly gripping because of the sheer contrast of personality between the two characters - this is a good thing, as a writer, you want that.
When it comes to Escharum’s speech in the demo specifically, I would personally say that it was a bit too exposition-heavy, sort of violating the “show don’t tell” principle in some ways. This translated into a couple other unfortunate side effects, which are that the speech felt like it dragged for too long as well as there being no logical reason for why Escharum would simply stand there and lecture us about what the plot is - it did not feel particularly natural, hence why it ended up feeling forced.
That said, the characterization side of things are pretty good as far as I’m concerned, and Escharum’s motives are interesting. I would say that the failure of this speech in particular is mostly because of the exposition issue. My theory as to why the speech is like this is because it was for the sake of the demo, and the devs wanted to get us up to speed on the plot. It’s possible that some aspects of it will be cut down or changed in the final version of the game OR the exposition may end up making more sense within the context of the story. Who knows.
Of course, we are lacking context of this speech, assuming it’s in the final game.
I honestly believe that we won’t get that cutscene as it was shown. I think the AA gun mission will just be you turning them off, then when you return, you find that the pilot has left to find slip space drives and you get that defeated shot of of him.
We have two variations, one from the demo and the other from the gameplay trailer, so it might be changed.
I believe this scene will be at the end of the game for three reasons:
- the both variations seem to imply that Chief is actually present, physically, with Escharum.
- Escharum says this is his last fight, which is kind of odd to say in the demo, at this point in the game. I believe this has to be at the end where Escharum is in the position where he knows he’s going to die.
- The background seems to imply his present environment is falling apart, there are flickering lights and vapors sprinkled around.
> 2533275032862638;10:
> Of course, we are lacking context of this speech, assuming it’s in the final game.
>
> I honestly believe that we won’t get that cutscene as it was shown. I think the AA gun mission will just be you turning them off, then when you return, you find that the pilot has left to find slip space drives and you get that defeated shot of of him.
>
> We have two variations, one from the demo and the other from the gameplay trailer, so it might be changed.
>
> I believe this scene will be at the end of the game for three reasons:
>
> 1. the both variations seem to imply that Chief is actually present, physically, with Escharum.
> 2. Escharum says this is his last fight, which is kind of odd to say in the demo, at this point in the game. I believe this has to be at the end where Escharum is in the position where he knows he’s going to die.
> 3. The background seems to imply his present environment is falling apart, there are flickering lights and vapors sprinkled around.
Bro the trailer speech was much better now that i checked it out again after reading your post😮There was no grunting from him also,which was annoying in the demo.
Halo has no corniness. Hmm…
So, if I were to ask where I should direct the troops, would you dramatically say “To war.”
Halo has always had a sense of humor, and at times, 90s action movie energy to it. With all due respect, your posturing and pseudo-intellectualism isn’t a good look. And pretending that Halo is this grim-dark acute commentary on the state of the human psyche is perhaps some of the most pretentious drivel I’ve ever read. This is my favorite game franchise, but I’m not going to pretend that the same game that features fart jokes, absurdist humor, a dude with a literal skull carved onto his visor, and a naked blue lady is something that needs to be taken 100% serious at all times. It’s a great story. My favorite overall. But the humor, the charm, the characters (some of which are very over the top) all add to that. He’s a Brute. Expecting eloquence and philosophical depth from him, is like expecting the pinnacle of eloquence and manners from a Viking. It’s part of his character to be loud, boisterous, and have all the subtlety of a nuclear explosion. If you want him to cite you some Nietzschean dialogue about how there is no true objectivism, and that morality is a state of thought, you don’t understand this universe very well.
> 2533274949216347;1:
> I don’t see many talk about Escharum’s speech from the gameplay demo.
>
> Many say it came off as corny, generic, over the top, and essentially empty. As in the villain is just yelling out words with no real meaning or truth behind them. I personally have mixed feelings for the monologue.
>
> But what worries me most is the corniness. Halo campaigns have always been about the human condition, philosophy, transhumanism, politics, war, religion, existentialism. These deep topics don’t have room for corniness. Especially not for a story that could change lives (which I hope Infinite aims to accomplish).
The 1 minute trailer’s speech is a lot better,check it out!
> 2533274951753761;13:
> > 2533274949216347;1:
> >
>
> The 1 minute trailer’s speech is a lot better,check it out!
That was definitely a lot better! It was also easier to understand him without all the grunting.
> 2533274874872263;2:
> > 2533274949216347;1:
> >
>
> I don’t agree at all. I see it as an excellent introduction to the character (for many). It sets Escharum up as a threat who is hunting Chief. It’s equivalent to the Atriox introduction in HW2.
>
> I’ve long been a proponent that the Banished’s greatest weakness is Atriox’s lieutenants. Escharum obviously has a job to focus on on Zeta Halo, but he’s abandoning it to goad Chief. Maybe it’s a strategy on his part to try and distract Chief? Sure, if he succeeds he’ll be a legend within the Banished, but fail and he could disrupt all the work of the Banished on Zeta Halo.
>
> Escharum has seen what Chief - especially with back up - can do (in Shadows of Reach).
I hope you’re right! Everything you said does have point!
> 2533274916698000;12:
>
You may have misinterpreted my post. Which is my fault for no stating more clearly.
Having a Brute talk in philosophical terms is not what I mean. And frankly doesn’t make sense in the universe of Halo. You can have characters that are boisterous and loud and that character alone could “embody” a philosophical stance. It’s part of show don’t tell. It’s all about subtlety and not about spoon feeding.
The Last Of Us had many deep philosophical moments but none of those characters cared about the subject. Halo Reach did amazingly well putting the player through a small existential ride. Literally the idea of being kidnapped and having your identity taken away and becoming a tool for the government touches on deep topics.
It’s not about the characters citing Nietzschean. It’s about the world, the lore, the environment, and the actions of characters in which that stimulates deep thoughts and philosophical wonder.
For example: should Halsey be punished for kidnapping children and replacing them with clones despite her work saving mankind??
I just hope Infinite continues that tradition.
> 2535419393377481;9:
> I dislike the use of the term “corny”. It’s too vague and doesn’t say much about what’s actually wrong with the writing. From how I’ve heard others use the term, “corny” usually means that either something is simply not written well (poor dialogue structure, poor choice of words, overused tropes and sayings, even VA performance can play a part) OR you simply dislike the artistic direction that the writers chose.
>
> Halo has always been a bit on the nose when it comes to its artistic direction. The slight over exaggeration of certain tropes and themes is what gives it its recognizable charm and comic book-like quality. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, either you like it or you don’t.
>
> When it comes to what we can gleam from the tidbits of dialogue and writing we’ve seen so far in Infinite, I’d say 343i’s current writers did a decent job of emulating Bungie’s principles. The interactions between the pilot and Chief are instantly gripping because of the sheer contrast of personality between the two characters - this is a good thing, as a writer, you want that.
>
> When it comes to Escharum’s speech in the demo specifically, I would personally say that it was a bit too exposition-heavy, sort of violating the “show don’t tell” principle in some ways. This translated into a couple other unfortunate side effects, which are that the speech felt like it dragged for too long as well as there being no logical reason for why Escharum would simply stand there and lecture us about what the plot is - it did not feel particularly natural, hence why it ended up feeling forced.
>
> That said, the characterization side of things are pretty good as far as I’m concerned, and Escharum’s motives are interesting. I would say that the failure of this speech in particular is mostly because of the exposition issue. My theory as to why the speech is like this is because it was for the sake of the demo, and the devs wanted to get us up to speed on the plot. It’s possible that some aspects of it will be cut down or changed in the final version of the game OR the exposition may end up making more sense within the context of the story. Who knows.
I could not have said it better myself.
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> 2533274951753761;11:
> > 2533275032862638;10:
> > Of course, we are lacking context of this speech, assuming it’s in the final game.
> >
> > I honestly believe that we won’t get that cutscene as it was shown. I think the AA gun mission will just be you turning them off, then when you return, you find that the pilot has left to find slip space drives and you get that defeated shot of of him.
> >
> > We have two variations, one from the demo and the other from the gameplay trailer, so it might be changed.
> >
> > I believe this scene will be at the end of the game for three reasons:
> >
> > 1. the both variations seem to imply that Chief is actually present, physically, with Escharum.
> > 2. Escharum says this is his last fight, which is kind of odd to say in the demo, at this point in the game. I believe this has to be at the end where Escharum is in the position where he knows he’s going to die.
> > 3. The background seems to imply his present environment is falling apart, there are flickering lights and vapors sprinkled around.
>
> Bro the trailer speech was much better now that i checked it out again after reading your post😮There was no grunting from him also,which was annoying in the demo.
a brute grunting is now considered bad? Hes a brute
“The UNSC lost this war months ago. Your people are broken. Scattered. Hunted. Defeated! By me.”
This immediately sets the stage for the conflict. By the time Chief wakes up, he’s already lost. The UNSC, at least on the ring, are broken and scattered. And Escharum is the one responsible. He makes it personal right out of the gate.
“I wish I could tell you it was difficult… but it wasn’t. We are one step ahead, always. The ring is already under our control. Soon, the Auditorium as well. The Harbinger and the Banished share the same goal – we fight together to honour the will of Atriox.
But, without challenge, I grew weary. Lost. Alone.”
This is an interesting perspective from a Brute. These guys are all about battle, about providing themselves to their pack and enemies. Yet here even though he and his forces won he feels defeated. Facing the UNSC wasn’t challenging and without an actual challenge he doesn’t find meaning. It’s actual refreshing to have an antagonist so nakedly honest about themselves.
“But, here you now stand.
This is my last fight, a true test of legends. Our story will outlive us both. Set a fire in your heart, Spartan! Bear your fangs! Fight hard. Die well.”
Escharum is an old Brute, a mentor to Atriox. He’s lived a long time and survived the Covenant and, it would seem, the Created. He knows his days are numbered and he wants to go out in one last fight. Chief provides that. He recognizes Chiefs skill. He ENCOURAGES his foe to fight well, to go all out.
I don’t hear corniness (whatever that’s supposed to mean nowadays) from that speech. I hear a weary warrior given new life. I hear a foe properly recognize the abilities of his foe. I don’t hear a generic villain laughing manically or plotting EVIL!!!