Escape tactics

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Escape tactics has always been used in every Halo game, and why not. If you are losing a battle, and can understand that you are losing a battle you are going to want to fight to stay alive, which means you are going to want to escape the battle at times, “Live to fight another day!”. Playing Halo legendary campaign for example, what do you do the majority or the time, especially playing by yourself you hide from your enemies and wait for your shields to return correct. Whether it be behind your teammates playing coop or just behind a corner where enemies can’t reach you. Because that is how you stay alive and win battles, and the war. Master Chief did not run into battle like Rambo, no he (you) kill some enemies and take cover.

Same concept of multiplayer and battle, but just because your opponent decides to play smart and take cover whether it is behind his teammates or around a corner, just like in campaign, by using sprint or any other method, than that is when it is wrong, because they now have more ways to save themselves from battle, so that they can win the war. That is the exact same tactic that everyone uses, that includes “pro sprint” and “anti sprint players”

So would that not include that Halo 5 guardians is a bit closer to what Halo has always been, including sprint and thruster and clamber, and every way to traverse the environment.

2

I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.

3

Really?

Yes, that is how you survive. That is why people do it. The problem is that all the mechanics that are put in place are promoting running away and they can’t be properly balanced out to make the game more than just people always running away when they don’t get the first shot. Get shot, thrust away. Get shot, sprint away. Get shot, thrust behind cover and start sprinting away to avoid grenades. The spartan abilities shouldn’t be defensive abilities. They should be offensive or at least be more feasible as offensive weapons. That is why I have never really been against Ground Pound. I do think it’s dumb, but it fits the niche nicely because it’s a high risk move. Thrusters and sprint make it too easy to get away. Even the Stabilizers are bad for gameplay. I saw it too many times when people jump up to head peek across the map while stabilizing. Once they get descoped they just fall back behind the cover they were behind. I never saw a true offensive reason to use Stabilizers. They aren’t needed and they get in the way of movement, which is the whole point of Halo… moving while still being able to shoot. I remember them specifically pointing this out in their H4 VidDocs. Moving while being able to have full accuracy, but now all the SAs limit shooting or mobility to use them. It’s idiotic at the number of times 343 contradict themselves with both words they use and the things they implement.

343 is trying to nerf Sprint so it’s not so “game breaking” by tying it to your shields. Them needing to nerf it should be a giant red flag that it doesn’t belong. Soon they are going to have to nerf it to the point where it’s a punishment to use the ability and then it’s just a waste of a mechanic and button. Up the base player speed, then remap the way the other SAs are used. Spartan Charge could be really cool if it weren’t tied to Sprint and instead was just tied directly to your Thrusters. Imagine popping out of a corner with your thrusters, landing a melee, and doing extra damage because you timed your melee and thrust together and landed a huge blow to someone and they can only respond with a regular melee… Things could have been implemented so much better in H5 than they were, but we’re over here still stuck with Sprint because people want things to be the same as other AAA FPS titles so people can transition easily between games instead of putting actual time and effort into becoming better at a game.

4

that avatar sequence though xD
yea sprint encourages to escape from battles, but I would also try to escape as much in h3 as in h4 and it works also there pretty darn good
this ‘people are running away from me’ is really a sad excuse for bad aim

5

> 2533274839151243;3:
> Really?
>
> Yes, that is how you survive. That is why people do it. The problem is that all the mechanics that are put in place are promoting running away and they can’t be properly balanced out to make the game more than just people always running away when they don’t get the first shot. Get shot, thrust away. Get shot, sprint away. Get shot, thrust behind cover and start sprinting away to avoid grenades. The spartan abilities shouldn’t be defensive abilities. They should be offensive or at least be more feasible as offensive weapons. That is why I have never really been against Ground Pound. I do think it’s dumb, but it fits the niche nicely because it’s a high risk move. Thrusters and sprint make it too easy to get away. Even the Stabilizers are bad for gameplay. I saw it too many times when people jump up to head peek across the map while stabilizing. Once they get descoped they just fall back behind the cover they were behind. I never saw a true offensive reason to use Stabilizers. They aren’t needed and they get in the way of movement, which is the whole point of Halo… moving while still being able to shoot. I remember them specifically pointing this out in their H4 VidDocs. Moving while being able to have full accuracy, but now all the SAs limit shooting or mobility to use them. It’s idiotic at the number of times 343 contradict themselves with both words they use and the things they implement.
>
> 343 is trying to nerf Sprint so it’s not so “game breaking” by tying it to your shields. Them needing to nerf it should be a giant red flag that it doesn’t belong. Soon they are going to have to nerf it to the point where it’s a punishment to use the ability and then it’s just a waste of a mechanic and button. Up the base player speed, then remap the way the other SAs are used. Spartan Charge could be really cool if it weren’t tied to Sprint and instead was just tied directly to your Thrusters. Imagine popping out of a corner with your thrusters, landing a melee, and doing extra damage because you timed your melee and thrust together and landed a huge blow to someone and they can only respond with a regular melee… Things could have been implemented so much better in H5 than they were, but we’re over here still stuck with Sprint because people want things to be the same as other AAA FPS titles so people can transition easily between games instead of putting actual time and effort into becoming better at a game.

The abilities can be used offensively as much as defensively with the regard to everything but shooting at all times. The stabilizer example you pointed out is a balance of offense and defense - something real soldiers would do. If everything were high risk/reward like ground pound, most players would not use the abilities at all (so why would it matter including them?).

People cry foul at strafing being less effective, but thrusters work well to keep strafing alive in battle. Clamber, Ground pound, Slide, and thrusters all link together if you chain them appropriately, allowing for offensive mobility as well as defensive retreating. Sprint works better for offensive strikes going into battle (or cutting of choke points/flanking) than running away (the shield recharge reset).

People struggle to find the best uses for these abilities because there is very little explanation in the beta. However, once the game is released people will learn to use things in campaign (almost like a tutorial) and adjust. Experimenting in the beta led me to finding uses in many situations for the abilites (took me a few days to really understand them, let alone tactically use them).

6

> 2535458386964330;5:
> > 2533274839151243;3:
> > Really?
> >
> > Yes, that is how you survive. That is why people do it. The problem is that all the mechanics that are put in place are promoting running away and they can’t be properly balanced out to make the game more than just people always running away when they don’t get the first shot. Get shot, thrust away. Get shot, sprint away. Get shot, thrust behind cover and start sprinting away to avoid grenades. The spartan abilities shouldn’t be defensive abilities. They should be offensive or at least be more feasible as offensive weapons. That is why I have never really been against Ground Pound. I do think it’s dumb, but it fits the niche nicely because it’s a high risk move. Thrusters and sprint make it too easy to get away. Even the Stabilizers are bad for gameplay. I saw it too many times when people jump up to head peek across the map while stabilizing. Once they get descoped they just fall back behind the cover they were behind. I never saw a true offensive reason to use Stabilizers. They aren’t needed and they get in the way of movement, which is the whole point of Halo… moving while still being able to shoot. I remember them specifically pointing this out in their H4 VidDocs. Moving while being able to have full accuracy, but now all the SAs limit shooting or mobility to use them. It’s idiotic at the number of times 343 contradict themselves with both words they use and the things they implement.
> >
> > 343 is trying to nerf Sprint so it’s not so “game breaking” by tying it to your shields. Them needing to nerf it should be a giant red flag that it doesn’t belong. Soon they are going to have to nerf it to the point where it’s a punishment to use the ability and then it’s just a waste of a mechanic and button. Up the base player speed, then remap the way the other SAs are used. Spartan Charge could be really cool if it weren’t tied to Sprint and instead was just tied directly to your Thrusters. Imagine popping out of a corner with your thrusters, landing a melee, and doing extra damage because you timed your melee and thrust together and landed a huge blow to someone and they can only respond with a regular melee… Things could have been implemented so much better in H5 than they were, but we’re over here still stuck with Sprint because people want things to be the same as other AAA FPS titles so people can transition easily between games instead of putting actual time and effort into becoming better at a game.
>
>
> The abilities can be used offensively as much as defensively with the regard to everything but shooting at all times. The stabilizer example you pointed out is a balance of offense and defense - something real soldiers would do. If everything were high risk/reward like ground pound, most players would not use the abilities at all (so why would it matter including them?).
>
> People cry foul at strafing being less effective, but thrusters work well to keep strafing alive in battle. Clamber, Ground pound, Slide, and thrusters all link together if you chain them appropriately, allowing for offensive mobility as well as defensive retreating. Sprint works better for offensive strikes going into battle (or cutting of choke points/flanking) than running away (the shield recharge reset).
>
> People struggle to find the best uses for these abilities because there is very little explanation in the beta. However, once the game is released people will learn to use things in campaign (almost like a tutorial) and adjust. Experimenting in the beta led me to finding uses in many situations for the abilites (took me a few days to really understand them, let alone tactically use them).

Everything but shooting at all times. Everything takes away your ability to shoot your weapon. That is removing your offensive ability. That means you can’t deal any damage to anyone because you have no offensive presence. That is completely against an offensive ability. If you and one other guy are both even in a match and you’re both one shot, you would be a fool to thrust, because you lose your offensive capability and your opponent is going to put one in your face and kill you. That means it is not an offensive ability. You can’t do anything because you literally can’t kill anyone while using the ability.

Not only that, not every ability has to be high risk. Just the ability to shoot WHILE thrusting would be a huge improvement. That would shatter my previous example. But you can’t, which makes people less likely to use it in an offensive way. Sprint is never used in an offensive way. Look at it this way…

In classic Halo. Someone turns to take cover at the edge of your Red Reticule Range, they can’t increase the distance between them and you because they can’t move any faster. Now in “Modern Halo” people sprint, which means that if you don’t want that distance increased between you and your “should be dead” opponent, you have to lower your weapon and stop being offensive to keep him within RRR. It’s a defensive ability above all else because there is no offensive advantage to using it. If you think Sprint is an offensive ability, you are just wrong. It’s not a matter of opinion, because it’s not an opinion. Sprint is not an offensive ability. As it is now, thruster is not an offensive ability. Just because you can move towards an opponent using an ability with an offensive intent doesn’t mean it’s an offensive ability and that is where you are getting your “offensive sprint”.

7

I remember playing reach all the time and thrn going back to h3 and dying all the time because I was used to sprint and evade. I had gotten so used to playing without critically thinking about my movement because sprint and evade were these huge crutches that mitigated my mistakes.

8

> 2533274839151243;6:
> > 2535458386964330;5:
> > > 2533274839151243;3:
> > > Really?
> > >
> > > Yes, that is how you survive. That is why people do it. The problem is that all the mechanics that are put in place are promoting running away and they can’t be properly balanced out to make the game more than just people always running away when they don’t get the first shot. Get shot, thrust away. Get shot, sprint away. Get shot, thrust behind cover and start sprinting away to avoid grenades. The spartan abilities shouldn’t be defensive abilities. They should be offensive or at least be more feasible as offensive weapons. That is why I have never really been against Ground Pound. I do think it’s dumb, but it fits the niche nicely because it’s a high risk move. Thrusters and sprint make it too easy to get away. Even the Stabilizers are bad for gameplay. I saw it too many times when people jump up to head peek across the map while stabilizing. Once they get descoped they just fall back behind the cover they were behind. I never saw a true offensive reason to use Stabilizers. They aren’t needed and they get in the way of movement, which is the whole point of Halo… moving while still being able to shoot. I remember them specifically pointing this out in their H4 VidDocs. Moving while being able to have full accuracy, but now all the SAs limit shooting or mobility to use them. It’s idiotic at the number of times 343 contradict themselves with both words they use and the things they implement.
> > >
> > > 343 is trying to nerf Sprint so it’s not so “game breaking” by tying it to your shields. Them needing to nerf it should be a giant red flag that it doesn’t belong. Soon they are going to have to nerf it to the point where it’s a punishment to use the ability and then it’s just a waste of a mechanic and button. Up the base player speed, then remap the way the other SAs are used. Spartan Charge could be really cool if it weren’t tied to Sprint and instead was just tied directly to your Thrusters. Imagine popping out of a corner with your thrusters, landing a melee, and doing extra damage because you timed your melee and thrust together and landed a huge blow to someone and they can only respond with a regular melee… Things could have been implemented so much better in H5 than they were, but we’re over here still stuck with Sprint because people want things to be the same as other AAA FPS titles so people can transition easily between games instead of putting actual time and effort into becoming better at a game.
> >
> >
> >
> > The abilities can be used offensively as much as defensively with the regard to everything but shooting at all times. The stabilizer example you pointed out is a balance of offense and defense - something real soldiers would do. If everything were high risk/reward like ground pound, most players would not use the abilities at all (so why would it matter including them?).
> >
> > People cry foul at strafing being less effective, but thrusters work well to keep strafing alive in battle. Clamber, Ground pound, Slide, and thrusters all link together if you chain them appropriately, allowing for offensive mobility as well as defensive retreating. Sprint works better for offensive strikes going into battle (or cutting of choke points/flanking) than running away (the shield recharge reset).
> >
> > People struggle to find the best uses for these abilities because there is very little explanation in the beta. However, once the game is released people will learn to use things in campaign (almost like a tutorial) and adjust. Experimenting in the beta led me to finding uses in many situations for the abilites (took me a few days to really understand them, let alone tactically use them).
>
>
> Everything but shooting at all times. Everything takes away your ability to shoot your weapon. That is removing your offensive ability. That means you can’t deal any damage to anyone because you have no offensive presence. That is completely against an offensive ability. If you and one other guy are both even in a match and you’re both one shot, you would be a fool to thrust, because you lose your offensive capability and your opponent is going to put one in your face and kill you. That means it is not an offensive ability. You can’t do anything because you literally can’t kill anyone while using the ability.
>
> Not only that, not every ability has to be high risk. Just the ability to shoot WHILE thrusting would be a huge improvement. That would shatter my previous example. But you can’t, which makes people less likely to use it in an offensive way. Sprint is never used in an offensive way. Look at it this way…
>
> In classic Halo. Someone turns to take cover at the edge of your Red Reticule Range, they can’t increase the distance between them and you because they can’t move any faster. Now in “Modern Halo” people sprint, which means that if you don’t want that distance increased between you and your “should be dead” opponent, you have to lower your weapon and stop being offensive to keep him within RRR. It’s a defensive ability above all else because there is no offensive advantage to using it. If you think Sprint is an offensive ability, you are just wrong. It’s not a matter of opinion, because it’s not an opinion. Sprint is not an offensive ability. As it is now, thruster is not an offensive ability. Just because you can move towards an opponent using an ability with an offensive intent doesn’t mean it’s an offensive ability and that is where you are getting your “offensive sprint”.

Triple is right on the money about that very much.

And as for Doogle, there are many times I have used the new abilities in offensive ways, just because you can’t necessarily shoot all the time doesn’t mean that it isn’t an offensive move. Sometimes a very offensive move is to get into a better position, and or to throw off your opponent from something that wasn’t expected. Hence why covert operations people sneak into or run into certain positions to get the advantage. To set up for a better way of attack, even if you are in the middle of combat.

Not very often did I see thruster being used in the middle of a BR battle, or any sort of battle in the beta, as I’m sure people will start integrating that into their offensive plays during combat. I can’t count how many times my opponent and I were one shot, and I used thruster, in an offensive way, and because I used thruster I would tend to win those last shot battles quiet often. More times I lost, because even though I couldn’t shoot for that split second it threw off my opponents aim cause they were not expecting it. But since I did it I was expecting the move, and I was able to land the next shot, as well as they missed their shot. There is a prime example.

Next as for stabilizers, I used them in a very tactical way, and a very offensive way. To be able to jump of a ledge, especially Red balcony on Eden, to look at high catwalk, and than stabilize, it would give me those few extra seconds to put in about 3 good solid shots into my opponent that they were not expecting to happen. I got a lot of kills off of that maneuver, but yet I don’t think I say one other person make that play. So yeah I used stabilizers in a very offensive way as well, and it got me many of kills because of the angles that I could get that you wouldn’t normally able to get and keep long enough to really weaken or kill your opponents.

Its called be creative with the new tricks that you have in your arsenal of being a Spartan.

9

> 2533274828579555;2:
> I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.

…

The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.

In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).

So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.

In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.

In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.

If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.

This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.

Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.

Now if we add in more players:

1VS3 scenarios.

Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.

10

Here is another look at escape tactics, just look at the Halo 4 global championship match between Igoturpistola vs ACE, it was one of the most iconic matches of Halo of all time, one of the most epic and most intense matches. Pistola, sprinted around to get the advantage in his battles, and so did ACE. And people want to say that escape tactics, including sprint and thruster and anything else adds to the game, just re watch the Global Championship. And yes Halo 4’s sprint wasn’t very well balanced but now it is balanced even more in Halo 5. So Halo 5 feels very much like a good solid Halo game, with even more intense matches than before.

11

> 2533274805230315;9:
> > 2533274828579555;2:
> > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
>
>
> …
>
> The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
>
> In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
>
> So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
>
> In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
>
> In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
>
> If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
>
> This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
>
> Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
>
> Now if we add in more players:
>
> 1VS3 scenarios.
> http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
>
> Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.

Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.

Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.

If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).

12

> 2535458386964330;11:
> > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > …
> >
> > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> >
> > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> >
> > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> >
> > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> >
> > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> >
> > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> >
> > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> >
> > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> >
> > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> >
> > Now if we add in more players:
> >
> > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> >
> > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
>
>
>
> Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
>
> Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
>
> If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).

I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.

How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?

I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.

Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.

In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.

13

> 2533274805230315;12:
> > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > …
> > >
> > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > >
> > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > >
> > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > >
> > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > >
> > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > >
> > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > >
> > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > >
> > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > >
> > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > >
> > > Now if we add in more players:
> > >
> > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > >
> > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> >
> > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> >
> > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
>
>
> I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
>
> How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
>
> I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
>
> Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
>
> In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.

So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.

A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).

14

> 2535458386964330;13:
> > 2533274805230315;12:
> > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > …
> > > >
> > > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > > >
> > > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > > >
> > > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > > >
> > > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > > >
> > > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > > >
> > > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > > >
> > > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > > >
> > > > Now if we add in more players:
> > > >
> > > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > > >
> > > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> > >
> > > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> > >
> > > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
> >
> > How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
> >
> > I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
> >
> > Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
> >
> > In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.
>
>
>
>
> So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.
>
> A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).

I never said that. I said that the skill gap is much lower in Halo 5, killing someone who really is much better than you, is not hard.

I said that unless the skill level is very equal, there will never be a tie because of the skill gap.

If you have someone of rating 2500 play against someone of rating 1600 in chess, the person of rating 1600 will get molested. If you have those two people play tic tac toe, every game will end like tie. Or if you remove all the checkers, except the farmers, who is gonna win then? It’s % of it being a tie will be much higher than if all the checkers were there.

It’s the same in Halo 1-3. An average player will have absolutely no chance in a 1v1 against against a pro player, but may actually get a few kills in Halo 4 and 5.

It was only an anology using tic tac toe. Tic tac toe is a game with very little skill gap, thus all the games are gonna end in a draw. It won’t take a player many games before he understands how to force it into a draw. While in other games, like Halo 1-3 and chess, it will take years before a player is able to force it into a draw.

The games skill gap is defined within the boundaries of the game. How much someone is gonna lose or win is also dependent on this skill gap.

15

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Well I guess Doogle sprinted away from this conversation cause he was losing this battle. I guess everyone does use sprint for escape tactics.

16

> 2533274805230315;14:
> > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > 2533274805230315;12:
> > > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > > > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > …
> > > > >
> > > > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > > > >
> > > > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now if we add in more players:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > > > >
> > > > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> > > >
> > > > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
> > >
> > > How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
> > >
> > > I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
> > >
> > > Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
> > >
> > > In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.
> >
> > A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).
>
>
> I never said that. I said that the skill gap is much lower in Halo 5, killing someone who really is much better than you, is not hard.
>
> I said that unless the skill level is very equal, there will never be a tie because of the skill gap.
>
> If you have someone of rating 2500 play against someone of rating 1600 in chess, the person of rating 1600 will get molested. If you have those two people play tic tac toe, every game will end like tie. Or if you remove all the checkers, except the farmers, who is gonna win then? It’s % of it being a tie will be much higher than if all the checkers were there.
>
> It’s the same in Halo 1-3. An average player will have absolutely no chance in a 1v1 against against a pro player, but may actually get a few kills in Halo 4 and 5.
>
> It was only an anology using tic tac toe. Tic tac toe is a game with very little skill gap, thus all the games are gonna end in a draw.

Yeah those people would also get a few kills in Halo CE, 2 and 3 so you kind of conflicted yourself.

17

> 2533274836143427;16:
> > 2533274805230315;14:
> > > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > > 2533274805230315;12:
> > > > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > > > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > > > > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > > > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > …
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now if we add in more players:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
> > > >
> > > > How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
> > > >
> > > > I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
> > > >
> > > > Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.
> > >
> > > A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I never said that. I said that the skill gap is much lower in Halo 5, killing someone who really is much better than you, is not hard.
> >
> > I said that unless the skill level is very equal, there will never be a tie because of the skill gap.
> >
> > If you have someone of rating 2500 play against someone of rating 1600 in chess, the person of rating 1600 will get molested. If you have those two people play tic tac toe, every game will end like tie. Or if you remove all the checkers, except the farmers, who is gonna win then? It’s % of it being a tie will be much higher than if all the checkers were there.
> >
> > It’s the same in Halo 1-3. An average player will have absolutely no chance in a 1v1 against against a pro player, but may actually get a few kills in Halo 4 and 5.
> >
> > It was only an anology using tic tac toe. Tic tac toe is a game with very little skill gap, thus all the games are gonna end in a draw.
>
>
>
>
> Yeah those people would also get a few kills in Halo CE, 2 and 3 so you kind of conflicted yourself.

I’d like to see you try. Find someone really good to play against. Play them in whatever game (Halo 1-3) they feel that they are best in, put the score to 50, and compare the kills to Halo 4 or Halo 5 when that game releases. Also, remember to switch host, so you need to do 4 games.

I can guarantee that the beginner will get more kills in Halo 4 or Halo 5.

18

> 2533274805230315;17:
> > 2533274836143427;16:
> > > 2533274805230315;14:
> > > > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > > > 2533274805230315;12:
> > > > > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > > > > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > > > > > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > > > > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > …
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now if we add in more players:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
> > > > >
> > > > > I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.
> > > >
> > > > A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I never said that. I said that the skill gap is much lower in Halo 5, killing someone who really is much better than you, is not hard.
> > >
> > > I said that unless the skill level is very equal, there will never be a tie because of the skill gap.
> > >
> > > If you have someone of rating 2500 play against someone of rating 1600 in chess, the person of rating 1600 will get molested. If you have those two people play tic tac toe, every game will end like tie. Or if you remove all the checkers, except the farmers, who is gonna win then? It’s % of it being a tie will be much higher than if all the checkers were there.
> > >
> > > It’s the same in Halo 1-3. An average player will have absolutely no chance in a 1v1 against against a pro player, but may actually get a few kills in Halo 4 and 5.
> > >
> > > It was only an anology using tic tac toe. Tic tac toe is a game with very little skill gap, thus all the games are gonna end in a draw.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah those people would also get a few kills in Halo CE, 2 and 3 so you kind of conflicted yourself.
>
>
> I’d like to see you try. Find someone really good to play against. Play them in whatever game (Halo 1-3) they feel that they are best in, put the score to 50, and compare the kills to Halo 4 or Halo 5 when that game releases. Also, remember to switch host, so you need to do 4 games.
>
> I can guarantee that the beginner will get more kills in Halo 4 or Halo 5.

Two things:
1 - I disagree. My wife has played 3, 4 and 5 online and does a LOT better in 3 than she does in Halo 4 or 5. She finds 4 too complicated, Reach too frustrating, but she enjoyed 5 - even if she was losing. This brings me to my second point:
2 - Even if the skill gap has decreased, this is a good thing. Pro players will always win out over average players, but if the game is still fun for beginners and doesn’t feel like a frustrating, hopeless waste of time (like Reach/4 did), then that can only mean good things for the Halo population.
Players aren’t going to jump into a franchise if they feel there is no hope of scoring a kill against an experienced player. They will get frustrated and quit. H5 has managed to capture what H3 had: the ability to enjoy the game, even if you are losing. The feeling of still having a chance to beat a skilled player, even if it is only an illusion. New players are no longer just cannon fodder for skilled players to get easy kills.

This is a good thing

19

> 2533274805230315;17:
> > 2533274836143427;16:
> > > 2533274805230315;14:
> > > > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > > > 2533274805230315;12:
> > > > > > 2535458386964330;11:
> > > > > > > 2533274805230315;9:
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> > > > > > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > …
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now if we add in more players:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
> > > > >
> > > > > I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.
> > > >
> > > > A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I never said that. I said that the skill gap is much lower in Halo 5, killing someone who really is much better than you, is not hard.
> > >
> > > I said that unless the skill level is very equal, there will never be a tie because of the skill gap.
> > >
> > > If you have someone of rating 2500 play against someone of rating 1600 in chess, the person of rating 1600 will get molested. If you have those two people play tic tac toe, every game will end like tie. Or if you remove all the checkers, except the farmers, who is gonna win then? It’s % of it being a tie will be much higher than if all the checkers were there.
> > >
> > > It’s the same in Halo 1-3. An average player will have absolutely no chance in a 1v1 against against a pro player, but may actually get a few kills in Halo 4 and 5.
> > >
> > > It was only an anology using tic tac toe. Tic tac toe is a game with very little skill gap, thus all the games are gonna end in a draw.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah those people would also get a few kills in Halo CE, 2 and 3 so you kind of conflicted yourself.
>
>
> I’d like to see you try. Find someone really good to play against. Play them in whatever game (Halo 1-3) they feel that they are best in, put the score to 50, and compare the kills to Halo 4 or Halo 5 when that game releases. Also, remember to switch host, so you need to do 4 games.
>
> I can guarantee that the beginner will get more kills in Halo 4 or Halo 5.

I disagree, and know better, I am that guy who has always been at least rank 40 to 45 in every playlist, and get other ranks up to 48 to 50 like team slayer, objective, and MLG playlists.

And when I play against lower skilled players they get about the same in every other game whether its Halo CE, 2, 3, 4 and my guess would be 5 as well since 5 has only been the beta so far. but stats haven’t really changed from one game to the other as well, just more intense games like that Halo Global Championship match between Pistola and ACE that I put a link to on this thread. You can’t argue pro stats either, and their gameplay tactics.

20

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> > > > > > > > 2533274805230315;9:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274828579555;2:
> > > > > > > > > I understand what you are saying but you won’t be getting through to anyone who is against the additions of Halo 5. I personally welcome the additions, as I believe they have not forsaken what makes Halo, Halo. The game’s difficulty has been increased and new things are going to be taken into account. Team-play and strategy are going to be extremely important in this game. I look forward to mastering the learning curve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > …
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The game difficulty has been decreased, and that is why team play is needed at almost any level.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In Halo 1-3 someone who is really good can slaughter a team of 4 players, even average players (Let’s say lvl 30 in Halo 3).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you are telling me that team play isn’t needed? Not yet, because the skill gap is so big.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In a game of only excellent players, team play is very important.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In Halo 5 it’s hard to even outplay 2 average players.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you haven’t gone all the way through all of the ranking system you cannot possible understand the skill level difference in Halo 1-3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is why Halo 5 feels harder as a game, and why Halo 1-3 feels easier.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/1UKIqkb.png
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Halo 5 feels harder because the skill gap is decreased, and thus you need teamwork at almost all levels, while in Halo 1-3, the skill gap is big you can lonewolf if you are good enough, but if the teams are equal you still need team play.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now if we add in more players:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1VS3 scenarios.
> > > > > > > > http://i.imgur.com/EZkuF3I.png
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Even though, there are 3vs1 winning in Halo 1-3 is possible because the skill gap is so much higher. In Halo 5 it feels very hard, but only because the game is easier, and is holding your hand.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just to elaborate here - are you saying lvl 30 players would be considered average? On a scale of 1-50, 20-25 would be the top end, assuming players did not derank or boost higher (which ruins the numbered ranking system overall, but that is another point). If 20 points separate the average players from the “good” players, then the system needs some work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, more on topic - the difficulty of the game is based solely on the players playing. I personally averaged 20 kills per game in the beta, and do the same in older Halo games. However, the matchmaking rarely put me with players of equal skill (and any decent team made quick work of my team mates that were randoms). The higher powered weapons and decreased ttk only served to show that skilled players need to be better than in the past. Every player has a more capable arsenal of movement abilities, so the “good” players need to be “better” overall in order to dominate. But team play is important in team games. This is true for any halo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you had these abilities in previous Halo games, good players would probably show as being even better, due to longer kill times and weaker weapon damage (spartan Lazer in halo 3 would rarely get kills).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t really know the average player level in Halo 3. It could everything between 1-30 if you don’t consider everyone who bought the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How can you say that the difficulty of the game depends solely on the players playing? If I play you in tic tac to, and then in chess afterwards?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can with confidence say that, if you aren’t a complete idiot: All the games in tic tac to, will end as draw, and whoever is the best in chess wins.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tic tac toe is comparable to Halo 5, and Halo 1-3 is comparable to Chess.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo 5 you will only win against idiots alone, and in Halo 1-3 you will only tie if the skill level is very equal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, by that logic, all skilled kills in 5 are ties, and any tie in 1-3 is skill based? That makes no sense. The skill of any game is dependent on the players. Using simple turn based games (like tic tac toe) or complex turn based games (chess) are over simplifying the entire argument. Halo is a real time shooter. Slow or fast, skill is not the only factor, but the opponents you play change the difficulty of the game dramatically.
> > > > >
> > > > > A skillful team in either 5 or the oiginal trilogy (or both, indicating old fans enjoy new things!) will have more difficulty in the game against a like-skilled team than against other weaker players. Mental capacity is irrelevant (many good players may be considered “idiots” just as easily as bad players can be geniuses. Insults do not add to the conversation).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I never said that. I said that the skill gap is much lower in Halo 5, killing someone who really is much better than you, is not hard.
> > > >
> > > > I said that unless the skill level is very equal, there will never be a tie because of the skill gap.
> > > >
> > > > If you have someone of rating 2500 play against someone of rating 1600 in chess, the person of rating 1600 will get molested. If you have those two people play tic tac toe, every game will end like tie. Or if you remove all the checkers, except the farmers, who is gonna win then? It’s % of it being a tie will be much higher than if all the checkers were there.
> > > >
> > > > It’s the same in Halo 1-3. An average player will have absolutely no chance in a 1v1 against against a pro player, but may actually get a few kills in Halo 4 and 5.
> > > >
> > > > It was only an anology using tic tac toe. Tic tac toe is a game with very little skill gap, thus all the games are gonna end in a draw.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah those people would also get a few kills in Halo CE, 2 and 3 so you kind of conflicted yourself.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’d like to see you try. Find someone really good to play against. Play them in whatever game (Halo 1-3) they feel that they are best in, put the score to 50, and compare the kills to Halo 4 or Halo 5 when that game releases. Also, remember to switch host, so you need to do 4 games.
> >
> > I can guarantee that the beginner will get more kills in Halo 4 or Halo 5.
>
>
> Two things:
> 1 - I disagree. My wife has played 3, 4 and 5 online and does a LOT better in 3 than she does in Halo 4 or 5. She finds 4 too complicated, Reach too frustrating, but she enjoyed 5 - even if she was losing. This brings me to my second point:
> 2 - Even if the skill gap has decreased, this is a good thing. Pro players will always win out over average players, but if the game is still fun for beginners and doesn’t feel like a frustrating, hopeless waste of time (like Reach/4 did), then that can only mean good things for the Halo population.
> Players aren’t going to jump into a franchise if they feel there is no hope of scoring a kill against an experienced player. They will get frustrated and quit. H5 has managed to capture what H3 had: the ability to enjoy the game, even if you are losing. The feeling of still having a chance to beat a skilled player, even if it is only an illusion. New players are no longer just cannon fodder for skilled players to get easy kills.
>
> This is a good thing

Beautiful knowledge to share with us. Thanks man!