"Equal" Starts.

I notice a big argument for one of the reasons why Halo 4 isn’t so successful is due to the lack of “equal” starts, yet some players want to claim that Halo is the Chess of FPSs. Excluding the AAs and the Tac/Sup packages(for the sake of keeping the topic focused), I do not believe this is to be true at all. The idea of a custom loadout itself is not bad. It’s the devs’ inability to balance the weapons we were given and their inability to balance loadouts to the game we known today.

First off: Weapon balancing. Anyone who has ever played Halo in the past will know that Bungie’s attempt to balance their online Halos is not perfect. Precision Weapons were always dominant. Dual Wielding was powerful, then was not so great, then dropped. And the PP only had Reach were it was useful as a weapon as well as a tool to take out shields and disable vehicles in MP. Even though Automatic weaponry was mostly poor in combat, BR/DMR starts were available. 343 only went one step further to skip this part by allowing us to pick whatever weapon we want in a limited list, and advertised that as long as we know what we were doing, we’ll be good to go.

That is one big turn off. To me, its not the fact we start differently. IMO, we only stayed the same in the first 5 seconds by immediately dropping our ARs and Pistols for a BR or a nearby power weapon. The real issue was the “ILLUSION” of choice they made by not committing enough effort to ensure one weapon bleeds into another weapons effective range or making one choice significantly better when compared in its same branch.

How many of you picked up a CC only to find out a target has an easier time escaping? Then you picked up a BR and find it was faster to use that? Then picked up a DMR and found it was even easier? Then picked up a LR and noticed how harder it was to line your shots up compared to it? This is punishment for experimenting in multiplayer, and just about puts anyone in a bad spot if they don’t have the game’s “Go-to-Gun”. Skill should come from.learning the gun, not by one guy saying, “Pick X and you’ll always win.”

Next: Power to the Player. Assuming the first scenario never happens, this would still be a big topic. Players are given too much power over the options we can choose. Yes, they kept their promise on not allowing us to spawn with Rockets, Snipers, Shotguns and the others, but it doesn’t matter if we are given an effective equivalent anyway. Rockets: Plasma Pistols/Plasma Grenade combos wrecking vehicle combat and giving players suicide stickies. Snipers: DMRs having a rediculous RRR, auto aim and magnetism causing players to hardly move about the map. No cover and the only tracks you will only see tire tracks. Shotguns: Boltshots being a 1-hit kill weapon on spawn makes navigating small maps without grenades a hard time. Often times requires a player to need HLS just to deal with them, if they can react fast enough and point it.in the right direction. Again, they did promise us we won’t have power weapons to start, but they ended up not going through anyways by giving us too much power.

Excluding the Perks and AAs, Loadouts’ problems stem from these two big issues. Weapon balance is on the way, but it doesn’t fix the power issue. I really see Halo 5 at the latest to fix that. My point is this: illusion of choice via unbalanced weapons and too much power to the player is what really puts loadouts in a negative light. Does it deserve to replace the old? No. But it doesn’t belong in Halo if it just shows how unbalanced the individual player can become by coming back to life. They did fulfilled their promise, and they didn’t at the same time.

I’m a firm believer of pre-set loadouts. Hey it’s still more choice than halo 3 where you play with what you are given. Pre-set loadouts like reach allow games to be regulated but still offer choice between AAs and weapons.

For Halo 5 if they go with load outs the plasma pistol and nades should be out and the weapon sandbox should start out more balanced

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No no no. There’s a reason no one play this -Yoink- game. This is just one of the million reasons. No equal start = no halo

>

There is a huge difference between equal starts and same starts. If you don’t know the difference don’t even bother replying.

Please play nice guys, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

however one must bear in mind that starts with loadouts are in fact equal. every player has access to the same options, and is free to pick whatever he wants. If you are out done by someone else’s loadout, it is due to them picking their gear more wisely with consideration given to the map, playlist, and personal playing style.

I agree with what you said OP. I enjoy custom loadouts, especially since I love to use more rare weapons (ie, the carbine, lightrifle, and stormrifle). I don’t even have a loadout with a DMR anymore, it isn’t any fun to use.

The problem really isn’t the loadouts, it is the imbalance in the weapons and the gameplay ruining elements of the DMR, PP and PG combo, and boltshot. No halo has had balanced weapons before, with the DMR and BR consistently being uncontested kings, and this one might be the first to accomplish some semblance of balance.

Completely equal starts won’t necessarily save halo 4, we have slayer pro now which does just that and I have to say I find it very unenjoyable compared to normal halo 4 (minus ordnance). The only upside to it is the lack of DMR spam and I would gladly trade to have even that back if I could have my motion sensor back too (the majority of players don’t play/like MLG style so why remove the motion sensor, it is a hallmark of MLG play).

The biggest single problem with custom loadouts is the grenade selection. It should always be FRAGS ONLY. Period. The sticky nades run rampant and destroy vehicles with ease; they’re everywhere. They even see use as kamikaze devices: the player will simply run up to you and stick you at EVERY opportunity or use it as a last resort killer each death. Ridiculous.

Next, preset loadouts were better due to the fact that some weapons could limited to the gametype you were playing. Enabling custom loadouts ensures that if it is available in a loadout, it’ll be present on the field in someone’s hands. Now further weapon balancing is necessary. The BR even took a bit of a range increase, as did the carbine, to stand up to the DMR a bit. This leads me to my next point.

Sorry if you enjoy the DMR. I’m not a BR fanatic, but I find it more preferable if the DMR was not placed in the same match as a BR. It just hurts map flow. Like I said before, many weapons had to take new balance changes to compete with loadout counterparts. Its longer range makes players more prone to stay in one spot. The BR with shorter range helped keep players on the move to close distance; it made maps with more open space possible.

Hemorrhage in Reach arguably played inferiorly to older versions due to the DMR. The map can be utilized better with shorter range weapons.

I just feel the DMR can’t work with Halo. The custom loadouts make weapon balance more complicated. I personally feel that the prepatch BOLTSHOT would have been fine if it was a PICKUP ONLY. The good thing about pickups is that weapons can be powerful and shrug off balance just a bit; they are static spawn ins that must be fought for, and you sure become a target when carrying it.

343’s approach to Halo is simply inferior, it just isn’t as constantly engaging and doesn’t hold the same replay value.

I thought duel wielding was pretty balanced. Maybe not so much in halo 2 (duel needlers? Yeah…). But in halo 3 it was much more balanced. Ive heard people mention this “75% damage nerf” for duals, which makes sense, since without it two pistols would become a 3 shot kill. It was also probably to give ar users a chance too. As for the “noob combos”, its no different than picking a power weapon off of the map.

On topic:

As for even starts, I was thinking 343 could make a playlist where players get to vote on the weapon everyone spawns with. For example, when voting for maps you would get three choices like: dmr’s on haven, br’s on ragnorock, or lr’s on solace (of course the carbine could be rotated in, and maybe even automatics too). This would prevent one weapon from dominating other weapons in its niche range and would allow for some great balanced gameplay.

Meh, add in same starts, equal starts or whatever. I just enjoy playing Halo. As long as there are cool weapons for me to use on the map, I don’t care.

Carbine FTW. I had a lot of fun using it in Custom Games and Matchmaking. :smiley:

I also admire Light Rifle users. Quite surprising to find people using that.

When you can create your own starts that only you know about, it is not Halo. Halo is about everyone getting the same spawn stuff or at least knowing what your opponents start with (excluding Fiesta of course). Preset loadouts are the farthest thing you can get from this and still have good Halo gameplay; custom loadouts don’t work unless it’s COD, BF, or any other class-based shooter. Halo is arena-based.

> When you can create your own starts that only you know about, it is not Halo. Halo is about everyone getting the same spawn stuff or at least knowing what your opponents start with (excluding Fiesta of course). Preset loadouts are the farthest thing you can get from this and still have good Halo gameplay; custom loadouts don’t work unless it’s COD, BF, or any other class-based shooter. Halo is arena-based.

I see no reason why we cannot have a social playlist with custom loadouts and a more competitive/ranked playlist that has preset loadouts. Everyone would be happier and I can use my beloved carbine at will every life. I cannot tell you how many halo’s I’ve been waiting to do that (actually I can, it has been 5: 2, 3, Reach, ODST, and now the wait is over with Halo 4)

> > No no no. There’s a reason no one play this Yoink! game. This is just one of the million reasons. No equal start = no halo
>
> There is a huge difference between equal starts and same starts. If you don’t know the difference don’t even bother replying.

so X equals X. But X is not the same as X?..

define equal
Adjective: Being the <mark>same</mark> in quantity, size, degree, or value.
Noun: A person or thing considered to be the <mark>same</mark> as another in status or quality.
Verb: Be the <mark>same</mark> as in number or amount.

equal = same

perhaps you meant that there is a difference between same/equal starts and balanced starts. Through i definitely wouldn’t say it’s a huge difference because the most balanced way to start is to have everyone start as equals

Quake/UT = Chess
CS = Checkers
Halo = The Game of Life
CoD = Candyland

> Carbine FTW. I had a lot of fun using it in Custom Games and Matchmaking. :smiley:
>
> I also admire Light Rifle users. Quite surprising to find people using that.

Welcome to the Brotherhood fellow user.

> Quake/UT = Chess
> CS = Checkers
> Halo = The Game of Life
> CoD = Candyland

This is awesome. hahaha

> > > No no no. There’s a reason no one play this Yoink! game. This is just one of the million reasons. No equal start = no halo
> >
> > There is a huge difference between equal starts and same starts. If you don’t know the difference don’t even bother replying.
>
> so X equals X. But X is not the same as X?..
>
> define equal
> Adjective: Being the <mark>same</mark> in quantity, size, degree, or value.
> Noun: A person or thing considered to be the <mark>same</mark> as another in status or quality.
> Verb: Be the <mark>same</mark> as in number or amount.
>
> equal = same
>
> perhaps you meant that there is a difference between same/equal starts and balanced starts. Through i definitely wouldn’t say it’s a huge difference because the most balanced way to start is to have everyone start as equals

Same= everyone using the same exact thing.

equal= everyone being on an equal ground.

Because everyone has the same access to the same loadout items at any given time everyone is on equal footing.

> When you can create your own starts that only you know about, it is not Halo. Halo is about everyone getting the same spawn stuff or at least knowing what your opponents start with (excluding Fiesta of course). Preset loadouts are the farthest thing you can get from this and still have good Halo gameplay; custom loadouts don’t work unless it’s COD, BF, or any other class-based shooter. Halo is arena-based.

reach= arena shooter with loadout elements.

halo 4= loadout shooter with arena elements.

Halo 4 can be arena based. It has the tools VIA customs.

Also please quit with the “X is what made halo Y is not halo” crap. Halo is halo for different reasons for different people. There is no one diffinitve thing that defines halo. It would have been better for you to say: To me halo multiplayer means same set loadouts.

For someone else halo could be all about story. For me halo is always about your experience. Not many games allow you to craft your own true experience and now further your playstyle on console.