End of RvB and changes to the sandbox are good

Games Halo Infinite
1

I’m sick of seeing people complain about the end of RvB; so many games have systems where enemy and allied players are outlined and clarity is preserved. I’ve always thought it was annoying that in the vast majority of Halo MP matchmaking games I play the colors I picked for myself are not seen by anyone because of forced team colors. Games have been outlining enemies for years; it’s time for Halo to catch up with the crowd.

The other thing that I don’t understand is everyone who argues against the new shotgun, new pistol, and any other new take on classic weapons. It’s strange to hear so many people clamoring for the CE magnum in Infinite. It doesn’t belong in Infinite’s sandbox; Infinite’s sandbox wasn’t designed to accommodate it; the only game it belongs in is CE, since that sandbox was built with the magnum in mind.

People love to complain about 343 changing weapons and other sandbox elements, but Bungie changed things in very significant ways during their tenure. The magnum changed dramatically in every single game they released. There are no two games where the magnum behaves the same. The shotgun changed dramatically in Reach. The Brutes were hugely different in each game they were in, excluding ODST and 3. The BR got removed from ODST and Reach. The list goes on and on. IMO the changes people are making noise about in Infinite are in general less drastic than what Bungie did between their games.

TLDR Infinite looks great. I don’t like seeing all the negativity surrounding these new features. If I wanted to play a game with RvB and classic shotgun and magnum designs and no armor coatings, then I’ll just play MCC. I want Infinite to be new and to move Halo forward, not be stuck in the past.

2

A little bit of skepticism is healthy when examining something that has yet to hit retail my friend, also consider the fact that what you prefer and want won’t always align with others and that’s okay, some people grew up with and have fond memories of certain features in Halo and that’s fine.

The only thing I oppose with Infinite is people taking differing opinions on the future of Halo to the extreme and arguing for the sake of having an argument, it’s okay to disagree.

3

> 2533274947044147;2:
> A little bit of skepticism is healthy when examining something that has yet to hit retail my friend, also consider the fact that what you prefer and want won’t always align with others and that’s okay, some people grew up with and have fond memories of certain features in Halo and that’s fine.
>
> The only thing I oppose with Infinite is people taking differing opinions on the future of Halo to the extreme and arguing for the sake of having an argument, it’s okay to disagree.

I’m all for a bit of skepticism; I’m not planning to buy the game until I’ve seen reviews from reviewers I trust.
I acknowledge that people have a variety of opinions and things they like from the classic titles, but what I was trying to say is this:

  • I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors. - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.That’s my opinion, and it’s obviously debatable. I’m not “arguing for the sake of having an argument”; I feel like the points I brought up are valid and have just as much right to be posted as the many other viewpoints I have seen posted which led me to make this thread in response.
4

People have a right to have their opinion. The problem is when people become dogmatic. New weapons are always welcomed however they need to feel natural in the game. People have seen new weapons introduced that they believe made the game worse instead of better. New weapons should always better the game. If they don’t then don’t add them.

5

> 2533274906921231;3:
> - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.

I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Gears is also essentialy RvB. Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has distinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.

> 2533274906921231;3:
> - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.

You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.

6

> 2533274793006817;5:
> > 2533274906921231;3:
> > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
>
> I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.

RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)

The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.

7

> 2535411347511088;6:
> > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> >
> > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
>
> RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
>
> The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.

Not to mention Titanfall 2 didn’t even have forced team colors. You controlled your color you just had an outline on opponents HUD.

8

> 2533274927740213;7:
> > 2535411347511088;6:
> > > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> > >
> > > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
> >
> > RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
> >
> > The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> > Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.
>
> Not to mention Titanfall 2 didn’t even have forced team colors. You controlled your color you just had an outline on opponents HUD.

Can’t tell if you mixed them up but TF2 is Team Fortress 2, not Titanfall 2. (I use either TF|2 or Tf2 for that, since TF2 has been using that acronym since 2007)

9

I think it is important to realize that Halo Infinite is a whole new game with a whole new sandbox. Old weapons are nice, but we need to give new weapons a chance too. New games should not be bound by older games. I personally am super hyped for everything we have seen from Infinite so far!

10

> 2535411347511088;6:
> > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> >
> > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my friend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
>
> RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
>
> The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.

Overwatch specifically does do that. It’s a hero shooter. You don’t get to customize your character beyond a certain outfit. The hero is 97% of your look. The 3% is the outfit.
And you get to customize your characters more in COD than you do in Overwatch. What are you going on about?

The further this is explained (RvB doesn’t actually mean RvB), the dumber this gets. This is needless nitpicking over something that didn’t need to be changed. I don’t particularly care that it is changed but the sentiment of “gEt wItH tHe tImEs” is asinine and arbitrary.

11

> 2533274793006817;10:
> > 2535411347511088;6:
> > > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> > >
> > > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my friend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
> >
> > RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
> >
> > The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> > Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.
>
> Overwatch specifically does do that. It’s a hero shooter. You don’t get to customize your character beyond a certain outfit. The hero is 97% of your look. The 3% is the outfit.
> And you get to customize your characters more in COD than you do in Overwatch. What are you going on about?
>
> The further this is explained (RvB doesn’t actually mean RvB), the dumber this gets. This is needless nitpicking over something that didn’t need to be changed. I don’t particularly care that it is changed but the sentiment of “gEt wItH tHe tImEs” is asinine and arbitrary.

What are you on about??? You gonna tell me that this ( https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Headless-Pharah-Overwatch.jpg ) is ‘just an outfit’ ? and when you join a game it forces you to be red??? You’ve gotta be trolling at this point. Also when I was talking about CoD, I was talking about the team-based ones, not warzone, which is completely irrelevant to this discussion since… there’s no team color to force you into, since there’s no team.

I want to be green. I like the color. When I die, I want to see my cool, forest green spartan, not some plain-red or plain-blue that I didn’t choose. Don’t force antiquated anti-customization systems just to preserve your weird nostalgia.

12

You’re 100% right about the weapon sandbox. I understand the desire for classic weapons to return in some capacity, but lets be real. A solid sandbox, both in weapons and equipment is the best thing for Halo. A solid sandbox isn’t a large one, it’s one with well-defined niches, with little bloat, and lacking a jack-of-all-trades weapon. This isn’t an easy balance, and Halo hasn’t really succeeded too many times in this regard.

Halo’s sandbox has had significant bloat ever since Halo 2, especially with Dual Wielding in the mix. I actually think Halo 3 almost nailed it, AR starts are extremely fun because they give the other weapons in the sandbox room to breathe, as well as forcing players to move toward precision weapon spawns and making them move around maps instead of encouraging a campier playstyle. However, Dual Wielding, especially Halo 3’s implementation, kinda killed that part of the sandbox for me.

So far what we’ve seen from Halo infinite is incredibly promising. Weapons have solid niches, and instead of several precision weapons in the sandbox with a similar RoF/Cadence, we’re seeing some incredibly unique weapons with well-defined ranges and roles. Even where weapons share engagement ranges, each weapon features distinct functionalities and mechanics that differentiate them from one-another. The Bulldog, Sword, and Hammer all behave incredibly differently, even though they share similar engagement ranges. At first, I was pretty disappointed to see the Classic Shotgun be removed, only because it’s interruptible reload was something unique about the weapon. I’ve backtracked that disappointment though, because I see how 343 is differentiating these CQC weapons. The Hammer is incredibly close-range, but it’s AoE is cranked to the max, the Bulldog is a mid-range counter to both the sword and hammer, without outright deleting people in one shot, it’s TTK increases dramatically at range.

Even looking at the mid range weapons, the Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine each behave quite differently, even though they share similar engagement ranges. The Pulse Carbine edges out the AR in range, but it’s cadence is quite different to the AR, as well as being more dependent upon leading shots. It’s a unique weapon in the sandbox, as opposed to the Suppressor/Storm Rifle/AR/SMG of Halo 5. From the looks of it, the Commando is a low RoF ranged weapon that doesn’t feature precision damage (though that has yet to be fully confirmed, just my observations). It’s a counter to the BR, without being outright better than it. It behaves differently and has a different cadence, unlike the Light Rifle/DMR/BR/Carbine of Halo 5. See how that is becoming a trend in the sandbox? Each weapon is totally unique from weapons of similar ranges and tiers. I’m stoked.

Where I don’t quite agree with you is RvB. This is a much more subjective conversation, but I really believe that Red Vs Blue is a staple of the halo series. It’s simple and effective and conveying who is on your team, to a point where you could give your mother the controller and she’d understand to shoot the blue guys. Telling your mom to shoot the guys with the red outline is a little harder to explain. Part of what made Halo so successful has always been it’s accessibility and simplicity. There’s a reason so many of us started Halo when we were kids. Hell, I started playing Halo when I was six! I was terrible, could barely hold the controller, but I thought it was awesome! No one had to explain to me who was on my team, because Red Vs Blue is so straightforward.

Aside from simplicity, I just think identifying players is much easier with team colors as opposed to outlines. In a flash, if I know I’m on red team, I’m not likely to flick my teammate in SWAT when I get spooked. I realize that there will be friendly outlines as well, but it’s not entirely foolproof.

I’m not saying that Outlines is no good and the worst thing they’ve done to the game, they’ve officially killed Halo for the third time in a row, and I’m never going to be able to live again happily; there’s no reason to go on… That spot is reserved for the ammo counter bullets being replaced by numbers :stuck_out_tongue:

In all seriousness I hope there’s a toggle for team colors, that way players can be represented how they like, but the Halo boomers like me can still rely on our Reds and Blues. It’d be a nice thing to have, and from personal experience, I struggle to see outlines in certain lights. I’m glad we’ll be able to customize the color of the outline, but I’d still love to see colors be an option! Good Post, hope you fully read through mine lol

13

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> > > 2535411347511088;6:
> > > > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> > > >
> > > > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > > > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
> > >
> > > RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
> > >
> > > The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> > > Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.
> >
> > Not to mention Titanfall 2 didn’t even have forced team colors. You controlled your color you just had an outline on opponents HUD.
>
> Can’t tell if you mixed them up but TF2 is Team Fortress 2, not Titanfall 2. (I use either TF|2 or Tf2 for that, since TF2 has been using that acronym since 2007)

Oh no no I was referring to the user you quoted saying Titanfall 2 has RvB, adding to your points.

But yeah, the TF2 and Titanfall 2 confusion is real sometimes lol

14

People just love to complain; that’s the bottom line.

15

> 2533274793006817;5:
> > 2533274906921231;3:
> > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
>
> I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Gears is also essentialy RvB. Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has distinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
>
>
> > 2533274906921231;3:
> > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.
>
> You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.

Di all the games you listed have the friendly fire on .? I play a lot of destiny pvp the main difference I can see as why the outline system works is that title is no friendly fire s enabled so if you accidently shoot a teammate the worst outcome is some flinch to them .whereas in halo the net result much bigger penalty .

16

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> > 2533274793006817;10:
> > > 2535411347511088;6:
> > > > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> > > >
> > > > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > > > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my friend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
> > >
> > > RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
> > >
> > > The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> > > Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.
> >
> > Overwatch specifically does do that. It’s a hero shooter. You don’t get to customize your character beyond a certain outfit. The hero is 97% of your look. The 3% is the outfit.
> > And you get to customize your characters more in COD than you do in Overwatch. What are you going on about?
> >
> > The further this is explained (RvB doesn’t actually mean RvB), the dumber this gets. This is needless nitpicking over something that didn’t need to be changed. I don’t particularly care that it is changed but the sentiment of “gEt wItH tHe tImEs” is asinine and arbitrary.
>
> What are you on about??? You gonna tell me that this ( https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Headless-Pharah-Overwatch.jpg ) is ‘just an outfit’ ? and when you join a game it forces you to be red??? You’ve gotta be trolling at this point. Also when I was talking about CoD, I was talking about the team-based ones, not warzone, which is completely irrelevant to this discussion since… there’s no team color to force you into, since there’s no team.
>
> I want to be green. I like the color. When I die, I want to see my cool, forest green spartan, not some plain-red or plain-blue that I didn’t choose. Don’t force antiquated anti-customization systems just to preserve your weird nostalgia.

What kind’ve strawman nonsense are you saying right now? And does that Pharah outfit change her hitbox? Does it change the way you play the character? OK, then it is purely cosmetic, and I bet that skin still still has an outline telling you what team they’re on.

Also, I said the only ones that don’t force a RvB scenario is Warzone. Warzone is the only Call of Duty that suits your argument, so I don’t understand why you’re dismissing it.

And Call of Duty goes for even more cosmetic changes than Halo so spare me your nonsense about COD not having any customization. You’re just raging over nothing.

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> 2535406126289417;15:
> > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> >
> > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Gears is also essentialy RvB. Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has distinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.
> >
> > You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
>
> Di all the games you listed have the friendly fire on .? I play a lot of destiny pvp the main difference I can see as why the outline system works is that title is no friendly fire s enabled so if you accidently shoot a teammate the worst outcome is some flinch to them .whereas in halo the net result much bigger penalty .

I would say they do not. That’s a good point to bring up; a team game with friendly fire needs to make sure players can tell enemies from friendlies, no matter how much some clowns want to cosplay as the jolly green giant. Playability is most important.

18

> 2533274793006817;5:
> > 2533274906921231;3:
> > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
>
> I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Gears is also essentialy RvB. Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has distinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
>
>
> > 2533274906921231;3:
> > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.
>
> You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.

I think the first point has been dissected rather thoroughly in the above comments; all I will add is an example: Battlefront 2 2017 features a light outline around enemy players. Despite the fact that people on different teams wear different armor (i.e. stormtroopers vs rebels), it is not always clear who is friend or foe, and the outline gives clarity to that.

As to the second point, I take you at your word that people have complained vehemently about changes to the legacy titles as they were coming out, so maybe my point is better said like this: my impression is that these days, the vast majority of fans have no problems or complaints with the various sandbox changes between the games. For that reason, it seems that many of those who were angry or upset back in the 2006-2011 period you mention were mostly just upset with change for its own sake. I was not on the forums, however, I do remember that Reach was a rather contentious title, but I would argue that the changes in Infinite’s sandbox are much smaller than from Halo 3 to Reach, or any of the other large scale changes in Bungie’s titles.

19

> 2535411347511088;6:
> > 2533274793006817;5:
> > > 2533274906921231;3:
> > > - I believe Halo is behind the times when it comes to forcing team colors.
> >
> > I mean, “the times” say Overwatch has a clear RvB same as Halo. Call of Duty BO3 and IW definitely had RvB (or more appropriately for all these games, Red vs Teal). COD WW2 had Reich vs Allies, MW’19 and Cold War had 2 distinct forces (CW may have changed because people wanted to play as their $20 skin all the time. Honestly not sure if that ever changed). Titanfall 2 was Orange vs Blue if I recall. Battlefield has disctinct uniforms based on what side you’re on. I think about the only games that don’t have a clear distinction between factions are Battle Royales. What games are you thinking of? Either way, “get with the times” is rather dubious as the times are contentious in this regard at best.
> > - The changes people have been getting all hot and bothered over in Infinite are, for the most part, smaller than many of Bungie’s changes between their Halo titles, and I’ve never heard people complain about those; therefore, I think people are more upset than they ought to be.You, my firend, were not there on the Bnet forums from 2006 to 2011 if you think that’s the case.
>
> RvB system doesn’t mean “Red team vs Blue team” it means “everyone on the same team is forced to dress in the same color” which overwatch specifically DIDN’T do because of their skin system (outside of tournaments, where teams get custom skins to use). also CoD, titanfall, and BF are bad examples because they put no emphasis on character customization, aside from guns (which notably aren’t affected by any forced color systems) but even they don’t make everyone bright red and bright blue, they give them setting-appropriate costumes and then outline or mark them in their respective team’s colors (which is actually just red for the enemy, blue for the ally, which is exactly what infinite is doing)
>
> The closest other game to Halo’s RvB forced color system is… TF2… from 2007.
> Overwatch and paladins are the most contemporaneous team games with such a strong emphasis on character customization, and neither of them use forced colors. It’s an antiquated system.

Thanks friend, this is what I was trying to say :slight_smile:

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> 2533274923428997;12:
> You’re 100% right about the weapon sandbox. I understand the desire for classic weapons to return in some capacity, but lets be real. A solid sandbox, both in weapons and equipment is the best thing for Halo. A solid sandbox isn’t a large one, it’s one with well-defined niches, with little bloat, and lacking a jack-of-all-trades weapon. This isn’t an easy balance, and Halo hasn’t really succeeded too many times in this regard.
>
> Halo’s sandbox has had significant bloat ever since Halo 2, especially with Dual Wielding in the mix. I actually think Halo 3 almost nailed it, AR starts are extremely fun because they give the other weapons in the sandbox room to breathe, as well as forcing players to move toward precision weapon spawns and making them move around maps instead of encouraging a campier playstyle. However, Dual Wielding, especially Halo 3’s implementation, kinda killed that part of the sandbox for me.
>
> So far what we’ve seen from Halo infinite is incredibly promising. Weapons have solid niches, and instead of several precision weapons in the sandbox with a similar RoF/Cadence, we’re seeing some incredibly unique weapons with well-defined ranges and roles. Even where weapons share engagement ranges, each weapon features distinct functionalities and mechanics that differentiate them from one-another. The Bulldog, Sword, and Hammer all behave incredibly differently, even though they share similar engagement ranges. At first, I was pretty disappointed to see the Classic Shotgun be removed, only because it’s interruptible reload was something unique about the weapon. I’ve backtracked that disappointment though, because I see how 343 is differentiating these CQC weapons. The Hammer is incredibly close-range, but it’s AoE is cranked to the max, the Bulldog is a mid-range counter to both the sword and hammer, without outright deleting people in one shot, it’s TTK increases dramatically at range.
>
> Even looking at the mid range weapons, the Commando, Battle Rifle, and Pulse Carbine each behave quite differently, even though they share similar engagement ranges. The Pulse Carbine edges out the AR in range, but it’s cadence is quite different to the AR, as well as being more dependent upon leading shots. It’s a unique weapon in the sandbox, as opposed to the Suppressor/Storm Rifle/AR/SMG of Halo 5. From the looks of it, the Commando is a low RoF ranged weapon that doesn’t feature precision damage (though that has yet to be fully confirmed, just my observations). It’s a counter to the BR, without being outright better than it. It behaves differently and has a different cadence, unlike the Light Rifle/DMR/BR/Carbine of Halo 5. See how that is becoming a trend in the sandbox? Each weapon is totally unique from weapons of similar ranges and tiers. I’m stoked.
>
> Where I don’t quite agree with you is RvB. This is a much more subjective conversation, but I really believe that Red Vs Blue is a staple of the halo series. It’s simple and effective and conveying who is on your team, to a point where you could give your mother the controller and she’d understand to shoot the blue guys. Telling your mom to shoot the guys with the red outline is a little harder to explain. Part of what made Halo so successful has always been it’s accessibility and simplicity. There’s a reason so many of us started Halo when we were kids. Hell, I started playing Halo when I was six! I was terrible, could barely hold the controller, but I thought it was awesome! No one had to explain to me who was on my team, because Red Vs Blue is so straightforward.
>
> Aside from simplicity, I just think identifying players is much easier with team colors as opposed to outlines. In a flash, if I know I’m on red team, I’m not likely to flick my teammate in SWAT when I get spooked. I realize that there will be friendly outlines as well, but it’s not entirely foolproof.
>
> I’m not saying that Outlines is no good and the worst thing they’ve done to the game, they’ve officially killed Halo for the third time in a row, and I’m never going to be able to live again happily; there’s no reason to go on… That spot is reserved for the ammo counter bullets being replaced by numbers :stuck_out_tongue:
>
> In all seriousness I hope there’s a toggle for team colors, that way players can be represented how they like, but the Halo boomers like me can still rely on our Reds and Blues. It’d be a nice thing to have, and from personal experience, I struggle to see outlines in certain lights. I’m glad we’ll be able to customize the color of the outline, but I’d still love to see colors be an option! Good Post, hope you fully read through mine lol

Thanks for the very thoughtful response! You were able to explain much better than I was how I feel about the sandbox :slight_smile:

I definitely see where you’re coming from with regards to RvB. I doubt 343 would put in a toggle for team colors since they’re trying to sell skins and coatings, and (I think?) most players play in team games. However, I’m sure that 343 is aware that people are afraid of losing gameplay clarity because of outlines instead of having forced team colors, and the outlines will be tuned and balanced to a great extent to make sure that clarity isn’t lost. It may never be as obvious as it was before with “go shoot the red guys”, but I think “go shoot the guys with red outlines” is a compromise I’m willing to take since it’s a win for player expression. I’ve always been a bit disappointed that the colors I pick for my spartan go unused during the majority of my time playing Halo, so for me personally, eliminating Red vs Blue forced colors is a win.

I also am not super thrilled about ammo counter bullets being replaced by numbers! But who knows, maybe it’ll grow on me.

Hopefully the outlines will be very clear and obvious in moment to moment gameplay, and I’m sure 343 is doing what they can to make sure that’s the case.

Again, thanks for the thoughtful response :slight_smile: