Elite's are grossly underpowered.

So, what do we know about Elites?

They are fearsome fighters.
One of the mightiest races in the galaxy and one of the highest ranked in Tech(Pre-Covenant and during Covenant. Not so much now)
Intelligent and great strategists.
And it’s been stated that the Chief has had a lengthy battle with an Elite. Twice.

So tell me why they are so weak in Ghosts Of Onyx and in Halo 4?

It really makes no sense. They can kill SII’s and SIV’s easily. So why make them such big pushovers? It’s just making Humanity seem like steamrollers, demolishing everything in their path with is not very fun to read/play/watch.

Just once I would like to see them win with LOL HUMANS SOMEHOW WIN.

They won in Reach and in Harvest. I do understand what you mean. The Elites seemed much weaker in Halo 4. But remember that, that is not the actual covenent army.

Humanity aren’t steamrollers. Just the Spartans. Spartans are practically demi-gods. Even an elite minor would be able to destroy most human forces easily (Like Thel’s team of Zealots in The Cole protocol), but because of their enhanced strength, speed, reflexes, senses and almost unbreakable bones as well as their incredible skill in combat, the elites don’t stand a chance against a Spartan.

It’s said that Spartan reflexes are so fast that they could dodge point blank plasma pistol shots. When you’re that fast, it’s difficult not to win. Anything they throw, a Spartan can dodge, block or counter and then retaliate against them before they even know what’s happened.

In Episode 8 of Spartan Ops however, Thorne was overpowered by Gek and easily would have been killed had it not been for the rest of Majestic’s arrival.

In Episode 9 it was only so easy for Majestic to take them out because they were minors anyway and they had the drop on them. 4 Spartans vs 12 elites (Not the exact number but there weren’t many) = dead elites.

Let’s not forget that the Covenant Remnant won’t be as lethal as the former covenant were and that’s why they’re getting destroyed so much.

Well if you take a look at any Halo cutscene, you’ll see that Elites are slow as rocks, never have energy shields on, and can generally be knocked on their -Yoink- by a regular marine cough Ripa Moramme cough. For the sake of style over substance, CG cutscenes will always show Elites getting 1 shot killed by weak -Yoink- weapons where as novel Elites (like the one in life and death of Preston Cole) take a whole mag to the chest and survive.

Ugh. The Elites are too over-confident with their pride and possibly underestimate the Spartans that they face; and thinking that the Spartans are worse than themselves. They recklessly charge into battle with over aggression, and that clouds their mind into thinking straight.

Remember, Canon Elites are much less powerful than even Easy Elites.

It’s always been that the humans won most of the land battles but not the the air ones. That is a factor.

These elites are stupid enough to not to understand that the forerunners aren’t gods who favor them and that their artifacts don’t allow transcendence, after the huge Covenant civil war.

They bring that stupidity to the battlefield.

> It’s always been that the humans won most of the land battles but not the the air ones. That is a factor.

Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the only time Humanity ever won against the Covenant is when they had a sizeable numerical advantage.

> Humanity aren’t steamrollers. Just the Spartans. Spartans are practically demi-gods. Even an elite minor would be able to destroy most human forces easily (Like Thel’s team of Zealots in The Cole protocol), but because of their enhanced strength, speed, reflexes, senses and almost unbreakable bones as well as their incredible skill in combat, the elites don’t stand a chance against a Spartan.
>
> It’s said that Spartan reflexes are so fast that they could dodge point blank plasma pistol shots. When you’re that fast, it’s difficult not to win. Anything they throw, a Spartan can dodge, block or counter and then retaliate against them before they even know what’s happened.
>
> In Episode 8 of Spartan Ops however, Thorne was overpowered by Gek and easily would have been killed had it not been for the rest of Majestic’s arrival.
>
> In Episode 9 it was only so easy for Majestic to take them out because they were minors anyway and they had the drop on them. 4 Spartans vs 12 elites (Not the exact number but there weren’t many) = dead elites.
>
> Let’s not forget that the Covenant Remnant won’t be as lethal as the former covenant were and that’s why they’re getting destroyed so much.

Yes, but the Remnant are all about their honor and would put their members through exactly the same training as they did in the original Covenant.

And Elite’s are just as strong, tall and have slightly slower reflexes than a SII.
And where the hell was it said that Spartan reflexes could dodge a plasma Pistol shot, POINT BLANK. Elites can easily match a Spartans speed, especially the Zealots. And besides, if the Spartans were that powerful, none would be dead. And the Chief would not have even broken a sweat fighting that Elite up close.

Another thing, why the heck is 343 throwing around Plasma Blades like they are common weapons? If an Elite has a Plasma Blade, they must have been training with it since they held one. They have a lifetime of experience with those swords. How could they be beaten by a Spartan who had a few days experience? I don’t care how fast you are, if you are fighting someone with a weapon you have been using all your life and he has been using if a few days, you will beat the crap out of him.

> > It’s always been that the humans won most of the land battles but not the the air ones. That is a factor.
>
> Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the only time Humanity ever won against the Covenant is when they had a sizeable numerical advantage.

Halsey’s journal. Humanity has had many victories at battle. But they lose their planets in the end because they’re defenseless against plasma bombardment once the Covenant have air superiority.

> > > It’s always been that the humans won most of the land battles but not the the air ones. That is a factor.
> >
> > Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the only time Humanity ever won against the Covenant is when they had a sizeable numerical advantage.
>
> Halsey’s journal. Humanity has had many victories at battle. But they lose their planets in the end because they’re defenseless against plasma bombardment once the Covenant have air superiority.

Nice try. The Halsey Journal is considered Canon, but we still have to take in all the other canon as well. The Covenant and Humanity are round about equal on the ground. Tell me what Human forces can stand against a team of Zealots?

Canon answer: NONE.

343 Humans beat everything answer: EVERYTHING.

> > Humanity aren’t steamrollers. Just the Spartans. Spartans are practically demi-gods. Even an elite minor would be able to destroy most human forces easily (Like Thel’s team of Zealots in The Cole protocol), but because of their enhanced strength, speed, reflexes, senses and almost unbreakable bones as well as their incredible skill in combat, the elites don’t stand a chance against a Spartan.
> >
> > It’s said that Spartan reflexes are so fast that they could dodge point blank plasma pistol shots. When you’re that fast, it’s difficult not to win. Anything they throw, a Spartan can dodge, block or counter and then retaliate against them before they even know what’s happened.
> >
> > In Episode 8 of Spartan Ops however, Thorne was overpowered by Gek and easily would have been killed had it not been for the rest of Majestic’s arrival.
> >
> > In Episode 9 it was only so easy for Majestic to take them out because they were minors anyway and they had the drop on them. 4 Spartans vs 12 elites (Not the exact number but there weren’t many) = dead elites.
> >
> > Let’s not forget that the Covenant Remnant won’t be as lethal as the former covenant were and that’s why they’re getting destroyed so much.
>
> Yes, but the Remnant are all about their honor and would put their members through exactly the same training as they did in the original Covenant.
>
> And Elite’s are just as strong, tall and have slightly slower reflexes than a SII.
> And where the hell was it said that Spartan reflexes could dodge a plasma Pistol shot, POINT BLANK. Elites can easily match a Spartans speed, especially the Zealots. And besides, if the Spartans were that powerful, none would be dead. And the Chief would not have even broken a sweat fighting that Elite up close.
>
> Another thing, why the heck is 343 throwing around Plasma Blades like they are common weapons? If an Elite has a Plasma Blade, they must have been training with it since they held one. They have a lifetime of experience with those swords. How could they be beaten by a Spartan who had a few days experience? I don’t care how fast you are, if you are fighting someone with a weapon you have been using all your life and he has been using if a few days, you will beat the crap out of him.

Episode 8 of Spartan Ops a captured Elite gave up information about a listening post in return for his life. Any elite with a backbone would have killed himself. But these remnant elites are from colony worlds from from Sanghelios. They likely have slight cultural differences. Some didn’t even realise the war was over when they were recruited by Jul.

Elites might be as strong and might be able to run as fast, but they certainly won’t be as good in hand to hand. The Spartans will have been trained to be incredible in hand to hand, one reference being Will-043 who managed to kill a hunter with his bare fists.

They’re reflexes also won’t be anywhere near as fast. We can assume that they have reflexes similiar to a humans, maybe slightly faster as they are similiar in intelligence and so they probably have similiar brains. The Spartan II augmentations were supposed to make their reflexes 300% that of a normal human. Due to their perfect genes however, it made their reflexes 1400% that of a normal human. Couple this with their Mjolnir which amplifies their reflexes even more, they’ll be lightning fast. An Elite wouldn’t stand a chance.

Pretty sure it was Ghost of Onyx. People have referenced it on here before.
Most of the Spartans died because of unforeseen circumstances or things they couldn’t help. Some died on Reach when their Pelican crashed, Vinh and Isaac were killed by a collapsing tunnel, Joshua was shot down by a covenant cruiser or something of the likes, 11 more died on Reach when they were outnumbered by a force of 36 wraiths of hundreds of infantry. A few were killed in First Strike, Grace by a Brute sneak attack and Li and Anton were killed by a stray plasma bolt in a slipspace enviorment that they’d never encountered before. WIll was killed in hand to hand with two hunters (He wouldn’t have died if the second hunter wasn’t there), Kurt sacrificed himself. Arthur was crushed between two cruisers, Solomon was killed by a trap and Sam died when encountering the covenant for the very first time. Literally only a few Spartans died because they legitimately lost due to their skill in battle.

I know what you mean about the swords though. I wonder if Jul simply equipped them with swords because they’re a covenant remnant. They may feel entitled to swords because of their religion.

> Elites might be as strong and might be able to run as fast, but they certainly won’t be as good in hand to hand. The Spartans will have been trained to be incredible in hand to hand, one reference being Will-043 who managed to kill a hunter with his bare fists.
>
> They’re reflexes also won’t be anywhere near as fast. We can assume that they have reflexes similiar to a humans, maybe slightly faster as they are similiar in intelligence and so they probably have similiar brains. The Spartan II augmentations were supposed to make their reflexes 300% that of a normal human. Due to their perfect genes however, it made their reflexes 1400% that of a normal human. Couple this with their Mjolnir which amplifies their reflexes even more, they’ll be lightning fast. An Elite wouldn’t stand a chance.

As a matter of fact, Elites are trained in hand to hand combat since they are very young, just like the Spartan IIs were. It’s in their culture, they are warriors. Hence, in terms of raw experience, they are at least on par with a Spartan II when it comes to hand to hand combat. As a matter of fact, Fall of Reach, page 315 says:

“They wrestled for control. The gun pointed at the alien–then Master Chief. The alien was as strong as Master Chief. They spun and bounced off the floor, ceiling, and walls. They were too evenly matched”

That suggests the Elite was at least on par with armored Chief. And I doubt that’s just in terms of strength, but all abilities in general. Elites are far from normal humans in terms of physiology, closer to Spartans. It shouldn’t be as easy as shown in Spartan Ops for a Spartan to take out Elites. As a matter of fact, both Spartans and Elites are shown to be far slower in Spartan Ops than they really are. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing some good choreography displaying the abilities of both in an episode of Spartan Ops. Nonetheless, Elites are on par with Spartans. A 1v1 should be very even, 1v2 should be disadvantageous.

Also, Spartans’ reflexes are only improved by the augmentation procedures as well as potential AI integration in the Mjolnir armor. However, their genes have very little, if nothing, to do with their abilities post-augmentations, neither does the Mjolnir armor, only the AI integration. Their reflexes are only three times that of a normal human, nothing more, nothing less.

> As a matter of fact, Elites are trained in hand to hand combat since they are very young, just like the Spartan IIs were. It’s in their culture, they are warriors. Hence, in terms of raw experience, they are at least on par with a Spartan II when it comes to hand to hand combat. As a matter of fact, Fall of Reach, page 315 says:
>
> “They wrestled for control. The gun pointed at the alien–then Master Chief. The alien was as strong as Master Chief. They spun and bounced off the floor, ceiling, and walls. They were too evenly matched”
>
> That suggests the Elite was at least on par with armored Chief.

that’s just dramatization in a novel. Master Chief has also lost in a sword battle against another elite in one of the Halo animated episodes and so forth. just as the CG scenes dramatize the fights in Spartan Ops, prolonging fights and evening out the field for the sake of better plot, the novels are not immune from such sensational writing. on the other hand, Jul, a sword-wielding shipmaster, couldn’t do anything against Naomi. there are other cases of Spartans easily overpowering elites and brutes who are stronger and faster than elites. one of the few exceptions is Master Chief for some strange reason. you can’t compare species and their abilities based off of their skirmishes in CG scenes or books. at most, you can look at their potential abilities such as strength, speed, reflexes and base the most probable outcome off these stats.

> And I doubt that’s just in terms of strength, but all abilities in general. Elites are far from normal humans in terms of physiology, closer to Spartans. It shouldn’t be as easy as shown in Spartan Ops for a Spartan to take out Elites. As a matter of fact, both Spartans and Elites are shown to be far slower in Spartan Ops than they really are. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing some good choreography displaying the abilities of both in an episode of Spartan Ops.

it’s limited to strength (although I doubt even that). there’s no comparison to a Spartan’s reflexes, enhanced by the augmentations, power suit, and even further by potential AI.

> Nonetheless, Elites are on par with Spartans. A 1v1 should be very even, 1v2 should be disadvantageous.

Spartans, as the epilogue in Halo 4 suggests, are credited to having saved the human race. the UNSC couldn’t have possibly expected the Spartans to overwhelm potentially a billion covenant soldiers and invested so much of their money if a Spartan was tied down by a single elite. likewise, Spartans need to be far above Elites in order to comply with this theme.

> Also, Spartans’ reflexes are only improved by the augmentation procedures as well as potential AI integration in the Mjolnir armor. However, their genes have very little, if nothing, to do with their abilities post-augmentations, neither does the Mjolnir armor, only the AI integration. Their reflexes are only three times that of a normal human, nothing more, nothing less.

the augmentation alone results in a 300% increase in reflex speed. their armor takes it even further due to the reactive metal liquid crystal layer, which increases that reaction time by a factor of five.

> > > > It’s always been that the humans won most of the land battles but not the the air ones. That is a factor.
> > >
> > > Where is that stated? It was my understanding that the only time Humanity ever won against the Covenant is when they had a sizeable numerical advantage.
> >
> > Halsey’s journal. Humanity has had many victories at battle. But they lose their planets in the end because they’re defenseless against plasma bombardment once the Covenant have air superiority.
>
> Nice try. The Halsey Journal is considered Canon, but we still have to take in all the other canon as well. The Covenant and Humanity are round about equal on the ground. Tell me what Human forces can stand against a team of Zealots?
>
> Canon answer: NONE.
>
> 343 Humans beat everything answer: EVERYTHING.

The “humans win alot on land, but lose in space” thing has been how the war was described since the first novel, if not one of the first.

And who can stand against Zealots? Spartans, for once thing. But then, the Covenant’s forces aren’t made up of Zealots, are they? I’d say one Zealot for every several thousand other regular troops, but that might even be pushing it.

Add in to the fact that Covie weaponry was very basic and overall inferior to human weaponry in many ways, and the Elites’ “Honor Before Reason” mentality, their forces made up primarily of not-so-smart Grunts and Jackals, and humans win an equal, if not more amount of battles.

> Well if you take a look at any Halo cutscene, you’ll see that Elites are slow as rocks, never have energy shields on, and can generally be knocked on their -Yoink!- by a regular marine cough Ripa Moramme cough. For the sake of style over substance, CG cutscenes will always show Elites getting 1 shot killed by weak -Yoink!- weapons where as novel Elites (like the one in life and death of Preston Cole) take a whole mag to the chest and survive.

It isn’t style over substance, it’s realism over fantasy. In most of the novels it usually only took a burst from an assault rifle, or even two rounds from a magnum to kill an elite. Spartan’s had superior shielding technology compared to elites.

In halo wars Ripa Moramme was being overly prideful when fighting John Forge. Ripa could’ve easily killed John if he was serious. When John tackled Ripa, it was perfectly logical for the elite to have fallen. When you combine Ripa’s weight, and high center of gravity; a well built football player could topple him over with the right positioning and tackle.

> that’s just dramatization in a novel. Master Chief has also lost in a sword battle against another elite in one of the Halo animated episodes and so forth. just as the CG scenes dramatize the fights in Spartan Ops, prolonging fights and evening out the field for the sake of better plot, the novels are not immune from such sensational writing. on the other hand, Jul, a sword-wielding shipmaster, couldn’t do anything against Naomi. there are other cases of Spartans easily overpowering elites and brutes who are stronger and faster than elites. one of the few exceptions is Master Chief for some strange reason. you can’t compare species and their abilities based off of their skirmishes in CG scenes or books. at most, you can look at their potential abilities such as strength, speed, reflexes and base the most probable outcome off these stats.
>
> it’s limited to strength (although I doubt even that). there’s no comparison to a Spartan’s reflexes, enhanced by the augmentations, power suit, and even further by potential AI.

I could throw a similar argument for Spartans easily taking out Elites: to make the Spartans look better. It’s much “cooler” to have a Spartan take out multiple Elites rather than have troubles taking out one.

Frankly, nothing is really known about the Elite physiology. And there is a lot of conflicting material to their strength. Nylund’s original books tend to describe encounters with Elites as something special rather than just taking out another enemy. It’s only later in the Kilo Five trilogy where Karen Traviss turns them into pushovers that can’t even cooperate after a long war.

> Spartans, as the epilogue in Halo 4 suggests, are credited to having saved the human race. the UNSC couldn’t have possibly expected the Spartans to overwhelm potentially a billion covenant soldiers and invested so much of their money if a Spartan was tied down by a single elite. likewise, Spartans need to be far above Elites in order to comply with this theme.

Spartans are still far better than normal human. They were humanity’s only hope. Besides, Spartan IIs were created before the war to handle the Insurrection, and Elites weren’t met often before the end of the war. Spartan IIIs were disposable soldiers that were created to attack by force, and none were expected to survive alive from the missions they were sent to. Only very few survived. Spartans were good at getting the job done, but their operational success was much more good planning and never getting themselves into a situation where they would be in a disadvantage.

> the augmentation alone results in a 300% increase in reflex speed. their armor takes it even further due to the reactive metal liquid crystal layer, which increases that reaction time by a factor of five.

Apparently, yes.

From what I’ve noticed from reading the books and playing the games is that Spartan-II’s, if we use John as a baseline average (since we know that some Spartans are more adept, some are less adept in that role) for all the Spartans, A Spartan II is about equal to the strongest of Zealots, or Shipmasters in strength, size, endurance and and basic intelligence. What they excel in are fundamentals such as squad/fireteam tactics, battlefield awareness, and have the option to win by any means necessary.

Now, what we’re seeing a lot of Spartans killing in Spartan Ops are the Elite Minors. Sure, they’re much stronger than a normal human, but would be no match for a S-II. And even though S-IV’s don’t have as effective augmentations, they’re still somewhat close to a S-II – They both have Mjolnir armor to further augment their reflexes, speed, and so forth, they both have the option for AI pairing, and they both have the battlefield intelligence that I would assume surpasses most Elite Minors.

Now, as we saw with Gek, we can assume he’s around Zealot status, possibly higher. If the rest of Majestic hadn’t showed up, Gek would have won the fight. So really, 343 isn’t doing an awful job portraying the elites.

Nevertheless, I preferred when they spoke English like Halo 3. For me, and I understand others have different viewpoints on this (it’s opinion really), I don’t need that level of immersion. That, and Elites had awesome voices in H2 and H3.

> From what I’ve noticed from reading the books and playing the games is that Spartan-II’s, if we use John as a baseline average (since we know that some Spartans are more adept, some are less adept in that role) for all the Spartans, A Spartan II is about equal to the strongest of Zealots, or Shipmasters in strength, size, endurance and and basic intelligence. What they excel in are fundamentals such as squad/fireteam tactics, battlefield awareness, and have the option to win by any means necessary.
>
> Now, what we’re seeing a lot of Spartans killing in Spartan Ops are the Elite Minors. Sure, they’re much stronger than a normal human, but would be no match for a S-II. And even though S-IV’s don’t have as effective augmentations, they’re still somewhat close to a S-II – They both have Mjolnir armor to further augment their reflexes, speed, and so forth, they both have the option for AI pairing, and they both have the battlefield intelligence that I would assume surpasses most Elite Minors.
>
> Now, as we saw with Gek, we can assume he’s around Zealot status, possibly higher. If the rest of Majestic hadn’t showed up, Gek would have won the fight. So really, 343 isn’t doing an awful job portraying the elites.
>
> Nevertheless, I preferred when they spoke English like Halo 3. For me, and I understand others have different viewpoints on this (it’s opinion really), I don’t need that level of immersion. That, and Elites had awesome voices in H2 and H3.

This is true, Gek is a high ranking, and experienced, Zealot as well as a Assassin, who has killed multiple Spartans, and lost a eye presumably to one as well. He would of killed Thorne due to Thornes mistake near the end of their battle. Two powerful opponents fighting for their lives always leaves one to possibly make a mistake, similar to how Arbiter Ripa made a mistake fighting John Forge, he should of simply killed him instead of letting his pride take control.

Honestly OP seems to understand very little about Spartans and Elites, maybe he should do some research on them instead of throwing out nonsense.

A Zealot level Elite is capable of taking on a Spartan in hand to hand combat but that does not mean they are as powerful as Spartans and they definitely not as fast. When you add in the factor of range, weapons, the fact UNSC’s weapons are more efficient overall especially in the hands of a Spartan and how efficient Spartans are with weapons as well as hand to hand combat then the scale tips even more in the Spartans favor.

And I am sorry, if a Elite’s shields are down and he is shot in the face with a Plasma weapon… then he will die instantly, these weapons are like getting splashed in the face with lava and worse, while Spartans can take up to 2 or more direct hits from a Plasma weapon before their armor is breached. If you are complaining about Thorne killing 2 Elites with a burst from a Storm Rifle then you clearly know nothing about Halo or what these weapons are capable of, and you do not include the fact one Elites leg was broken by Thorne as well, no shields, no protection from Plasma or Projectile weapons.

The Covenant won most of their encounters due to air superiority and their advanced technology, which they do not have now compared to the UNSC in Halo 4, the Elites are not gods, they are able to be defeated even by a Marine with enough bullets to down their shields.

Spartans however will always win encounters even against a large group of Elites unless completely unprepared, they are simply more evolved and have enhancements that allow them to be much more formidable than any of the Covenant species. You have to add in the fact that Human technology is increasing in power, potential, in each way overtime and at a much faster rate than the Covenant, and will continue to do so, while the Covenant’s own technology will increase at a much slower rate, if at all.