Well, I already somewhat heard of this, but with Halo 5’s push towards e-sports, what type of research has 343 done into the phenomenon of Red wins more than Blue.
“Red Wins more than blue? Whatchu talkin’ bout? Faceless?”
Well there is a lovely video from The game theorists that go into the psyschology of Red vs Blue.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31K6jammH0
And it got me thinking. With Esports, Halo is playing into the fact that Red team is more likely to win due to underlying psychological issues with humans O_O.
Console tournament games like Call of Duty does not have this issue. The player colour is not present in a dominating way on the players character, or on the map. But in Halo it always has been. So what are they doing to alter this?
I noticed that a lot of maps WERE much darker than Normal. This darkness has been problematic FOR red team because in a lot of maps Blue team blends into the background. Was this done on purpose?
Just something that was on my mind, and honestly has always puzzled me. Frankly if the fans wouldn’t raise pitch forks at RVB being removed I think halo would have been a much more enjoyable game. With customisation being more prominent and of course less subliminal issues with the colour Red.
> 2533274811158328;1:
> Well, I already somewhat heard of this, but with Halo 5’s push towards e-sports, what type of research has 343 done into the phenomenon of Red wins more than Blue.
>
> “Red Wins more than blue? Whatchu talkin’ bout? Faceless?”
>
> Well there is a lovely video from The game theorists that go into the psyschology of Red vs Blue.
> Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31K6jammH0
>
> And it got me thinking. With Esports, Halo is playing into the fact that Red team is more likely to win due to underlying psychological issues with humans O_O.
> Console tournament games like Call of Duty does not have this issue. The player colour is not present in a dominating way on the players character, or on the map. But in Halo it always has been. So what are they doing to alter this?
>
> I noticed that a lot of maps WERE much darker than Normal. This darkness has been problematic FOR red team because in a lot of maps Blue team blends into the background. Was this done on purpose?
>
> Just something that was on my mind, and honestly has always puzzled me. Frankly if the fans wouldn’t raise pitch forks at RVB being removed I think halo would have been a much more enjoyable game. With customisation being more prominent and of course less subliminal issues with the colour Red.
In the Beta, Blue team actually won marginally more than red team. To stop this they made the map Eden brighter because, like you pointed out, those dirty blues were blending in.
> 2533274994900658;2:
> > 2533274811158328;1:
> > Well, I already somewhat heard of this, but with Halo 5’s push towards e-sports, what type of research has 343 done into the phenomenon of Red wins more than Blue.
> >
> > “Red Wins more than blue? Whatchu talkin’ bout? Faceless?”
> >
> > Well there is a lovely video from The game theorists that go into the psyschology of Red vs Blue.
> > Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X31K6jammH0
> >
> > And it got me thinking. With Esports, Halo is playing into the fact that Red team is more likely to win due to underlying psychological issues with humans O_O.
> > Console tournament games like Call of Duty does not have this issue. The player colour is not present in a dominating way on the players character, or on the map. But in Halo it always has been. So what are they doing to alter this?
> >
> > I noticed that a lot of maps WERE much darker than Normal. This darkness has been problematic FOR red team because in a lot of maps Blue team blends into the background. Was this done on purpose?
> >
> > Just something that was on my mind, and honestly has always puzzled me. Frankly if the fans wouldn’t raise pitch forks at RVB being removed I think halo would have been a much more enjoyable game. With customisation being more prominent and of course less subliminal issues with the colour Red.
>
>
> In the Beta, Blue team actually won marginally more than red team. To stop this they made the map Eden brighter because, like you pointed out, those dirty blues were blending in.
Those blues have an advantage now because we lost our advantage. Diabolical…
Is this really being discussed?
> 2533274836465274;4:
> Is this really being discussed?
The fact that Red team has an advantage due to the colour ?? Why not discuss it? It’s something that is easily fixed by simply turning it off, yet it doesn’t happen and sample size aside, it’s displayed to be true time and time again. Which is why I’m wondering what the team at 343 have taken into consideration regarding this.
So yes, I would like this to be really discussed.
Edit:
343 have said themselves their focus is to revive Halo’s competitive reputation. So yeah. Colours cause a win/loss skew, why have colours?
Wait red team wins more than blue? What causes this?
I’d have thought it was the other way round due to red being bright and easy to spot.
Let’s just make it yellow vs green and be done with it.
> 2533274811158328;5:
> > 2533274836465274;4:
> > Is this really being discussed?
>
>
> The fact that Red team has an advantage due to the colour ?? Why not discuss it? It’s something that is easily fixed by simply turning it off, yet it doesn’t happen and sample size aside, it’s displayed to be true time and time again. Which is why I’m wondering what the team at 343 have taken into consideration regarding this.
>
> So yes, I would like this to be really discussed.
>
> Edit:
>
> 343 have said themselves their focus is to revive Halo’s competitive reputation. So yeah. Colours cause a win/loss skew, why have colours?
Halo will never lose the RvB aspect of competitive multiplayer. Sorry, but it’s true. It is an iconic signature of Halo. Do some maps need some sort of balance to fix this? Sure. Do they fix maps that have this sort of issue? Yes.
> 2533274827007197;6:
> Wait red team wins more than blue? What causes this?
>
> I’d have thought it was the other way round due to red being bright and easy to spot.
If you watch the video in the OP, it will explain why.
But to sum it all up, Red makes you more aggressive, Blue enhances your problem solving skills.
> 2533274850938986;8:
> > 2533274811158328;5:
> > > 2533274836465274;4:
> > > Is this really being discussed?
> >
> >
> > The fact that Red team has an advantage due to the colour ?? Why not discuss it? It’s something that is easily fixed by simply turning it off, yet it doesn’t happen and sample size aside, it’s displayed to be true time and time again. Which is why I’m wondering what the team at 343 have taken into consideration regarding this.
> >
> > So yes, I would like this to be really discussed.
> >
> > Edit:
> >
> > 343 have said themselves their focus is to revive Halo’s competitive reputation. So yeah. Colours cause a win/loss skew, why have colours?
>
>
> Halo will never lose the RvB aspect of competitive multiplayer. Sorry, but it’s true. It is an iconic signature of Halo. Do some maps need some sort of balance to fix this? Sure. Do they fix maps that have this sort of issue? Yes.
I’ve seen it a bit. But that is kinda my point. “Iconic” doesn’t always mean better. The fact that RvB has become so popular, it’s now a part of the game that has to be built around. The maps have to be toned to even out the colour differences etc etc.
> 2533274827007197;6:
> Wait red team wins more than blue? What causes this?
>
> I’d have thought it was the other way round due to red being bright and easy to spot.
In studies it seems its basically a subconcious issue with red being a more aggressive and demanding colour vs blue being passive. Some big cities are employing the use of blue lights to reduce violence and suicide. So depending on the game type the colour affects gameplay, where red team players are unconciously more aggressive, and blue team players shrink away from red coloured players.
So I was wondering if the tones and colours of each map were chosen to neutralise this subconscious issue.
> 2533274811158328;10:
> > 2533274850938986;8:
> > > 2533274811158328;5:
> > > > 2533274836465274;4:
> > > > Is this really being discussed?
> > >
> > >
> > > The fact that Red team has an advantage due to the colour ?? Why not discuss it? It’s something that is easily fixed by simply turning it off, yet it doesn’t happen and sample size aside, it’s displayed to be true time and time again. Which is why I’m wondering what the team at 343 have taken into consideration regarding this.
> > >
> > > So yes, I would like this to be really discussed.
> > >
> > > Edit:
> > >
> > > 343 have said themselves their focus is to revive Halo’s competitive reputation. So yeah. Colours cause a win/loss skew, why have colours?
> >
> >
> > Halo will never lose the RvB aspect of competitive multiplayer. Sorry, but it’s true. It is an iconic signature of Halo. Do some maps need some sort of balance to fix this? Sure. Do they fix maps that have this sort of issue? Yes.
>
>
> I’ve seen it a bit. But that is kinda my point. “Iconic” doesn’t always mean better. The fact that RvB has become so popular, it’s now a part of the game that has to be built around. The maps have to be toned to even out the colour differences etc etc.
>
>
> > 2533274827007197;6:
> > Wait red team wins more than blue? What causes this?
> >
> > I’d have thought it was the other way round due to red being bright and easy to spot.
>
>
> In studies it seems its basically a subconcious issue with red being a more aggressive and demanding colour vs blue being passive. Some big cities are employing the use of blue lights to reduce violence and suicide. So depending on the game type the colour affects gameplay, where red team players are unconciously more aggressive, and blue team players shrink away from red coloured players.
>
> So I was wondering if the tones and colours of each map were chosen to neutralise this subconscious issue.
Yes but how many players are actively aware, and thinking about how they are on red team. I mean very rarely am i looking at a blue and saying “that means im red”. Subconcious or not, it has to deal with some sort of knowledge that we know we are red. Otherwise, it works opposite to what you think. By seeing more blue players (in keeping with that Blue Light theory to cause passiveness), we are in fact playing more cautiously. Blue team would be more aggressive as they are seeing more red.
> 2533274848599184;11:
> > 2533274811158328;10:
> > > 2533274850938986;8:
> > > > 2533274811158328;5:
> > > > > 2533274836465274;4:
> > > > > Is this really being discussed?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The fact that Red team has an advantage due to the colour ?? Why not discuss it? It’s something that is easily fixed by simply turning it off, yet it doesn’t happen and sample size aside, it’s displayed to be true time and time again. Which is why I’m wondering what the team at 343 have taken into consideration regarding this.
> > > >
> > > > So yes, I would like this to be really discussed.
> > > >
> > > > Edit:
> > > >
> > > > 343 have said themselves their focus is to revive Halo’s competitive reputation. So yeah. Colours cause a win/loss skew, why have colours?
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo will never lose the RvB aspect of competitive multiplayer. Sorry, but it’s true. It is an iconic signature of Halo. Do some maps need some sort of balance to fix this? Sure. Do they fix maps that have this sort of issue? Yes.
> >
> >
> > I’ve seen it a bit. But that is kinda my point. “Iconic” doesn’t always mean better. The fact that RvB has become so popular, it’s now a part of the game that has to be built around. The maps have to be toned to even out the colour differences etc etc.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274827007197;6:
> > > Wait red team wins more than blue? What causes this?
> > >
> > > I’d have thought it was the other way round due to red being bright and easy to spot.
> >
> >
> > In studies it seems its basically a subconcious issue with red being a more aggressive and demanding colour vs blue being passive. Some big cities are employing the use of blue lights to reduce violence and suicide. So depending on the game type the colour affects gameplay, where red team players are unconciously more aggressive, and blue team players shrink away from red coloured players.
> >
> > So I was wondering if the tones and colours of each map were chosen to neutralise this subconscious issue.
>
>
> Yes but how many players are actively aware, and thinking about how they are on red team. I mean very rarely am i looking at a blue and saying “that means im red”. Subconcious or not, it has to deal with some sort of knowledge that we know we are red. Otherwise, it works opposite to what you think. By seeing more blue players (in keeping with that Blue Light theory to cause passiveness), we are in fact playing more cautiously. Blue team would be more aggressive as they are seeing more red.
That is true, until now I have never consciously given any thought to the significance of which team I am on. But it is also true that subconscious reflexive decision-making is a major part of how we play video games. That is how you can make split-second moves to outgun and outstrafe your foes in multiplayer without needing to think about it first.
That video was very interesting, I enjoyed it very much. Back in H3 Red team did seem to win more.