Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
Maybe the mechanics of the fight.
I feel like fighting Scarabs allows for a little more strategy and a variety of ways to kill them than killing Wardens. With the Scarab, you could board it, if you had a flying vehicle you could destroy an armor plate to expose the core, the legs could be disabled, and so on. But with the Warden, it mostly just feels like pouring as much ammunition into him as possible and maybe try for an assassination if you’re feeling a little reckless.
> 2533274991067213;1:
> Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
There were many ways to approach the scarab. Take out the legs with vehicles/rockets etc, blow the back off with a tank/hornet, find a good jump to board it. The warden is just, run around stay alive and hit him in the back or with heavy weapons. You also fight the Scarab three times in Halo 3 (not including the H2 which was different) first on the storm, then on the Ark, and finally the dual scarab battle on the Covenant. How many times do you fight the warden?
> 2533274880633045;4:
> > 2533274991067213;1:
> > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
>
>
> There were many ways to approach the scarab. Take out the legs with vehicles/rockets etc, blow the back off with a tank/hornet, find a good jump to board it. The warden is just, run around stay alive and hit him in the back or with heavy weapons. You also fight the Scarab three times in Halo 3 (not including the H2 which was different) first on the storm, then on the Ark, and finally the dual scarab battle on the Covenant. How many times do you fight the warden?
Counting individual bodies, nine. Once during Unconfirmed, once during Reunion, once during Battle of Sunaion, thrice during Genesis, thrice during The Breaking.
> 2533274991067213;1:
> Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
First, I don’t necessarily have a problem with a game repeating bosses, in fact some of my favorite games do this. However it would be a good thing for a game to have more than one boss to preserve variety. Dark Souls 2 repeats the Pursuer several times, but the Pursuer is far from being the only boss in the game. Meanwhile in Halo 5 it’s just the Warden each time.
Second, it helps if the dynamics are significantly different each encounter. In Halo 3 you’re fighting the Scarabs in a different manner each time (With Missile Pods, On Foot, and In Hornet). In Halo 5 its kind of like you fight the Warden the same way each encounter, only he just gets more and more bull -Yoink- and unfair each encounter, to the point you’re eventually fighting THREE OF HIM with TURRETS IN THE BACKGROUND. Like come on dude, what is that nonsense?
> 2533274819302824;6:
> > 2533274991067213;1:
> > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
>
>
> First, I don’t necessarily have a problem with a game repeating bosses, in fact some of my favorite games do this. However it would be a good thing for a game to have more than one boss. Dark Souls 2 repeats the Pursuer several times, but the Pursuer is far from being the only boss in the game. Meanwhile in Halo 5 it’s just the Warden each time.
>
> Second, it helps if the dynamics are significantly different each encounter. In Halo 3 you’re fighting the Scarabs in a different manner each time (With Missile Pods, On Foot, and In Hornet). In Halo 5 its kind of like you fight the Warden the same way, only he just gets more and more bull -Yoink- and unfair each encounter, to the point you’re fighting THREE OF HIM with TURRETS IN THE BACKGROUND. Like come on dude, what is that nonsense?
I’m inclined to agree with you, although the turrets only appear once you eliminate two of his three bodies.
> 2533274880633045;4:
> > 2533274991067213;1:
> > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
>
>
> There were many ways to approach the scarab. Take out the legs with vehicles/rockets etc, blow the back off with a tank/hornet, find a good jump to board it. The warden is just, run around stay alive and hit him in the back or with heavy weapons. You also fight the Scarab three times in Halo 3 (not including the H2 which was different) first on the storm, then on the Ark, and finally the dual scarab battle on the Covenant. How many times do you fight the warden?
Not to mention there were fun tricks you could do with the scarab like super jump and technical drive it. Also it’s fun to mess around In the debris after you blow it up. lol
> 2533274991067213;5:
> > 2533274880633045;4:
> > > 2533274991067213;1:
> > > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
> >
> >
> > There were many ways to approach the scarab. Take out the legs with vehicles/rockets etc, blow the back off with a tank/hornet, find a good jump to board it. The warden is just, run around stay alive and hit him in the back or with heavy weapons. You also fight the Scarab three times in Halo 3 (not including the H2 which was different) first on the storm, then on the Ark, and finally the dual scarab battle on the Covenant. How many times do you fight the warden?
>
>
> Counting individual bodies, nine. Once during Unconfirmed, once during Reunion, once during Battle of Sunaion, thrice during Genesis, thrice during The Breaking.
Right so you have a less interesting boss fight repeated a load more times. Imagine if you had to fight the Heretic with the holograms nine times during H2, do you think people would look on that fondly?
There was also a moment trepidation when you saw the two scarabs drop on the covenant for the first time. I was honestly wondering how I was going to manage to take them both down (Mind you I had completely missed the scorpion and was in a gauss hog) when I saw the hornets land.
Compare that to the Breaking with the three warden battle and my thoughts were “Hope there is some incineration cannon ammo around here.” On normal-heroic the warden isn’t really a challenge, just another body I’ve got to go through.
> 2533274819302824;6:
> > 2533274991067213;1:
> > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
>
>
> First, I don’t necessarily have a problem with a game repeating bosses, in fact some of my favorite games do this. However it would be a good thing for a game to have more than one boss to preserve variety. Dark Souls 2 repeats the Pursuer several times, but the Pursuer is far from being the only boss in the game. Meanwhile in Halo 5 it’s just the Warden each time.
>
> Second, it helps if the dynamics are significantly different each encounter. In Halo 3 you’re fighting the Scarabs in a different manner each time (With Missile Pods, On Foot, and In Hornet). In Halo 5 its kind of like you fight the Warden the same way each encounter, only he just gets more and more bull -Yoink- and unfair each encounter, to the point you’re eventually fighting THREE OF HIM with TURRETS IN THE BACKGROUND. Like come on dude, what is that nonsense?
To quote one of the Warden’s gameplay lines:
“COME ON! That’s not funny!”
> 2533274880633045;9:
> > 2533274991067213;5:
> > > 2533274880633045;4:
> > > > 2533274991067213;1:
> > > > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bo
>
>
> Right so you have a less interesting boss fight repeated a load more times. Imagine if you had to fight the Heretic with the holograms nine times during H2, do you think people would look on that fondly?
>
> There was also a moment trepidation when you saw the two scarabs drop on the covenant for the first time. I was honestly wondering how I was going to manage to take them both down (Mind you I had completely missed the scorpion and was in a gauss hog) when I saw the hornets land.
>
> Compare that to the Breaking with the three warden battle and my thoughts were “Hope there is some incineration cannon ammo around here.” On normal-heroic the warden isn’t really a challenge, just another body I’ve got to go through.
Arm your AI teammates with Binary Rifles, and you’re good to go for at least two of the Warden’s three bodies.
Also, the Heretic spawns a ton of bodies (Like, six at once on Legendary) so that’s not the best example. At least you can eliminate them all by killing him, though.
> 2533274991067213;11:
> > 2533274880633045;9:
> > > 2533274991067213;5:
> > > > 2533274880633045;4:
> > > > > 2533274991067213;1:
> > > > > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bo
> >
> >
> > Right so you have a less interesting boss fight repeated a load more times. Imagine if you had to fight the Heretic with the holograms nine times during H2, do you think people would look on that fondly?
> >
> > There was also a moment trepidation when you saw the two scarabs drop on the covenant for the first time. I was honestly wondering how I was going to manage to take them both down (Mind you I had completely missed the scorpion and was in a gauss hog) when I saw the hornets land.
> >
> > Compare that to the Breaking with the three warden battle and my thoughts were “Hope there is some incineration cannon ammo around here.” On normal-heroic the warden isn’t really a challenge, just another body I’ve got to go through.
>
>
> Arm your AI teammates with Binary Rifles, and you’re good to go for at least two of the Warden’s three bodies.
>
> Also, the Heretic spawns a ton of bodies (Like, six at once on Legendary) so that’s not the best example. At least you can eliminate them all by killing him, though.
If I remember correctly, the most he ever spawns is three holograms plus himself.
> 2533274991067213;1:
> Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bosses of the same type.
Warden: Overpowered, generally not fun to fight against, claushtophobic, with homing locks on everything…hate him. One fight of him was enough.
Scarab: Easy, fun to fight against, could do many things like hijacking or finding ways to get a warthog on top of it, it felt natural in open areas
Not a double standard…just bad game design in H5.
Do you mean fighting the Warden in the Campaign? The dual Scarab fight in Halo 3 was a fantastic battle. There was a myriad of ways in the Scarab Battle:
- Charge it on a Gauss-Hog! - Attack it with a mongoose with a rocket jockey - Kill it with a Hornet - Use a hijacked Banshee - Use a Ghost - Or run at them on foot!My favorite moment was using a hornet to free fall onto a working scarab, then use a hijacked ghost to escape the blast radius!
Yea I actually do feel that they do use Wardens a lot in the game. Probably should decrease the amount of times we play a warden or battle it.
> 2533274991067213;11:
> > 2533274880633045;9:
> > > 2533274991067213;5:
> > > > 2533274880633045;4:
> > > > > 2533274991067213;1:
> > > > > Question: What made the multiple Warden fights in Halo 5 less enjoyable than the multiple Scarab fights in Halo 3? Both games used the same boss multiple times, and the climactic boss battle (not counting 343 Guilty Spark) in both games used multiple bo
> >
> >
> > Right so you have a less interesting boss fight repeated a load more times. Imagine if you had to fight the Heretic with the holograms nine times during H2, do you think people would look on that fondly?
> >
> > There was also a moment trepidation when you saw the two scarabs drop on the covenant for the first time. I was honestly wondering how I was going to manage to take them both down (Mind you I had completely missed the scorpion and was in a gauss hog) when I saw the hornets land.
> >
> > Compare that to the Breaking with the three warden battle and my thoughts were “Hope there is some incineration cannon ammo around here.” On normal-heroic the warden isn’t really a challenge, just another body I’ve got to go through.
>
>
> Arm your AI teammates with Binary Rifles, and you’re good to go for at least two of the Warden’s three bodies.
>
> Also, the Heretic spawns a ton of bodies (Like, six at once on Legendary) so that’s not the best example. At least you can eliminate them all by killing him, though.
Yes, he was a one trick pony so you fought him once. The Warden is a one trick pony so you fight him 7 times plus warzone.
I didn’t mind Warden in the campaign but another boss would’ve been nice. And he does come up allot in warzone. And the triple warden boss in fire fight is complete bull crap
There’s multiple ways to go about destroying a Scarab or Kraken for instance but with the Warden all you really can do is sit in a corner or run around in a loop, he is meant to be a unique encounter which is fine but 9 Warden fights compared to the 1 Kraken fight is underwhelming.
The general idea of what I want to relay has already been mentioned, but I’ll back it up for posterity!
The Warden is a NPC, the only way you can interact with it is by moving around him and shooting it with either conventional weapons or a vehicle.
The Scarab is technically a NPC also, but it is a lot more like a mobile base. What makes it particularly interesting is that it is mobile and can be boarded and traversed while it is moving and it has enemies on it.
To add the cherry on top, the Scarab is, for the most part, unscripted, which is why a lot of people love Halo 3’s Campaign - the sandbox combat which often has all kinds of unexpected, crazy moments happen every time you play.
I don’t think it’s fair to even compare a Scarab to the Kraken. The latter is entirely scripted and doesn’t actively avoid you or even try to kill you, it just relies on the NPC’s aboard (of which there are hardly any) to kill you.
Yeah I think it’s cause the numerous ways you can destroy a scarab or go at destroying a scarab is what keeps it interesting. While the warden is just a bullet sponge with a sword and ball of death haha