Does The Return still matter?

Community Halo Universe
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So after evaluating the statements of 343 and Frank O’Conner and looking back at Glasslands, I have to wonder if The Return, Kevin Grace’s short story in Halo: Evolutions, even matters anymore. I’ll get this out of the way, I thought it set the stage perfectly for post-war Halo.

The Return: From 2552-2559, Elites and Brutes continue to wage war, reveals the dire circumstances the Elites are in technologically and existentially. Sheds some light on the Covenant finally cracking apart, the Prophets disappear and the Brutes fight amongst themselves. Ends on a potential plot point with the shipmaster of the book finding a human research camp that had been destroyed by the Jackals and manages to save one human to answer his questions about the Forerunners. Humanity, I predict, would be busy rebuilding and advancing their tech at this time as well.

However, with the remark that Halo 4 is “set a few years after Halo 3” by Frankie concerns me. He says they have 10 years of the chronology mapped out, but that “few years” line concerns me with what happens in Glasslands. In 2553, something mysterious is attacking Sanghelios. I still wager it’s the Brutes, but the fact Black Box, an AI, is experiencing physical pain is starting to make me question that idea. So if this is the start of Halo 4’s enemies appearance, that presents a bit of a problem for The Return. The Return is 6 years after Glasslands, yet nothing of mention about Glasslands is referenced in it. It’s to be expected from a story written before Glasslands came out, but now that it is, where does The Return fit?

If it is the Halo 4 enemy, an ancient enemy that threatens the universe apparently, it seems odd to have a story set at such an awkward place in the timeline. Anyone got a clue?

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I havent gotten grasslands yet so i am curiouse to find out how grasslands is a major concern…Plus the Ai idea and the years lived for cortana is a major question…

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> The Return: From 2552-2559, Elites and Brutes continue to wage war, reveals the dire circumstances the Elites are in technologically and existentially. Sheds some light on the Covenant finally cracking apart, the Prophets disappear and the Brutes fight amongst themselves. Ends on a potential plot point with the shipmaster of the book finding a human research camp that had been destroyed by the Jackals and manages to save one human to answer his questions about the Forerunners. Humanity, I predict, would be busy rebuilding and advancing their tech at this time as well.

Well there’s a possibility that sometime after Glasslands and it’s upcoming sequels that a proper unsteady truce is organised between humans and elites. In which case this shipmaster might be part of another splinter group, as I’m sure there are many. We don’t know when the Glasslands story arch will finish. It could all be based over a very short space of time, leaving room for The Return to still be relevant in some way.

> However, with the remark that Halo 4 is “set a few years after Halo 3” by Frankie concerns me.

Halo 4 is following the Chief who is most likely not even in the same galaxy as the rest of the UNSC and therefore irrelevant to “local” politics. He may be battling for the fate of the galaxy while the galaxy itself remains oblivious.

> He says they have 10 years of the chronology mapped out, but that “few years” line concerns me with what happens in Glasslands. In 2553, something mysterious is attacking Sanghelios. I still wager it’s the Brutes, but the fact Black Box, an AI, is experiencing physical pain is starting to make me question that idea.

My theory on this is that the attack is from within the temple. Traviss took the time to mention a sealed vault inside Telcam’s temple. It’s never mentioned again after this but it has to be relevant for her to make the reader aware of it. The temple is a Forerunner artefact and the attack seems to occur coincidently with the expansion of the Dyson Sphere, or in other terms, the opening of a shield world. My guess is that The shield world opening sent out a signal to all other Forerunner installations, maybe an “all clear come on out” or a “we’re popping our heads, gives us some cover”. In any case, I believe the attack is the release of sentinels or some other automated system. It could also be that it was a Cryptum and the attack was by War Sphinxes defending the inhabitant from a snoopy and less devout elite intruder. Anyway, just my theory. The point is that it might not have a huge impact on The Return, assuming that the conflict is resolved before the events of the short story.

> So if this is the start of Halo 4’s enemies appearance, that presents a bit of a problem for The Return. The Return is 6 years after Glasslands, yet nothing of mention about Glasslands is referenced in it. It’s to be expected from a story written before Glasslands came out, but now that it is, where does The Return fit?
>
> If it is the Halo 4 enemy, an ancient enemy that threatens the universe apparently, it seems odd to have a story set at such an awkward place in the timeline. Anyone got a clue?

Like I said, all the events may be unconnected enough to not impact the canonicity of The return.

That being said, it could just be a giant cluster -blam- and The Return is doomed to be another loose end with no point.

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Well remember that master chief is still missing in 2600 to the public. As the believe campaign shows this as they still were saying he’s missing. Remember I said public. ONI may have found MC during that time though but kept him a secret like halsey.

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It could still be a possibility that the planet The Return takes place on is still out of communication with the UNSC or anyone else. I believe it was mentioned in Glasslands that some planets probably don’t know the war has ended. If that’s true, there could still be fighting between Covenant factions and Humans. The researchers on the planet could still be out of contact. That might not be a viable option for people to believe or it might not fit, but it’s a possibility.

If they are out of contact, they could have absolutely no idea what’s going on anywhere else in the galaxy.

Edit: Went back at took another look at The Return. I do not think this is the case. The Elite was pretty knowledgable about what was happening in the galaxy. Despite this, I think The Return still has a chance to make a difference. We don’t know what exactly is going to happen in the books following Glasslands. Better to wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

Also, if anything The Return reinforces some things introduced in Glasslands. The discoveries inside Haven by Halsey and the others revealed Forerunner tech, which the Humans on Kholo seemed to know about. Also, the Elite mentions speaking to the gods himself. That could mean direct contact with the Forerunners.

I think it’s best not to jump the gun when thinking about the enemy attacking Sanghelios. It could be Brutes, as you said before. I’m doubting that it is the enemy from Halo 4 because I think that would be an odd reveal for the enemy. We can only wait and see.

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Well just because the Prophets have been defeated that doesn’t mean the brutes will stop fighting persay.

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Of course.

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> > The Return: From 2552-2559, Elites and Brutes continue to wage war, reveals the dire circumstances the Elites are in technologically and existentially. Sheds some light on the Covenant finally cracking apart, the Prophets disappear and the Brutes fight amongst themselves. Ends on a potential plot point with the shipmaster of the book finding a human research camp that had been destroyed by the Jackals and manages to save one human to answer his questions about the Forerunners. Humanity, I predict, would be busy rebuilding and advancing their tech at this time as well.
>
> Well there’s a possibility that sometime after Glasslands and it’s upcoming sequels that a proper unsteady truce is organised between humans and elites. In which case this shipmaster might be part of another splinter group, as I’m sure there are many. We don’t know when the Glasslands story arch will finish. It could all be based over a very short space of time, leaving room for The Return to still be relevant in some way.
>
>
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> > However, with the remark that Halo 4 is “set a few years after Halo 3” by Frankie concerns me.
>
> Halo 4 is following the Chief who is most likely not even in the same galaxy as the rest of the UNSC and therefore irrelevant to “local” politics. He may be battling for the fate of the galaxy while the galaxy itself remains oblivious.
>
>
>
> > He says they have 10 years of the chronology mapped out, but that “few years” line concerns me with what happens in Glasslands. In 2553, something mysterious is attacking Sanghelios. I still wager it’s the Brutes, but the fact Black Box, an AI, is experiencing physical pain is starting to make me question that idea.
>
> My theory on this is that the attack is from within the temple. Traviss took the time to mention a sealed vault inside Telcam’s temple. It’s never mentioned again after this but it has to be relevant for her to make the reader aware of it. The temple is a Forerunner artefact and the attack seems to occur coincidently with the expansion of the Dyson Sphere, or in other terms, the opening of a shield world. My guess is that The shield world opening sent out a signal to all other Forerunner installations, maybe an “all clear come on out” or a “we’re popping our heads, gives us some cover”. In any case, I believe the attack is the release of sentinels or some other automated system. It could also be that it was a Cryptum and the attack was by War Sphinxes defending the inhabitant from a snoopy and less devout elite intruder. Anyway, just my theory. The point is that it might not have a huge impact on The Return, assuming that the conflict is resolved before the events of the short story.
>
>
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> > So if this is the start of Halo 4’s enemies appearance, that presents a bit of a problem for The Return. The Return is 6 years after Glasslands, yet nothing of mention about Glasslands is referenced in it. It’s to be expected from a story written before Glasslands came out, but now that it is, where does The Return fit?
> >
> > If it is the Halo 4 enemy, an ancient enemy that threatens the universe apparently, it seems odd to have a story set at such an awkward place in the timeline. Anyone got a clue?
>
> Like I said, all the events may be unconnected enough to not impact the canonicity of The return.
>
> That being said, it could just be a giant cluster -blam- and The Return is doomed to be another loose end with no point.

All I can say I save this post. I never thought the way that the opening of the Shield World could send a signal to the other Forerunner structure. It is really a nice hypothesis.

The problem of Glasslands ending is, that it is very Halo 2-ish. It’s a big cliffhangar. You only know the location, and that something big happened to Phillips. A lot of stuff could be the cause. Why not liberal Elites that can’t see the stupidness of these conserative Elites anymore. Even the Arbiter do not want to see fight betweens the Elites, there are always some, who think, that killing the dissidents is the best method. Unfortunately it is a method that happened to often in the Human history.

On the other hand I think making a bet that some Forerunner thing is behind all of this is a safe bet.

Btw. Sorry for my English. It isn’t my native language, but I’m trying to improve it.

Edit. #1: Right now I haven’t really answered the question of the topic creator. If I remember right, there is no clue about the time. If I must do a timeline, I always put “The Return” right after Halo 3. This would mean it plays before Halo: Glasslands. But you give me a reason to read it again. :slight_smile:

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Return takes place 2559 I believe.

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…and as far as I was aware, Halo 4 takes place in 2553.

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> …and as far as I was aware, Halo 4 takes place in 2553.

I thought Halo 4 takes place 30 years after Halo 3?

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> I thought Halo 4 takes place 30 years after Halo 3?

Nobody but 343i knows when Halo 4 is set. Could be 2553, 2563, or 3553 for all we know at this post.

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Well, the Return makes some things apparent now with Glasslands to compare it to. It looks like any truce or alliance that Thel and Hood try to make utterly fails by 2559, given the way that Ship Master not only takes a Human hostage but also plans to torture him if he does not co-operate. This is done without any regard for how this action could affect the relations between the two races, so evidently that is not a concern possibly indicating that no truce exists. The Ship Master does not even try to save the Human before finding evidence of the Forerunner artefacts. Trying to save him would better relations, but this is sacrificed initially. Even when he does save him, he just intends to torture him for information. After that, he will kill him otherwise the Human would tell others about how this Ship Master is also after these artefacts which would hamper his search. Which is another point: The Ship Master is stealing this technology from Humanity. He does not think to alert the UNSC about their dig site being attacked, but instead just claims it for himself. All these actions are done with little regard for the relations between the two indicating that, regardless of whether he would support such a truce or not, that no such thing exists. It looks as if they are back at war, especially given how he brings down more soldiers in case more Humans (Or Jackals) show up.

Also, he does not look to be a splinter group. He talks about how his people are lost without anyway to talk to their Gods. What Gods? Glasslands makes it quite clear that the belief is quickly diminishing due to the reasons that the Forerunners are either dead as Thel says, or neglectful Gods not worthy of attention. Now the Ship Master makes it look as if his people are going back to it. So if the Elites go back to worshipping the Forerunners, then where is Thel? Does this mean that 'Telcam eventually wins in the end?

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The Shipmaster do mention he comes back to remember the lies of the prophets, he never mention anything that happened since the Human - Covenant war, I think 343 forgot about this when they came out with Glasslands, but Frankie said they will modify the Halo universe as much as they need, to expand the Halo universe, Which I find unnecesary since there’s a lot of black holes in the Human - Covenant war, a lot of missing Spartans and battles still not well detailed, such as the 5 years of the Harvest Campaign, the mistery of the Missing Spartans in Halo Wars, Gray team and Black Team, the missing S-III squads that left planet Onyx before Ghosts of Onyx events, the fate of Jun and why The Covenant tried to kidnnap Dr. Halsey, but still they decided to leave that all behind and go ahead.

And it’s really hard that 343 will explain this.

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> The Shipmaster do mention he comes back to remember the lies of the prophets, he never mention anything that happened since the Human - Covenant war, I think 343 forgot about this when they came out with Glasslands, but Frankie said they will modify the Halo universe as much as they need, to expand the Halo universe, Which I find unnecesary since there’s a lot of black holes in the Human - Covenant war, a lot of missing Spartans and battles still not well detailed, such as the 5 years of the Harvest Campaign, the mistery of the Missing Spartans in Halo Wars, Gray team and Black Team, the missing S-III squads that left planet Onyx before Ghosts of Onyx events, the fate of Jun and why The Covenant tried to kidnnap Dr. Halsey, but still they decided to leave that all behind and go ahead.
>
> And it’s really hard that 343 will explain this.

Yeah I totally agree. There are so many parts of the Halo universe that could be explored and could form the basis of a new trilogy without having to trample over the existing canon to do so.

I really hope this new trilogy isn’t like the second Star Wars trilogy.

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I came across this and I had a thought.

Would it be possible for the Sangheili to adopt a new religion to replace that of the Great Journey? Or is it too deeply embedded in their culture to form their own gods and beliefs?

Seeing as how the Shipmaster is searching for a cause to his actions, I was thinking that a new religion might be able to mend the damage.