Does the hardcore base want to move back to H3

I loved H3 when it came out it was the best thing since H2 obviously. That being said the H5 multiplayer experience is exactly what I was looking for coming from H4 no more loadouts and everything is put in perfect balance. Going back to H3 theres that perfect balance but I feel like I’m stuck in mud and I miss the hit markers. I miss the advantage of being adept in movement in H5 if its mastered it is a big one.

I’m hopeful for the next iteration of halo and I hope we dont take too many steps back to cater to those that seem to hate the movement of new halo as a long time halo player I am happy with where halo 5 went regardless of a drop in popularity it feels like the best arena multiplayer around. Thoughts?

I’m not a fan of the newer play style (Halo 5) but I definitely do not want a retread of the older style (Halo 3). In my opinion my least favorite multiplayer is Halo 5, but obviously I know many players like you enjoy it.

It’s difficult to create a Halo experience that everyone will love. Mind you Halo 3 was received with anger initially in regards to the Battle Rifle being projectile and not hit-scan like its Halo 2 counterpart, as well as the added equipment. For me, Halo 5 was way too fast in movement and I don’t really care for the spartan abilities.

As much as I prefer the older Halo MP to the newer ones, I do 100% agree that Infinite should NOT go back to older methods, but rather try to find a balance between the older and newer gamestyles. It’s an extremely difficult task to achieve, but here’s hoping 343 finds that sweet spot that a majority of the fanbase will love.

In my opinion the biggest game changer is sprint. If they took that and ground pound out I’d be happy, the other H5 abilities aren’t a big issue for me.

I don’t believe there’s a happy middle ground here. They should either cut the H5 abilities or stick with them for Infinite. I personally want them gone, but I’m not opposed to other movement options so long as they add to the game in a meaningful way.

A lot of people claim the fallacious argument that Halo 5 broke a lot of “core mechanics” of Halo, which is definitely not true. It’s my opinion that there is basically no such thing as the “core Halo mechanics” and here’s why.

  • It all started with Halo 2 and the way it broke the so called “core formula.” If you’re as old as me, you remember anxiously awaiting the release of Halo 2 after playing hours upon hours of Halo 1 campaign and multiplayer. Obviously, the standard was set very high because of how good Halo 1 was, and yet, contrary to popular belief, when it was released there were sooo many disappointed people. When my brothers and I first played Halo 2, we were dumbfounded by how severely they changed the grenades, the sniper, the rockets, and pretty much every weapon. But the biggest no no Halo 2 did was completely stripping the legendary Halo pistol of all it’s aesthetic appeal and power. I cannot tell you how mad I was that the most beloved weapon by many in Halo 1 was replaced with useless, ugly, peashooter. That along side the fact that they replaced the beefy, gasoline powered assault rifle with a popcorn soundin’ squirt gun, the SMG. In my opinion, Halo 2 could have easily been seen as one of the games that broke the “core formula” of Halo by taking away the power and sheen from all the original weapons and replacing them with “balanced” weapons. - Then we had Halo 3, which aimed to fix a lot of the mistakes that Halo 2 made, such as the super overpowered sword, the all mighty “noob combo,” polish up glitches such as super jumping and BXR exploits. I’ll admit, it pretty much did all of that, but one of the most controversial things it did was use projectile weapons instead of hit-scan like the previous two Halos. This resulted in thousands of players induced in rage induced episodes that consists of mic abuse and messages containing all kinds of racial slurs. Bloodshots, shots to the head unregistered, the worst and most unreliable BR in history. Of course the game worked fine if you just learned how to get around all the ridiculous loopholes to jump through to just have a fair, non-host influenced, and balanced match. If you ask me, Halo 3 broke the “core formula” in many ways. That, and all the players using aimbots and flying warthogs cannot be forgiven. - Of course we have Halo Reach and Halo 4. I put these two games in the same bullet simply because they made very similar mistakes as each other. For one, there was no actual skill ranking system. All the symbol next to your name represented was how often you played, not how often you played well, so obviously that resulted in a very casual and overly lax experience that, in my opinion, broke the Halo formula badly. And now we gotta talk about the load-outs. Do I really need to explain how badly armor lock, spawning with camo, a regen field, any weapon you want, etc, broke the Halo formula? One things Halo 1, 2, and 3 always did no matter what was Equal Starts. That’s everyone who first spawns into the game gets the same primary weapon, the same side arm, and the same type and amount of grenades. Period. How on Earth there are people who say that Halo Reach was the pinnacle of Halo games and gameplay is beyond me. Obviously they haven’t been spammed enough by armor lock, or maybe they are the ones doing the spamming.

Needless to say, Halo 5 also did it’s fair share of “breaking the formula,” but that’s exactly my point. Each Halo game is unique and different in their own special ways, so saying that the next Halo game or any beyond have to revolve around the “core formula” of Halo is just a vague and redundant argument repeated by rage Halo clickbaiters on Youtube and people who haven’t given Halo 5 a chance and just jump on the bandwagon that it’s not a “true Halo game.”

Of course, we all want Halo Infinite to resemble and feel like a Halo game, but like OP said, we don’t need to be going back in time just to appeal to those who think games should just be a copy and paste version of something that was good.

> 2535441777257585;5:
> A lot of people claim the fallacious argument that Halo 5 broke a lot of “core mechanics” of Halo, which is definitely not true. It’s my opinion that there is basically no such thing as the “core Halo mechanics” and here’s why.
>
>
> - It all started with Halo 2 and the way it broke the so called “core formula.” If you’re as old as me, you remember anxiously awaiting the release of Halo 2 after playing hours upon hours of Halo 1 campaign and multiplayer. Obviously, the standard was set very high because of how good Halo 1 was, and yet, contrary to popular belief, when it was released there were sooo many disappointed people. When my brothers and I first played Halo 2, we were dumbfounded by how severely they changed the grenades, the sniper, the rockets, and pretty much every weapon. But the biggest no no Halo 2 did was completely stripping the legendary Halo pistol of all it’s aesthetic appeal and power. I cannot tell you how mad I was that the most beloved weapon by many in Halo 1 was replaced with useless, ugly, peashooter. That along side the fact that they replaced the beefy, gasoline powered assault rifle with a popcorn soundin’ squirt gun, the SMG. In my opinion, Halo 2 could have easily been seen as one of the games that broke the “core formula” of Halo by taking away the power and sheen from all the original weapons and replacing them with “balanced” weapons. - Then we had Halo 3, which aimed to fix a lot of the mistakes that Halo 2 made, such as the super overpowered sword, the all mighty “noob combo,” polish up glitches such as super jumping and BXR exploits. I’ll admit, it pretty much did all of that, but one of the most controversial things it did was use projectile weapons instead of hit-scan like the previous two Halos. This resulted in thousands of players induced in rage induced episodes that consists of mic abuse and messages containing all kinds of racial slurs. Bloodshots, shots to the head unregistered, the worst and most unreliable BR in history. Of course the game worked fine if you just learned how to get around all the ridiculous loopholes to jump through to just have a fair, non-host influenced, and balanced match. If you ask me, Halo 3 broke the “core formula” in many ways. That, and all the players using aimbots and flying warthogs cannot be forgiven. - Of course we have Halo Reach and Halo 4. I put these two games in the same bullet simply because they made very similar mistakes as each other. For one, there was no actual skill ranking system. All the symbol next to your name represented was how often you played, not how often you played well, so obviously that resulted in a very casual and overly lax experience that, in my opinion, broke the Halo formula badly. And now we gotta talk about the load-outs. Do I really need to explain how badly armor lock, spawning with camo, a regen field, any weapon you want, etc, broke the Halo formula? One things Halo 1, 2, and 3 always did no matter what was Equal Starts. That’s everyone who first spawns into the game gets the same primary weapon, the same side arm, and the same type and amount of grenades. Period. How on Earth there are people who say that Halo Reach was the pinnacle of Halo games and gameplay is beyond me. Obviously they haven’t been spammed enough by armor lock, or maybe they are the ones doing the spamming.
>
> Needless to say, Halo 5 also did it’s fair share of “breaking the formula,” but that’s exactly my point. Each Halo game is unique and different in their own special ways, so saying that the next Halo game or any beyond have to revolve around the “core formula” of Halo is just a vague and redundant argument repeated by rage Halo clickbaiters on Youtube and people who haven’t given Halo 5 a chance and just jump on the bandwagon that it’s not a “true Halo game.”
>
> Of course, we all want Halo Infinite to resemble and feel like a Halo game, but like OP said, we don’t need to be going back in time just to appeal to those who think games should just be a copy and paste version of something that was good.

And since reach the franchise has been going farther and farther away from the original trilogy mechanics which has rubbed people the wrong way and driven off a huge amount of the former playerbase

> 2533275031939856;3:
> In my opinion the biggest game changer is sprint. If they took that and ground pound out I’d be happy, the other H5 abilities aren’t a big issue for me.

I personally love the sprint but it has to be sprint for everyone and it makes it balanced, but I guess its subjective.

I dislike the implication that either way of to carry on from where Halo 5 left, or that we have to go back to Halo 3. Halo 3 is in many ways the worst example of classic Halo gameplay. Halo CE and 2 are better in various ways, but even they have issues I wouldn’t want to face in a new Halo game. Just because we want to move away from Halo 5 doesn’t mean we want to go back to Halo 3, or any previous Halo game for that matter. There is a way of having a Halo game without Spartan Abilities that isn’t like any particular Halo game.

> 2535441777257585;5:
> I’ll admit, it pretty much did all of that, but one of the most controversial things it did was use projectile weapons instead of hit-scan like the previous two Halos.

Halo CE also used projectile weapons. It was just that few people noticed because there were less chances of bad hit registration in a LAN environment.

I think sprint, clamber and thrust need to stay. Spartan charge and ground pound need to go away and never return.
Either that or just return to a Halo 2 style of play, with the Halo 5 Magnum and no button exploits.
The Magnum needs to stay, the BR and DMR need to be brought back to pre-nerf status.

In my opinion the current HCS settings are as close to perfect as we’ve had it since forever.
Nothing is broken, everything is balanced. Again, apart from the BR and DMR not being able to keep up with the Magnum, so just buff those back.

I can’t speak for the people who play a lot of Social, but as a avid fan of Arena I can say that the latest HCS settings need to be the Default across that playlist moving forward.

> 2533275027249423;7:
> > 2533275031939856;3:
> > In my opinion the biggest game changer is sprint. If they took that and ground pound out I’d be happy, the other H5 abilities aren’t a big issue for me.
>
> I personally love the sprint but it has to be sprint for everyone and it makes it balanced, but I guess its subjective.

I liked H5 over H4 and Reach sprint, but for a Halo game I think it changes too much of Halo at its core.

> 2533275027249423;1:
> Going back to H3 theres that perfect balance but I feel like I’m stuck in mud and I miss the hit markers. I miss the advantage of being adept in movement in H5 if its mastered it is a big one.

All you have to do to not make it feel that way is increase the FOV (which games since Halo 3: ODST already did) and increase the base movement speed (which Halo 5 already did).

So many of the negative aspects have been solved before we even began. And it’s clearly not a copy-paste, because the negative aspects are gone.

> 2533274833081329;11:
> [
> All you have to do to not make it feel that way is increase the FOV (which games since Halo 3: ODST already did) and increase the base movement speed (which Halo 5 already did).

I’m not sure about 4/5 (5 feels quite narrow tbh…) but I’m fairly certain that ODST had the highest FOV, followed by HCE.

> 2535427838849776;9:
> I think sprint, clamber and thrust need to stay. Spartan charge and ground pound need to go away and never return.
> Either that or just return to a Halo 2 style of play, with the Halo 5 Magnum and no button exploits.
> The Magnum needs to stay, the BR and DMR need to be brought back to pre-nerf status.
>
> In my opinion the current HCS settings are as close to perfect as we’ve had it since forever.
> Nothing is broken, everything is balanced. Again, apart from the BR and DMR not being able to keep up with the Magnum, so just buff those back.
>
> I can’t speak for the people who play a lot of Social, but as a avid fan of Arena I can say that the latest HCS settings need to be the Default across that playlist moving forward.

I feel like I would agree to this completely, using the current HCS as a platform to build off of, it is perfect at the moment.
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> 2533274801973487;12:
> > 2533274833081329;11:
> > [
> > All you have to do to not make it feel that way is increase the FOV (which games since Halo 3: ODST already did) and increase the base movement speed (which Halo 5 already did).
>
> I’m not sure about 4/5 (5 feels quite narrow tbh…) but I’m fairly certain that ODST had the highest FOV, followed by HCE.

Halo 2, Reach, and 5 are both 78 degrees, and I believe so is Halo 4. Definitely better than the 70 in Halo 3, but hardly ideal. ODST is 88 and CE is 86. This progression makes it pretty obvious why people see Halo 3 as the “slow” game.

I think 90 degrees is the minimum aceptable field of view, but really, in this day and age people should be able to set it for their preference within a range that goes at least up to 120.

A lot of people don’t like AMM, me included, but that doesn’t mean we want a H3 clone… I still don’t get where this is coming from. Not to mention that H5 did a lot of things badly, from story, level design to AI. So while movement mechanics are the main issue here imho, a lot of things need to change or to get better in Hi. Personally I hope to see this generic changes as a start:

> - HW2, Reach or H2A art style for our alien friends (full trust in the new director and his team!) - Framerates, physics and AI over pure graphical impact - More vehicle focused gameplay - No AMM as base functions | We need some other type of innovation that compliments the fundamentals of Halo instead of changing them [Ceramic Pigs] - Reintroduce SA and equipment as limited power ups on the map - 4 player splitscreen for every mode (including campaign and ff) [Ceramic Pigs] - More level interaction (destructible map parts and ground, movable objects, working radios and TVs, holograms, you can open windows, break lights and glass, use man canons, grav lifts, deactivate light bridges… The world needs to feel alive!) - ADS is just an alternative zooming animation without mobility or aim assist effects. Player can choose between zoom and smart-scope for every single weapon - Dual wielding with secondary functions like stun or EMP (balance between power and functionality) - H2 style BR (in terms of looks and functionality) replacing H5 BR (instead of coexisting) [Ceramic Pigs] - You can shoot and throw grenades trough teleporters [AMERICAN SAY10] - Full personalization of the HUD:
> - Color - Size - Position - Reticle for every gun - Helmet on screen - Left or right handed - FOV - Opacity & fade-out
> - Reach like UI with cross list menues instead of image boxes and slow loading cards - And of course: EVERY MODE WORKS OFFLINE! :relaxed:

And here on page 2 are my campaign, multiplayer and forge wishes: >>LINK

Point is you can inovate and change a lot around without forcing advanced movements into an arena shooter!

I’m probably in the minority, but I enjoy the gameplay from Halo 5 over halo 3. H5 just didn’t do as well with the map design imo. That being said, I do still enjoy the classic play style, so I will be happy with whatever direction Infinite takes

To be honest I don’t want a H3 clone, but I do want sprint gone and everything we can use placed on the map (not in loadouts, etc.). I love what Halo used to be, both casually and competitively, and I want them to use that formula again.

Halo 3 is no more a “step back” than Halo 5 is a “step forward.” Game design isn’t a linear path, it branches in all sorts of directions. The most radical change in the gaming landscape is the jump from 2D to 3D and even then it is not like everyone stopped making 2D games. 2D games are not automatically “inferior” compared to their 3D brethren, different games for different audiences.

The changes to Halo from Reach onward don’t follow any sort of design trend that come close to being a true paradigm shift in game design for anyone to really claim they are “the next step.” Nothing about the core design(animations, graphics, sound are a separate discussion) of CE-Halo 3 is inherently “outdated” it is just different. Older =/= outdated.

Bringing back classic Halo does not mean we have to be stuck with Halo 3’s numerous flaws, classic Halo was never perfect and as a result there was so much room to grow. Even putting that aside it makes me laugh whenever people talk about “Halo X.5” given that the most successful Halo game(H3) was already effectively “Halo 2.5” in terms of gameplay. It wasn’t like equipment or removable turrets were the difference makers. Halo 3’s success was built on its feature set, not its core gameplay alterations. Forge, theater, 4 player online co-op, campaign scoring, terminals, skulls(as a proper feature rather than easter egg), file share, all on top of usual sequel additions of new maps, modes, weapons, etc. These were the real selling points, and I would argue that major gameplay “evolution” is the least important thing for a long running series.