In The Fall of Reach, it’s mentioned that John has seen Jackals fight with their bare hands rather than pick up human weapons. I believe something similar is said of the Elites in Ghosts of Onyx, and I think something else is mentioned in The Cole Protcol. But in Halo 2, there are Brutes using M90 shotguns and stockpiling Human weapons, and an Elite uses an M6D pistol to execute a human prisoner in The Flood. So is it a case of some Covenant considering it shameful to use human weapons while others are fine with it. or was it strictly forbidden by the Covenant, with Truth giving the Brutes permission in Halo 2, and the Elite in The Flood disobeying orders?
You answered your own question. Yes, it is shameful but it is allowed, and once they left the Covenant, the Elites under the ARbiter clearly stopped caring (plus Arbiter and Johnson forcing each side to use each other’s weapons). Brutes have never really cared about it, they’re more about faith in the Great Journey and don’t treat a lot of the stuff within the religion with the reverence the other species do.
Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> 2535417096179468;3:
> Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> 2533274850870800;4:
> > 2535417096179468;3:
> > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
>
> That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
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> > 2533274850870800;4:
> > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> >
> > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
>
> Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
I know.
I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
> 2533274850870800;6:
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> > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > >
> > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> >
> > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
>
> I know.
>
> I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
>
> It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
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> > > > 2533274850870800;4:
> > > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > > >
> > > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> > >
> > > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
> >
> > I know.
> >
> > I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
> >
> > It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
>
> Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
> That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
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> > 2533274849782428;7:
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> > > > 2533274838418174;5:
> > > > > 2533274850870800;4:
> > > > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> > > >
> > > > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
> > >
> > > I know.
> > >
> > > I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
> > >
> > > It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
> >
> > Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
> > That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
>
> In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
That’s not true. The Sangheili are fiercely combative and prone to martial law. Jiralhanae are overly aggressive and rely on alphas to lead their packs. Unggoy are seemingly cowardly, but find strength in numbers. Kig Yar are incredibly independent to the point of being anarchists (the only reason they have remained loyal the Covenant for so long has been the promise of treasure and wealth). San Shayuum are cunning and political. Lekgolo are hive minded. As are the Yanme’e. The only way they can be considered mono-cultural would be through their shared religion. Otherwise, they are each extremely distinct cultures.
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> > > > > 2533274838418174;5:
> > > > > > 2533274850870800;4:
> > > > > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
> > > >
> > > > I know.
> > > >
> > > > I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
> > > >
> > > > It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
> > >
> > > Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
> > > That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
> >
> > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
>
> That’s not true. The Sangheili are fiercely combative and prone to martial law. Jiralhanae are overly aggressive and rely on alphas to lead their packs. Unggoy are seemingly cowardly, but find strength in numbers. Kig Yar are incredibly independent to the point of being anarchists (the only reason they have remained loyal the Covenant for so long has been the promise of treasure and wealth). San Shayuum are cunning and political. Lekgolo are hive minded. As are the Yanme’e. The only way they can be considered mono-cultural would be through their shared religion. Otherwise, they are each extremely distinct cultures.
By “Covenant races”, I was referring to all the different races that make up the Covenant. And they have the monocultures you just described - all Sangheili are martial, all Jiralhanae have pack mentality, etc…
Not if they can help it.
the Flood on the other hand, will use anything to get the job done.
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> > > > > > 2533274838418174;5:
> > > > > > > 2533274850870800;4:
> > > > > > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > > > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > > > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
> > > >
> > > > Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
> > > > That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
> > >
> > > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
> >
> > That’s not true. The Sangheili are fiercely combative and prone to martial law. Jiralhanae are overly aggressive and rely on alphas to lead their packs. Unggoy are seemingly cowardly, but find strength in numbers. Kig Yar are incredibly independent to the point of being anarchists (the only reason they have remained loyal the Covenant for so long has been the promise of treasure and wealth). San Shayuum are cunning and political. Lekgolo are hive minded. As are the Yanme’e. The only way they can be considered mono-cultural would be through their shared religion. Otherwise, they are each extremely distinct cultures.
>
> By “Covenant races”, I was referring to all the different races that make up the Covenant. And they have the monocultures you just described - all Sangheili are martial, all Jiralhanae have pack mentality, etc…
Oh gotcha. Thought you meant the Covenant as a whole and not the individual client species. Then yeah I agree with you that they are mostly portrayed as monocultures. The extended lore has given some depth to them, but for the most part they are shown as far less diverse than humanity.
> 2535417096179468;3:
> Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
This also happens in Reach. The AA gun on Sword Base has a Warthog with a working turret on the back, the Elites will use that against you.
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> > > > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> > > >
> > > > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
> > >
> > > I know.
> > >
> > > I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
> > >
> > > It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
> >
> > Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
> > That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
>
> In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
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> > > > > 2533274838418174;5:
> > > > > > 2533274850870800;4:
> > > > > > > 2535417096179468;3:
> > > > > > > Yes they do. Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant did when they were around because they were low on supplies at certain times.
> > > > > > > Also in Halo 5 gameplay, Covenant units will even operate UNSC machine gun turrets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant, which has different beliefs to the Covenant my question was about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which again, you answered your own question within your post.
> > > >
> > > > I know.
> > > >
> > > > I am curious, though, what’s the source that confirms my idea as canon? I haven’t come across it before. I always just assumed that the Brutes were acting under orders from Truth when they committed “heresy”, similar to Reth’s operation in the Rubble in The Cole Protocol.
> > > >
> > > > It’s also interesting that Jackals would be unwilling to use Human weapons. They’ve always been portrayed as nonbelievers who simply joined the Covenant out of pragmatism, so I guess that there are some Jackals who do actually believe, and are willing to die rather than compromise their beliefs.
> > >
> > > Individual members of an intelligent species have differing opinions and beliefs, wow such a novel concept.
> > > That’s one major thing I dislike when people make assumptions about alien races. They always view them as some sort of homogeneous culture who all act the same way. Hilarious considering the only intelligent life we currently know of in the universe can’t even agree on which side of the road to drive on.
> >
> > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
>
> Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
> The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
> Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
> The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
> Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
> I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
Differences in political and religious beliefs aren’t the same as cultural differences. A white Australian left-wing atheist has the same culture as a white Australian right-wing Christian. The only example you’ve cited is the cultural differences in the Ussans caused by 3000 years of isolation.
> 2533274850870800;15:
> > 2533274849782428;14:
> > > 2533274850870800;8:
> > > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
> >
> > Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
> > The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
> > Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
> > The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
> > Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
> > I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
>
> Differences in political and religious beliefs aren’t the same as cultural differences. A white Australian left-wing atheist has the same culture as a white Australian right-wing Christian. The only example you’ve cited is the cultural differences in the Ussans caused by 3000 years of isolation.
That’s where I stop taking you seriously. Comparing a Caucasian Aussie against another is blatantly biased, considering there are many people of Asian, Middle Eastern and Aboriginal descent as well. You gonna tell me they all have the exact same culture too?
As someone from a small, harmonous, multi-ethnic country, I feel that your comment reeks of ignorance.
> 2533274849782428;16:
> > 2533274850870800;15:
> > > 2533274849782428;14:
> > > > 2533274850870800;8:
> > > > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
> > >
> > > Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
> > > The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
> > > Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
> > > The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
> > > Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
> > > I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
> >
> > Differences in political and religious beliefs aren’t the same as cultural differences. A white Australian left-wing atheist has the same culture as a white Australian right-wing Christian. The only example you’ve cited is the cultural differences in the Ussans caused by 3000 years of isolation.
>
> That’s where I stop taking you seriously. Comparing a Caucasian Aussie against another is blatantly biased, considering there are many people of Asian, Middle Eastern and Aboriginal descent as well. You gonna tell me they all have the exact same culture too?
> As someone from a small, harmonous, multi-ethnic country, I feel that your comment reeks of ignorance.
I compared two white Australians because I do recognise that there are cultural differences between different ethnic groups. For the purposes of a comparison with Halo, comparing a white Australian with a middle eastern Australian wouldn’t work as an analogy for a Abiding Truth Sangheili and a Swords Sangheili. The difference between the humans would be ethnic, while the difference between the Sangheili is political and religious. So the only meaningful comparison would be two ethnically identical humans with different political and religious beliefs. I used the examples I did because I have personal experience with those beliefs within that ethnicity.
I’m also from a small multi-ethnic country, and I embrace all the cultures my country contains. Hell, I share my cultural perspectives university class with people from Korea and the Middle East. I don’t know why you’d think I’m some kind of white supremacist, simply for saying “people from the same ethnic group are from the same ethnic group”.
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> > > 2533274850870800;15:
> > > > 2533274849782428;14:
> > > > > 2533274850870800;8:
> > > > > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
> > > >
> > > > Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
> > > > The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
> > > > Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
> > > > The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
> > > > Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
> > > > I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
> > >
> > > Differences in political and religious beliefs aren’t the same as cultural differences. A white Australian left-wing atheist has the same culture as a white Australian right-wing Christian. The only example you’ve cited is the cultural differences in the Ussans caused by 3000 years of isolation.
> >
> > That’s where I stop taking you seriously. Comparing a Caucasian Aussie against another is blatantly biased, considering there are many people of Asian, Middle Eastern and Aboriginal descent as well. You gonna tell me they all have the exact same culture too?
> > As someone from a small, harmonous, multi-ethnic country, I feel that your comment reeks of ignorance.
>
> I compared two white Australians because I do recognise that there are cultural differences between different ethnic groups. For the purposes of a comparison with Halo, comparing a white Australian with a middle eastern Australian wouldn’t work as an analogy for a Abiding Truth Sangheili and a Swords Sangheili. The difference between the humans would be ethnic, while the difference between the Sangheili is political and religious. So the only meaningful comparison would be two ethnically identical humans with different political and religious beliefs. I used the examples I did because I have personal experience with those beliefs within that ethnicity.
That’s where you are mistaken, as Sangheili have been confirmed in canon to have different ethnicities. They are called phenotypes, the most significant example being the Hesduros Sangheili who make up the majority of Jul 'Mdama’s Covenant. So your Caucasian v Caucasian example is inherently flawed.
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> > > > > > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
> > > > > The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
> > > > > Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
> > > > > The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
> > > > > Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
> > > > > I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
> > > >
> > > > Differences in political and religious beliefs aren’t the same as cultural differences. A white Australian left-wing atheist has the same culture as a white Australian right-wing Christian. The only example you’ve cited is the cultural differences in the Ussans caused by 3000 years of isolation.
> > >
> > > That’s where I stop taking you seriously. Comparing a Caucasian Aussie against another is blatantly biased, considering there are many people of Asian, Middle Eastern and Aboriginal descent as well. You gonna tell me they all have the exact same culture too?
> > > As someone from a small, harmonous, multi-ethnic country, I feel that your comment reeks of ignorance.
> >
> > I compared two white Australians because I do recognise that there are cultural differences between different ethnic groups. For the purposes of a comparison with Halo, comparing a white Australian with a middle eastern Australian wouldn’t work as an analogy for a Abiding Truth Sangheili and a Swords Sangheili. The difference between the humans would be ethnic, while the difference between the Sangheili is political and religious. So the only meaningful comparison would be two ethnically identical humans with different political and religious beliefs. I used the examples I did because I have personal experience with those beliefs within that ethnicity.
>
> That’s where you are mistaken, as Sangheili have been confirmed in canon to have different ethnicities. They are called phenotypes, the most significant example being the Hesduros Sangheili who make up the majority of Jul 'Mdama’s Covenant. So your Caucasian v Caucasian example is inherently flawed.
Those are genetic differences, not ethnic differences. According to Jary & Jary, an ethnic group is a cultural group with a distinct history. Genetics have nothing to do with it. Human ethnic groups simply tend to share genetic traits because their ethnic group emerged in a region where those genetic traits were common - for example, the Anglo-Saxon ethnicity emerged in a place where people had white skin.
You’re confusing ethnicity with the pseudoscientific concept of race, which Jary & Jary define as a scientifically discredited concept that simply refers to cultural and social assumptions.
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> > > > > > > In the canon, we’ve only ever seen the Covenant races as monocultural.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let’s see, the Ussans were so monocultural that they completely rejected the Covenant and lived seperately for 3000 years. Not to mention the tremendous split between the Sangheili who ally themselves with humanity and those who still want to exterminate us. Special mention goes to mercenaries like Ayit 'Sevi.
> > > > > > The Jiralhanae were divided into 2 main skeins, the Rh’tol and Vheiloth. Cultural conflict between them escalated into The First Immolation which almost destroyed the species.
> > > > > > Although Kig-Yar seem to prefer governing themselves in smaller groups, there are some like Chol Von who want a united navy and clans to protect Kig-Yar interests. Many were also capable of co-existing peacefully with humans, like Reth, his subordinates and Nor Fel. Kig-Yar snipers assigned the Fleet of Particular Justice displayed uncharacteristic bravery in their valiant defense against the Flood on Installation 04.
> > > > > > The very foundation of the Covenant was because of the cultural conflict between the San’Shyuum Stoics and Reformists over Forerunner artifacts. Although most modern San’Shyuum are portrayed as cunning and traitorous, some were good natured and had honour, like Mken 'Scre’ah’ben, his descendant Zo Resken; and Tem’Bhetek (after finding out the truth).
> > > > > > Even the Yanme’e, by far the most eusocial Covenant species, have a sizable number of Unmutuals who are banished from their hives and used as slave labour.
> > > > > > I haven’t even mentioned the dozens of independent factions that have their own beliefs and mindsets like the Keepers of the One Freedom, The Banished, Sali 'Nyon’s Covenant and the Servants of the Abiding Truth.
> > > > >
> > > > > Differences in political and religious beliefs aren’t the same as cultural differences. A white Australian left-wing atheist has the same culture as a white Australian right-wing Christian. The only example you’ve cited is the cultural differences in the Ussans caused by 3000 years of isolation.
> > > >
> > > > That’s where I stop taking you seriously. Comparing a Caucasian Aussie against another is blatantly biased, considering there are many people of Asian, Middle Eastern and Aboriginal descent as well. You gonna tell me they all have the exact same culture too?
> > > > As someone from a small, harmonous, multi-ethnic country, I feel that your comment reeks of ignorance.
> > >
> > > I compared two white Australians because I do recognise that there are cultural differences between different ethnic groups. For the purposes of a comparison with Halo, comparing a white Australian with a middle eastern Australian wouldn’t work as an analogy for a Abiding Truth Sangheili and a Swords Sangheili. The difference between the humans would be ethnic, while the difference between the Sangheili is political and religious. So the only meaningful comparison would be two ethnically identical humans with different political and religious beliefs. I used the examples I did because I have personal experience with those beliefs within that ethnicity.
> >
> > That’s where you are mistaken, as Sangheili have been confirmed in canon to have different ethnicities. They are called phenotypes, the most significant example being the Hesduros Sangheili who make up the majority of Jul 'Mdama’s Covenant. So your Caucasian v Caucasian example is inherently flawed.
>
> Those are genetic differences, not ethnic differences. According to Jary & Jary, an ethnic group is a cultural group with a distinct history. Genetics have nothing to do with it. Human ethnic groups simply tend to share genetic traits because their ethnic group emerged in a region where those genetic traits were common - for example, the Anglo-Saxon ethnicity emerged in a place where people had white skin.
>
> You’re confusing ethnicity with the pseudoscientific concept of race, which Jary & Jary define as a scientifically discredited concept that simply refers to cultural and social assumptions.
Phenotype isn’t strictly about genetics, you’re confusing it with the related term Genotype.
Your phenotype is a description of your actual physical characteristics. This includes straightforward visible characteristics like your height and skin/eye color, but also your overall health, your disease history, and even your behavior and general disposition. Most phenotypes are influenced by both your genotype and by the unique circumstances in which you have lived your life, including everything that has ever happened to you. We often refer to these two inputs as “nature,” the unique genome you carry, and “nurture,” the environment in which you have lived your life, AKA the culture you were brought up in which is heavily influenced by ethnicity.
TLDR: Different phenotypes = Different upbringing under different cultures
Anyway, I can see that we’ve reached the point where we’re arguing about technicalities and semantics wrapped up in walls of text now. You seem like a nice fellow so let’s politely agree to disagree and leave it at that. We’ve already derailed the topic enough as it is.