> 2533274816788253;4:
> I think he looks up to him as all Spartans probably do. He is the best Spartan ever. He pretty much saved humanity. But if you watched Nightfall and listened about Locke he is the type to carry out a mission no matter what even if he doesn’t like it.
He’s the luckiest, not the best. Plenty of others are better than him, like Kurt 051.
I wouldn’t know cause mostly every line each character said in the campaign was just like **"**Whot?"
> 2535437652903765;11:
> > 2533274849069111;10:
> > He should look up to Chief because Spartan II’s are giants compared to IV’s, but 343i felt bad for baby Locke and gave him a boost up.
>
> The image behind the -IIs is giant compared to that of the -IVs, but when it comes to physical size, the -IVs are about the same.
issa joke
> 2533274812652989;9:
> > 2533274911200879;7:
> > Locke looks up to every other human alive because he knows he’s such a bad character 
>
> Nice to see the community still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to analyzing characters.
Actually I do know how analyze a character and in my opinion Locke is a bad one.
> 2533274818737568;13:
> > 2533274816788253;4:
> > I think he looks up to him as all Spartans probably do. He is the best Spartan ever. He pretty much saved humanity. But if you watched Nightfall and listened about Locke he is the type to carry out a mission no matter what even if he doesn’t like it.
>
> He’s the luckiest, not the best. Plenty of others are better than him, like Kurt 051.
he is the luckiest, but is also the best Halsey and cortana both say so they say he isn’t the biggest the strongest the smartest but he is the best this is also compared to the IIs compared to the 3s and 4s all IIs are a cut above
I don’t know if you guys remember or not but throughout the campaign locke always mention s respect for Chief. Like on Evacuation when he says blue team is a family, and once they arrive on Genesis too Locke asks politely with “sir” and such.
> 2533274800005275;3:
> This was after all, an ONI hitman, so Its easy to jump the gun that he would be this merciless bounty hunter as the trailer implies.
I never looked at Locke like the “ONI Hitman” type of personality 343 developed for him. No characterization at all. The nightfall series, in my opinion was bad. And I never had any appeal to Locke. Now you look at Chief and you automatically see the face of Halo. The badass Spartan 2 that saved the Galaxy, etc.
I hope 343 cannot force the characters and the levels like in Halo 5. Even the master Chief in Halo 5 felt kind of forced.
> 2535437652903765;11:
> > 2533274849069111;10:
> > He should look up to Chief because Spartan II’s are giants compared to IV’s, but 343i felt bad for baby Locke and gave him a boost up.
>
> The image behind the -IIs is giant compared to that of the -IVs, but when it comes to physical size, the -IVs are about the same.
except in halo 4 where Chief is taller than commander boring by 2 feet 
> 2533274911200879;19:
> > 2535437652903765;11:
> > > 2533274849069111;10:
> > > He should look up to Chief because Spartan II’s are giants compared to IV’s, but 343i felt bad for baby Locke and gave him a boost up.
> >
> > The image behind the -IIs is giant compared to that of the -IVs, but when it comes to physical size, the -IVs are about the same.
>
> except in halo 4 where Chief is taller than commander boring by 2 feet
In a single cutscene, which is far from correct, since Palmer is only supposed to be about 5" shorter than 117.
> 2533274911200879;16:
> > 2533274812652989;9:
> > > 2533274911200879;7:
> > > Locke looks up to every other human alive because he knows he’s such a bad character
> >
> > Nice to see the community still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to analyzing characters.
>
> Actually I do know how analyze a character and in my opinion Locke is a bad one.
Well, do explain why.
> 2533274812652989;9:
> > 2533274911200879;7:
> > Locke looks up to every other human alive because he knows he’s such a bad character
>
> Nice to see the community still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to analyzing characters.
Yeah, can you not pin that on the community, and pin it on just the guy who actually said it?
Ta.
> 2533274849069111;22:
> > 2533274812652989;9:
> > > 2533274911200879;7:
> > > Locke looks up to every other human alive because he knows he’s such a bad character
> >
> > Nice to see the community still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to analyzing characters.
>
> Yeah, can you not pin that on the community, and pin it on just the guy who actually said it?
>
> Ta.
It’s a widespread sentiment, so nah. I’ve seen criticism towards Locke that ranges from the delusional (apparently he is arrogant and rude when he isn’t) to the generic (who I quoted). And naturally there is hardly any justification for any of it. But if it doesn’t apply to you as a member of the community don’t worry about it.
> 2533274966743271;17:
> > 2533274818737568;13:
> > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > I think he looks up to him as all Spartans probably do. He is the best Spartan ever. He pretty much saved humanity. But if you watched Nightfall and listened about Locke he is the type to carry out a mission no matter what even if he doesn’t like it.
> >
> > He’s the luckiest, not the best. Plenty of others are better than him, like Kurt 051.
>
> he is the luckiest, but is also the best Halsey and cortana both say so they say he isn’t the biggest the strongest the smartest but he is the best this is also compared to the IIs compared to the 3s and 4s all IIs are a cut above
Seeing as how Kurt beat him several times in training, I’m going to go ahead and say no.
> 2533274812652989;9:
> Nice to see the community still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to analyzing characters.
Nice to see you still act condescending when it comes to Locke, presenting your personal opinions as fact, refusing to see other perspectives and patronizing people for having them.
> 2533274812652989;21:
> Well, do explain why.
> 2533274801176260;25:
> > 2533274812652989;9:
> > Nice to see the community still has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to analyzing characters.
>
> Nice to see you still act condescending when it comes to Locke, presenting your personal opinions as fact, refusing to see other perspectives and patronizing people for having them.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274812652989;21:
> > Well, do explain why.
>
> - No character development (in any of the stories he appeared in, including Nightfall)
> - No personal faults, does nothing wrong, has no traits that he needs to overcome (ties into point 1)
> - Not even quirks or idiosyncrasies
> In writing terms, he’s a flat, static Mary Sue character. Simple and boring.
> Just because John is one as well (or at least was, prior to Halo 4) does not absolve Locke from being poorly conceived and developed.
> The only good thing about him that can be said is that he never acted out of character the way John and Cortana did (since he has so little of a character in the first place).
> IMHO, btw.
I was with ya until you busted out there Mary Sue line, something so overused at this point. As for your list of issues, I found Locke’s commitment to his values despite everything that happened during the event the Nightfall intriguing and tells you a lot about his character. He tries to appeal to the better nature of people, any people. He gave the Zealot a chance to surrender. He took the element miners as prisoners rather than just execute them. He even made last ditch efforts to appeal to the treasonous members of his team. Each time things went wrong. The Zealot managed to set off his bomb. The element miners ended up falling prey to Horrigan and Ramos, who further rejected Locke’s appeals. I’d say that was a pretty serious flaw, at least with Nightfall. It serves him better in Halo 5 with the likes of Sloan and the Arbiter and somewhat with Blue Team.
So I’m comfortable with seeing that as character development. Despite everything he’s been through, Locke hasn’t been cynically broken like so many other characters in Halo. That’s commendable in my book. I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing that put to the test further in Halo 6 or a future Halo game. Not everybody can be reasoned with, especially Cortana I’m assuming. So to say he has no faults is a bit of a stretch if we are including Nightfall.
Don’t get me wrong, Locke’s not perfect, but for the most part I don’t think people do analysis very well. They either make things up or just go “Locke’s bad” with little reasoning to back that up. If that sounds condensending, then I apologize, but I think there is more to him than people give him credit for. At the very worst, Locke’s kinda bland, but it was refreshing to see a competent Spartan-IV in action.
> 2533274812652989;26:
> I was with ya until you busted out there Mary Sue line, something so overused at this point.
Something being overused doesn’t make it wrong by default.
> 2533274812652989;26:
> Each time things went wrong. The Zealot managed to set off his bomb. The element miners ended up falling prey to Horrigan and Ramos, who further rejected Locke’s appeals. I’d say that was a pretty serious flaw, at least with Nightfall.
That’s not what I meant with “faults”. I meant character flaws. Being hotheaded, being stubborn, being egocentric, etc. Locke has none such traits.
And those things you mentioned was him failing while trying to do something commendable. That’s not making the character more round, it’s just sneakily trying to make him more likeable.
> 2533274812652989;26:
> So I’m comfortable with seeing that as character development.
Wait, how is this character development? He already had all these positive attributes at the beginning of Nightfall (which is the earliest story in the chronology), and he neither shed himself of bad ones (since he doesn’t have any) nor gained any new ones in the meantime. (For completion’s sake: He also didn’t get any bad or lose good traits, Anakin Skywalker style.)
> 2533274812652989;26:
> Not everybody can be reasoned with, especially Cortana I’m assuming. So to say he has no faults is a bit of a stretch if we are including Nightfall.
I still don’t see how this is a fault. Unless your are trying to say that this makes him incapable of approaching problems in different ways.
> 2533274812652989;26:
> If that sounds condensending, then I apologize, but I think there is more to him than people give him credit for.
The problem was that your very first reaction to somebody (jokingly, I might add) saying something bad about Locke was not only to insinuate he/she had no idea of character analyzation, but that everybody in the community who thinks Locke is a bad character doesn’t. Even afterwards you called people delusional for perceiving him as arrogant. (Which I don’t, but I still don’t just dismiss other people’s opinion just because it doesn’t coincide with mine.)
And that’s not the only time you’ve done this. We’ve had this discussion several times before. I vividly remember last(?) time, when somebody didn’t like Locke as a character and you literally called his opinion “irrational”. (And before somebody tries to spin this a different way, no, it wasn’t me. In fact I don’t like Locke, but I also don’t dislike Locke. I find him unremarkable.)
I don’t know if you merely became bitter for talking to too many uniformed people (Trust me, I’ve been there) or you just have a personal bias, but whenever it comes to Locke, you’re not only overly protective, you almost prosecute people who don’t share your opinion.
> 2533274812652989;26:
> At the very worst, Locke’s kinda bland, but it was refreshing to see a competent Spartan-IV in action.
To be fair, Palmer is equally as capable. And she still has some edges to her character. But people would have gone ape -Yoink-, if she had been Osiris’ leader and the main playable character in H5G.
Celestis
All I can really say is that a lot of the way people criticize Locke reminds me how criticism of the Chief happened with Halo 4. Now, I loved the direction they went with the Chief, but do you recall how he was said to be a whiner or emo? That’s pretty -Yoink- criticism no matter how generous we want to be about subjectivity. Some say Locke is rude and arrogant and I feel that is just as -Yoink- criticism. I can understand claims that he’s boring and I’d agree he isn’t the most dynamic character, but like I said I enjoy his professionalism and his willingness to not just shot first and ask questions later. Maybe the Locke teased in the ads would have been more dynamic given how sinister he seemed to be be, but it didn’t on out that way.
I’ll be frank, I probably go in guns-blazing on the topic of Locke too often, but I’d rather not see a repeat of what happened with Chief and his regression as a character in Halo 5. I’d rather see Locke be given to a more competent writer than Brian Reed. Sometimes that’s all that is needed. Ironically, all the people who shout for character development (not necessarily you) would deny that to Locke and the members of Osiris between their calls for them to be forgotten (despite criticizing 343 for neglecting plot points) or killed off (despite criticizing 343 for killing off Jul 'Mdama among others). I’d like to see them given a better chance than just be cast off because they didn’t have a solid first outing.
As for whether he has faults or anything else you mentioned, well, we’ve probably had this song and dance before and you know how I feel. I may not agree with you, but you actually laid out your reasoning. That’s all I ask of folks. I don’t seek to persecute so much as I seek to have people just think. If 343’s listening to feedback I’d rather have specific criticisms of Locke than just “He’s bad!”
> 2533274818737568;24:
> > 2533274966743271;17:
> > > 2533274818737568;13:
> > > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > > I think he looks up to him as all Spartans probably do. He is the best Spartan ever. He pretty much saved humanity. But if you watched Nightfall and listened about Locke he is the type to carry out a mission no matter what even if he doesn’t like it.
> > >
> > > He’s the luckiest, not the best. Plenty of others are better than him, like Kurt 051.
> >
> > he is the luckiest, but is also the best Halsey and cortana both say so they say he isn’t the biggest the strongest the smartest but he is the best this is also compared to the IIs compared to the 3s and 4s all IIs are a cut above
>
> Seeing as how Kurt beat him several times in training, I’m going to go ahead and say no.
And how many timess did chief beat him why was chief the "chief " he was the leader of all the spartans and the best ! Kurt died chief saved humanity
> 2533274966743271;29:
> > 2533274818737568;24:
> > > 2533274966743271;17:
> > > > 2533274818737568;13:
> > > > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > > > I think he looks up to him as all Spartans probably do. He is the best Spartan ever. He pretty much saved humanity. But if you watched Nightfall and listened about Locke he is the type to carry out a mission no matter what even if he doesn’t like it.
> > > >
> > > > He’s the luckiest, not the best. Plenty of others are better than him, like Kurt 051.
> > >
> > > he is the luckiest, but is also the best Halsey and cortana both say so they say he isn’t the biggest the strongest the smartest but he is the best this is also compared to the IIs compared to the 3s and 4s all IIs are a cut above
> >
> > Seeing as how Kurt beat him several times in training, I’m going to go ahead and say no.
>
> And how many timess did chief beat him why was chief the "chief " he was the leader of all the spartans and the best ! Kurt died chief saved humanity
Chief got lucky. That’s all Chief has ever been. He’s not the best, period.
Chief is Chief because he gets lucky and has leadership skills. Leadership doesn’t mean a lot when it’s a 1v1, or 4v4 as the Spartans were trained in ( which Kurt’s team still beat John’s team an uncountable amount of times). Even John thinks this in Ghosts of Onyx
> 2533274812652989;28:
> CelestisNow, I loved the direction they went with the Chief, but do you recall how he was said to be a whiner or emo? That’s pretty -Yoink- criticism no matter how generous we want to be about subjectivity.
I think we’ve already had this discussion as well, and while I get what they were going for and I don’t think they made him overly whiny or emo, I will never understand why he griefs so much about somebody (even disregarding that it’s an A.I., i.e. a piece of equipment) that he literally spent less than two weeks consciously with. Especially since he never had such an emotional reaction after deaths of fellow Spartans, his family that he grew up with and fought together over decades.
> 2533274812652989;28:
> I’ll be frank, I probably go in guns-blazing on the topic of Locke too often, but I’d rather not see a repeat of what happened with Chief and his regression as a character in Halo 5.
Just be careful that you don’t antagonize people too much. It can have the exact opposite effect, disregarding your arguments outright, regardless of how valid or well-presented they may be. I don’t like it either, but humans just tick that way…
> 2533274812652989;28:
> I’d rather see Locke be given to a more competent writer than Brian Reed. Sometimes that’s all that is needed. Ironically, all the people who shout for character development (not necessarily you) would deny that to Locke and the members of Osiris between their calls for them to be forgotten (despite criticizing 343 for neglecting plot points) or killed off (despite criticizing 343 for killing off Jul 'Mdama among others). I’d like to see them given a better chance than just be cast off because they didn’t have a solid first outing.
Fair enough. I can agree with that. Although I’d rather see this begin as NPCs that still appear in cutscenes (similar to Noble Team), given that they remind people of H5G, which leaves a bitter taste in their mouths. To be frank, I’d rather see them killed off than forced upon the players who don’t like them. Keeping Locke as a playable character at this point would probably be worse than making Palmer the face of the Halo franchise from here on out. They need to be slowly reintroduced to players, giving them time to accommodate.
> 2533274808388201;1:
> So I just played through the halo 5 campaign again and the part where Locke says “You’re not the only one here because of him” keeps sticking in my head. Do you think Locke once looked up to the Master Chief and that’s why he became a spartan or does he mean everyone would be dead otherwise?
I’ve always interpreted that line as Locke telling Buck that Buck’s reputation was not the only one on the line, and that Buck was not the only person there who was going to go hunt down the Chief.