I’ve noticed Halsey seems a tad desperate in the spartan ops series, I find it both odd and understandable in her situation but I don’t entirely like how she is being portrayed; her demeanor is normally more adamant and cool.
What do you all think? Do you like or dislike this? And who felt it funny that Palmer basically was in a situation to assassinate a ‘-Yoink!-’ figure but decided to shoot at the person next to him instead.
She’s lost her daughter, most of her Spartans, her power and her prestige. It’s understandable that she may be a little broken and a little less sure of things. Especially now that she’s discovered John is still alive. She’s in a position where she doesn’t feel like she has anyone, or anything other than her work.
Desperate Times call for desperate measures…
> Desperate Times call for desperate measures…
…Guess we’re the desperate measures.
> She’s lost her daughter, most of her Spartans, her power and her prestige. It’s understandable that she may be a little broken and a little less sure of things. Especially now that she’s discovered John is still alive. She’s in a position where she doesn’t feel like she has anyone, or anything other than her work.
Yes, I did say I understand why/how she could be acting, but it doesn’t entirely seem like her.
She must have known that one day the UNSC would once again drag her out of her hole and put her to work, thus allowing her an opportunity to do whatever she wants to do at the time.
Though I think you are right about the John thing, she thought he was dead, she must want to see him so bad, the Spartans were her own children in her eyes. She is probably aware that in her given situation, she may not survive, and now that ONI took a shot at her, she may not give them a second try, so it will be interesting if she can bug out, maybe convince Thorn to help her if ONI still wants to go through with the whole shoosty route with her.
<mark>But what does everyone think about the Palmer thing</mark>, she had the chance to take out the head of the enemy resistance and she thought Halsey was more important.
Considering the Sangehili almost completely blew up the Infinity, she needs her priorities set straight in my opinion.
nobody likes failmer.
> nobody likes failmer.
You’re doing it wrong.
It’s Sarah FacePalmer.
I actually have a new appreciation for Palmer. She’s brash but I think the latest episode showed that she isn’t just hostile towards Halsey because of what she’s heard, but also because she thinks she can mess things up for Lasky. See, she’s not killing Halsey because she wants to shoot an old woman, she knows Lasky wont do it and that could cause major problems for him. I think Thorne will help change her mind.
> > She’s lost her daughter, most of her Spartans, her power and her prestige. It’s understandable that she may be a little broken and a little less sure of things. Especially now that she’s discovered John is still alive. She’s in a position where she doesn’t feel like she has anyone, or anything other than her work.
>
> Yes, I did say I understand why/how she could be acting, but it doesn’t entirely seem like her.
>
> She must have known that one day the UNSC would once again drag her out of her hole and put her to work, thus allowing her an opportunity to do whatever she wants to do at the time.
>
> Though I think you are right about the John thing, she thought he was dead, she must want to see him so bad, the Spartans were her own children in her eyes. She is probably aware that in her given situation, she may not survive, and now that ONI took a shot at her, she may not give them a second try, so it will be interesting if she can bug out, maybe convince Thorn to help her if ONI still wants to go through with the whole shoosty route with her.
>
> <mark>But what does everyone think about the Palmer thing</mark>, she had the chance to take out the head of the enemy resistance and she thought Halsey was more important.
>
> Considering the Sangehili almost completely blew up the Infinity, she needs her priorities set straight in my opinion.
As far as Palmer goes, orders are orders and like Osman, she seems much more inclinded to take Halsey out for good rather then continue to use her. Additionally and from my perspective, Kilo Five and ONI has had ample oppurtunity to take down the Covenants Leadership post Halo 3. Palmer not focusing on Jul M’dama could be a hint that ONI still wants Jul to continue to “do what he’s doing”. I mean, from ONI’s perspective if they can keep this civil war thing going between the Sanghelli, then they’ll get weaker while the UNSC gains back its strength.
Then again, Halsey did threaten Infinity and Lasky for that matter and with that and Palmer’s own distaste for Halsey (most likley thanks to Osman), she was more then willing to take out Halsey.
All the characters traits and personalities keep changing…I’m beginning to wonder if Karren is writing the scripts for Spops.
I wish Halsey would make Palmer look like the arrogent yoink! she is infront of Lasky and the other spartan IV’s more often.
> As far as Palmer goes, orders are orders and like Osman, she seems much more inclinded to take Halsey out for good rather then continue to use her. Additionally and from my perspective, <mark>Kilo Five and ONI has had ample oppurtunity to take down the Covenants Leadership post Halo 3</mark>. Palmer not focusing on Jul M’dama could be a hint that ONI still wants Jul to continue to “do what he’s doing”. I mean, from ONI’s perspective if they can keep this civil war thing going between the Sanghelli, then they’ll get weaker while the UNSC gains back its strength.
>
> Then again, Halsey did threaten Infinity and Lasky for that matter and with that and Palmer’s own distaste for Halsey (most likley thanks to Osman), she was more then willing to take out Halsey.
That was when they had a Sangheili leader that they were able to predict and manipulate. Thus far we don’t know anything about the ONI involvement with Jul 'Mdama after Thursday War.
I’m sure they are trying something but at this point I think they would have had a lot less meddling. But the moment the Storm got on the Infinity with nukes basically through everything out the window. They were likely a hairs length from blowing the most expensive UNSC ship in history. Which at this point is basically the only thing keeping the UNSC from losing any important naval battles.
And considering the current situation, if the UNSC could take out the Storm leadership that would throw a wrench into the Didacts plans, because if he is currently incapacitated, he would lose a lot of grunts to order around to help him on his feet to start taking more swings at humanity.
> As far as Palmer goes, orders are orders and like Osman, she seems much more inclinded to take Halsey out for good rather then continue to use her. Additionally and from my perspective, Kilo Five and ONI has had ample oppurtunity to take down the Covenants Leadership post Halo 3. Palmer not focusing on Jul M’dama could be a hint that ONI still wants Jul to continue to “do what he’s doing”. I mean, from ONI’s perspective if they can keep this civil war thing going between the Sanghelli, then they’ll get weaker while the UNSC gains back its strength.
>
> Then again, Halsey did threaten Infinity and Lasky for that matter and with that and Palmer’s own distaste for Halsey (most likley thanks to Osman), she was more then willing to take out Halsey.
So, if Palmer were ordered to go around and shoot everyone on the Infinity, you’d be ok with that? Just because they’re ordered to do something does not make it right or something that should be done. Which is the case with Assman (yes, I know it’s really spelled Osman, I’m giving her a derogatory nickname), she is giving an illegitimate order. ONI does not have the power to order hits on civilian citizens of the UEG whenever the hell they feel like to whoever they want. Things like that are always supposed to go through the proper channels, assassinations obviously happen, but not without the proper clearance or authorization. Something that ONI does not have on its own, they have to go through proper channels and get it officially sanctioned, that’s how the military and operations like that work, otherwise they’re breaking the law. Like SEAL Team 6 going after Osama -Yoink!-, that had to be approved by Obama before they could even so much as put on boot on the ground. If anyone in that situation in SpOps would be getting a court-martial, it would be Palmer and Assman.
> > nobody likes failmer.
>
> You’re doing it wrong.
>
> It’s Sarah FacePalmer.
Guys, remember, it’s Sarah Palin.
But I really don’t understand why Palmer shot Halsey instead of Jul. Really? The leader of the enemy you’re trying to fight right there, and you go for Halsey. Palmer logic, I guess.
As for the ongoing debate about whether ONI has the right to call assassinations on anyone they feel like, keep in mind that Halsey is presumed officially dead by the government; nobody would even know about it.
I’d be desperate to if it seemed like literally everybody wanted me dead too.
> > As far as Palmer goes, orders are orders and like Osman, she seems much more inclinded to take Halsey out for good rather then continue to use her. Additionally and from my perspective, Kilo Five and ONI has had ample oppurtunity to take down the Covenants Leadership post Halo 3. Palmer not focusing on Jul M’dama could be a hint that ONI still wants Jul to continue to “do what he’s doing”. I mean, from ONI’s perspective if they can keep this civil war thing going between the Sanghelli, then they’ll get weaker while the UNSC gains back its strength.
> >
> > Then again, Halsey did threaten Infinity and Lasky for that matter and with that and Palmer’s own distaste for Halsey (most likley thanks to Osman), she was more then willing to take out Halsey.
>
> So, if Palmer were ordered to go around and shoot everyone on the Infinity, you’d be ok with that? Just because they’re ordered to do something does not make it right or something that should be done. Which is the case with Assman (yes, I know it’s really spelled Osman, I’m giving her a derogatory nickname), she is giving an illegitimate order. ONI does not have the power to order hits on civilian citizens of the UEG whenever the hell they feel like to whoever they want. Things like that are always supposed to go through the proper channels, assassinations obviously happen, but not without the proper clearance or authorization. Something that ONI does not have on its own, they have to go through proper channels and get it officially sanctioned, that’s how the military and operations like that work, otherwise they’re breaking the law. Like SEAL Team 6 going after Osama -Yoink!-, that had to be approved by Obama before they could even so much as put on boot on the ground. If anyone in that situation in SpOps would be getting a court-martial, it would be Palmer and Assman.
Well, I don’t know what the “proper” channels are in the 2500s, but considering that Osman is the head of ONI, I think it’s fine storytelling, and that Osman herself is probably “the proper channel.” Unless you can find something contrary to that in the Halo Universe, I don’t see how you can presume that Osman lacks that authority.
And also - Obama violated the Constitution in sending in SEAL team 6 w/o approval, but nobodies gonna call him on it. (He unilaterally authorized military force on a nation which posed no immediate threat. Believe it or not, they said they were about 50/50 on whether the guy was there.) I realize this isn’t a political forum, so I’ll drop it now, but the reason I brought it up was because your analogy is pretty much moot, what Osman did and Obama did are pretty much the same - except that the target was a scientist instead of a terrorist (a scientist whom was captured by a terrorist in Halo. They had no idea what she was going to do in enemy hands.)
> I actually have a new appreciation for Palmer. She’s brash but I think the latest episode showed that she isn’t just hostile towards Halsey because of what she’s heard, but also because she thinks she can mess things up for Lasky. See, she’s not killing Halsey because she wants to shoot an old woman, she knows Lasky wont do it and that could cause major problems for him. I think Thorne will help change her mind.
I like a lot of this post. Before, as a pretty huge Halsey fan, I never liked the arrogance pointed her way, and Palmer was definitely a large source of that. The discussion, even if it was short, definitely opened up Palmer as a person and I definitely enjoyed that moment.
As for trying to shoot Halsey, I think obviously Jul would have been the better target, hindsight tells us this. But Palmer’s objective had been solely to kill Halsey, and I don’t blame her for trying to acheive that. If I had to guess, that was on the front of her mind and Type A personalities like her often get tunnel vision for meeting goals and objectives.
Nevertheless, I would love to see Palmer’s character become more tolerant of Halsey, and if possible, grow to appreciate her. I love Jennifer Hale’s work and it’s a shame people hate the character she’s voicing. I guess only time will tell if that changes.
> I’d be desperate to if it seemed like literally everybody wanted me dead too.
New Avatar? 
O.o
She was cold and serious before because she was in control.
Now those she worked for declared her dead, labeled her officially a war criminal, and have been keeping her in a hole.
> As for the ongoing debate about whether ONI has the right to call assassinations on anyone they feel like, keep in mind that Halsey is presumed officially dead by the government; nobody would even know about it.
Funny, for ONI having tried declaring Halsey dead an awful damn lot of people sure do know about her, as well as apparently Hood from the way things sounded in the second part of the Travissty Trilogy…if she’s supposed to be declared dead, then either being dead has a completely different meaning in Halo, or ONI are the worst people at keeping secrets ever as seemingly every single character knows about Halsey’s continued existence…even your average Spartan who wouldn’t have the classification required for knowing the truth. The way that both Travissty and 343i have gone about it, Halsey is anything but a secret, which creates all kinds of problems with characterization or at least Lord Hood as well as the constantly mentioned breaches of authority ONI has been endlessly committing.
> Well, I don’t know what the “proper” channels are in the 2500s, but considering that Osman is the head of ONI, I think it’s fine storytelling, and that Osman herself is probably “the proper channel.” Unless you can find something contrary to that in the Halo Universe, I don’t see how you can presume that Osman lacks that authority.
>
> And also - Obama violated the Constitution in sending in SEAL team 6 w/o approval, but nobodies gonna call him on it. (He unilaterally authorized military force on a nation which posed no immediate threat. Believe it or not, they said they were about 50/50 on whether the guy was there.) I realize this isn’t a political forum, so I’ll drop it now, but the reason I brought it up was because your analogy is pretty much moot, what Osman did and Obama did are pretty much the same - except that the target was a scientist instead of a terrorist (a scientist whom was captured by a terrorist in Halo. They had no idea what she was going to do in enemy hands.)
Unless otherwise stated by the lore, the UNSC has always been portrayed as incredibly similar to the way the US government is organized when it comes to the rights of its citizens and the powers the military has. One such right and lack of power the government has is locking away its citizens or executing them without trial…which rights out assassinations. And even then when such things are allowed to happen, they have to be brought up through to the higher ranks to be authorized. Being the head of ONI is not high enough because they just don’t have the power (otherwise Parangosky would have murdered Halsey years and years ago). When it comes to big things (Spartan II, Spartan III, assassinations, etc.), ONI can’t do anything without putting it pas the UNSC High Command, their direct superiors, or the UEG itself.
If you want to explain it PM me, 'cause I don’t see anything law-breaking or un-constitutional about it, he wasn’t declaring making a declaration of war on Pakistan, the POTUS is the Commander in Chief of the U.S. Armed Forces…so if you really want to explain what’s so law-breaking about it then you can just PM me…unless of course that’s against the rules around here too >_>
Not to get things too political, but US is debating right now about how to treat civilians who join Al Qaeda (after that american who joined them got killed via drone).
Add to this Halsey is already a war criminal, so she’s technically an escaped convict who joined the enemy. We know as a viewer that she didn’t really join them, but until the Janus key thing, there was no evidence to characters otherwise.
ONI hasn’t had a problem with kidnapping kids who did nothing wrong but have special genes in the past, it only seems to be a recent thing to actually have an issue with this, and mostly just to demonize halsey.