Retcons aren’t inherently a bad thing, so I’m not seeing the problem. The whole hang up people have about Chief fighting a Brute is especially weird since it Brutes being engaged by the UNSC has been corrected long before Halo 4. I mean, it doesn’t really make sense that they’d only have fought Grunts and Jackals for 30 years and never encounter an Elite, Hunter, Brute or whatever as made evident in the original Fall of Reach and First Strike. Sometimes a retcon is necessary and one like the introduction of Covenant species being encountered earlier than before doesn’t actually harm the story. You don’t have to like the reasons, heck I’m still not a fan of the whole nanobot angle, but it is what it is and yet it doesn’t break any prior canon. All I see is mountains being made out of mole hills.
Im thinking Chief gets a new set of armor because if im correct, A.I.s can control the Gen 2 armor suits. Maybe John switches back to Gen 1 ? or maybe its a new MK entirely ? Maybe it’s a final product of the MK VII since Naomi 010 wore a prototype MK VII. Who knows ? I just hope the reason is for the lore.
> 2533274936891954;15:
> Im thinking Chief gets a new set of armor because if im correct, A.I.s can control the Gen 2 armor suits. Maybe John switches back to Gen 1 ? or maybe its a new MK entirely ? Maybe it’s a final product of the MK VII since Naomi 010 wore a prototype MK VII. Who knows ? I just hope the reason is for the lore.
A.Is can still control Gen 1 even if every spartan wears MK 4 gen 1, but even then they arn’t safe. Any armor that can have a A.I in it has the risk of a A.I controlling the armor. Also we say MK 7 prototype in a H5G multiplayer armor.
While Halo 4 was in production, 343i posted a picture of an Unggoy they were making. A thread appeared asking 343i “where was the exoskeleton?” At first 343i was like “what exoskeleton?” Our response was, “The exoskeleton they were described as having according to all the available documentation provided by Bungie.” 343i’s response was, “Bungie got it wrong.” Yes, you read that right. 343i asserted that Bungie both described and drew the characters they made up incorrectly in Halo CE-3, ODST and Reach. Apparently Ensemble got it wrong as well when they made Halo Wars.
The sad part is that they could have come up with dozens of plausible reasons, and didn’t. The real reason things like this happen is because they don’t think we’ll notice, or care. Just like when they changed the Japanese voice actor for Master Chief. Caused a big stink in Japan.
Having done a bit of looking around, the best canonical explanation I’m happy with for all the armour changes was one presented by HaloCanon. He proposes that there wasn’t simply a Mark IV, V, VI, VII and Gen 2 with multiple permutations as we’ve believed for so long, but rather that the armour has been constantly updated since the beginning. I believe that canonically we have something along the lines of this:
Mark IV
- First Release - The version worn by John, Samuel and Kelly during their first attack against the Covenant - First Known Upgrade - The armour worn shortly after with changes made to make it stealthier (and I forget what else Silent Storm mentions) - Second Known Upgrade - A later revised version by Dr Halsey, bridging the gap between the last upgrade and the next - Third Known Upgrade - The most well known Mark IV worn by the original Spartan Red Team - Fourth Known Upgrade - A final version worn by Grey Team as Halsey started to get closer to fleshing out what she wanted from the upcoming Mark V(We also know that iterations of the AA and Grenadier variants existed within the Mark IV range, as well as other likely variants such as the EVA.)
Mark V
-
Mark V Alpha - The first early release of the Mark V possible given to Grey Team as they wouldn’t be available for the upcoming Operation Red Flag - Mark V Beta - A lighter version of the Mark V tested by Noble Team (many of which altered the armour to form their own personal permutations) - Mark V [Reference 1] [Reference 2] - The standard Mark V we know and love, worn by Spartan John 117 during the battle of Alpha Halo - Mark V Delta - The standard Mark V helmet now altered to be compatible with the Mark VI, VII and Gen 2 systems
Mark VI -
Standard Mark VI - The armour given to the Master Chief on Cairo Station and worn throughout the battles of Earth, Delta Halo and the Ark - Mark VI Improved - An upgraded version of the standard Mark VI using nano-technology. Cortana used the Mark IV “First Known Upgrade” as inspiration (see above)Mark VII
-
Little is known about the Mark VII except that Naomi wore a variant that looked almost identical to the Mark VGen 2
-
There are countless Gen 2 permutations. One of which looks identical to the Mark VI Improved and was worn by the Chief during the events of Halo 5.
![[Reference 1]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/63/e2/bd63e2692f2425b077e737832b9b1962.jpg){kind=link}
![[Reference 2]](https://i.redditmedia.com/eOF9s_9PLZo6gC3iJfvf3FKOiRJsUveTeSQp96W1_4U.jpg?fit=crop&crop=faces%2Centropy&arh=2&w=960&s=91a509476b747ecf7db60017f71962cf){kind=link}
> 2533274798957786;17:
> While Halo 4 was in production, 343i posted a picture of an Unggoy they were making. A thread appeared asking 343i “where was the exoskeleton?” At first 343i was like “what exoskeleton?” Our response was, “The exoskeleton they were described as having according to all the available documentation provided by Bungie.” 343i’s response was, “Bungie got it wrong.” Yes, you read that right. 343i asserted that Bungie both described and drew the characters they made up incorrectly in Halo CE-3, ODST and Reach. Apparently Ensemble got it wrong as well when they made Halo Wars.
>
> The sad part is that they could have come up with dozens of plausible reasons, and didn’t. The real reason things like this happen is because they don’t think we’ll notice, or care. Just like when they changed the Japanese voice actor for Master Chief. Caused a big stink in Japan.
Again, and again, this.
Spartan armor, Elites, Grunts, Jackals, etc.; during development, when the community understandably reacted to these very obvious changes in design, 343’s reaction never made any references to “nanobots,” or “phenotypes,” or any of that nonsense. They simply (and explicitly, iirc) stated that they were a “new” studio, and the team wanted to put a “new” take on the design; cut and dry, it was that simple.
However, when the game launched, there was a understandably a huge amount of backlash at how different everything looked, which 343 assumingely didn’t expect. It was only after launch that they realized people wouldn’t stop bringing it up, which ultimately lead them to “explain” everything canonically, hence the “nanobots” and covenant “phenotypes.”
> 2533274813244926;19:
> > 2533274798957786;17:
> > While Halo 4 was in production, 343i posted a picture of an Unggoy they were making. A thread appeared asking 343i “where was the exoskeleton?” At first 343i was like “what exoskeleton?” Our response was, “The exoskeleton they were described as having according to all the available documentation provided by Bungie.” 343i’s response was, “Bungie got it wrong.” Yes, you read that right. 343i asserted that Bungie both described and drew the characters they made up incorrectly in Halo CE-3, ODST and Reach. Apparently Ensemble got it wrong as well when they made Halo Wars.
> >
> > The sad part is that they could have come up with dozens of plausible reasons, and didn’t. The real reason things like this happen is because they don’t think we’ll notice, or care. Just like when they changed the Japanese voice actor for Master Chief. Caused a big stink in Japan.
>
> Again, and again, this.
>
> Spartan armor, Elites, Grunts, Jackals, etc.; during development, when the community understandably reacted to these very obvious changes in design, 343’s reaction never made any references to “nanobots,” or “phenotypes,” or any of that nonsense. They simply (and explicitly, iirc) stated that they were a “new” studio, and the team wanted to put a “new” take on the design; cut and dry, it was that simple.
>
> However, when the game launched, there was a understandably a huge amount of backlash at how different everything looked, which 343 assumingely didn’t expect. It was only after launch that they realized people wouldn’t stop bringing it up, which ultimately lead them to “explain” everything canonically, hence the “nanobots” and covenant “phenotypes.”
Yeah. I have a vague memory of Frank O’Connor saying that the only reason the MJOLNIR armour looked different in Bungie’s games is because they had limited polygons to work with, which I never bought. That said, I think 343i have started to understand they had the wrong attitude and are now going out of their way to make amends.
> 2533274812652989;14:
> Retcons aren’t inherently a bad thing, so I’m not seeing the problem.
They are when they’re 100% needless, as is the case with Chief’s armor.
As with the new Elite, Jackal, and Grunt designs, prior to Halo 4’s launch, all of these changes were specifically labeled as “design choices” on the part of the art team, by 343, directly; they were never “canonical” changes. They explicitly stated that they wanted to put “their own mark” on the game, and that’s exactly what their art team did, which is *fine.*All they had to do, starting with Halo 4 (and all they should have done), is simply say “we’re going with a new art style,” and leave it at that. Which is exactly what they should do with Infinite; forget all the retcon -Yoink-, and move on. Armor, Covenant designs, all of it. All it is is a new art style, and that’s all they need to say.
Also, even as it stands, currently, the only canon “proof” behind Chief’s retconned armor is an art book. As far as I can find, there is no other media that addresses Chief’s total armor overhaul, let alone explains it- including the games, themselves! If we’re gonna “retcon” anything, I think it makes far more sense to retcon a single point of contention, as opposed to dozens and dozens of other Halo literature, going forward.
> 2533274812652989;2:
> You’re wrong though. 343 Industries did explain the change, not in-game, but they did. Cortana utilized nanomachines in Chief’s armor to change it and used an old variant of Mk. IV MJOLNIR as the basis for the new design. Explained by Frank O’Connor and reconfirmed in the Halo 4 Essential Visual Guide. So, no, the Chief’s armor did canonically change.
>
> They need to broach the change CORRECTLY this time. Having Chief start in the modified Mk.VI and changing to the older-looking armor can easily be done multiple ways.
I’m all for explanations, I think they need to stick to being more vocal about it story wise. When I introduce people into the Halo timelines, I’d rather them not be like “why did master chief’s armor change?” lol
I think there is a good explanation. Master chiefs Hlmet was damaged in Halo 5 and His armour was vulnerable to Cortana (The Betrayal cutscene) His Mark Vi could be there because he has to downgrade to prevent the created from hacking his armour.
To he honest I always saw the changes in armor appearance basically were inherited as a design choice based on limitations at the time. As we’ve progressed through the ages the chiefs armor alterations can be explained by the fact that the parent company has more to work with and can make their envisioned Chief look how he couldn’t a decade ago.
With that said, I feel the Halo universe needs a realistic art style comparable to Reach, but still more real-life oriented. Right now, the graphics, color styles, and art choices come across to me as childish, outlandish, and subpar for a franchise that can be exciting, suspenseful, and loved. We need that realism depth in models like the cutscenes are in H5. Cut the extreme colors and give visual life to the characters.
A good canon reason would be that since the armor Chief wears in 4 and 5 was personally designed by Cortana, Chief wouldn’t trust to wear it now that she is out to get him and the UNSC. Since the UNSC is enveloped in chaos because of Cortana, the Mark VI might be the only armor he has available to him.
I loathe the nanobot excuse for Chief’s armor design, to me it was just a ridiculous way to explain Chief’s armor change instead of saying it was a creative decision to change it.
> 2533274917158807;26:
> I loathe the nanobot excuse for Chief’s armor design, to me it was just a ridiculous way to explain Chief’s armor change instead of saying it was a creative decision to change it.
I’m not a fan of the nanobots either, as someone said previously, it’s essentially like saying “magic” and moving on, but what’s done is done.
> 2533274798957786;17:
> While Halo 4 was in production, 343i posted a picture of an Unggoy they were making. A thread appeared asking 343i “where was the exoskeleton?” At first 343i was like “what exoskeleton?” Our response was, “The exoskeleton they were described as having according to all the available documentation provided by Bungie.” 343i’s response was, “Bungie got it wrong.” Yes, you read that right. 343i asserted that Bungie both described and drew the characters they made up incorrectly in Halo CE-3, ODST and Reach. Apparently Ensemble got it wrong as well when they made Halo Wars.
>
> The sad part is that they could have come up with dozens of plausible reasons, and didn’t. The real reason things like this happen is because they don’t think we’ll notice, or care. Just like when they changed the Japanese voice actor for Master Chief. Caused a big stink in Japan.
Source.
> 2533274870445963;28:
> > 2533274798957786;17:
> > While Halo 4 was in production, 343i posted a picture of an Unggoy they were making. A thread appeared asking 343i “where was the exoskeleton?” At first 343i was like “what exoskeleton?” Our response was, “The exoskeleton they were described as having according to all the available documentation provided by Bungie.” 343i’s response was, “Bungie got it wrong.” Yes, you read that right. 343i asserted that Bungie both described and drew the characters they made up incorrectly in Halo CE-3, ODST and Reach. Apparently Ensemble got it wrong as well when they made Halo Wars.
> >
> > The sad part is that they could have come up with dozens of plausible reasons, and didn’t. The real reason things like this happen is because they don’t think we’ll notice, or care. Just like when they changed the Japanese voice actor for Master Chief. Caused a big stink in Japan.
>
> Source.
Seconded on that. I understand wanting to leave their own mark and try something new, but I don’t recall anyone from 343 saying Bungie outright got it wrong.
Explanations are always nice but i wont be upset if we arent given one. Like people have said before me, i just take it that as time progresses, so does technology.
> 2533274804182731;30:
> Explanations are always nice but i wont be upset if we arent given one. Like people have said before me, i just take it that as time progresses, so does technology.
Yeah. That’s a fair point. The change between Halo 3 and 4 was more questionable because the Chief was stuck in a cryo-tube stranded in space. The circumstances between Halo 4 and 5 are completely different.
343 Stated before Halo 4 Came out that the Master Chief looked different because his armours firmware was rewritten. Apparently, The same thing happened to the forward unto Dawn. Which I cant see as making sense why it appears different.
I think that they should, even if the H4 change was badly made with the hastily made explanation not included in the game, i still think they shouldnt make the same mistake again. It would be just a sign of stupidity.
Smart people learn from the mistakes of others, stupid people wont learn even from their own.
Though it could be handled like “uhh, yeah, the armor never changed in canon, it was just design choice”. I think the in-game explanation for change would be better because what is done is done.
Though dont get me wrong, i would be personally fine with the decanonization of the H4 forwards products in the sense of aesthetics at least given its the topic. That would mean no new type of grunts or elites ever existed. In canon at least.