Do you want an Improved Invasion in Halo 4?

Before you say “Invasion Sucks”, let’s strip it down to its simplest form: 3 objectives in one match. Working off of that skeleton alone, we can then make the following changes to improve the gametype:

-Inclusion of more objectives, such as a Slayer Phase and a health-based Generator phase
-More freedom with custom options (why 45 seconds wasn’t a time for territories is beyond me)
-More defined waypoints for teammates
-More focus on secondary objectives like controlling the map as in traditional Halo. This way players aren’t all sitting in the territory or camping the core
-On the point of camping, no power weapons in loadouts. Ever.
-Less time walking to the objectives and more time in the action (helped by smaller maps)
-Maybe add a 2-sided twist where both teams have to race to complete the objective at the same time
-If loadouts aren’t in use, spawning with a precision weapon is a must
-Dynamic initial spawns, such as landing on a dropship or emerging from a droppod a la ODST
-Separate Base Player Traits for both teams
-Simulated, configurable drop pods

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head that would improve what I believe to be the most tactical gametype in Halo. Again, ignore what Bungie did and let’s think of the gametype in new light.

Before you post though I’d like to add that Invasion does not need to be 8v8 or higher. The action simply needs to be more focused and concentrated.

To keep a traditional sort of Classic Halo Feel, then the Power Weapons would need to be spread-out across the map like they would in the most basic Halo Gametypes and Maps and everyone would need to be on even terms.

I think the problem with this method however is that people are generally going to need a heavy offensive at all times. Should Invasion become a Gametype similar to the “Heavy” Gametypes in Halo 3 then we may be able to reach a fine line of awesome-sauce.

I’m fine with Invasion and how it plays at the moment but I think the suggestions that you make are great. It would certainly discourage camping and remaining stationary for most of the game. Boneyard remains to be one of my biggest dislikes since you will always have 2+ People sitting inside the core room with Rockets and Shotguns. Close-proximity Weapon Spawns are a no-no.

Of course this all really depends on how well the designated teams work together. Perhaps turning off or disabling the Party Chat feature would help encourage further team-work.

Agreed. Invasion has loads of potential which has never been worked out well.

For instance, I think Invasion could also work well on smaller scaled maps.
Take Highground for instance: that map is perfect for a smaller, more intense Invasion.

My main gripe with Invasion as it is, are that the maps are REALLY big, and your respawn times are too long. Which means you always get into too little time left to actually reach and hold a scoring point. Faster gameplay would be better for starters.

Further more, a more tactical first spawn would be great. Like landing on from a dropship, or via a droppod. Would make it look more epic, and feel more like a real invasion.

Thirdly: more diverse objectives are a must! Now we only got

  • Capture “X”
  • Blow up “X”

How about actually combining Obective gametypes in this? Like having to actually bring in a bomb, or having to escort a VIP to a certain spot etc etc.

The 2-sided twist is also a very good idea in my opinion.

I like the idea of dynamic initial spawns.

I refrained from adding VIP to the OP because it relies too heavily on ‘like-minded’ teammates. What that means is if you get the VIP who would rather team kill and run the wrong way, it’s not going to be a lot of fun. In fact, one could assume that’s why Bungie eliminated the gametype from Reach entirely. Randoms aren’t always going to play the way you want.

With that said, in a perfect world VIP would have been a lot of fun. The closest we can get to VIP is ‘reverse core’, which is simply bringing the core into enemy territory instead of away from it, sort of like an asset escort

> I like the idea of dynamic initial spawns.
>
> I refrained from adding VIP to the OP because it relies too heavily on ‘like-minded’ teammates. What that means is if you get the VIP who would rather team kill and run the wrong way, it’s not going to be a lot of fun. In fact, one could assume that’s why Bungie eliminated the gametype from Reach entirely. Randoms aren’t always going to play the way you want.
>
> With that said, in a perfect world VIP would have been a lot of fun. The closest we can get to VIP is ‘reverse core’, which is simply bringing the core into enemy territory instead of away from it, sort of like an asset escort

In my idea at the end of phase 2 for instance, one member of the attacking team (who is dead at the time, if not a random player is chosen from the attacking team), would be held in a “prisoncage” over at the defenders last base. Attacker would need to unlock that cage (just like you unlock new phases), and then escort that player to point “x”.

Maybe teamwork could be improved by adding some “penalty” or constraint to the players. I don’t know about that yet.

As something of a veteran invasion player my biggest problem is always that the winning team is usually the one who has the least quitters. More customization and objectives is good and all however my main gripe with invasion is that Halo’s matchmaking lacks a good system for managing quitting players, which is where CoD’s drop in drop out matchmaking comes in. Though I doubt it would be implemented it would sure do invasion a favour.

@Krevilz One of the things I always have to be conscious of when building an Invasion map is how differently the phases will play if players do happen to quit. It’s hard to test this in custom games with drop in/drop out though, which is one reason why a lot of custom Invasion maps would do poorly in MM.

I too doubt drop in/drop out will be in Halo 4, as it would mess up a lot of other playlists. So the challenge here (should Invasion return) is for 343 to build maps where players can manage under these stressed conditions. The maps will need to be tested for 6v5, 6v4, 6v3, etc.

Then again, I imagine party restrictions would be the ultimate way to ‘fix’ this problem.

> -Less time walking to the objectives and more time in the action

This alone would be a tremendous improvement. cough Spire cough

> Agreed. Invasion has loads of potential which has never been worked out well.
>
> For instance, I think Invasion could also work well on smaller scaled maps.
> Take Highground for instance: that map is perfect for a smaller, more intense Invasion.
>
> My main gripe with Invasion as it is, are that the maps are REALLY big, and your respawn times are too long. Which means you always get into too little time left to actually reach and hold a scoring point. Faster gameplay would be better for starters.
>
> Further more, a more tactical first spawn would be great. Like landing on from a dropship, or via a droppod. Would make it look more epic, and feel more like a real invasion.
>
> Thirdly: more diverse objectives are a must! Now we only got
> - Capture “X”
> - Blow up “X”
>
> How about actually combining Obective gametypes in this? Like having to actually bring in a bomb, or having to escort a VIP to a certain spot etc etc.
>
>
> The 2-sided twist is also a very good idea in my opinion.

You can plant bombs already

Invasion is the most dynamic game type Halo has and it has to worked on some more. Adding in more objective like a slayer objective could be game changing. I wouldn’t mind 8v8 invasion games either.

Haven’t you read around on this sub-forum. The “majority” don’t want ANYTHING from Halo: Reach in Halo 4. Anything means anything, so that means no Invasion. :confused:

That aside, yes, I would like Invasion to make a return in Halo 4. But at the same time, the “majority” don’t want loadouts or Armor Abilities in Halo 4 either, and Invasion was pretty much designed with those in mind.

> Haven’t you read around on this sub-forum. The “majority” don’t want ANYTHING from Halo: Reach in Halo 4. Anything means anything, so that means no Invasion. :confused:
>
> That aside, yes, I would like Invasion to make a return in Halo 4. But at the same time, the “majority” don’t want loadouts or Armor Abilities in Halo 4 either, and Invasion was pretty much designed with those in mind.

Not necessarily. As I said in the OP, Invasion at its core is simply 3 objectives in one match. You don’t need loadouts or AAs for that to work. You’re grouping Invasion’s core with Bungie’s idea of a progression system, which (again) is not essential for Invasion to work.

This ‘majority’ that don’t want things from Reach in Halo 4 can be related to Bungie’s screw-ups of said things. For instance, it’s their progression system that we can do away with while still keeping Invasion as a base gametype.

I think they shoul keep loadouts as a Custom Games option and use them in Invasion. IMO it was the only gametype where loadouts felt like they fit into the game.

My idea for Invasion is, when a teams vehicle spawns, the other team can not enter that vehicle until it has been occupied at least once by the vehicles team. I hate playing Invasion and one team has all the vehicles.

I like your ideas, Goat! Keep it up! Invasion has a lot of potential that Bungie didn’t tap into.

I also like your idea of keeping the core of Invasion. So much can be done with the core alone. We don’t NEED AAs to make it work. Anyway, good idea.

> My idea for Invasion is, when a teams vehicle spawns, the other team can not enter that vehicle until it has been occupied at least once by the vehicles team. I hate playing Invasion and one team has all the vehicles.

Hmm… I understand that it’s frustrating when your vehicles are stolen, and I myself have been trying to think of a way to stop that. I don’t think making them team specific is the solution (though team-specific areas dictated by safe zones could solve the issue).

I love Invasion, but it has many flaws that could easily be fixed.

You suggest some very good ideas.

The Invasion Spawn System needs to be over hauled. Perhaps Inavsions could be more like Rush in BF. This seems to work very well.

I hate how in Invasion to stand in an area to control, it would be much better if you had those Generators in Fire Fight, you had to destroy.

Invasion requires more Spawning locations from the very start, only able to choose your default location at the beginning sucks.

Also if 343 took some idears from BF3, in BF3 you can spawn directly in Vehicles. This would be nice.

I think Invasion should get some influence from BF3. I love Invasion, but it requires some improvement. Also it should be incorporated into BTB with 16 players.

> > My idea for Invasion is, when a teams vehicle spawns, the other team can not enter that vehicle until it has been occupied at least once by the vehicles team. I hate playing Invasion and one team has all the vehicles.
>
> Hmm… I understand that it’s frustrating when your vehicles are stolen, and I myself have been trying to think of a way to stop that. I don’t think making them team specific is the solution (though team-specific areas dictated by safe zones could solve the issue).

If you look at Invasion on Bone Yard, the Elits can not steal any of the Spartan Vehicles becasue they are kept in Garages that Elites can not access. Break Point is the same, unfortunatly the Elites Vehicles can be stolen by Spartans.

To fix this allow you to be able to spawn into your vehicle (like BF3). Have different Kill Zones. One for each team, you could place vehicles in areas where the other team can not access due to kill zone, but your team can. This would stop vehicles been stolen.

Or as the first person sugessted, vehicles are locked to a team untill they have been occupied.

This is important, as Halo is very much about Vehicles, and if they can improve on Vehicle Use, this would improve the overall game.

Why the hate on Invasion? Besides SWAT that’s what I play…
I love SvE. The only thing I hate us when I have teammates quit out on the first half. Other than that the spawn times could be decreased but generally I’m ok with Invasion. Best unique gametype imo.

> Why the hate on Invasion? Besides SWAT that’s what I play…
> I love SvE. The only thing I hate us when I have teammates quit out on the first half. Other than that the spawn times could be decreased but generally I’m ok with Invasion. Best unique gametype imo.

I like SvE too, but we don’t know if Elites are coming back in Halo 4 and we don’t know how their weapons would work. I think it’d just save a lot of hassle balance-wise if it was Spartans vs Spartans