So I was recently rereading all the halo books… and when I got to the new ones I noticed that it was REALLY pro human. I mean it practically screams pro human. I don’t mind the fact that the humans are the top dogs now (For now anyway) but I really don’t like the way its going… I mean in Greg Bears awesome series we recently learn that the humans ALMOST beat the forerunners while fighting off the flood… and that their the REAL great race… and are presumably going to save the galaxy and inherent the mantel. As for the Karan Travis books… I really don’t know where to start on their… But that just… I don’t know it seems the way she writes it humans have an IQ of 300 while the aliens have like… 50… and humans are justified in everything they do and their slaughtering the aliens.
I’m no way against having humans being the top dogs… but the way their doing it all seems like it happened way way to fast…
I’m having trouble expressing my “theory”. I suppose its a vibe I’m getting when I read the newer books… Anyone else getting it? (please NO flame for that, and apologies if your having trouble understanding it).
Bungie trilogy - military sci-fi, humans are the underdogs
343 trilogy - fantasy military sci-fi, humans are the top dogs
Yeah, although I don’t really like this new direction I love being able to see the humans be victorious for a bit.
You have to understand things from both a real world and an in-universe perspective.
Lets look at the Greg Bear stuff. Now, their being an ancient human civilisation was hinted at in Halo Legends with the appearance of Heian. Greg Bear basically confirmed suspicions. The issue here is Halo’s history. Throughout the entirety of the first two games, Bungie intended the Forerunners to be ancient humans. The plan all along was for the most powerful race in the galaxy to be humanity. The modern day humans were the reclaimers as they were reclaiming what they’d lost. So as you can see, the humans were always the “great race” in Halo fiction. Bungie changed their minds during the development of Halo 3, and the first word we had of humans and Forerunners being separate species came from the Terminals.
This created a little issue. Why would the Forerunners choose humanity? There was also some negative fan reactions to the move. 343 then took control of Halo and set about adding things. The ancient human civilisation is essentially a middle ground between the humans being Forerunner (as originally intended) and the Forerunner’s being a separate race. They (with Greg Bear) gave us an ancient human civilisation with technology and power rivalling the Forerunners, they gave the two races a shared origin and they gave reason for the Forerunners to leave things in humanity’s hands.
Onto Travis. Her books of caused some controversy among fans and aren’t as universally praised as Bear’s. Your issue of the aliens seeming less intelligent makes sense in-universe. The species clearly have potential but from an in-universe perspective, they lack the knowledge to fulfil this potential. The Prophets structured the Covenant in such a way that every species was stripped of many things. If we use the Elites as an example, the Prophets used them as the foundation of the Covenant military. The Prophets took control of all scientific, research and other related areas. The Elites became even more proficient as warriors, but lost all else, including any sort of political skills. Cut to the current point in canon and we can see the effects this has had. They’re great warriors but they lack the skill and knowledge on how to great ships and weapons. It puts them at a distinct disadvantage against the humans who have always relied on themselves. The humans can also manipulate them easier because the Elites don’t really know how to do so themselves.
Now onto the humans “are justified in everything they do and their slaughtering the aliens” point. This is more complicated. Halo has many parallels to the real world and in many ways, the interactions and conflicts between humanity and other species reflect the conflicts between different groups of humans throughout history. The Covenant attacked humanity and committed a mass genocide. Humanity has always felt justified in wiping out those who have tried to kill you. Whether this is truly justified is something of a philosophical debate but from a psychological perspective, humans as a whole feel more comfortable killing a member of another species than killing other humans. If we apply this to Halo, those in charge have even less reservations about killing Elites than they would when it comes to other groups of humans.
ONI’s supplying the Elites with weapons is something that has been done by the CIA a number of times, and it generally comes back to bite them. In the early 1980s, the CIA provided arms and money to the Taliban so they could fight the Soviets. These were later used against the US. In effect, the US put the Taliban in a position where they had the means to attack them. The same thing happened with a number of South American countries, the CIA gave local rebels the means to take on the ruling regime, just as ONI gave the Telcam’s Elites the means to take on the Arbiter.
Now, I’ve never liked Science Fiction where humanity is the most important race but in Halo I’m less opposed to it as it’s something that they’ve built up to. What I’m hoping is that as the series progresses, we’ll start seeing the humans working with some of the other species to a greater extent. Halo has always been “pro human”, the period covered by Bungie was simply pro human in a different way. The way 343’s period is pro human is built off the previous period.
They are going in a direction in general that i dont care for.
The sense of being sucked into the vast universe is lost. The Covenent look like fierce monsters now, whereas in Halo 2 and 3 they were shown as being intelligent and civilized beings. You believed they had lives and a society and didnt serve the same purpose as the aliens from Galaga.
The side characters in Halo 4s campaign and Spartan Ops are flat and uninspired. A rich universe needs good characters to care about and theres only a few.
The new direction is too UNSC focused, and very narrow with its view. The broad scope and unrelenting FUN of the vibe Bungie gave off in the original trilogy is sorely missed. It was the perfect mix of emotion and lighthearted adventure. The Forerunner mystery grabbed you for years and the Covenant was more intriguing the more you learned about them. Now every plot point involves an ONI or UNSC conspiracy, the Forerunner mystery is gone and the Covenent are monsters again and somehow forgot to how to speak English(which makes IWHBYD skull useless 70% of the time).
Halo 4 had a good campaign because of Cortanas story and Didact was cool though.
> You have to understand things from both a real world and an in-universe perspective.
>
> Lets look at the Greg Bear stuff. Now, their being an ancient human civilisation was hinted at in Halo Legends with the appearance of Heian. Greg Bear basically confirmed suspicions. The issue here is Halo’s history. Throughout the entirety of the first two games, Bungie intended the Forerunners to be ancient humans. The plan all along was for the most powerful race in the galaxy to be humanity. The modern day humans were the reclaimers as they were reclaiming what they’d lost. So as you can see, the humans were always the “great race” in Halo fiction. Bungie changed their minds during the development of Halo 3, and the first word we had of humans and Forerunners being separate species came from the Terminals.
>
> This created a little issue. Why would the Forerunners choose humanity? There was also some negative fan reactions to the move. 343 then took control of Halo and set about adding things. The ancient human civilisation is essentially a middle ground between the humans being Forerunner (as originally intended) and the Forerunner’s being a separate race. They (with Greg Bear) gave us an ancient human civilisation with technology and power rivalling the Forerunners, they gave the two races a shared origin and they gave reason for the Forerunners to leave things in humanity’s hands.
>
> Onto Travis. Her books of caused some controversy among fans and aren’t as universally praised as Bear’s. Your issue of the aliens seeming less intelligent makes sense in-universe. The species clearly have potential but from an in-universe perspective, they lack the knowledge to fulfil this potential. The Prophets structured the Covenant in such a way that every species was stripped of many things. If we use the Elites as an example, the Prophets used them as the foundation of the Covenant military. The Prophets took control of all scientific, research and other related areas. The Elites became even more proficient as warriors, but lost all else, including any sort of political skills. Cut to the current point in canon and we can see the effects this has had. They’re great warriors but they lack the skill and knowledge on how to great ships and weapons. It puts them at a distinct disadvantage against the humans who have always relied on themselves. The humans can also manipulate them easier because the Elites don’t really know how to do so themselves.
>
> Now onto the humans “are justified in everything they do and their slaughtering the aliens” point. This is more complicated. Halo has many parallels to the real world and in many ways, the interactions and conflicts between humanity and other species reflect the conflicts between different groups of humans throughout history. The Covenant attacked humanity and committed a mass genocide. Humanity has always felt justified in wiping out those who have tried to kill you. Whether this is truly justified is something of a philosophical debate but from a psychological perspective, humans as a whole feel more comfortable killing a member of another species than killing other humans. If we apply this to Halo, those in charge have even less reservations about killing Elites than they would when it comes to other groups of humans.
> ONI’s supplying the Elites with weapons is something that has been done by the CIA a number of times, and it generally comes back to bite them. In the early 1980s, the CIA provided arms and money to the Taliban so they could fight the Soviets. These were later used against the US. In effect, the US put the Taliban in a position where they had the means to attack them. The same thing happened with a number of South American countries, the CIA gave local rebels the means to take on the ruling regime, just as ONI gave the Telcam’s Elites the means to take on the Arbiter.
>
> Now, I’ve never liked Science Fiction where humanity is the most important race but in Halo I’m less opposed to it as it’s something that they’ve built up to. What I’m hoping is that as the series progresses, we’ll start seeing the humans working with some of the other species to a greater extent. Halo has always been “pro human”, the period covered by Bungie was simply pro human in a different way. The way 343’s period is pro human is built off the previous period.
I suppose what I mean was that I was opposed to it on a cosmic scale so to speck. That their destined to be the “greatest race”. I mean we all are humans… and… we love to bring are self’s up, But I guess I just don’t like the WAY their doing it and how fast it happened.
I don’t really see how it was “pro human” in the original trilogy tho. Granted their were hints that humans were special and destined for greatness… but never to the extent that the new trilogy is taking it (and (you) the player was a human…). I dint really mind the original at all. But I just really don’t like the pro human crap being shoved in are faces… Although ill stick with halo no matter what.
Very niceee post BTW.
It’s supposed to be pro-human. They are going to be tested by the Precursors after all. Humanity has advanced a lot during the war and the time between Halo 3 and 4.
> > You have to understand things from both a real world and an in-universe perspective.
> >
> > Lets look at the Greg Bear stuff. Now, their being an ancient human civilisation was hinted at in Halo Legends with the appearance of Heian. Greg Bear basically confirmed suspicions. The issue here is Halo’s history. Throughout the entirety of the first two games, Bungie intended the Forerunners to be ancient humans. The plan all along was for the most powerful race in the galaxy to be humanity. The modern day humans were the reclaimers as they were reclaiming what they’d lost. So as you can see, the humans were always the “great race” in Halo fiction. Bungie changed their minds during the development of Halo 3, and the first word we had of humans and Forerunners being separate species came from the Terminals.
> >
> > This created a little issue. Why would the Forerunners choose humanity? There was also some negative fan reactions to the move. 343 then took control of Halo and set about adding things. The ancient human civilisation is essentially a middle ground between the humans being Forerunner (as originally intended) and the Forerunner’s being a separate race. They (with Greg Bear) gave us an ancient human civilisation with technology and power rivalling the Forerunners, they gave the two races a shared origin and they gave reason for the Forerunners to leave things in humanity’s hands.
> >
> > Onto Travis. Her books of caused some controversy among fans and aren’t as universally praised as Bear’s. Your issue of the aliens seeming less intelligent makes sense in-universe. The species clearly have potential but from an in-universe perspective, they lack the knowledge to fulfil this potential. The Prophets structured the Covenant in such a way that every species was stripped of many things. If we use the Elites as an example, the Prophets used them as the foundation of the Covenant military. The Prophets took control of all scientific, research and other related areas. The Elites became even more proficient as warriors, but lost all else, including any sort of political skills. Cut to the current point in canon and we can see the effects this has had. They’re great warriors but they lack the skill and knowledge on how to great ships and weapons. It puts them at a distinct disadvantage against the humans who have always relied on themselves. The humans can also manipulate them easier because the Elites don’t really know how to do so themselves.
> >
> > Now onto the humans “are justified in everything they do and their slaughtering the aliens” point. This is more complicated. Halo has many parallels to the real world and in many ways, the interactions and conflicts between humanity and other species reflect the conflicts between different groups of humans throughout history. The Covenant attacked humanity and committed a mass genocide. Humanity has always felt justified in wiping out those who have tried to kill you. Whether this is truly justified is something of a philosophical debate but from a psychological perspective, humans as a whole feel more comfortable killing a member of another species than killing other humans. If we apply this to Halo, those in charge have even less reservations about killing Elites than they would when it comes to other groups of humans.
> > ONI’s supplying the Elites with weapons is something that has been done by the CIA a number of times, and it generally comes back to bite them. In the early 1980s, the CIA provided arms and money to the Taliban so they could fight the Soviets. These were later used against the US. In effect, the US put the Taliban in a position where they had the means to attack them. The same thing happened with a number of South American countries, the CIA gave local rebels the means to take on the ruling regime, just as ONI gave the Telcam’s Elites the means to take on the Arbiter.
> >
> > Now, I’ve never liked Science Fiction where humanity is the most important race but in Halo I’m less opposed to it as it’s something that they’ve built up to. What I’m hoping is that as the series progresses, we’ll start seeing the humans working with some of the other species to a greater extent. Halo has always been “pro human”, the period covered by Bungie was simply pro human in a different way. The way 343’s period is pro human is built off the previous period.
>
> I suppose what I mean was that I was opposed to it on a cosmic scale so to speck. That their destined to be the “greatest race”. I mean we all are humans… and… we love to bring are self’s up, But I guess I just don’t like the WAY their doing it and how fast it happened.
>
> I don’t really see how it was “pro human” in the original trilogy tho. Granted their were hints that humans were special and destined for greatness… but never to the extent that the new trilogy is taking it (and (you) the player was a human…). I dint really mind the original at all. But I just really don’t like the pro human crap being shoved in are faces… Although ill stick with halo no matter what.
>
> Very niceee post BTW.
I get where you’re coming from and it’s one of those things that really comes down to opinion. The original trilogy seemed pro human to me in the sense that they were the inheritors of this ancient technology for seemingly no reason, and they were the only “good” species, though the Elites joined them to some extent. I quite like how they’re handling it though I am cautious about the future. Like I said, I get where you’re coming from. I suppose this was an issue that was always going to come up with the move to a different company. Their handling was always going to be different and it will likely loose some of the old fans, gain some new ones, cause debates and arguments and change people’s opinions in many way. I think it’s good we can have these discussions, and I think it’s good that you’re not just accepting things as they are because they’re part of Halo, so while I may not wholly share your feelings, I do understand them and it’s something I’ve often grappled with in the past.
I don’t think so. If anything it portrays humanity (namely ONI) in a darker light. Halo has been alot of things, but never morally ambiguous (well apart from the SPARTANS and insurrection). With the war over humanity’s dark side is creeping out, and since it is no longer a fight for survival, mankind’s actions are no longer quite so clearly justified. As for the while inheritors of the mantle thing, Bungie had clearly been working towards that in their trilogy, so I don’t see anything new here.
Problem is , they are showing humanity as we truly are. As a whole humanity is a greedy , deceptive , violent , self destructive force of nature. If we ever come together long enough to get this ball of mud , we will likely spread like a parasite through out the Galaxy. Unless whoever we meet is far more advanced , we will either enslave them or destroy them. It is Human nature , unfortunately.
Why do humans hate themseleves as a race? You never hear the covenint beating themselves up over stuff like this even though they’re just as flawd as we are, proberly more.
What is the difinition of a good race anyway? Even the Precursers the ones that judge who’s good or who’s bad dont sound so good to begin with?
Prophets are liars, Elites are born warriors, grunts are stupid, jackles are shifty, brutes are violent, hunters follow orders with no thoght as to if what they’re doing is wrong, weve seen drones can jelous and violent in contact harvest, Forerunners cant treat other races as equals and the almighty precurses supposidly created the flood.
Yeah some stiff competiton here we should act alot more like them.
In the real world humans hate themselves but we have no idea what a bad species is like, somewhere out there is proberly a race alot worse than us.
HUMANS R DA BEST!
> Why do humans hate themseleves as a race? You never hear the covenint beating themselves up over stuff like this even though they’re just as flawd as we are, proberly more.
>
> What is the difinition of a good race anyway? Even the Precursers the ones that judge who’s good or who’s bad dont sound so good to begin with?
>
> <mark>Prophets are liars, Elites are born warriors, grunts are stupid, jackles are shifty, brutes are violent, hunters follow orders with no thoght as to if what they’re doing is wrong, weve seen drones can jelous and violent in contact harvest, Forerunners cant treat other races as equals and the almighty precurses supposidly created the flood.</mark>
> <mark>Yeah some stiff competiton here we should act alot more like them.</mark>
>
> In the real world humans hate themselves but we have no idea what a bad species is like, somewhere out there is proberly a race alot worse than us.
>
> HUMANS R DA BEST!
Everything you said there can be used to describe humanity both in the real world and the Halo universe (Aside from the flood thing).
> Problem is , they are showing humanity as we truly are. As a whole humanity is a greedy , deceptive , violent , self destructive force of nature. If we ever come together long enough to get this ball of mud , we will likely spread like a parasite through out the Galaxy. Unless whoever we meet is far more advanced , we will either enslave them or destroy them. It is Human nature , unfortunately.
Agent Smith was wrong.
> Bungie trilogy - military sci-fi, humans are the underdogs
>
> 343 trilogy - fantasy military sci-fi, humans are the top dogs
>
> Yeah, although I don’t really like this new direction I love being able to see the humans be victorious for a bit.
I don’t see a difference that explains the word “fantasy”. The first Halo Triology was full of fantasy, too. Only cuz something is harder to explain it doesn’t mean it is “magic” or ‘only"fantasy"’.
In the other points I agree, but I think the fact that humans are the top dogs can change realy fast. And I guess it will.
But on the other side it is good that this thing changes - because beeing always on the underdog position can be realy frustrating.
Also the real character of someone can be only shown if you are superior - and I wonder how the humans will be - but I think/hope, they will be shown alright 
It’s “pro-human” narratives like what Halo seems to be turning into that made Isaac Asimov very rarely write sci-fi about aliens, that is all the publishers really wanted. I can understand why it is happening though, after years of being pushed down and knocked out, humanity can finally stand tall. Yet I don’t really like what it is taking to get there. I had hoped more diplomacy would be tried then straight up renewal to fighting.
I don’t think it’s becoming pro-human, Halo has always been very pro-human, I think it’s becoming too human-centric. That’s to be expected since this is the Reclaimer Trilogy after all, but I think the other races are playing second-fiddle.
That’s why I think that Cryptum is still a breath of fresh air because it’s a completely new, more personal perspective from a Forerunner’s point of view. I’ve always been more interested in the alien POV because the human one is almost always the same thing in a lot of sci-fi stories.
Humanity being the underdog created a better story. It had conflict. Just like how every proper sentence needs a verb, every good story needs conflict. Nobody likes to read a story of some faction just roflstomping every trial that comes their way. To be honest, that’s why Spartan Ops isn’t as good to me as I thought. There needs to be more casualties.
It’s sort of like having the Empire and Rebellion in Star Wars switched. Who wants to see that? Nobody, that’s who.
yes i think its a little bit to much pro human.
when im in gameplay i allways have to babysit on the marines and even other spartens, so why there so good in the sparten ops video’s, and is humanity stronger then ever?. ok there haveing forerunner technology but on planet battlefields ingame there fighting like grunts the weakest race of the covendant.
check out my halo video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4AZjQrBu_g
I think the story should take a more personal turn. Give Master Chief a reason to not trust the UNSC or ONI anymore. You still fight for humanity but not youre not gung ho UNSC eventually. Like in Mass Effect 2 with Shepard and the Alliance.
> yes i think its a little bit to much pro human.
>
> when im in gameplay i allways have to babysit on the marines and even other spartens, so why there so good in the sparten ops video’s, and is humanity stronger then ever?. ok there haveing forerunner technology but on planet battlefields ingame there fighting like grunts the weakest race of the covendant.
>
> check out my halo video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4AZjQrBu_g
well, thats just gameplay talking. In the books in everything the Marines hold their own pretty well against the covenant. The marines have -Yoink- AI, that doesn’t mean that they are hopelessly incompetent canonically.
> Bungie trilogy - military sci-fi, humans are the underdogs
>
> 343 trilogy - fantasy military sci-fi, humans are the top dogs
>
> Yeah, although I don’t really like this new direction I love being able to see the humans be victorious for a bit.
Where the hell does fantasy come into Halo 4?