> You forget the part where the BR is significantly easier to use as you have 3 chances per shot to hit someone instead of one.
lol?
If you only hit a single bullet out of an entire burst, you have only done 1/3rd the damage as a properly aimed burst. This is why the BR takes far more skill than the DMR. YOu have to keep the aim on target across the length of the burst as opposed to just twitching onto the target for the single frame required for the DMR to fire.
The Carbine is equal to the BR because more shots are required in the same amount of time, you have to update you aim much more often.
As for the actual topic, there is no excuse what-so-ever for a 5sk BR. It’s significantly slower in kill times compared to both the DMR and Carbine and thus it’s useless. As a 4sk it has the same kill time and thus the same amount of usefulness.
> According to one guy, the BR is more of a “run ‘n’ gun” weapon than anything else- he also said that it has more aim assist than the other weapons.
>
> And the BR looked far more effective in the videos I watched from RTX than I thought it would be.
>
> This has died down a good deal of my concern or the weapon-although I shall still use the weapon as I can use long kill-time weapons lol
There is a simple reason why all the gameplay that points to the BR not being as underpowered as claimed means nothing.
The DMR and the Carbine both have significantly faster possible kill times. When the game is being played in passing for short periods of time, no one will be maxing out the weapons consistently. No more than a month after release, some players will be consistently getting perfect kill times with these weapons.
At this time, the BR will be 100% useless against the DMR and the Carbine due to the slower kill time thanks to it being a 5 shot kill. If it was a 4 shot kill like it always should have been (seriously, it’s a joke that 343 has even considered making it a 5 shot kill in the first place) than it would be balanced from day one till the day the servers went offline.
> > According to one guy, the BR is more of a “run ‘n’ gun” weapon than anything else- he also said that it has more aim assist than the other weapons.
> >
> > And the BR looked far more effective in the videos I watched from RTX than I thought it would be.
> >
> > This has died down a good deal of my concern or the weapon-although I shall still use the weapon as I can use long kill-time weapons lol
>
> There is a simple reason why all the gameplay that points to the BR not being as underpowered as claimed means nothing.
>
> The DMR and the Carbine both have significantly faster possible kill times. When the game is being played in passing for short periods of time, no one will be maxing out the weapons consistently. No more than a month after release, some players will be consistently getting perfect kill times with these weapons.
>
> At this time, the BR will be 100% useless against the DMR and the Carbine due to the slower kill time thanks to it being a 5 shot kill. If it was a 4 shot kill like it always should have been (seriously, it’s a joke that 343 has even considered making it a 5 shot kill in the first place) than it would be balanced from day one till the day the servers went offline.
I already know that DMR and Carbine have quicker kill times
What I want to know however is: How did they discover the kill times?
Besides, I wont be using the BR as much as that awesome DMR and Assault Rifle.
I’m pretty sure that if it remains a 5SK and is underpowered, it will be mentioned to 343i and they will probably buff the weapon via Cortana Web or something like that.
> > > According to one guy, the BR is more of a “run ‘n’ gun” weapon than anything else- he also said that it has more aim assist than the other weapons.
> > >
> > > And the BR looked far more effective in the videos I watched from RTX than I thought it would be.
> > >
> > > This has died down a good deal of my concern or the weapon-although I shall still use the weapon as I can use long kill-time weapons lol
> >
> > There is a simple reason why all the gameplay that points to the BR not being as underpowered as claimed means nothing.
> >
> > The DMR and the Carbine both have significantly faster possible kill times. When the game is being played in passing for short periods of time, no one will be maxing out the weapons consistently. No more than a month after release, some players will be consistently getting perfect kill times with these weapons.
> >
> > At this time, the BR will be 100% useless against the DMR and the Carbine due to the slower kill time thanks to it being a 5 shot kill. If it was a 4 shot kill like it always should have been (seriously, it’s a joke that 343 has even considered making it a 5 shot kill in the first place) than it would be balanced from day one till the day the servers went offline.
>
> I already know that DMR and Carbine have quicker kill times
>
> What I want to know however is: How did they discover the kill times?
>
> Besides, I wont be using the BR as much as that awesome DMR and Assault Rifle.
>
> I’m pretty sure that if it remains a 5SK and is underpowered, it will be mentioned to 343i and they will probably buff the weapon via Cortana Web or something like that.
Footage of an ideal kill
Frame by frame analysis
???
Profit
> > > > According to one guy, the BR is more of a “run ‘n’ gun” weapon than anything else- he also said that it has more aim assist than the other weapons.
> > > >
> > > > And the BR looked far more effective in the videos I watched from RTX than I thought it would be.
> > > >
> > > > This has died down a good deal of my concern or the weapon-although I shall still use the weapon as I can use long kill-time weapons lol
> > >
> > > There is a simple reason why all the gameplay that points to the BR not being as underpowered as claimed means nothing.
> > >
> > > The DMR and the Carbine both have significantly faster possible kill times. When the game is being played in passing for short periods of time, no one will be maxing out the weapons consistently. No more than a month after release, some players will be consistently getting perfect kill times with these weapons.
> > >
> > > At this time, the BR will be 100% useless against the DMR and the Carbine due to the slower kill time thanks to it being a 5 shot kill. If it was a 4 shot kill like it always should have been (seriously, it’s a joke that 343 has even considered making it a 5 shot kill in the first place) than it would be balanced from day one till the day the servers went offline.
> >
> > I already know that DMR and Carbine have quicker kill times
> >
> > What I want to know however is: How did they discover the kill times?
> >
> > Besides, I wont be using the BR as much as that awesome DMR and Assault Rifle.
> >
> > I’m pretty sure that if it remains a 5SK and is underpowered, it will be mentioned to 343i and they will probably buff the weapon via Cortana Web or something like that.
>
> Footage of an ideal kill
> Frame by frame analysis
> ???
> Profit
I’m not exactly a guy who knows much about analysis stuff
Can better definitions be thought of please?
The Carbine is at least a 7-shot killer and the DMR is a 5-shot killer, with the BR being a 5-shot killer, just using shot counts as means to describe a weapon’s potential kill time is absolutely useless.
It is possible to make the Carbine a 1700ms killer in 7 shots just as easy as it is to make the BR a 4-shot killer in 2500ms or 1000ms.
If you’re going to talk in ideals, ideally you should talk more technically.
Learn to add in shot count with a time when argueing the finer details of weapon comparisons, simply changing the shot count without taking into consideration the time it takes to land those minimum shots shows a lack of understanding.
And yes if you must put the time in every post to maintain clarity, then you must.
We’ll discuss risk-vs-reward, magnetism and reticle size AFTER shot count stops being the focus because kill time itself is the focus of the topic, not the shot count.
> Yes people in the thread let’s make all of the weapons completely 100% balanced so that they all are 100% on par with eachother, let’s forget the fact that some weapons are supposed to be better then others and if they aren’t it kind of makes the point of unlocking new ones irrelevant.
Weapons being balanced does NOT make them exactly the same.
The DMR, Carbine and BR are all different but fill the same roll of being a utility weapon. That is the point of their existence.
The fact that the BR kills in 5 shots just makes it the same as the DMR just slower and require a more steady aim. What is the point?
If it was a 4 shot kill, fired slower but killed in the same time, it would be a different weapon. Then weapons would be chosen on preference as opposed to which is actually worth using and which isn’t.
This definitely has to be done. They really need to stop turning this game into a very causal environment like it is being shown as. halo 2 and 3 had best multiplayer, base it off that.
The only thing I don’t understand is how come the carbine doesn’t have bloom like the dmr? I mean in Halo 3 I had a hard time on the first level trying to snipe the Jackals on the other side of the river because the rifle was pretty inaccurate at long range. Now it seems to have the precision of the sniper, if so then what’s the covenant version of the BR? Maybe they could bring back the needle rifle and make that the covenant version of the DMR and the Carbine the covenant version of the BR.
Sorry if it seems like a bunch of mumbo jumbo, it just seems weird.
> > Yes people in the thread let’s make all of the weapons completely 100% balanced so that they all are 100% on par with eachother, let’s forget the fact that some weapons are supposed to be better then others and if they aren’t it kind of makes the point of unlocking new ones irrelevant.
>
> Weapons being balanced does NOT make them exactly the same.
>
> The DMR, Carbine and BR are all different but fill the same roll of being a utility weapon. That is the point of their existence.
>
> <mark>The fact that the BR kills in 5 shots just makes it the same as the DMR just slower and require a more steady aim. What is the point?</mark>
>
> If it was a 4 shot kill, fired slower but killed in the same time, it would be a different weapon. Then weapons would be chosen on preference as opposed to which is actually worth using and which isn’t.
Reticle size, magnetism range (red reticle), magnetism potency and spread determines whether or not a weapon requires more or less steady aim than another.
If the DMR has less magnetism influence and/or a smaller reticle than the BR, then the DMR would require steadier aim than the BR.
This is called risk-vs-reward and it is something you keep dismissing by reducing weapons down to shot counts alone.
> > The only thing I don’t understand is how come the carbine doesn’t have bloom like the dmr?
>
> As far as I’ve read and seen, the DMR bloom is visual only.
>
> No different to crouching with 85% bloom in Reach.
More than likely works as I stated players would love it way long ago.
The bloom only expands to the size of the reticle and only becomes an issue outside of magnetism range.
Meaning spamming the weapon in short, even most mid-ranges won’t effect accuracy too much because the magnetism keeps the weapon accurate. When spamming outside of magnetism range, the spread isn’t effected by said magnetism and so acts like the 85% DMR where shots are still accurate but not precise enough to reliably headshot mid-range and greater.
… A very empowering and Halo feeling system.
> People on these forums just conform to anything that 343 does instead of listening to actual reason and facts given by people from the ‘competitive community’ from AA’s all the way to ranking systems, weapons, and game mechanics.
>
> Lower aim assist on the DMR won’t be an issue to the best players once they adapt to the gun and the aiming due to muscle memory, it may be a harder shot but it will be more rewarding, more kills to the clip, faster kill times, any distance.
My reasoning regarding this 4 vs 5 shot discussion. 95 % of the arguments I hear is 1. The BR was a 4 shot in previous games, and 2. The kill times is slightly longer compared to similar weapons.
The first argument I find invalid because, face it, this is not Halo 2 or Halo 3.
The second argument I also find hard to offer much support to because it only takes into account one number (minimum kill time) in the whole “balance-equation”. On top of that those numbers is taken from frame dissections off of videos on the internet. That’s not exactly some super precise sience, especially considering there aren’t that many videos out there where you have those perfect moments of minimum kill times with said weapons, and when you think you have there might still be something you haven’t taken into account because every game is against others, not just two characters standing still and shooting each other.
No one outside of 343i have so far done a more scientific analysis of the kill time (as far as I know). No one have any data on the outcome of duels with different weapons except for 343i. The “competitive comunity” have played a couple of games of Halo 4 on different events across the North America, 343i and Microsoft have played probably hundreds, if not thousands of games in the closed alfa/beta. At this moment I trust more in 343i’s decision to make the BR a 5 shot, not because they have better arguments but because they have more and better data than the community so far.
I have no doubt in the community and I belive that it will create some awesome analyses and spreadsheets, but with the amount of information that is currently released there is no way to create such an detailed analyze.
You talk about trusting the facts and still you make assumtions about how the game will play?
… The Carbine used to be 9-shots in H2 and H3 and potentially killed faster than the BR. However magnetism and spread characteristics still made the BR the “better” choice, even without button combos and even though the BR took longer to kill.
PS: If the BR isn’t used as often as the DMR or Carbine, but the DMR and Carbine are comparatively used more than the BR ever was in a precious games, then uselessness has been avoided much better than before.
