Do you think 343 will make the Right Decision

Games Other Halo
41

> > > > > Holy crap, people will -Yoink!- about every little thing won’t they? I guess that’s all forums are for now-a-days. Why don’t we wait until there is a game in front of us before you all start herp derping all over the forums demanding stuff? Guess common sense is out the window too.
> > > > >
> > > > > When has there EVER been 100% complete balance for one class of weapons?<mark>Pretty sure the BR & DMR(In Reach)</mark> have always been better in the precision weapons department in past Halo games. Let’s not take into consideration that the Covenant & Forerunners have far more advanced weapons techology than the humans. But yeah, let’s make all the guns kill you exactly the same, let’s just have different bullet effects for the guns. Give me a freaking break and take a moment to realize how irrational you’re being. Please.
> > > >
> > > > quit being a Yoink!, these forums are for discussing real concerns about the game, none of the things we say (for the most part) are from actual hands on experiance, they are just from what we have seen.
> > > > If anything is pointless here its your responding to this thread when absolutely nothing your saying will have any effect on the community.
> > > >
> > > > ps. the BR wasnt in reach…
> > >
> > > Never said the BR was in Reach, did I? I specifically pointed out that the DMR was the superior precision weapon (IN REACH).
> >
> > sure sounds like it…
>
> Why do you think I put the ()'s after the DMR? Maybe to point out that it was just in Reach perhaps? Just drop it, since you obviously don’t get it.

whats obvious is that you dont understand how and when to use them.

42

> > > And buff the BR up to a 4 shot kill with slightly less aim assist, or pull a Reach and nerf every other precision weapon instead?
> >
> > No, keeping it the current way sounds like the right decision. It’s really sounding like the people that want it to be stronger just so that they can limit the game down to one gun and not have to learn anything new.
>
> First off, precision weapons will always be the dominant weapon in Halo. That’s the way it has always been, there is no getting around that.
>
> Secondly, the BR is significantly slower in terms of killing power than the DMR and Carbine, there have been multiple threads posted showing the kill times of all three weapons in their current state ( DMR and Carbine are about 1.4, BR is about 1.8). If the BR were to become a 4 shot, all three weapons would be at around a 1.4, BR still being slightly slower. With the kill times all the same, the range aspect of each weapon determines its usefulness from there. The BR wont instantly be better than the DMR and Carbine at range because it still has spread.
>
> And finally, nobody is taking into account how connection will effect the BR online. 5 shot kill BR with spread, online latency, and only enough bullets in a mag for about 2 kills. Putting it at a 4 shot with slightly reduced aim assist will reduce the impact connection has on the weapon as well as making it the traditional 3 kill maximum per mag (which the DMR currently still is).

You forget the part where the BR is significantly easier to use as you have 3 chances per shot to hit someone instead of one.

43

> > > > > > > Holy crap, people will -Yoink!- about every little thing won’t they? I guess that’s all forums are for now-a-days. Why don’t we wait until there is a game in front of us before you all start herp derping all over the forums demanding stuff? Guess common sense is out the window too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When has there EVER been 100% complete balance for one class of weapons? Pretty sure the BR & DMR(In Reach) have always been better in the precision weapons department in past Halo games. Let’s not take into consideration that the Covenant & Forerunners have far more advanced weapons techology than the humans. <mark>But yeah, let’s make all the guns kill you exactly the same, let’s just have different bullet effects for the guns. Give me a freaking break and take a moment to realize how irrational you’re being. Please.</mark>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First and foremost this is a game and whenever there is a mulitplayer component it must be balanced otherwise nobody would want to play it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YOU are being irrational.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you’re saying nobody played Halo 2, 3, or Reach? All of them had unbalance in the precision weapons. MY ARGUMENT IS SIMPLY THIS: Would you all be making a fuss if the carbine had a .4 second-less kill time than the BR? I HIGHLY doubt it.
> > > >
> > > > Weapon behavior, rate of fire, shots to kill, scope, and all those shooting elements are very important in balancing the weapons against one another.
> > > >
> > > > It is not just about the kill times…
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, if the BR was a 4 shot but was on par or slightly faster than the other weapons it would still be harder to use since it has spread which makes the gun have a certain margin of error whereas the Carbine and DMR are pin point accurate over any range.
> > > >
> > > > When the BR has a slower rate of fire than the other guns but only takes 4 shots to kill the average kill time is much greater b/c the time it takes to shoot the 5th shot of you don’t land all 4 will allow the DMR to shoot 2 more shots or the Carbine to shoot 4.
> > > >
> > > > Again, it is not a matter of kill time as much as it is tweaking the weapon behavior, damage and rate of fire in order to make it different yet just as effective from the other weapons.
> > > >
> > > > <mark>At this point the DMR and Carbine are better than the BR even if its ever so slightly.</mark>
> > >
> > > I’d like to see you prove this statement. That the DMR and Carbine beat out the BR every single time.
> >
> > Quite a lot of footage over the past few weeks.
> >
> > Not gonna waste time providing you a source b/c if you haven’t seen it at this point then you don’t care.
>
> I’ve seen the footage. And I have to say, I see no discernable difference between the performance of the BR and DMR. The BR certainly isn’t underpowered, though, half the kills I saw were made with it.
>
> Actually, after seeing the footage, I think the BR is actually easier to kill someone with compared to the DMR and Carbine. When someone used a 1-shotter, they would almost inevitably miss a couple of times, while the guy with the BR was guaranteed to hit since the BR fired multiple shots, 1 or 2 of which would almost always hit as long as the guy’s aim wasn’t horrendous.
>
> It’s especially easy with headshots, since 1 bullet is able to kill someone and the BR shoots, you know, 3.

Was actually about to post something like this. I see no real reason to make the BR a 4sk other than for nostalgic purposes. The videos posted today of 343i vs. the community gave me the impression the BR was <mark>over</mark>powered, if anything.

Other than that, the H4 BR is designed as a short-mid range precision weapon (a fact some people seem to forget), which it currently fits quite well from what I’ve seen.

44

Its fine how it is.

In all of the MLG videos of H4 I’ve seen, almost every person was rocking the BR for most of the games. If it was so slow and terrible, I’m sure they would have realized that (being pros and all) and started only using the Carbine and DMR: But they didn’t. (I barely got to see any of the carbine and DMR; which I’m upset about).

So I’m sure ease of use was a real game changer for them…(or nostalgia…which I wouldn’t put past Halo Elitists).

45

Depends on what actually happens to the sandbox if they do that change. Buffing one weapon can indirectly nerf everything else, for better or for worse.

Though I’ve seen footage, I’ve yet to see a list of how many shots everything else takes to kill another player.

Basically, I would like for it to happen, but not if it were to mess the sandbox up and make me feel like I need the Battle Rifle to be able to survive when I respawn. :confused:

46

> > > > > > > Holy crap, people will -Yoink!- about every little thing won’t they? I guess that’s all forums are for now-a-days. Why don’t we wait until there is a game in front of us before you all start herp derping all over the forums demanding stuff? Guess common sense is out the window too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When has there EVER been 100% complete balance for one class of weapons? Pretty sure the BR & DMR(In Reach) have always been better in the precision weapons department in past Halo games. Let’s not take into consideration that the Covenant & Forerunners have far more advanced weapons techology than the humans. <mark>But yeah, let’s make all the guns kill you exactly the same, let’s just have different bullet effects for the guns. Give me a freaking break and take a moment to realize how irrational you’re being. Please.</mark>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First and foremost this is a game and whenever there is a mulitplayer component it must be balanced otherwise nobody would want to play it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YOU are being irrational.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you’re saying nobody played Halo 2, 3, or Reach? All of them had unbalance in the precision weapons. MY ARGUMENT IS SIMPLY THIS: Would you all be making a fuss if the carbine had a .4 second-less kill time than the BR? I HIGHLY doubt it.
> > > >
> > > > Weapon behavior, rate of fire, shots to kill, scope, and all those shooting elements are very important in balancing the weapons against one another.
> > > >
> > > > It is not just about the kill times…
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, if the BR was a 4 shot but was on par or slightly faster than the other weapons it would still be harder to use since it has spread which makes the gun have a certain margin of error whereas the Carbine and DMR are pin point accurate over any range.
> > > >
> > > > When the BR has a slower rate of fire than the other guns but only takes 4 shots to kill the average kill time is much greater b/c the time it takes to shoot the 5th shot of you don’t land all 4 will allow the DMR to shoot 2 more shots or the Carbine to shoot 4.
> > > >
> > > > Again, it is not a matter of kill time as much as it is tweaking the weapon behavior, damage and rate of fire in order to make it different yet just as effective from the other weapons.
> > > >
> > > > <mark>At this point the DMR and Carbine are better than the BR even if its ever so slightly.</mark>
> > >
> > > I’d like to see you prove this statement. That the DMR and Carbine beat out the BR every single time.
> >
> > Quite a lot of footage over the past few weeks.
> >
> > Not gonna waste time providing you a source b/c if you haven’t seen it at this point then you don’t care.
>
> I’ve seen the footage. And I have to say, I see no discernable difference between the performance of the BR and DMR. The BR certainly isn’t underpowered, though, half the kills I saw were made with it.
>
> Actually, after seeing the footage, I think the BR is actually easier to kill someone with compared to the DMR and Carbine. When someone used a 1-shotter, they would almost inevitably miss a couple of times, while the guy with the BR was guaranteed to hit since the BR fired multiple shots, 1 or 2 of which would almost always hit as long as the guy’s aim wasn’t horrendous.
>
> It’s especially easy with headshots, since 1 bullet is able to kill someone and the BR shoots, you know, 3.

The BR is quite a cherished weapon so people will naturally flock to it. The Carbine was never popular so people would rather use the other rifles. DMR is in Reach so people try not to use what they already have.

Its the same reason people don’t call in the Needler in an ordinance drop despite it being so powerful now that it is a second tier power weapon.

People will use whatever is popular and for the time being the BR is popular due to nostalgia alone.

Once the novelty of having the BR back wears off people will see that it is worse than the Carbine and the DMR but its just a matter of when…

Sure the kill times don’t tell the entire story but is a large part of the entire picture and currently the BR is lacking.

47

One thing people seem to forget is that there is more of a sandbox than just the DMR, Carbine and BR. I won’t claim to now the perfect to balance all the weapons like certain people, but what I will say is, have you thought about how it affects the other weapons? The game isn’t even out yet, we probably don’t know all of the weapons, or how they are in a fight, their kill times and all. So maybe 343i actually knows what they’re doing, and they’re keeping the entire sandbox in mind, and keeping that balanced. Don’t forget about those other weapons in the sandbox, they have a place too!

48

> One thing people seem to forget is that there is more of a sandbox than just the DMR, Carbine and BR. I won’t claim to now the perfect to balance all the weapons like certain people, but what I will say is, have you thought about how it affects the other weapons? The game isn’t even out yet, we probably don’t know all of the weapons, or how they are in a fight, their kill times and all. So maybe 343i actually knows what they’re doing, and they’re keeping the entire sandbox in mind, and keeping that balanced. Don’t forget about those other weapons in the sandbox, they have a place too!

If the BR has a slower rate of fire then it will be much less effective in short range…

This isn’t coming out of my butt, a lot of thought has went into this breakdown and analysis.

49

> One thing people seem to forget is that there is more of a sandbox than just the DMR, Carbine and BR. I won’t claim to now the perfect to balance all the weapons like certain people, but what I will say is, have you thought about how it affects the other weapons? The game isn’t even out yet, we probably don’t know all of the weapons, or how they are in a fight, their kill times and all. So maybe 343i actually knows what they’re doing, and they’re keeping the entire sandbox in mind, and keeping that balanced. Don’t forget about those other weapons in the sandbox, they have a place too!

The precision weapons will always be dominant in Halo though, no matter what 343 does. Weapons with a large skill gap can and should be able to barely beat other weapons in their niche if the player is good enough to do it. That being said, the AR and the Storm Rifle definitely look powerful enough to annihilate the precision weapons at close range. This was the case in Halo 3 also though, despite how much people complained about the BR being the “god tier” weapon. If you got killed by a BR user at close range when you were using the AR, then it was entirely your fault period. It wasn’t because the BR was cheap, it’s because you couldn’t aim.

50

> > One thing people seem to forget is that there is more of a sandbox than just the DMR, Carbine and BR. I won’t claim to now the perfect to balance all the weapons like certain people, but what I will say is, have you thought about how it affects the other weapons? The game isn’t even out yet, we probably don’t know all of the weapons, or how they are in a fight, their kill times and all. So maybe 343i actually knows what they’re doing, and they’re keeping the entire sandbox in mind, and keeping that balanced. Don’t forget about those other weapons in the sandbox, they have a place too!
>
> If the BR has a slower rate of fire then it will be much less effective in short range…
>
> This isn’t coming out of my butt, a lot of thought has went into this breakdown and analysis.

I understand you’ve put a lot of thought into this, but we still don’t know the entire sandbox, and 343 does. So they might not have showed us things that pertain to the reason for it being like that. Not to mention from what I’ve heard, the other weapons get harder to use outside of their respective ranges. I haven’t played the game myself, so I have no concrete evidence, and when people want someone to agree with them, or they want to make a point, facts tend to get… twisted. So I don’t entirely trust all the people who made the threads about the BR and other weapons. Plus you said the kill time was 1.8? Last I heard it was something like 1.67… And about the nostalgia and love of the BR, the facts for that may have been distorted as well, so until I actually play the game, I think I withhold my final judgement upon this subject. Not that I’m saying people complaining isn’t good, it shows how much they truly care, but we don’t know everything about the game yet so what we think is right now may be proven incorrect at a later date.

51

343? Making the right decision? Yeah right…

52

From the recent videos ive seen it looks like it is a 4sk, it took them 5 shots most of the time because they missed 2 bullets in one of their bursts, and if I remember correctly it takes all 3 bullets in the last burst to finish the kill.

53

> > > One thing people seem to forget is that there is more of a sandbox than just the DMR, Carbine and BR. I won’t claim to now the perfect to balance all the weapons like certain people, but what I will say is, have you thought about how it affects the other weapons? The game isn’t even out yet, we probably don’t know all of the weapons, or how they are in a fight, their kill times and all. So maybe 343i actually knows what they’re doing, and they’re keeping the entire sandbox in mind, and keeping that balanced. Don’t forget about those other weapons in the sandbox, they have a place too!
> >
> > If the BR has a slower rate of fire then it will be much less effective in short range…
> >
> > This isn’t coming out of my butt, a lot of thought has went into this breakdown and analysis.
>
> I understand you’ve put a lot of thought into this, but we still don’t know the entire sandbox, and 343 does. So they might not have showed us things that pertain to the reason for it being like that. Not to mention from what I’ve heard, the other weapons get harder to use outside of their respective ranges. I haven’t played the game myself, so I have no concrete evidence, and when people want someone to agree with them, or they want to make a point, facts tend to get… twisted. So I don’t entirely trust all the people who made the threads about the BR and other weapons. Plus you said the kill time was 1.8? Last I heard it was something like 1.67… And about the nostalgia and love of the BR, the facts for that may have been distorted as well, so until I actually play the game, I think I withhold my final judgement upon this subject. Not that I’m saying people complaining isn’t good, it shows how much they truly care, but we don’t know everything about the game yet so what we think is right now may be proven incorrect at a later date.

The kill time was cited by someone else however the thing that I have been trying to explain is that a lot more goes into balancing a weapon than simply the kill time.

The kill time that is collected is based on the optimal kill time. When the BR has a slower rate of fire and less shots to hit then the average kill time goes up. The gun is easier to aim and hit with due to the larger reticule and spread so it is relatively easy to use compared to the pin point accuracy and high rate of fire of the DMR and Carbine.

The BR with a slower rate of fire makes each shot count that much more so there is an inherit punishment to missing with such a easy to shoot weapon. This makes the weapon take more skill to use and by no way makes it overpowered if the DMR and Carbine have the same kill time as the BR; if anything it makes the BR weaker b/c the average kill time is longer.

When the DMR has a slower rate of fire then it becomes less powerful in close range allowing for things like the AR and Storm Rifle among other weapons to defeat it making it so that the Carbine is more of a Short to Middle range, the DMR a Medium to Long range and the BR a Medium range which is exponentially less effective as it moves in either direction of the range spectrum.

This would make each weapon completely unique to one another instead of the convoluted mess of homogenous weapons.

54

I don’t really wanna ask for change before playing it

55

> > > > And buff the BR up to a 4 shot kill with slightly less aim assist, or pull a Reach and nerf every other precision weapon instead?
> > >
> > > No, keeping it the current way sounds like the right decision. It’s really sounding like the people that want it to be stronger just so that they can limit the game down to one gun and not have to learn anything new.
> >
> > First off, precision weapons will always be the dominant weapon in Halo. That’s the way it has always been, there is no getting around that.
> >
> > Secondly, the BR is significantly slower in terms of killing power than the DMR and Carbine, there have been multiple threads posted showing the kill times of all three weapons in their current state ( DMR and Carbine are about 1.4, BR is about 1.8). If the BR were to become a 4 shot, all three weapons would be at around a 1.4, BR still being slightly slower. With the kill times all the same, the range aspect of each weapon determines its usefulness from there. The BR wont instantly be better than the DMR and Carbine at range because it still has spread.
> >
> > And finally, nobody is taking into account how connection will effect the BR online. 5 shot kill BR with spread, online latency, and only enough bullets in a mag for about 2 kills. Putting it at a 4 shot with slightly reduced aim assist will reduce the impact connection has on the weapon as well as making it the traditional 3 kill maximum per mag (which the DMR currently still is).
>
> You forget the part where the BR is significantly easier to use as you have 3 chances per shot to hit someone instead of one.

No sir. Quite the opposite in fact.

The BR in Halo 3 was a 4 burst kill. Meaning all 4 bursts had to hit. That’s 12 bullets to land. I don’t remember if it was actually a 12 shot, or an 11 or 10, but still, that requires you to be aiming at the player for the entire duration of the burst, not just the single shot. Thus making it more difficult, especially at longer range. The last shot in the last burst also has to be lined up to hit the head, which means that entire burst has to all hit and prepare for that last shot, which is more difficult than breaking shields with a shot and hitting the head next.

Why not give it a 4 shot instead of 5 with a kill time of 1.4 to match the other two, have a different number of shots to kill than the other two to make them different and call it a day? I see no reason not to.

I’m probably using the Carbine anyway. Love the thing. But it doesn’t mean BR players should have to count on their opponents missing in order to kill, even if both start shooting at the same time.

56

> > > > > And buff the BR up to a 4 shot kill with slightly less aim assist, or pull a Reach and nerf every other precision weapon instead?
> > > >
> > > > No, keeping it the current way sounds like the right decision. It’s really sounding like the people that want it to be stronger just so that they can limit the game down to one gun and not have to learn anything new.
> > >
> > > First off, precision weapons will always be the dominant weapon in Halo. That’s the way it has always been, there is no getting around that.
> > >
> > > Secondly, the BR is significantly slower in terms of killing power than the DMR and Carbine, there have been multiple threads posted showing the kill times of all three weapons in their current state ( DMR and Carbine are about 1.4, BR is about 1.8). If the BR were to become a 4 shot, all three weapons would be at around a 1.4, BR still being slightly slower. With the kill times all the same, the range aspect of each weapon determines its usefulness from there. The BR wont instantly be better than the DMR and Carbine at range because it still has spread.
> > >
> > > And finally, nobody is taking into account how connection will effect the BR online. 5 shot kill BR with spread, online latency, and only enough bullets in a mag for about 2 kills. Putting it at a 4 shot with slightly reduced aim assist will reduce the impact connection has on the weapon as well as making it the traditional 3 kill maximum per mag (which the DMR currently still is).
> >
> > You forget the part where the BR is significantly easier to use as you have 3 chances per shot to hit someone instead of one.
>
> No sir. Quite the opposite in fact.
>
> The BR in Halo 3 was a 4 burst kill. Meaning all 4 bursts had to hit. That’s 12 bullets to land. I don’t remember if it was actually a 12 shot, or an 11 or 10, but still, that requires you to be aiming at the player for the entire duration of the burst, not just the single shot. Thus making it more difficult, especially at longer range. The last shot in the last burst also has to be lined up to hit the head, which means that entire burst has to all hit and prepare for that last shot, which is more difficult than breaking shields with a shot and hitting the head next.
>
> Why not give it a 4 shot instead of 5 with a kill time of 1.4 to match the other two, have a different number of shots to kill than the other two to make them different and call it a day? I see no reason not to.
>
> I’m probably using the Carbine anyway. Love the thing. But it doesn’t mean BR players should have to count on their opponents missing in order to kill, even if both start shooting at the same time.

The BR isn’t even a long range weapon. At it’s intended range it is the most powerful, as it should be. From all the gameplay I’ve seen people have been doing much better with the BR than the other two, as they always missed with them. The BR having three shots does mean you have to keep the reticle aimed at the other player, but this only makes the next shot easier. Also, with the single shot you either hit them or you don’t. With burst you may only hit them a little, but you still hit them, as well as headshots are literally three times easier to get.

57

Each precision rifle is supposed to serve its own purpose right? The br is said to be better at close rang than the dmr. Dmr is more of a long range weapon. The aim assist is different on each gun. It’s not all about kill times tbh. They should just increase rof.

Carbine>dmr>br = kill times

Carbine>br>dmr = close range

Dmr>Carbine≥br = long range

Carbin≥dmr>br = mid range, debatable

I can see why the carbine is getting a “tad” nerf. With this, the br should get an increase in rof. Bloom, aim assist and other factors play into a guns effectiveness. Can anyone tell me if Carbine has bloom, because I don’t recall it?

58

I just want the BR to be balanced. If they make it a 4-shot and a slower RoF I think it could be balanced, but if they keep the same kill time I don’t see it working…

The Carbine kills much faster and the DMR too which has even longer range, so in the BR’s current form it’s basically useless to me.

Sure, some people might think that people are nostalgic and just want the Halo 2 BR back, and that’s completely right on my part. I think it’d be balanced if it was a 4-shot gun but I haven’t seen it done yet in Halo 4 so how would I know? If it’s good and balanced with being 4-shot with some little adjustments then I’m fine, I just can’t deal with it’s current form. The kill time is just way too slow, and you can’t deny it wasn’t very well balanced in this build.

59

One thing that really stood out to me in the 343 vs community game was that when Bravo picked up the damage boost the BR became a 3sk, so if we were to have a 4sk BR then with damage boost it will become a 2sk, which is RIDICULOUS!!

60

> One thing that really stood out to me in the 343 vs community game was that when Bravo picked up the damage boost the BR became a 3sk, so if we were to have a 4sk BR then with damage boost it will become a 2sk, which is RIDICULOUS!!

But that 3 shots would take just as long to shoot 2 shots if the RoF is slowed down…