While I personally love the pro settings I’m not sure they should be the same as ranked.
I feel like ranked with AR/sidekick starts and radar, with the rest of pro settings would be a great middle ground.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think there is room for more ranked playlists. Perhaps BR/AR with radar, like H3 Team Slayer. That was always a popular playlist. But that would require some weapon tuning because the BR/AR loadout isn’t quite balanced within itself.
There’s also a thread floating around asking for ranked BTB and that’s an idea I can get behind, because I’m not interested in AR starts. So maybe ranked would offer a BR alternative.
Traditionally ranked modes in Halo have always featured precision utility starts though, so I don’t know that your suggestion would end up being very popular. There is an expectation from the existing community that ranked have a utility weapon.
AR/Magnum starts were a thing in H5 because the Magnum played the part of utility, but the same can’t be said for the Sidekick as 343 has squarely painted it into a very specific role. Franky I’m not interested in AR starts at all in this game without a sandbox overhaul.
So I think a social/ranked split makes some amount of sense to separate AR and BR starts. It’s imperfect. And I liked 343s attempt at a universal loadout in H5, but they obviously viewed it as a failure. So I think the separation they’ve made will stand.
However, I hope with you that there is some grey area. Whether is a social match composer that allows for BR options in social, or an onboarding ranked playlists like BR/AR Team Slayer in Halo 3.
But like I said: I think we’d need to limit the ARs range and remove it’s headshot bonus. And speed up the BRs ROF and perhaps slow down it’s projectile speed or limit its assists in some way. Because right now the gulf between the BR’s and AR’s kill times is so wide it makes the balance very rock/paper/scissors rather than focusing on skillful gunplay. And skillful gunplay is essential to ranked Halo, even in a more casual playlist with a hybrid loadout and radar.
What you’re calling Ranked and Pro are collectively and inherently Competitive. What we have here are matchmaking services representative of the two distinct and wide-net play styles within the Halo franchise: Social and Competitive. To cross-pollinate them by degrees of competative-ness totally misses the point of separating them in the first place.
There is an elegant simplicity to the current lineup. If you want the sandbox in all it’s glory, play Social. If you want to get white knuckled and heated, play the Competitive. Both are designed for their intended purpose, and I don’t see reason in competitive-lite playlists.
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> What you’re calling Ranked and Pro are collectively and inherently Competitive. What we have here are matchmaking services representative of the distinct and clearly defined play styles within the Halo franchise: Social and Competitive. To cross-pollinate them by degrees of competative-ness totally misses the point of separating them in the first place.
>
> There is a simple elegance to the current lineup. If you want the sandbox in all it’s glory, play Social. If you want to get white knuckled and heated, play the Ranked Competitive. I don’t see reason is mixing them.
What would you say to players who want BR starts in BTB but with radar on because of vehicles?
If social is all AR/radar…
And ranked is all BR/no radar…
I think there is a sizable group in the community that would value and use playlists that aren’t strictly what we played in the flights OR what was shown off as the HCS settings.
Ranked = Competitive play
Pro = top of the competitive scene.
So yes, I would say Pro and Ranked are pretty much closely linked even if they aren’t exactly the same thing.
Honestly though? I would much rather the Competitive/Ranked modes started on ARs ONLY (if they get nerfed)
The BR is too strong of a staple compared to the rest of the sandbox, save power weapons, that there is literally no sense picking anything else up.
At least with AR starts, it’s powerful enough to take down another player in good time within its threat range, but it’s weak enough that other weapons in the sandbox have a chance to fight against it.
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> > 2533274805469694;3:
> >
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> What would you say to players who want BR starts in BTB but with radar on because of vehicles?
I’d say there are plenty of BRs on the map, and custom games are also an option.
I’m not saying your suggestion/tastes are wrong, only that it makes the Social/Ranked dichotomy pointless.
But that’s just me. Whatever happens, happens. I’m just saying that I see and respect their intentions implied by these design decisions, and that what’s being suggested here essentially dismantles that.
Which is, y’know, whatever. It’s not my game, I’m just playing it.
> 2535439803298950;5:
> Ranked = Competitive play
> Pro = top of the competitive scene.
>
> So yes, I would say Pro and Ranked are pretty much closely linked even if they aren’t exactly the same thing.
>
> Honestly though? I would much rather the Competitive/Ranked modes started on ARs ONLY (if they get nerfed)
> The BR is too strong of a staple compared to the rest of the sandbox, save power weapons, that there is literally no sense picking anything else up.
>
> At least with AR starts, it’s powerful enough to take down another player in good time within its threat range, but it’s weak enough that other weapons in the sandbox have a chance to fight against it.
You realize the BRs optimal kill time is the slowest in the game save the disruptor and plasma pistol, right? And that’s letting alone it’s even longer average kill time. It doesn’t lord over the sandbox like the way people frame it. The AR is objectively more powerful (minus it’s range) and is more likely to limit the use of weapons–especially cqc weapons like the heatwave for example.
Most everything kills faster than the BR or adds some niche that the BR doesn’t fit into like plasma weapons stripping shields. The BR does not make Halo a one gun game. Much less Halo infinite which has quick kill times and interesting and useful mechanics.
I’m not against the ranked settings they revealed or anything, in fact I’m excited for them, but I don’t see why they couldn’t just stick with the regular ranked and hardcore playlist approach they’ve done in the past.
I was under the impression that they were outlining the HCS playlist and it makes sense for it to be exactly like pro play to facilitate players who might want to give the open bracket a try.
I’m sure there will be other ranked playlists with different settings, just like other Halo games.
> 2535431933064458;9:
> I was under the impression that they were outlining the HCS playlist and it makes sense for it to be exactly like pro play to facilitate players who might want to give the open bracket a try.
>
> I’m sure there will be other ranked playlists with different settings, just like other Halo games.
The way the blog post was written up makes it seem like those will be the settings for all ranked playlists, not just the HCS one.
I like the settings as far as HCS goes, but I also hope you’re right we get other ranked playlists with different settings.
Personally, I’d like to see:
social playlists (same settings as flight)
ranked playlists (mix of AR and BR starts with radar and friendly fire on)
HCS playlists (settings revealed yesterday)
> 2533274833576927;2:
> I think there is room for more ranked playlists. Perhaps BR/AR with radar, like H3 Team Slayer. That was always a popular playlist. But that would require some weapon tuning because the BR/AR loadout isn’t quite balanced within itself.
>
> There’s also a thread floating around asking for ranked BTB and that’s an idea I can get behind, because I’m not interested in AR starts. So maybe ranked would offer a BR alternative.
>
> Traditionally ranked modes in Halo have always featured precision utility starts though, so I don’t know that your suggestion would end up being very popular. There is an expectation from the existing community that ranked have a utility weapon.
>
> AR/Magnum starts were a thing in H5 because the Magnum played the part of utility, but the same can’t be said for the Sidekick as 343 has squarely painted it into a very specific role. Franky I’m not interested in AR starts at all in this game without a sandbox overhaul.
>
> So I think a social/ranked split makes some amount of sense to separate AR and BR starts. It’s imperfect. And I liked 343s attempt at a universal loadout in H5, but they obviously viewed it as a failure. So I think the separation they’ve made will stand.
>
> However, I hope with you that there is some grey area. Whether is a social match composer that allows for BR options in social, or an onboarding ranked playlists like BR/AR Team Slayer in Halo 3.
>
> But like I said: I think we’d need to limit the ARs range and remove it’s headshot bonus. And speed up the BRs ROF and perhaps slow down it’s projectile speed or limit its assists in some way. Because right now the gulf between the BR’s and AR’s kill times is so wide it makes the balance very rock/paper/scissors rather than focusing on skillful gunplay. And skillful gunplay is essential to ranked Halo, even in a more casual playlist with a hybrid loadout and radar.
Ranked btb is a great idea. I understand the community being hesitant of auto starts but I’m not convinced it reduces skill more so changes priorities but perhaps a secondary utility pistol like the H5 magnum could bridge the gap. Personally despite it being my favourite fps weapon since halo 2 the dominance of it in ranked and pro has grown stale to play and watch and to see players adapt to not having that golden gun perhaps at all for entire matches excites me.
Vigg the Pale ever play semi-pro Rugby?
The game is as competitive as international (its were our internationals get most games before making it to full-time international squad picks and most play in both leagues for years) but as is the case world wide the ruleset differs from professional international play. So im not convinced by that argument although I certainly understand your preference for uniformity.
I know I’m a minority its probably to only antitradition change im for.
My ideal pro settings as a spectator would have to side arm only starts so plays weren’t reliant on inherent base player traits.
BTW anyone else’s notifications busted?
It’s always seemed strange to me that they would even bother separating ranked settings and tournament settings.
Unpopular opinion: Competitive settings when it has to do with SMG or AR starts versus BR starts have always been better for casual players. Is “casual” the same as “social”? maybe, maybe not. But, it’s very frustrating for someone who doesn’t spend all the time figuring out where everything is and how to navigate the map to compete with someone who always has a better weapon for mid-ranges.
The only difference should be Radar when looking at the base variants.
> 2533274810177460;12:
> It’s always seemed strange to me that they would even bother separating ranked settings and tournament settings.
It doesn’t seem that strange to me. I look at it the same way I look at football. Pick up games with your friends (social) have the basic rule structure but are pretty lax on penalties and just for fun. College games (ranked) are a real test of your skill but slightly more forgiving. And the NFL (pro), which has slight rule variations from college level, is when only the best of the best can really compete.
I agree. On Halo 3 I really enjoyed playing ranked playlists, but didn’t really enjoy ones with MLG settings as much though. It would be awesome if we had a ranked system like that where it’s more normal settings, but more competitive than social games. Enjoyed that aspect where you would play tougher and tougher opponents as your rank increased in specific playlists. Also Halo 3 had a great numeric rank progression. I hope we get something like that again. Also, Lone wolves would be great to have again!
I agree with your sentiment, it’s not just two different playstyles between social and ranked, it’s two different mindsets.
Maybe I like AR starts and radar and mostly play casual, but sometimes I want to play hard with some team mates and really try to win. I don’t want to have to ruin someone’s casual, relaxed game by being sweaty in it (the same way I don’t want to have my casual relaxed game where I’m just chatting with friends about random things or solo queuing for fun ruined by a full competitive playing team of sweats).
I realised this when I was playing arena slayer in the second flight, and I actually said “team, I’m disappointed in you” because they were playing like trash and I had to carry them. Then I thought “hang on, these people are probably not that good at the game and just want to have fun - this is a social playlist - I’m being a -Yoink- here”.
So even though I’m not a pro player, and I might not want pro settings most of the time, I think it’s still good to have an environment where the more casual players can go hard without having to play by HCS rules.
Same thing with BTB ranked - it’s a great idea because it creates an environment for those who really want to play to win in BTB that’s separate from the casual, sit back and relax social BTB that we’ve already tried (with the more randomness and hyper abundance of power weapons that makes it less competitive).
> 2544667825176774;16:
> …
> I realised this when I was playing arena slayer in the second flight, and I actually said “team, I’m disappointed in you” because they were playing like trash and I had to carry them. Then I thought “hang on, these people are probably not that good at the game and just want to have fun - this is a social playlist - I’m being a -Yoink- here”.
>
> So even though I’m not a pro player, and I might not want pro settings most of the time, I think it’s still good to have an environment where the more casual players can go hard without having to play by HCS rules.
> …
Ranked definitely needs to be more inviting for casual players. (bear in mind, “casual” is different than “social”)
Similarly, social playlists need to be more inviting to casual players who enjoy trying to win.
As a result, you end up with a game that isn’t inviting to casual players at all.
Essentially, casual players go into a playlist wanting to get into battle right away and experience balanced engagements. They prefer individual skill over team skill, so AR starts isn’t always the best option. They also don’t want to feel like they let their team down but also don’t want teammates that let them down. - whether it’s Ranked or Social, it doesn’t matter.
> 2535411919953126;1:
> While I personally love the pro settings I’m not sure they should be the same as ranked.
>
> I feel like ranked with AR/sidekick starts and radar, with the rest of pro settings would be a great middle ground.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions?
We did the whole song and dance with an AR secondary for HCS in Halo 5. Didn’t work, never again.
I miss when back in the day Ranked and Social were the same gameplay just Ranked you took more seriously. These new Ranked settings should be named Competitive/MLG/HCS or whatever. Sometimes I wanna take a game seriously but still feel like I’m playing Halo.
Nah, BR starts is fine for Halo competitively. People always talk about how there’s no sense in picking up other weapons when one, that’s untrue and two, well, that’s really not the point anyway.