Do NOT bring back the Halo 2 Anniversary Elites

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > Elites in halo CE through reach sound competent, bold and confident. And Halo four and five, they sounded like bumbling buffoons
> > >
> > > The CE through Reach elites were the vanguard of a dominating religious empire, and later the leaders of the rebels.
> > >
> > > The halo 4 and 5 elites are literally those too dumb to let go of the great journey and the fact the prophets betrayed them.
> >
> > Lol, possibly true. To me, the elites are strong and sleek, assassin-like though they still tower over humans. The Halo CE-Reach elites were perfect :ok_hand:t2: n their art style. Favorite is probably CE and H2. H4 & H5 elites look so bulky, brutish, and don’t convey that elite mentality.
>
> Well… they took out the brutes and the flood so they needed SOME kind of brutish combat element. Their logic to make the elegant smart human like elites fill that roll was them being not wanting to think up something new.

The Knights are brutish in Halo 5, and I don’t see why they didn’t just bring back brutes to fill that role. They are beloved enemies at this point.

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> > > > > Elites in halo CE through reach sound competent, bold and confident. And Halo four and five, they sounded like bumbling buffoons
> > > >
> > > > The CE through Reach elites were the vanguard of a dominating religious empire, and later the leaders of the rebels.
> > > >
> > > > The halo 4 and 5 elites are literally those too dumb to let go of the great journey and the fact the prophets betrayed them.
> > >
> > > Lol, possibly true. To me, the elites are strong and sleek, assassin-like though they still tower over humans. The Halo CE-Reach elites were perfect :ok_hand:t2: n their art style. Favorite is probably CE and H2. H4 & H5 elites look so bulky, brutish, and don’t convey that elite mentality.
> >
> > Well… they took out the brutes and the flood so they needed SOME kind of brutish combat element. Their logic to make the elegant smart human like elites fill that roll was them being not wanting to think up something new.
>
> The Knights are brutish in Halo 5, and I don’t see why they didn’t just bring back brutes to fill that role. They are beloved enemies at this point.

I agree the knights fill the role of rushing at you and giving you that jump scare I still think the elites move and look way more brutish in those halo’s. And yes, they should have just brought back the brutes. Cough cough halo infinite.

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> > > > > > Elites in halo CE through reach sound competent, bold and confident. And Halo four and five, they sounded like bumbling buffoons
> > > > >
> > > > > The CE through Reach elites were the vanguard of a dominating religious empire, and later the leaders of the rebels.
> > > > >
> > > > > The halo 4 and 5 elites are literally those too dumb to let go of the great journey and the fact the prophets betrayed them.
> > > >
> > > > Lol, possibly true. To me, the elites are strong and sleek, assassin-like though they still tower over humans. The Halo CE-Reach elites were perfect :ok_hand:t2: n their art style. Favorite is probably CE and H2. H4 & H5 elites look so bulky, brutish, and don’t convey that elite mentality.
> > >
> > > Well… they took out the brutes and the flood so they needed SOME kind of brutish combat element. Their logic to make the elegant smart human like elites fill that roll was them being not wanting to think up something new.
> >
> > The Knights are brutish in Halo 5, and I don’t see why they didn’t just bring back brutes to fill that role. They are beloved enemies at this point.
>
> I agree the knights fill the role of rushing at you and giving you that jump scare I still think the elites move and look way more brutish in those halo’s. And yes, they should have just brought back the brutes. Cough cough halo infinite.

Craig will save the day! Whenever he decides that his game will release.

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Halo 2 was the only shooter game I grew up with, and I honestly always imagined them in reality too look exactly like they do in H2A. It could not be more perfect. In my honest opinion the H2A elites look just as “classic” as H3, and is my personal favorite design in the whole franchise. Looks like nothing but a realistic version of the original. unlike reach-4-5 where they are way too weird imo.

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It’s funny because the 343i elite is the closest to the originals anatomically although most don’t want to admit it:

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And it’s already meant to be a subspecies in the first place.
My ideal would be to see the H3 and H4 races coexisting after the covenant ended like in the expanded material, the H2A ones feel definitely divorced, almost like human snakes and try to recton the originals.

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> It’s funny because the 343i elite is the closest to the originals anatomically although most don’t want to admit it:
> https://i.redd.it/p66gxpdbkiaz.png

It most definitely is not, and your own picture proves that.
The mandibles of the Halo CE elites start below the eyes. This is consistent across all games until Halo 4, where they suddenly start behind the eyes.

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> > It’s funny because the 343i elite is the closest to the originals anatomically although most don’t want to admit it:
> > https://i.redd.it/p66gxpdbkiaz.png
>
> It most definitely is not, and your own picture proves that.
> The mandibles of the Halo CE elites start below the eyes. This is consistent across all games until Halo 4, where they suddenly start behind the eyes.

That’s only one single difference, and again don’t crop my comment. It’s a different breed which I don’t even want to replace the original. Imagine the jackals and the skirmishers for example. I’m fine if they are together, not if you grab one and pretend it always was the other one. I DID hate how the arbiter looked in microtransactions 5.

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> > It’s funny because the 343i elite is the closest to the originals anatomically although most don’t want to admit it:
> > https://i.redd.it/p66gxpdbkiaz.png
>
> It most definitely is not, and your own picture proves that.
> The mandibles of the Halo CE elites start below the eyes. This is consistent across all games until Halo 4, where they suddenly start behind the eyes.

The musculature for the mandible DOES start behind the eye in every version but the H2a elite though. Notice how the original trilogy heads all have wrinkles leading from the mandible joint around the back of the eye. Also all the eyes of the other heads line up nicely while the h2a elite has to position itself differently because its whole head and neck don’t work the same way.

A 343 elite is like a OT elite but its mouth can open more. An h2a elite has a weird spider mouth.

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> That’s only one single difference, and again don’t crop my comment.

Why not? I removed everything but the part I was commenting on.
You know you’re supposed to do that, right? I’ve seen mods complain about too long comments plenty of times.
Granted, this wouldn’t count as “too long”, but I’m just doing that with all my replies…
EDIT: Also, why “again”? This is literally the first time you’ve posted in this thread. The first time I’m ever talking to you. O.o

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> It’s a different breed which I don’t even want to replace the original. Imagine the jackals and the skirmishers for example. I’m fine if they are together, not if you grab one and pretend it always was the other one. I DID hate how the arbiter looked in microtransactions 5.

Of course the “different breed” thing is just a retroactive rationalization.
Very convenient, isn’t it, that suddenly Chief encounters new subspecies of every main Covenant race that all look distinctly different from before, that all fight in the same army and nobody has ever seen before?
But yeah, officially there is an explanation for their existence.
Still doesn’t change the fact that the Halo 4 elites look nothing like the original ones from CE.

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> The musculature for the mandible DOES start behind the eye in every version but the H2a elite though.

Yes, the musculature.
The 343 elites are the only ones where the mandible iself splits from the head behind their eyes, though.

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> > The musculature for the mandible DOES start behind the eye in every version but the H2a elite though.
>
> Yes, the musculature.
> The 343 elites are the only ones where the mandible iself splits from the head behind their eyes, though.

Thats a minor difference compared to the h2a elites though.

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> > > The musculature for the mandible DOES start behind the eye in every version but the H2a elite though.
> >
> > Yes, the musculature.
> > The 343 elites are the only ones where the mandible iself splits from the head behind their eyes, though.
>
> Thats a minor difference compared to the h2a elites though.

Maybe. But I was never talking about the H2A elites, this was about a comparison between CE and 4.

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> > That’s only one single difference, and again don’t crop my comment.
>
> Why not? I removed everything but the part I was commenting on.
> You know you’re supposed to do that, right? I’ve seen mods complain about too long comments plenty of times.
> Granted, this wouldn’t count as “too long”, but I’m just doing that with all my replies…
> EDIT: Also, why “again”? This is literally the first time you’ve posted in this thread. The first time I’m ever talking to you. O.o
>
>
>
>
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> > It’s a different breed which I don’t even want to replace the original. Imagine the jackals and the skirmishers for example. I’m fine if they are together, not if you grab one and pretend it always was the other one. I DID hate how the arbiter looked in microtransactions 5.
>
> Of course the “different breed” thing is just a retroactive rationalization.
> Very convenient, isn’t it, that suddenly Chief encounters new subspecies of every main Covenant race that all look distinctly different from before, that all fight in the same army and nobody has ever seen before?
> But yeah, officially there is an explanation for their existence.
> Still doesn’t change the fact that the Halo 4 elites look nothing like the original ones from CE.

I don’t have a problem if you just shorten what i’ve said, but you were dismissing entire points I made, that was the problem.
Now, you can make the same convinience explanation for pretty much everything new. “Conveniently there weren’t drones in halo 1” for example. And there isn’t excuse there.
After the end of the covenant did you seriously expect to be the remnant exactly identical? The idea was that the subspecies were no longer tied to specific roles and now participated in combat. Granted, keeping the original CE - H3 type alongside would make it more clear, but it didn’t contradict anything so I don’t see what is exactly your problem there. For the second time, outside of the H2 and 3 elites (which are meant to be the exact same to begin with) the 343 elites are the most faithful and at least their differences were justifyied afterwards and made sense in the story.

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> I don’t have a problem if you just shorten what i’ve said, but you were dismissing entire points I made, that was the problem.

If you mean the “subspecies” thing, it had nothing to do with the statement. They don’t look like CE elites, regardless of whether or not they are supposed to be the same thing or not.
You also still haven’t explained why you said “again”.

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> After the end of the covenant did you seriously expect to be the remnant exactly identical?

I expected 343 to make the models similar enough that you didn’t need a ham-fisted rationalization as to why grunts suddenly have the wrong number of toes, for example.
Then again, I expected 343 to do a lot of things that they ended up not doing…

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> Now, you can make the same convinience explanation for pretty much everything new. “Conveniently there weren’t drones in halo 1” for example. And there isn’t excuse there.

Sure, there are other things in the franchise that seem suspicious in hindsight. Drones are a perfect example, these enemies didn’t exist at the time of CE’s development yet, so them missing needs an explanation.
But this isn’t hindsight. People could tell that the covenant species look wrong before the game was even released. And it’s also not just one or two: It’s. Every. Single. Covenant. Species.
It’s one thing if later games retroactively cause issues with prior titles. It’s an entirely different thing if you conceive of something that doesn’t make sense in the first place.

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> For the second time, outside of the H2 and 3 elites (which are meant to be the exact same to begin with) the 343 elites are the most faithful and at least their differences were justifyied afterwards and made sense in the story.

So first it was “the 343i elite is the closest to the originals anatomically”, now it is the third-closest. We’re making progress.
Regardless, repeating the statement will not make it any less false. Reach elites are still closer in anatomical terms because while different in facial shape, at least their extremities attach at the same place. The 343 elites are the equivalent of a human whose ears are on their eyebrows.

The new covenant’s anatomy is completely different because 343 wanted to “modernize” the visuals and after fans called them out on it they pulled an explanation out of their donkey to shoehorn in after the fact.

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I personally want variety in them in 1 game. Humans arent all the same size. There are humans well over 6 foot and under 5 foot. Fat humans, scronny humans. So there should be big elites and small elites. Hell, spartans in reach had size variances.

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> > 2535470539089749;194:
> > I don’t have a problem if you just shorten what i’ve said, but you were dismissing entire points I made, that was the problem.
>
> If you mean the “subspecies” thing, it had nothing to do with the statement. They don’t look like CE elites, regardless of whether or not they are supposed to be the same thing or not.
> You also still haven’t explained why you said “again”.
>
>
>
>
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> > After the end of the covenant did you seriously expect to be the remnant exactly identical?
>
> I expected 343 to make the models similar enough that you didn’t need a ham-fisted rationalization as to why grunts suddenly have the wrong number of toes, for example.
> Then again, I expected 343 to do a lot of things that they ended up not doing…
>
>
>
>
> > 2535470539089749;194:
> > Now, you can make the same convinience explanation for pretty much everything new. “Conveniently there weren’t drones in halo 1” for example. And there isn’t excuse there.
>
> Sure, there are other things in the franchise that seem suspicious in hindsight. Drones are a perfect example, these enemies didn’t exist at the time of CE’s development yet, so them missing needs an explanation.
> But this isn’t hindsight. People could tell that the covenant species look wrong before the game was even released. And it’s also not just one or two: It’s. Every. Single. Covenant. Species.
> It’s one thing if later games retroactively cause issues with prior titles. It’s an entirely different thing if you conceive of something that doesn’t make sense in the first place.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535470539089749;194:
> > For the second time, outside of the H2 and 3 elites (which are meant to be the exact same to begin with) the 343 elites are the most faithful and at least their differences were justifyied afterwards and made sense in the story.
>
> So first it was “the 343i elite is the closest to the originals anatomically”, now it is the third-closest. We’re making progress.
> Regardless, repeating the statement will not make it any less false. Reach elites are still closer in anatomical terms because while different in facial shape, at least their extremities attach at the same place. The 343 elites are the equivalent of a human whose ears are on their eyebrows.
>
> The new covenant’s anatomy is completely different because 343 wanted to “modernize” the visuals and after fans called them out on it they pulled an explanation out of their donkey to shoehorn in after the fact.

Ok, you’re completely off the rails now. I would agree if we were talking about H5 where they said “screw everything, retcons all over”. But if they were so much like “oh no we screwed up, don’t worry this is an exception, we’re not seeing this again” after the initial reaction like you stated (which you are assuming without showing any proof), then why did they carry on in 5? Halo 4 is different and even though some changes like the dawn or the UNSC weapons on it don’t make any sense at all, and chief’s armor is forced as hell, how many times do I have to say that the remnant are not even meant to be the same? In one scene you see police officers with german shepherds, in another one you see other police officers with dutch shepherds. As simple as that. Just because you don’t have the narrator telling you “THOSE DOGS ARE DIFFERENT SUBSPECIES” from the beginning it doesn’t mean they never thought about it. I don’t understand what your problem is. Different elite traits were already a thing before H4. Say what you want about the godawful kilo 5 books but they mention it there. And since the remnant covenant are meant to be made up with whatever, like stacking up anything you can in a landfill to try putting up something, then the disparity would represent it perfectly. I already said my ideal would be seeing the original trilogy phenotype alongside the H4 one. It does bug me the old one didn’t show up at all, but I don’t know what is wrong with being consistent with the lore and showcasing different races in the covenant like reach already did with the skirmishers. This is where you got it factually wrong, the reach ones (even if you still think the subspecies thing was an excuse we at least got it in H4 but not with them, and based on the story alone they were meant to replace the originals and period) aren’t closer than the H4 ones to the originals and I can point it with nothing but color lines in paint. I don’t like having to guide by the hand like it was kindergarden but sometimes… well…

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Honestly, I agree that the Elite’s skulls should always at least be attempted to fall in line with what we see on the Legendary logo. But aside from that H2A was vastly superior to anything else 343i cooked up. And I really like the Mandibles hanging just a little bit lower. It allows the Elite to look more dangerous without sacrificing the implied elegance and intelligence that Halo 2 Classic’s design in particular gave them.

Plus Bungie didn’t design them the same throughout the original trilogy either. They went through massive changes between 2 and 3 in a way that made them appear more… brutish than before. Reach was an improvement over 3 hands down just because they gained their elegance back. And even between CE and 2 a lot of effort was put in to make their faces more well defined. In CE they were practically faceless aliens because of how little of their face you got to see, even zoomed in on a corpse. In Halo 2, their heads were made bigger just so you could effectively see their faces.

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> But if they were so much like “oh no we screwed up, don’t worry this is an exception, we’re not seeing this again” after the initial reaction like you stated (which you are assuming without showing any proof), then why did they carry on in 5?

I have never said anything of the sort. You are projecting things into my statements.
My point was that 343 changed things because they thought they were “cool” without thinking further than the baseline level.
This seems to be a general M.O. with them, as it extends not only to the aforementioned visuals but also gameplay, sounds/music, story and most recently customization.
But 343 doesn’t think they “screwed up”. And that is precisely the problem.

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> how many times do I have to say that the remnant are not even meant to be the same?

You don’t have to say it at all, because it is completely irrelevant for the discussion.

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> Say what you want about the godawful kilo 5 books but they mention it there.

“Godawful”?
I actually thought they were quite good.
At least they were better than that atrocity that was the Forerunner trilogy.

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> This is where you got it factually wrong, the reach ones (even if you still think the subspecies thing was an excuse we at least got it in H4 but not with them, and based on the story alone they were meant to replace the originals and period) aren’t closer than the H4 ones to the originals

Yes they are, because their anatomy is consistent.

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> I can point it with nothing but color lines in paint. I don’t like having to guide by the hand like it was kindergarden but sometimes… well…

I feel the same way.

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> > 2535470539089749;197:
> > But if they were so much like “oh no we screwed up, don’t worry this is an exception, we’re not seeing this again” after the initial reaction like you stated (which you are assuming without showing any proof), then why did they carry on in 5?
>
> I have never said anything of the sort. You are projecting things into my statements.
> My point was that 343 changed things because they thought they were “cool” without thinking further than the baseline level.
> This seems to be a general M.O. with them, as it extends not only to the aforementioned visuals but also gameplay, sounds/music, story and most recently customization.
> But 343 doesn’t think they “screwed up”. And that is precisely the problem.
>
>
>
>
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> > how many times do I have to say that the remnant are not even meant to be the same?
>
> You don’t have to say it at all, because it is completely irrelevant for the discussion.
>
>
>
>
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> > Say what you want about the godawful kilo 5 books but they mention it there.
>
> “Godawful”?
> I actually thought they were quite good.
> At least they were better than that atrocity that was the Forerunner trilogy.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535470539089749;197:
> > This is where you got it factually wrong, the reach ones (even if you still think the subspecies thing was an excuse we at least got it in H4 but not with them, and based on the story alone they were meant to replace the originals and period) aren’t closer than the H4 ones to the originals
>
> Yes they are, because their anatomy is consistent.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535470539089749;197:
> > I can point it with nothing but color lines in paint. I don’t like having to guide by the hand like it was kindergarden but sometimes… well…
>
> I feel the same way.

Are you trying to mock me or something?
So I am projecting statements, and “343 just wanted to change things because they thought it would be cool” (without sources) isn’t? Like bungie didn’t make any changes at all from game to game.
Not to mention you debunked that argument yourself: If you read kilo 5 which are supposedly soooo awsome, then you already gave me the reason and admitted different elite subspecies were a thing before H4 as those books first introduced it, all 343 did was represent that in game. For the billionth-or-so time: they aren’t meant to be the same elites as the originals (at least before halo 5).
The idea that the remnant covenant wasn’t meant to be the original is completely relevant, if there are absolutely no changes compared to the original what’s even the point? I’ll use dog breed as examples again: imagine some fancy mafia organization using tibetan mastiff as their prefered breed. After their leaders are captured or killed and they splinter and fight internally, they could desperately use other dogs like labrador or doberman as last resource instead of purely the finest mastiff. That’s all they have. Same with the rest of their equipment.
So, if we are at last considering the fact the 343 elites are a subspecies, the other 2 ones in the image (reach and 2 anniversary) are more inconsistent because those DO pretend to replace the originals and are even more different anatomically. So far you have only pointed one single difference (twice) that makes the SUBSPECIES from the kilo 5 books/343 stand out from CE,2 and 3’s model (and to put icing on the cake that was nothing but flesh, not skull shape or something).
I wouldn’t be surprised if you started to complain and point out the differences between a jackal and skirmisher even though they’re different and you already accepted it openly.
If you still try to brag about it for whatever reason, I have no option but to do what I said I could, and finally put everything you said to rest. Up to you.

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HERES an idea!

Bring in ALL the different Sangheili for different roles, ranks, whos on which sides, included i nSword of Sanghelios and so on. Phenotypes, subspecies, you know. Makes sense of it all, the differences. And Im not only talking about the Elites but the Jiralhanae brutes to.

Only blunder was having Thel Vadam appear as the Halo 4/ 5 sub species of sangheili in those games. Glad he got the “correct” look in the Halo 2 A cutscenes.
Also, 343. FIX the in - game upper right mandible of the Halo 2 Aniversary elites, theres some graphical " skin flap " between that upper mandible and upper teeth.

We have the:
Halo 2/ A elites. Mostly dark grey, black skin color, slender, yet muscular built. Orange, green eyecolor.
Halo 3 elites. These are more kinda brown to grey colored, eye colors same as above.
Halo 4/ 5 elites. More scaly, adapted to a different environment thant their cousins ( dryer, desert ?) mandibles higher up, more pronounced " bumps " along their necks and spine.
Halo Reach elite. Moslty grey to light grey in skin color, very agile, tall and more agressive, purple eyes.
Halo Wars elites. At least the ones from HW 1. Those looks bulky, more droopy mandibles, loves melee combat with no weapons ( judging from the HW intro cinematic )

The brutes have CLEARLY three different sub species at least. Halo 2/ A ones, Halo 3 and Halo Wars 2/ Infinite. You could count in those Reach ones to… fugly but I love their armors, tattos and the stripes of body hair.