> > > > > > Halo 2 had the best multiplayer. Its main weapon was a BR. Reach has the worst multiplayer. Its main weapon is a DMR.
> > > > >
> > > > > DMR had bloom, who says this gun does?
> > > >
> > > > Halo 2 MLG > Reach (no bloom) MLG
> > >
> > > not sure if relevant…
> >
> > MLG in Reach uses no bloom, yet it still fails to offer exciting gameplay, supporting my claim that a single-shot weapon is just plain bad, bloom or not.
> >
> > If we could disable magnetism and such, then yeah it’d be superior. But we can’t in a reasonable online environment, at least with the current tech.
>
> NBNS MLG is great. You’re such a jaded halo hipster. Your opinion means nothing because there’s no logic to it. You just say lol reach no matter what because you think it places you in with the good players.
NBNS MLG is great, but it’s not amazing. It’s Halo Reach in its best possible form, but not simply Halo in its best possible form. My opinion is backed up by facts - you cannot succeed with a burst weapon if your reticle is not on the opponent 100% of the time. This much isn’t true with a single-shot weapon. That’s fact. If you like dumbed-down gameplay where you can jerk your reticle around and suck at aiming yet still manage to hit people, suit yourself.
I do not “say lol reach no matter what because I think it places me with the good players.” That’s ironic - Reach itself is what places me with the good players. The only thing holding me back is my lack of teamwork and strategy because the game practically aims for me with single-shot. Plus, I get nastily ridiculed by good players all of the time, you included, for “saying lol reach.” That’s just contradictory; if I wanted to ‘fit in’ with the good players, I wouldn’t upset them with my different opinions.
And your claim that Halo 2’s post-patch BR was essentially single shot is ridiculous. How is it essentially single shot? Just because it’s consistent?
> > > > > > > Halo 2 had the best multiplayer. Its main weapon was a BR. Reach has the worst multiplayer. Its main weapon is a DMR.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DMR had bloom, who says this gun does?
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 2 MLG > Reach (no bloom) MLG
> > > >
> > > > not sure if relevant…
> > >
> > > MLG in Reach uses no bloom, yet it still fails to offer exciting gameplay, supporting my claim that a single-shot weapon is just plain bad, bloom or not.
> > >
> > > If we could disable magnetism and such, then yeah it’d be superior. But we can’t in a reasonable online environment, at least with the current tech.
> >
> > NBNS MLG is great. You’re such a jaded halo hipster. Your opinion means nothing because there’s no logic to it. You just say lol reach no matter what because you think it places you in with the good players.
>
> NBNS MLG is great, but it’s not amazing. It’s Halo Reach in its best possible form, but not simply Halo in its best possible form. My opinion is backed up by facts - you cannot succeed with a burst weapon if your reticle is not on the opponent 100% of the time. This much isn’t true with a single-shot weapon. That’s fact. If you like dumbed-down gameplay where you can jerk your reticle around and suck at aiming yet still manage to hit people, suit yourself.
>
> I do not “say lol reach no matter what because I think it places me with the good players.” That’s ironic - Reach itself is what places me with the good players. The only thing holding me back is my lack of teamwork and strategy because the game practically aims for me with single-shot. Plus, I get nastily ridiculed by good players all of the time, you included, for “saying lol reach.” That’s just contradictory; if I wanted to ‘fit in’ with the good players, I wouldn’t upset them with my different opinions.
>
> And your claim that Halo 2’s post-patch BR was essentially single shot is ridiculous. How is it essentially single shot? Just because it’s consistent?
With the ROF of the HCE pistol and no bloom DMR you need to stay on target just as much as you did with the slower ROF BR. Not to mention with a burst weapon you can sweep for headshots instead of having to hit it flush like you do with single shot.
It was essentially single shot because all 3 bullets were tracked as one and the spread was ridiculously tight. It was for all intents and purposes a single shot weapon with a burst skin on it post patch.
Are people arguing against single-shot being more consistent?
The conic spread and bloom fall into the same category, they make the game more random. These random elements need to be eliminated from gameplay as much as possible to ensure consistency.
The conic spread takes more “skill” in the same way timing your shots takes more “skill”. At some level you have control over what’s going to happen, but there is a random element which is too fine to control.
> > You’re making it seem like it was LIGHT YEARS faster than Halo 1 lol… Halo 2 was a slower paced game than Halo 1 in terms of gameplay AND killtimes. Maybeeeee the running speeds were a tad faster, but Halo 1 still felt faster.
>
> Hahaha did you ever play halo 1 or 2 for that matter? Doesn’t seem like you did, because halo 2s gameplay and killtimes WERE lightspeeds ahead of CE… Look.
>
> Halo2montage
>
> HaloCEmontage
>
> You can safely assume the killtime would be more extreme by the sheer fact that they integrated more multikill medals…
Lightspeeds? Seriously? You can kill with a Pistol faster than a BR in Halo 2 AND it takes way more skill to use. That’s the bottom line, maybe YOU didn’t play Halo 1 competitively then ;\ — Halo 2 was SOOOOO easy and catered more towards the casual crowd.
> The pace and kill times are irrelevant - my only point is that a faster movement speed and acceleration cancels out a lot of the magnetism.
>
> You also have to take into consideration that an online Halo game will never be as competitively suited as Halo CE, as Halo CE only functions properly in an offline environment.[/color]
Dude come on lmfao… The little bit faster run speed does NOT negate it because they increased the magnetism and auto aim at such an exponential increase between both games compared to the run speeds/acceleration in both games.
In simple terms:
Run speeds/acceleration -> Halo 2 was slightly faster than Halo 1
Bullet magnetism/auto aim -> Halo 2 was DRASTICALLY increased
I think I might die if I see another boring DMR in Halo.
I remember someone in a thread that was made I think around a month ago said they should make the BR in H4 how it was in the H2 demo, 3 shot burst when not scoped, 1 shot when scoped. This way it will be a bit more balanced. I personally would prefer a more H3ish BR but this will do to.
> You guys do realize the BR is gonna be in the game anyways right?
There’s absolutely no certainty it will be. Judging from the only trailer we have we’re gonna have renditions of weapons that look familiar but are radically different (or at least will work differently.) The only weapon we’ve seen looks like a pistol but fires a projectile similar to the grenade used in Reach’s Grenade Launcher. In essence what this thread is discussing is if the main utility weapons be single shot or burst in their firing mode and the strengths and weaknesses of each type.
As for me, I’ll roll with whatever is given and unfortunately don’t have any deeper insight to add to this discussion, carry on either way though.
> > You guys do realize the BR is gonna be in the game anyways right?
>
> There’s absolutely no certainty it will be. Judging from the only trailer we have we’re gonna have renditions of weapons that look familiar but are radically different (or at least will work differently.) The only weapon we’ve seen looks like a pistol but fires a projectile similar to the grenade used in Reach’s Grenade Launcher. In essence what this thread is discussing is if the main utility weapons be single shot or burst in their firing mode and the strengths and weaknesses of each type.
>
> As for me, I’ll roll with whatever is given and unfortunately don’t have any deeper insight to add to this discussion, carry on either way though.
You dont need deep insight to know the BR will be in Halo 4…it’s common sense
> With the ROF of the HCE pistol and no bloom DMR you need to stay on target just as much as you did with the slower ROF BR. Not to mention with a burst weapon you can sweep for headshots instead of having to hit it flush like you do with single shot.
>
> It was essentially single shot because all 3 bullets were tracked as one and the spread was ridiculously tight. It was for all intents and purposes a single shot weapon with a burst skin on it post patch.
In fact, with online play there came bullet magnetism. Halo CE didn’t have it, but every Halo afterwards had it, it makes aiming a lot easier and thereby takes away most of the skill needed to aim a single shot weapon. That’s why a single shot weapon isn’t the better choice in online enviroments.
Burst firing weapon on the other hand compensates for the increased bullet magnetism by requiring the player to keep their reticle on the opponent for some time. If there is no bullet magnetism associated it will be 100% consistent, your shots either hit or miss. Your claim of incosistent feeling might come from the bad netcode of the games that used BR. More precisely, the awful netcode of Halo 3 that had features such as spread and bullet travel time that should never have been in the game.
In reality a well working burst fire weapon is as consistent as a single shot weapon, it just has potential to require at least a bit more skill as in order to get a perfect four shot kill you need to keep your reticle at the opponent for a longer preiod of time instead of just swiping.
But to be honest, in response to your last paragraph, it doesn’t matter that much do we get a single shot or burst firing rifle. And I would be happy if we at least got what you said, wether it’s true or not, a single shot rifle with a BR skin because half of why I like the BR is the cadence and the sound of it.
> I think I might die if I see another boring DMR in Halo.
>
> I remember someone in a thread that was made I think around a month ago said they should make the BR in H4 how it was in the H2 demo, 3 shot burst when not scoped, 1 shot when scoped. This way it will be a bit more balanced. I personally would prefer a more H3ish BR but this will do to.
> I think I might die if I see another boring DMR in Halo.
>
> I remember someone in a thread that was made I think around a month ago said they should make the BR in H4 how it was in the H2 demo, 3 shot burst when not scoped, 1 shot when scoped. This way it will be a bit more balanced. I personally would prefer a more H3ish BR but this will do to.
The dmr with no bloom is amazing and I personally love playing with the no bloom… However,
The halo 2 br did something right that other utility weapons did not before and after it. It allowed for great consistency at close and medium range while at the same time not acting like a sniper across the entire map. I feel that having a utility weapon that can shoot at a long range but not at full effectiveness is actually a good thing. Look at how the pit plays in reach vs the pit in halo 3. Rushing is a much more viable option now in reach pit because once on their side you can literally shoot any person that is called out. In halo 3 you had to be in the right position… (did not like the halo 3 br because it was not hitscan)
Just a thought about burst vs single shot weapon… Sometimes being too effective is not a good thing.
> > With the ROF of the HCE pistol and no bloom DMR you need to stay on target just as much as you did with the slower ROF BR. Not to mention with a burst weapon you can sweep for headshots instead of having to hit it flush like you do with single shot.
> >
> > It was essentially single shot because all 3 bullets were tracked as one and the spread was ridiculously tight. It was for all intents and purposes a single shot weapon with a burst skin on it post patch.
>
> In fact, with online play there came bullet magnetism. Halo CE didn’t have it, but every Halo afterwards had it, it makes aiming a lot easier and thereby takes away most of the skill needed to aim a single shot weapon. That’s why a single shot weapon isn’t the better choice in online enviroments.
>
> Burst firing weapon on the other hand compensates for the increased bullet magnetism by requiring the player to keep their reticle on the opponent for some time. If there is no bullet magnetism associated it will be 100% consistent, your shots either hit or miss. Your claim of incosistent feeling might come from the bad netcode of the games that used BR. More precisely, the awful netcode of Halo 3 that had features such as spread and bullet travel time that should never have been in the game.
>
> In reality a well working burst fire weapon is as consistent as a single shot weapon, it just has potential to require at least a bit more skill as in order to get a perfect four shot kill you need to keep your reticle at the opponent for a longer preiod of time instead of just swiping.
>
> But to be honest, in response to your last paragraph, it doesn’t matter that much do we get a single shot or burst firing rifle. And I would be happy if we at least got what you said, wether it’s true or not, a single shot rifle with a BR skin because half of why I like the BR is the cadence and the sound of it.
You just completely ignored the ROF point. You have to keep your reticule on the player just as much with a faster ROF single shot weapon as you do with a slow ROF burst weapon.
There’s a reason the competitive community was clamouring for a single shot weapon all throughout H2 and H3.
