Let me start as I always do, Hi I’m Blaze I’m a game developer so I have a good amount of Knowledge on creating games and getting a good balenced playing field for mutiplayer.
The Un-Professional Halo Player That I Am…
Firstly on a strictly un-professional note I don’t see why people are complaing the DMR is going to be overpowered since they have not played the TU yet and I do remember a while back everyone complaing the BR was not in Halo: Reach before the game shipped… and we all know how overpowered that was. So in short for this segment you ranters make no sense to me…
The Professional Game Developer View…
Right so lets take a step back… The ideal game would be where there is a level playing field where two teams enter with the exact same number advantages to their use, weather this be terrain advanges, vehicalular advantages, or in this case weapon advantages.
So with that in mind as long as both teams spawn with the same weapon then we can agree no team has the advantage. Now it dosen’t matter weather this is a DMR or AR or hell even a Sniper. But as long as both teams spawn with the same weapons there is no advantage to either team except their skill.
Now lets say we are playing standard 1 vs 1 with AR’s okay if two players square up in a one on one both with AR’s then the better player will win even if the player 2 armor locks to survive a grenade and therfore wins he is the better player in this scenario for making the correct decisions. (Now yes I know armor lock is considered a noob tactic and I agree but weather that “Ruins” the gameplay is another debate)
Now lets say the same two players square up however player 1 has the new “apparently overpowered” DMR then player 1 wins because the DMR is more powerful he is still the rightful victor and the most skillful player because the went and picked up the DMR. Its the exact same as a player going and finding a shotgun for example. If you are now getting what I am aiming at you’ll understand that I am saying a overpowered weapon would actually make the game more skillful.
… and to sign off as long as all partys present in the game spawn with the same assets to their disposal weapons being overpowered make little difference on gameplay and actually adds a new level of skill to the game.
Thanks for Reading Now as usual there will be people who do not understand what I have just said so I am sorry I could not have worded it better and I would ask you not to flame and rant about this topic. Malibu’s Most Wanted "Don’t Be Hating"
No bloom makes faster kill times.
and this new title update is supposed to make players to have a classic feeling
343 ftw<3
looking forward to play anniversary playlist
So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
Well, this isn’t b.net so I doubt you’d get flamed as quickly.
Anyway, I’ve said this in a different thread. I won’t hate until I’ve tried it for myself, but I still have concerns. Such as, that the DMR is now easier to use than the BR. I don’t think this will raise the skill gap, instead it’ll shrink it even further. Which was something most people were complaining about.
Not saying I’m hating against the decision to remove DMR, I personally didn’t care for it. But, hey, if it helps me kill faster and more accurately, whatever.
Another concern people have: One gun game. There are many other guns to choose from, but the DMR will always be dominant. Just like the BR. Might as well remove the other guns from the maps.
> I agree with what the OP is saying.
>
> But I think the same way about a non-TU Reach.
>
> So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
>
> You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
>
> Seems like a waste of resources.
Please, Mr Guywiired, take the open minded person you got inside you and tell me, which one of these 2 players would have won the encounter if the DMR without bloom would be there, watch the encounter at least 3 times and only think of the bullet going straight.
“Overpowered” is the wrong word. Overpowered DMR would be a DMR that even bad player could use and easily destroy with it, think about it being a two shot kill. It’s okay as long as it takes skill to pull off the kill. When it comes to the situation where the other player is at terrible disadvantage (think about Rockets vs. AR) the DMR becomes overpowered because one clip could literally grant you seven kills with the two shot kill, besides it would have way too much spare ammo, that’s just plain overpowered even for a power weapon. It would also take very low amount of skill to pull of that two shot kill. That’s jsut detrimental to gameplay.
Bloomless DMR is okay as long as anyone can’t just dominate with it. For example, in the current state of movement speed and acceleration in Reach, it’s way too easy to pull off a five shot kill because the opponent can barely make useless strafing. Bloom currently compensates thins by making the RoF slower to allow the surprised opponent to get into the fight and (possibly) win. With bloom turned off, there is no stopping for the RoF, leading to situations where it’s not about aiming and strafing, but more about who got the first shot. This could of course easily be compensated by making movement speed faster and speeding up the acceleration to allow better strafing.
Anyway, that’s what there is to it. My definition of overpowered is something that is very easy to use and get a bunch of kills. If DMR was a three shot kill, it would be required that strafing would be super effective to compensate the fast kills. The clip size would also be a bit too big. Rocket launcher isn’t overpowered because it has a small amount of ammo. Sniper isn’t overpowered because it’s hard to aim. DMR hasn’t been overpowered this far because it fires slowly. Will it become is yet to be seen.
In a dream situation, a player with a good strafe, aim and AR could be able to beat a player with a bad strafe, decent aim and DMR, but if both players had bad strafe, the DMR user would dominate. Balance is not as straightforward as both players having equal opportunities, that’s just the most simple vision of it.
Having a near-power weapon off of spawn leads to people not picking up any firearm that’s not a power weapon. Thus, it shrinks the weapon sandbox and diminishes weapon variety. Why pick up that Needler when you know they can 5-shot you? Why pick up that Plasma Repeater when your current gun is better at close range? Why pick up that Plasma Pistol when you’d be team-shotted before you can pull off a noob combo? I like the fact that the DMR is a little bit inaccurate because is creates more motivation for other weaponry, and creates a LOT more motivation to get the other precision weapons. Granted, DMR bloom is weird, and if 343 makes a title update to truly fix Reach, then thaat should be the first thing addressed.
> > I agree with what the OP is saying.
> >
> > But I think the same way about a non-TU Reach.
> >
> > So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
> >
> > You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
> >
> > Seems like a waste of resources.
>
> Please, Mr Guywiired, take the open minded person you got inside you and tell me, which one of these 2 players would have won the encounter if the DMR without bloom would be there, watch the encounter at least 3 times and only think of the bullet going straight.
>
> 1 vs 1 DMR on MLG
>
> Thinks __To not prove the bolded part wrong, he’ll say that the lesser player lost __thinks
The winner of your youtube shootout there was the guy who shot first.
Without bloom, the guy who shoots first will always win.
So like I said, you aren’t increasing the skill gap at all by patching bloom, you’re just moving complainers on to something else.
And more exactly, and to the OP’s point… if you put two people in the same room with the same weapon, the better player will always win. It doesn’t matter if that new weapon is the old DMR, or the new DMR, if both players have the same weapon, then both players have an equal bloom, equal rate of fire, equal chance of winning.
> > I agree with what the OP is saying.
> >
> > But I think the same way about a non-TU Reach.
> >
> > So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
> >
> > You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
> >
> > Seems like a waste of resources.
>
> If there is a random factor involved, there is no guarantee that the better player will win all of the time, no matter how equal their starting positions are. I have explained this to you a thousand times over, so I’m not going to do it all over again, because I know that you will ignore the posts bearing proof that tears your arguments to shreds, as you have consistently done.
You want proof and pretend that you have facts? Look at the math.
You can’t argue it. Bloom gives an equal chance to win to both players. The “randomness” is equally applied to each person resulting in consistency, resulting in the player with more skill winning every time.
> Having a near-power weapon off of spawn leads to people not picking up any firearm that’s not a power weapon. Thus, it shrinks the weapon sandbox and diminishes weapon variety. Why pick up that Needler when you know they can 5-shot you? Why pick up that Plasma Repeater when your current gun is better at close range? Why pick up that Plasma Pistol when you’d be team-shotted before you can pull off a noob combo? I like the fact that the DMR is a little bit inaccurate because is creates more motivation for other weaponry, and creates a LOT more motivation to get the other precision weapons. Granted, DMR bloom is weird, and if 343 makes a title update to truly fix Reach, then thaat should be the first thing addressed.
Here’s the thing though. Melee bleedthrough actually makes every other non power weapon useful again. AR/PR will beat the DMR at beatdown range with ease. Plasma Pistol even more so because it would be a 2 shot beatdown kill. What more do you want?
Since CE, Halo has gotten away from strong starting weapons, which is the main reason Halo’s popularity has been declining. There’s a reason people complain about AAs, grenades, power weapons, and melee. It’s because the DMR and other non-power weapons are underpowered in comparison. In H4 and future Halos, the starting weapons need to have the strength of CE/H2’s. I’m glad to see 343 is starting out on the right foot with Anniversary.
> Here’s the thing though. Melee bleedthrough actually makes every other non power weapon useful again. AR/PR will beat the DMR at beatdown range with ease. Plasma Pistol even more so because it would be a 2 shot beatdown kill. What more do you want?
I wouldn’t call that better.
It undermines the weapons and regulates them as tools, not guns, to the real killer at CQC: Your fist.
I want to be able to kill people with bullets.
It’s why I didn’t like H3: The AR Deathcharge. If every CQC encounter is going to be rush at your opponent, spraying wildly, since you only need half a dozen shots to land, then punch then Reach will die in my interest as well.
> > Here’s the thing though. Melee bleedthrough actually makes every other non power weapon useful again. AR/PR will beat the DMR at beatdown range with ease. Plasma Pistol even more so because it would be a 2 shot beatdown kill. What more do you want?
>
> I wouldn’t call that better.
>
> It undermines the weapons and regulates them as tools, not guns, to the real killer at CQC: Your fist.
>
> I want to be able to kill people with bullets.
>
> It’s why I didn’t like H3: The AR Deathcharge. If every CQC encounter is going to be rush at your opponent, spraying wildly, since you only need half a dozen shots to land, then punch then Reach will die in my interest as well.
Additionally, bleed through leads to questions that can only be answered in theater, where as the current Reach system is intuitive, and easier to understand during combat.
> > > I agree with what the OP is saying.
> > >
> > > But I think the same way about a non-TU Reach.
> > >
> > > So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
> > >
> > > You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
> > >
> > > Seems like a waste of resources.
> >
> > If there is a random factor involved, there is no guarantee that the better player will win all of the time, no matter how equal their starting positions are. I have explained this to you a thousand times over, so I’m not going to do it all over again, because I know that you will ignore the posts bearing proof that tears your arguments to shreds, as you have consistently done.
>
> You want proof and pretend that you have facts? Look at the math.
>
> You can’t argue it. Bloom gives an equal chance to win to both players. The “randomness” is equally applied to each person resulting in consistency, resulting in the player with more skill winning every time.
Think of a blue player and a red player, both are pointing their DMR with NO BLOOM at each other, there are only 2 team spawn poits which spawn the playerS at the same place were they die. They won’t be using the scope and they are at the max range were the reticle is red (medium range), BOTH OF THEM DON’T MOVE AT ALL, then both players shoot each other EXCACTLY at the same time (pretty much max fire rate for about a minute).
I’ll tell you what happens here but you must tell me what happen next, so in this case both players will die simulraniously 100% of the time, there’s nothing that would stop that from happening.
No you will tell me what happens if the same thing is done, but with the BLOOMING DMR.
Please Guywiired, elight me. If you succed, i’ll just shut up and believe your THEORY. Bolded part: edit
> > > > I agree with what the OP is saying.
> > > >
> > > > But I think the same way about a non-TU Reach.
> > > >
> > > > So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
> > > >
> > > > You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
> > > >
> > > > Seems like a waste of resources.
> > >
> > > If there is a random factor involved, there is no guarantee that the better player will win all of the time, no matter how equal their starting positions are. I have explained this to you a thousand times over, so I’m not going to do it all over again, because I know that you will ignore the posts bearing proof that tears your arguments to shreds, as you have consistently done.
> >
> > You want proof and pretend that you have facts? Look at the math.
> >
> > You can’t argue it. Bloom gives an equal chance to win to both players. The “randomness” is equally applied to each person resulting in consistency, resulting in the player with more skill winning every time.
>
> Think of a blue player and a red player, both are pointing their DMR with NO BLOOM at each other, there are only 2 team spawn poits which spawn the player at the same place were they die. They won’t be using the scope and they are at the max range were the reticle is red (medium range), then both players shoot each other EXCACTLY at the same time (pretty much max fire rate for about a minute).
>
> I’ll tell you what happens here but you must tell me what happen next, so in this case both players will die simulraniously 100% of the time, there’s nothing that would stop that from happening.
>
> No you will tell me what happens if the same thing is done, but with the BLOOMING DMR.
>
> Please Guywiired, elight me. If you succed, i’ll just shut up and believe your THEORY.
well the skilled player will pace and the bad player won’t, and if both of them pace, the more skilled player will know when to fire and will fire just as the bloom resets, and if they both are equally skilled, then they both die at the same time, like the earlier example
> > > > > I agree with what the OP is saying.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I think the same way about a non-TU Reach.
> > > > >
> > > > > So my point remains, if everything is equal going into the fight, and my DMR blooms just as much as someone else, why bother making a TU to change bloom? The odds will still be even.
> > > > >
> > > > > You haven’t increased or decreased the skill gap at all, you’ve just moved people who couldn’t grasp bloom onto complaining about something else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems like a waste of resources.
> > > >
> > > > If there is a random factor involved, there is no guarantee that the better player will win all of the time, no matter how equal their starting positions are. I have explained this to you a thousand times over, so I’m not going to do it all over again, because I know that you will ignore the posts bearing proof that tears your arguments to shreds, as you have consistently done.
> > >
> > > You want proof and pretend that you have facts? Look at the math.
> > >
> > > You can’t argue it. Bloom gives an equal chance to win to both players. The “randomness” is equally applied to each person resulting in consistency, resulting in the player with more skill winning every time.
> >
> > Think of a blue player and a red player, both are pointing their DMR with NO BLOOM at each other, there are only 2 team spawn poits which spawn the player at the same place were they die. They won’t be using the scope and they are at the max range were the reticle is red (medium range), then both players shoot each other EXCACTLY at the same time (pretty much max fire rate for about a minute).
> >
> > I’ll tell you what happens here but you must tell me what happen next, so in this case both players will die simulraniously 100% of the time, there’s nothing that would stop that from happening.
> >
> > No you will tell me what happens if the same thing is done, but with the BLOOMING DMR.
> >
> > Please Guywiired, elight me. If you succed, i’ll just shut up and believe your THEORY.
>
> well the skilled player will pace and the bad player won’t, and if both of them pace, the more skilled player will know when to fire and will fire just as the bloom resets, and if they both are equally skilled, then they both die at the same time, like the earlier example
Ok, I kinda failed to express my point in that example.
Now read my example carefully, but think that both players aren’t moving AT ALL.
Then tell me if which game ends first if the max score is 10.
