It isn’t. What 343i needs to do is eliminate bullet magnetism, reduce sticky aim slightly, and then buff the other precision rifles in their traits outside of aim assist. Real Halo isn’t about slow kill times, it’s about fast kill times. If we can have a sandbox balance that’s as good as Halo 1’s, with fast kill times and large skill gap, that’s the way to go. We don’t need to emulate that sandbox exactly, but we need that sandbox’s ideals.
I still prefer just making the DMR an ordnance weapon so the game doesn’t need a full overhaul that would throw off many new players.
> It isn’t. What 343i needs to do is eliminate bullet magnetism,
Hah, you have fun with that. Even CE had (minor) magnetism.
> reduce sticky aim slightly, and then buff the other precision rifles in their traits outside of aim assist. Real Halo isn’t about slow kill times, it’s about fast kill times. If we can have a sandbox balance that’s as good as Halo 1’s, with fast kill times and large skill gap, that’s the way to go. We don’t need to emulate that sandbox exactly, but we need that sandbox’s ideals.
This I can agree with. Aside from ungodly magnetism and range, the DMR isn’t OP by previous Halo standards. What makes it OP is how easy it is to use compared to the other weapons in its niche.
BR: Buffed to 4 shot.
Carbine: Buffed to 6-7 shot.
Lightrifle: unscoped 4 shot (if all shots connect) and scoped 3 shot (maybe).
DMR: Leave it as it is.
THANK YOU OP. And thank you too, VVhale.
I find that very few people share my views on the DMR, so finding someone who agrees with me is a relief.
The DMR isn’t overpowered, but a lot of junk in this game can give the illusion that it is. Yet many people still think otherwise.
> > It isn’t. What 343i needs to do is eliminate bullet magnetism,
>
> Hah, you have fun with that. Even CE had (minor) magnetism.
>
>
>
> > reduce sticky aim slightly, and then buff the other precision rifles in their traits outside of aim assist. Real Halo isn’t about slow kill times, it’s about fast kill times. If we can have a sandbox balance that’s as good as Halo 1’s, with fast kill times and large skill gap, that’s the way to go. We don’t need to emulate that sandbox exactly, but we need that sandbox’s ideals.
>
> This I can agree with. Aside from ungodly magnetism and range, the DMR isn’t OP by previous Halo standards. What makes it OP is how easy it is to use compared to the other weapons in its niche.
>
> BR: Buffed to 4 shot.
>
> Carbine: Buffed to 6-7 shot.
>
> Lightrifle: unscoped 4 shot (if all shots connect) and scoped 3 shot (maybe).
>
> DMR: Leave it as it is.
This wouldn’t do anything other than make the DMR useless and the Carbine absurdly powerful.
Decrease bullet magnetism and aim assist - that’s all that needs to be done that 343i is willing to do. Another huge fix (that sadly won’t happen) is reintroduction of descoping.
The fact is, however, that the fact that the precision weapons are not identical makes them inherently unbalanced. The only way to truly create perfect balance is to take one of them and simply reskin it.
The idea of balance that the community has is absurd, anyway. The precision rifles do not need to be weak at close range. As with previous Halo titles, they need to be harder to use effectively at such ranges compared to automatic weapons.
Halo 4’s aim assistance, bullet magnetism, and lack of descope absolutely negate the DMR’s biggest disadvantage to the other automatic weapons: it simply doesn’t put out as many projectiles in a given time.
The Carbine has an extremely high fire rate. Missing a shot can be compensated for by quickly firing again. The BR and Light Rifle fire in bursts, meaning that even if your aim isn’t perfect, the extra bullets may ensure you do some damage.
The higher projectile output of these weapons would, in past games, make them very effective at suppressing weapons like the DMR due to descope. Because of the lack of descope, using a Carbine to cross-map someone equipped with a DMR is suicidal.
DON’T REMOVE THE DMR! DON’T NERF THE DMR’S KILLTIME!
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Reduce the DMR’s Red Reticule Range to be the same as the Light Rifle, that’s the only nerf that’s needed.
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Either keep the BR a 5sk and increase its fire rate or make the BR a 4sk and adjust it’s fire rate accordingly.
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Buff the Carbine so its a 7sk instead of 8.
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Increase the fire rate of the Light Rifle’s hip fire.
The problem with the DMR is that it is accurate, powerful and Fast, instead of accurate, powerful and slow.
It either needs a slight speed reduction, or all weapons before it needs a speed boost to compete with the gun and not be ignored.
This is just the start of it. 
> > > It isn’t. What 343i needs to do is eliminate bullet magnetism,
> >
> > Hah, you have fun with that. Even CE had (minor) magnetism.
> >
> >
> >
> > > reduce sticky aim slightly, and then buff the other precision rifles in their traits outside of aim assist. Real Halo isn’t about slow kill times, it’s about fast kill times. If we can have a sandbox balance that’s as good as Halo 1’s, with fast kill times and large skill gap, that’s the way to go. We don’t need to emulate that sandbox exactly, but we need that sandbox’s ideals.
> >
> > This I can agree with. Aside from ungodly magnetism and range, the DMR isn’t OP by previous Halo standards. What makes it OP is how easy it is to use compared to the other weapons in its niche.
> >
> > BR: Buffed to 4 shot.
> >
> > Carbine: Buffed to 6-7 shot.
> >
> > Lightrifle: unscoped 4 shot (if all shots connect) and scoped 3 shot (maybe).
> >
> > DMR: Leave it as it is.
>
> This wouldn’t do anything other than make the DMR useless and the Carbine absurdly powerful.
The weapon with the most range and still an incredibly fast kill time would be useless? All the other weapons would kill around the same speed, but would have less range. You are correct that the carbine would kill the fastest, but it’s still has less range, bloom and misses more shots than the other weapons.
> Decrease bullet magnetism and aim assist - that’s all that needs to be done that 343i is willing to do. Another huge fix (that sadly won’t happen) is reintroduction of descoping.
That still leaves the DMR in power. I do miss descoping though.
> The fact is, however, that the fact that the precision weapons are not identical makes them inherently unbalanced. The only way to truly create perfect balance is to take one of them and simply reskin it.
Not true at all.
Easiest to use | Slowest Kill time.
Marginally harder to use | Slightly Faster kill time.
Difficult to use | Fast kill time.
Very Difficult to use (most skill gap) | Very good kill time.
This could be moddeled (using Halo weapons) as:
Easy: DMR
Normal: *Carbine
Heroic: *BR
Legendary: CE magnum / Light Rifle
*Note, BR and carbine are interchangeable in this position. One could argue they are both hard to use, this is just an example.
> The idea of balance that the community has is absurd, anyway. The precision rifles do not need to be weak at close range. As with previous Halo titles, they need to be harder to use effectively at such ranges compared to automatic weapons.
This is true.
> Halo 4’s aim assistance, bullet magnetism, and lack of descope absolutely negate the DMR’s biggest disadvantage to the other automatic weapons: it simply doesn’t put out as many projectiles in a given time.
I would call that an advantage. You don’t need to connect as many bullets to do a lot of damage. Against the autos that’s not a big deal. The DMR should lose to autos. Compared to the precision weapons however, it’s a HUGE advantage.
> The Carbine has an extremely high fire rate. Missing a shot can be compensated for by quickly firing again. The BR and Light Rifle fire in bursts, meaning that even if your aim isn’t perfect, the extra bullets may ensure you do some damage.
Carbine also has bloom (non-visual, but does more than the DMR) and drops a ton of shots. You also have to have the most consistent aim with this weapon, as your reticule must always be on them.
You may have the chance of doing damage with the BR and Lightrifle, but at the same time if you miss more than 2 bullets with the BR and any with the lightrifle, that means another burst which slows down kill time.
You have a much higher chance of having to take another shot with the BR and lightrifle than you do with the DMR.
The DMR only has to hit one bullet, meaning if he can connect that bullet he is guaranteed to take away 1/4 of his opponents shields. He need not maintain his accuracy as compared to the other weapons.
> The higher projectile output of these weapons would, in past games, make them very effective at suppressing weapons like the DMR due to descope. Because of the lack of descope, using a Carbine to cross-map someone equipped with a DMR is suicidal.
This is true.
You should fix the title to “DMR Nerf is the way to go”. Just Saying.
People just can’t counter it. I used to be a DMR hater when I realized how many ways there are to counter it. Although many weapons and all the vehicles can use a small buff the DMR is fine.
I just played Halo 4 (until servers got down) and I’m really happy with it’s gameplay. Until someone overuses DMR I have no problem with current killtimes and BR being 5sk.
Sure, we can remove bullet magnetism and instead of this make faster killtimes, but after that how will Halo be different from dozens of military shooters?
Let’s just nerf this damn thing and let’s enjoy best balanced Halo game.
> It isn’t. What 343i needs to do is eliminate bullet magnetism, reduce sticky aim slightly, and then buff the other precision rifles in their traits outside of aim assist. <mark>Real Halo isn’t about slow kill times, it’s about fast kill times.</mark> If we can have a sandbox balance that’s as good as Halo 1’s, with fast kill times and large skill gap, that’s the way to go. We don’t need to emulate that sandbox exactly, but we need that sandbox’s ideals.
Pretty much every shooter game out there right now is about fast kill times. What impressed me about Halo is that it actually takes a little longer to kill somebody, even if you’re somebody with good aim. I mean, CoD has freakin’ one-hit-kills melees, not to mention machine guns that kill people in a split second, rewarding you points for practically just looking at the other person first.
No, Halo is more about your skill and abilities in the middle of a fight, NOT just rewarding somebody for simply starting to shoot at the other person first. That kind of thinking would reward camping 10 times more than even a cloak and DMR does right now.
Also, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the people who still want the CE pistol to come back are stupid. We left it behind for a reason, and Halo multiplayer is so much better off without it.
Halo multiplayer is better off without it? What?
We now have a random mess. Halo CE had a great utility weapon that, in the hands of a skilled player, could kill in three shots.
Rockets, Shotgun, and Sniper served the same purpose as in later games.
Plasma Pistol and Plasma Rifle were shield-breakers. Plasma Rifle also drastically reduced movement speed when shot with it.
The only weapons with no real purpose were the Needler and Assault Rifle. They were weapons intended for less-skilled players.
And for the idea of “balance” suggested earlier: that isn’t balance. Two weapons can only be truly considered balanced if they function identically. One weapon may have an advantage over the other in some situations, but various inequalities will always result in one being superior.
The point I was making with all non-DMR weapons firing faster is that if you fumble two shots on a DMR while fighting a BR user who misses 1/3 of two bursts (2 bullets), he’s probably going to kill you. It doesn’t happen this way now because of both weapons having extremely high bullet magnetism and aim assist.
Nerf aim assist, and magnetism slightly. Increase player speed by 20%. Remove BR spread. Nerf tthe clip size of all precision rifles to 1.5 kills per clip. Buff firer ate of automatics, increase shield draining capabilities and decrease killtimes on unshielded Spartans. Decrease DMR damage against vehicles. Make DMR dish out the least amount of flinch. Buff Carbine ROF and accuracy. Make it happen 343.
> Real Halo isn’t about slow kill times, it’s about fast kill times.
No I disagree. Fast killtimes means the game is just “I-Spy”, whoever sees who first is the winner. Eliminates strategy as well since every “tactic” will quickly fail to someone shooting first. When it’s not as fast, you have time to react to battles, make plans, use different weapons, support your teammates, and actually use your shields and not treat it like the “health” system in CoD.
Now, before you get angry and report my comment for “trolling”, that’s not to say that we can’t have gametypes with fast killtimes. I have nothing against SWAT (except for the lack of variety) and I’ll even create a gametype with 150% weapon damage for you in Reach. The beauty of Halo is the vast amount of options you can tweak to please everybody and offer large amounts of variety for everybody to not get tired of. You just gotta not be selfish and allow people to play and enjoy them.
this is wrong and here is the link you need to read before you post more. it even mention Halo when they talk about symmetrical balance. the kind you are Posting about.
now HALO 4 is trying to go with asymmetrical balance. the DMR is the only one that doesnt fit into this. the DMR is as easy to use at close(1 to 15 meters) as it is far(45 to infinity).
you might prefer one version of balance over anther, i know i do, but it is hard for you to argue that they are going for symmetrical balance in halo 4.
> And for the idea of “balance” suggested earlier: <mark>that isn’t balance.</mark> Two weapons can only be truly considered balanced if they function identically. One weapon may have an advantage over the other in some situations, but various inequalities will always result in one being superio
> DMR nerf is not the way to go. It isn’t. What 343i needs to do is eliminate bullet magnetism, reduce sticky aim slightly,
Wait…
Did you just say ‘Don’t nerf the DMR. Instead, nerf the DMR?’
> and then buff the other precision rifles in their traits outside of aim assist.
Buffing the other weapons has a greater chance of breaking the rest of the sandbox.
“Sandbox as balanced as Halo 1’s”
Halo 1’s sandbox boiled down to the Magnum, Sniper, Rockets, and Sniper. The other 4 weapons in the game were completely useless.
Halo 3, 4 and Reach are far more balanced games in terms of weapons.
Halo 2 is about the same as Halo 1 with the BR and power weapon domination.
> Did you just say ‘Don’t nerf the DMR. Instead, nerf the DMR?’
He was referring to nerfing the magnetism and aim assist on rifles in general.
> Rifles have to be the exact same to be balanced.
Not really, though it doesn’t hurt.
As for killtimes, Halo has always been medium paced. But I wouldn’t consider 1.4 seconds to be a particularly fast killtime.
It’s RoF needs to lowered. Plain and simple.