DMR needs a patch, makes the BR inferior

Games Other Halo
1

As far as I see it, the DMR is OP, its almost like a forced weapon just because its not even by choice, more like its required.

For anyone saying the DMR is fine, you have got to be freaking kidding me, I mean absolutely kidding me.

Did you all forget why we had bloom with the DMR in reach? To keep it from BR spamming like in 3. Cause this community complains about everything, they want their weapon to be perfect with no penalty for sustained fire. Its a gun, all guns recoil and shift after firing, every shooter since the shift to 3d has done that.

The problem with the DMR is not its clip size, power, range, or accuracy, its its rate of fire and/or bloom.

Now you say its fine but look at this:

BR and DMR are equal in power -Good
12-14 shots or rather 36 separate bullets and 14 total shots- Pretty much evens it out when you look at it that way, BR more single bullets but less shots per clip this works too.

What keeps them in check to punish sustained fire?

BR- recoil with every shot, does not loose accuracy only shifts your view.
DMR- Bloom, however this is what gets bad, THE BLOOM DOES NOTHING.

We know the BR was made for mid-close range but it could still get a kill at longer range if you were careful, it would just be very hard. The DMR was made for mid-long range but not as long as the sniper. Yet because the DMR has a higher rate of fire with no loss of accuracy, do you guys not see the simple problem?

BR and DMR share so many similarities, but when one weapon has more ammo, a higher rate of fire, nothing to punish sustained fire, range, and every shot does the full damage, what sense would it make to take the br, the weapon that’s practically outclassed by the DMR in nearly every way? Only advantage the BR has is when it comes to an exposed headshot and a slightly faster reload but those don’t help in practically anyway.

Its because the bloom does NOTHING and the rate of fire is higher, the DMR can get kills from the hip easier WITHOUT PENALTY.

The BR is made for close to mid range, but if it can only have a decent chance at long range, what sense does it make for the DMR to have such an easy time even at close range? You know how its hard to get someone up close with a sniper? The sniper is not made for close range but has a very small chance of success by a no-scope or bodyshot-beatdown combo. You would never always use the sniper up close but know it at least has a very small chance of winning in close combat. So what sense does it make to keep the DMR as it is, no penalty and impeding on the BR which still suffers? I’ve beaten DMR users with the BR but its still just annoying to know I get accuracy penalties and they don’t? What freaking logic is that?

The DMR needs either bloom to punish, trigger happy people or its ROF cut a bit. If you made a weapon for mid to long range, then it should be made for such, that. The DMR would be the bridge between BR and sniper, its supposed to be better at range than the BR but better up close than the Sniper. If you use the DMR it should be so that you have the advantage if you keep the enemy away, it should be a disadvantage if they managed to get up close. If the sniper had hardly any chance up close, you should have a decent one.

I know others will reply but please let me hear this “logic” please tell me why the DMR is good as is with its current near superior in every way to the BR and why its actually good for the DMR to never loose accuracy while the BR does.

What about the carbine and light rifle? I have no problem with those, carbine is the weakest but has the highest ROF and clip size, if anything that’s the only gun which should not suffer penlites to accuracy, you need to get in close and the guy getting shot has enough time to realize whats going on. The light rifle as well, its situational. Close up its like the BR but cannot carry the 3-round burst to scope mode. When scoped, yes it is powerful but the ROF is slow. You almost take a sentry position with it scoped in.

So please halo 4 players, tell me the logic of the DMR being balanced as is, because if one weapon manages to outclass another in almost every way, how is that fair? In a close up fight you would expect the weapon made for close range (BR) to win but instead its the weapon made for mid-long range (DMR). If this is the logic shooters are going to start following with weapons dominating in ranges they should not, I’m already awaiting that shotgun sniper, Im ready to cross map snipe people with my spread shots.

I’m looking forward to this ‘logic’

2

I agree with you 100%.

Bloom is pointless on this weapon, because it only affects it when enemies are out of your range by enough to not make your reticule go red, and it’s certainly no trade-off for the ridiculous amount of range it possesses.

Not only that, but it shreds vehicles like the Sniper. Just one clip to take down a Ghost.

3

My idea for how to fix the DMR vs BR at mid range is this. Assuming both players started shooting at the same time and neither player misses. It only takes 1 of the BR rounds to kill a player without shields. Have the speed of the bullets tuned so that the first BR round lands before the DMR round does. This would give the BR a split second advantage over the DMR at mid range and short range. At long range the DMR should win so I have no problems there.

4

Agreed, also that doesn’t address the other problem with the DMR. The fact that it kills from such long ranges removes the need for movement around the map.

343 did seem to up the bloom in the last few days however.

5

Nice post, what would you suggest? Slightly more bloom and +.3 second to the ROF? sounds like that should even it up a little.

6

I usually avoid threads like this where people are just complaining about the game but I do wish the br had a faster fire rate

7

Nice answers so far, I’m hoping to see more. I like the DMR but I sadly have to use it for 2 classes out of 4 i can get for now. Its not much of I can try this weapon with my own playstyle but more like I need to to that weapon because its nessessary or else I will only die.

If anyone complains about the DMR being too hard if they did reduce the ROF or increase bloom, they should understand why, if its a weapon for mid-long range, then it would have a hard time up close I mean its not like in other shooters like Team Fortress 2 or any modern military shooter you would go out of your way expecting something out of the weapon’s intended range. I mean sniper in TF2 can use his sniper up close but its not practical. Heavy’s minigun cannot hit things so easy at long range, so why in a game like this would it be so hard to deal with a change modifying a weapon towards what it was originally made for?

Any DMR user would still feel at home in any open big team map with an update to bloom or ROF, its just that if someone gets up close, that’s how the game works, the DMR would still have the advantage on larger open maps as it should but still be weaker up close should someone work their way into range or a tight area they had the advantage. It would not be surprising to I don’t know in team games those on defense could use the BR or carbine to protect your flag at close range and those with the DMR or light rifle to go on the offensive due to the map supporting their range more. Its not really that hard to imagine this type of change.

8

I honestly feel like the DMR and the BR outclass each other in their respective ranges. I usually use the BR in regular infinity slayer and the DMR in big team, and it works for me. I don’t think either weapon needs to change. Honestly, I like the carbine the way it is right now, too. The only weapon that FEELS underpowered to me is the lightrifle, and that’s because it’s not hitscan so it’s harder to spam from a distance.

9

> As far as I see it, the DMR is OP, its almost like a forced weapon just because its not even by choice, more like its required.
>
> For anyone saying the DMR is fine, you have got to be freaking kidding me, I mean absolutely kidding me.
>
> Did you all forget why we had bloom with the DMR in reach? To keep it from BR spamming like in 3. Cause this community complains about everything, they want their weapon to be perfect with no penalty for sustained fire. Its a gun, all guns recoil and shift after firing, every shooter since the shift to 3d has done that.
>
> The problem with the DMR is not its clip size, power, range, or accuracy, its its rate of fire and/or bloom.
>
> Now you say its fine but look at this:
>
> BR and DMR are equal in power -Good
> 12-14 shots or rather 36 separate bullets and 14 total shots- Pretty much evens it out when you look at it that way, BR more single bullets but less shots per clip this works too.
>
> What keeps them in check to punish sustained fire?
>
> BR- recoil with every shot, does not loose accuracy only shifts your view.
> DMR- Bloom, however this is what gets bad, THE BLOOM DOES NOTHING.
>
> We know the BR was made for mid-close range but it could still get a kill at longer range if you were careful, it would just be very hard. The DMR was made for mid-long range but not as long as the sniper. Yet because the DMR has a higher rate of fire with no loss of accuracy, do you guys not see the simple problem?
>
> BR and DMR share so many similarities, but when one weapon has more ammo, a higher rate of fire, nothing to punish sustained fire, range, and every shot does the full damage, what sense would it make to take the br, the weapon that’s practically outclassed by the DMR in nearly every way? Only advantage the BR has is when it comes to an exposed headshot and a slightly faster reload but those don’t help in practically anyway.
>
> Its because the bloom does NOTHING and the rate of fire is higher, the DMR can get kills from the hip easier WITHOUT PENALTY.
>
> The BR is made for close to mid range, but if it can only have a decent chance at long range, what sense does it make for the DMR to have such an easy time even at close range? You know how its hard to get someone up close with a sniper? The sniper is not made for close range but has a very small chance of success by a no-scope or bodyshot-beatdown combo. You would never always use the sniper up close but know it at least has a very small chance of winning in close combat. So what sense does it make to keep the DMR as it is, no penalty and impeding on the BR which still suffers? I’ve beaten DMR users with the BR but its still just annoying to know I get accuracy penalties and they don’t? What freaking logic is that?
>
> The DMR needs either bloom to punish, trigger happy people or its ROF cut a bit. If you made a weapon for mid to long range, then it should be made for such, that. The DMR would be the bridge between BR and sniper, its supposed to be better at range than the BR but better up close than the Sniper. If you use the DMR it should be so that you have the advantage if you keep the enemy away, it should be a disadvantage if they managed to get up close. If the sniper had hardly any chance up close, you should have a decent one.
>
> I know others will reply but please let me hear this “logic” please tell me why the DMR is good as is with its current near superior in every way to the BR and why its actually good for the DMR to never loose accuracy while the BR does.
>
> What about the carbine and light rifle? I have no problem with those, carbine is the weakest but has the highest ROF and clip size, if anything that’s the only gun which should not suffer penlites to accuracy, you need to get in close and the guy getting shot has enough time to realize whats going on. The light rifle as well, its situational. Close up its like the BR but cannot carry the 3-round burst to scope mode. When scoped, yes it is powerful but the ROF is slow. You almost take a sentry position with it scoped in.
>
> So please halo 4 players, tell me the logic of the DMR being balanced as is, because if one weapon manages to outclass another in almost every way, how is that fair? In a close up fight you would expect the weapon made for close range (BR) to win but instead its the weapon made for mid-long range (DMR). If this is the logic shooters are going to start following with weapons dominating in ranges they should not, I’m already awaiting that shotgun sniper, Im ready to cross map snipe people with my spread shots.
>
> I’m looking forward to this ‘logic’

I love this man :3

10

if the BR was made better by any means it would ruin the balance of the rest of the weapons, the DMR just needs to have a small nerf. Something like slower ROF or a 6SK while unscoped combined with more bloom to prevent hipfire spammers.

11

The DMR really needs something to make it not so OP right now and that lies in the ROF or the Bloom.

Plus the light rifle is fine, I mean if its strong only when scoped but not hitscan, its a trade off for power and no hitscan. You actually need to lead your shot like in 3.

All the weapons in Halo are supposed to be designed around situation. The all purpose weapons have always been designed around utility purposes. They can do well with any other paired weapon and offensive, defensive, or support roles.

In 3, I felt that this was the game where all weapons were most balanced I mean even the BR had its limits, it couldn’t spam across a map and it would lose close range fights at times. The DMR in reach was fair as well, I mean with an open map like hemorrhage it would be easy to cross map shoot someone, hence the bloom to limit this.

Thats the purpose of weapon balance, if something does not have any limitation, it makes other weapons worthless and unessessary. Kinda like the DMR is in Halo 4 right now, why would anyone even need to use a weapon which is outclassed in nearly every way?

I mean imagine if the scattershot beat the shotgun in every situation, the semi-auto fire alone would make it more attractive. why would we even need a pump action shotgun? But the shotgun fits right in well with the scattershot, the shotgun is stronger due to it being pump action and it has hitscan for up close.

If those weapons could fit, how hard is it to just acknoldge that the DMR has a few overtighted screws and it needs to give a bit of its power up.

343 should have noticed all the complaints and issues by now, just leaving it as it is would only show that they really did not care either way. If you want your DMR to be perfect, play MLG, most of us would rather have a mode where each weapon has a weakness or limitation. I want team slayer or rather any base mode to be Halo, as it should be. Halo is a sandbox game, every multiplayer mode and map has had situations where you could overcome another enemy player with enough teamwork, skill, and cunning. If I could get 2 snipers off guard with a simple pistol, its because my weapon had the advantage up close. I want to play halo 4 as it was meant to, giving me the choice with my loadouts knowing that dependent on my starting weapons, I’m limited in some way, all weapons are situational NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EFFECTIVE AT ALL RANGES.

343 needs to be aware of this, its not a matter of what they feel, its whats right. I’m no game designer but is not hard to see weapon balance or even imagine something like this. If the next 3 years are just DMR DMR DMR, this would sadly be the first Halo game I would actually HATE competitive multiplayer, I mean love the weapons in Halo 4 but if all of them are dominated by one and worst of all, one is outclassed by it in every way, that is not good, its like you get a hacksaw and a chainsaw, who would take the hacksaw and do the longer work nowadays? The chainsaw has some limits like running out of fuel but even then, who would practically use the hacksaw?

The BR is in a bad position right now and this needs to be changed. Its not a matter of loving or hating a weapon, I like the DMR and it can work alongside the BR its just that it needs bloom for ammo spammers or a slower ROF to make overall kill speed longer. If its made for long range then use it for long range. Someone gets up close, get ready and do your best otherwise its obvious why you died, they had a weapon suited for close range. If someone killed you up close with a sniper, would you complain? Not likely you know its a small chance to win, so why would you complain about the BR, carbine, or AR killing you up close? This is why the DMR is caused to have an actual weakness, it needs it for the sake of the sandbox.

12

> OP

The DMR is not OP, but it’s still better than the BR.

It’s not better at close range. It’s simply equal to the BR provided you don’t miss. If people don’t miss with it, that seems fine to me.

The DMR is the more skillful weapon at close range since it punishes missing a lot more. BR spread making headshot whipping possible at certain ranges.

You can’t say “DMR spamming” is the problem. The problem is not being able to counter it by strafing due to the autoaim. If DMR spamming with less autoaim bothers you, get better at the game. If that’s not what you meant, I agree. I don’t think firing shots as fast as possible and landing all of them should ever be punished. What should be punished is the lack of a good strafe, or bad aim too easily correctible.

Edit

13

No. The DMR does not need a nerf. The BR needs a buff.

14

The BR needs a patch. The BR is inferior.

15

Oh yes, the BR is so underpowered.

Said NO ONE facing one with an AR, EVER. “AR is better in close quarters!” Yeah, right, only if you’re shoving your gun barrel up your opponents nostrils. Otherwise? Ping, ping, ping, headshot. BR wins.

If you are trying to out-snipe a DMR with a BR then that’s your own damn fault. I’ve been killed WAY more by BR spam than I have DMRs, except on the no-brainer-choice maps like Ragnarok.

16

The BR is perfectly fine how it is. The DMR needs a Rate of Fire nerf and the Covenant Carbine needs a damage buff I feel.

17

I wonder, has anyone extensively tested a DMR vs BR battle offline? By extensive testing, I mean at every single range, on every single available map?

Personally, I’d like to see the results of that test before making any judgement calls either way.

18

> The BR is perfectly fine how it is. The DMR needs a Rate of Fire nerf and the Covenant Carbine needs a damage buff I feel.

No, the BR isn’t fine. The DMR is ok; The other guns just suck. The BR needs a damage buff - a 4 shot kill? Even if they made it so that shields are down on the 4th shots second bullet, and the last shot becomes the headshot, it would be far more useful in close range.

19

I think this is the answer:

  • increase BR bullet spread and inaccuracies at longer ranges
  • Make DMR have a ton of bloom unless you are zoomed in.
  • Make it so that if you get hit, you get taken out of scope

The only problem then is that the light rifle may be killed if you have people taken out of scope on hit.

The problem with just weakening the DMR though and not taking people out of scope is that it makes the sniper too powerful. The sniper needs a nerf - I think getting taken out of scope while zoomed in + massive “always on” bloom when zoomed out is the answer for the sniper.

The kill times are also nearly too fast, so I don’t feel the answer is to buff the BR. That would also destroy the AR and magnum.

20

Your wrong - the BR is more likely to win at close ranges against a DMR, simply because one can ‘sweep’ across the body or head of an enemy and still catch them, because of the burst fire. Put two decent players in close quarters, and the BR user will win the battle more on average.
However, I still think the DMR needs a tweak - just not any god awful bloom, or any extreme rate of fire change. What I think it needs is less aim assist, and smaller hitboxes [although this would obviously effect every gun and thus be problematic] so that it is still deadly at long-range, but takes a lot mor skill to use. A tweak to the strafing mechanics could also serve to widen this skill gap.

I just DO NOT want to go back to the days of the DMR with bloom, which created slow boring gameplay, or the random BR from halo 3, which relied more on random luck than skill. I see why a lot of ‘casuals’ do want to go back to this - because it means they can have fun messing around carelessly in the game without being punished by good players. Alas, that is no longer true - noobs are ruthlessly annihilated in this game now, and I personally like that.