DMR is ruining Halo

No they can’t nerf the DMR without making it a medium range weapon. I suggest a buff to the BR:

Faster fire rate and lower recoil per burst

OR

Make it a 4 shot kill in close quarters. In and out of zoom.

If they lower the fire rate to the DMR, the Light Rifle will take over as it will be on par with the DMR. If you add bloom it will become a medium range weapon instead of its advertised long range capabilities. Don’t nerf the DMR, buff the BR in <mark>ONE</mark> of those 2 mentioned above.

I love the DMR but the BR can’t compete. Make it a “rock, paper, scissors” thing.

> Deaths:
> BR - 530
> DMR - 832
>
> -Note the amount of deaths to the DMR compared to any other weapon.

There is no justifiable connection between the amount of usage of a weapon and the power of the weapon. For example, the AR has traditionally been one of the weakest weapons in the sandbox. In Reach, the Magnum could beat it at every single area. Now, why is it that you still ran to more people using the AR than the Magnum?

That said, there is a power difference between the BR and the DMR. However, declaring it the DMR’s fault without considering the whole gameplay sandbox of the game first is short sighted at best. Even a simple look at the weapon sandobx reveals that DMR isn’t necessarily the weapon that has the problem as it’s in near perfect equilibrium with the AR. Ultimately, declaring the whole power difference between the DMR and BR overpowered or underpowered is such a hyperbole. If the DMR user misses a shot while the BR user doesn’t, they will lose. Only when both players manage to put equal amounts of shots does the DMR win. Was there a severe balance issue, the BR would have very little chance beating the DMR in almost any circumstances. But as of now, skill larger factor than the weapon being used.

> Now that’s out of the way let me tell you why the DMR is op like all the studies and facts and tests that have been posted on this forum.

First of all, DMR does have bloom, slight, but bloom nonetheless. The other facts you listed are facts indeed, but none of them really make the DMR overpowered. When compared to the BR, the only thing that needs to concern us is the difficulty of usage versus kill time. Of course both are in the favor of DMR as it’s both faster and easier to use. However, as I concluded, the differences are so miniscule that you can declare neither of the weapons overpowered or underpowered. I called their relation “slightly unbalanced” earlier in this thread as that’s the only properly objective way to describe it.

> All this coupled with the sub-par maps in this game make this an extremely threatening weapon. If anything one could use it against any and every situation. Cross mapping is a complete joke and is literally forcing no map movement.

Map quality hardly affects the balance between the BR and the DMR. As a matter of fact, the balance stays similar regardless of map design. However, there is another misconception you made here. The reason map movement isn’t encouraged is not cross mapping, it’s the lack of incentive to move to different places when every player gets to spawn their own power weapons without there being common power weapon spawns that would get fought over.

> Engagements are stagnant and utterly boring with people camping behind walls and running away every time their shields go down because they can just camp one spot due to the effective range of this gun.

There is no blaming of the weapon if the game encourages camping. First of all, the effective range of the precision weapons has always been long in every Halo. It has no effect on the amount of camping. Again, people don’t usually sit at one spot because their weapon has enough range, they sit there because they have nowhere to go. In the end, the amount of camping I have seen in Halo 4 is minimal. Most often the campers have been new players who aren’t good enough yet to play the game. This game has its problems, but camping definitely isn’t one of them.

> The DMR has turned this game into a run and hide camp fest that promotes long, stagnant, boring games and has removed any feel that halo once had because those epic medium/close range engagements are avoided. THIS IS NOT HALO!

My experience is the exact opposite. The fast kill times result in encounters where a player usually doesn’t manage to escape which favors fast gameplay. Even though the game lacks the incentive to move around the map, most players I run into seem to move fairly actively. Compared to Reach, the pace of gameplay is much faster mostly due to decreased kill times and the ability to respawn instantly.

> The BR was the original source of Halo 2s and 3s greatness. It didn’t have the range and power of the DMR so people didn’t need to be afraid to move across the map and people didn’t always spawn with depending on the playlist. End even though it was the go to weapon for medium to moderately long engagements it was nowhere near as effective against everything like the DMR is.

Now you are only being sentimental. First of all, the Halo 2 BR did have the ability to kill at quite a long range. Halo 3 was the only game where the BR spread was so pathetically large that you couldn’t use it effectively at range. The DMR’s range isn’t even one of the problems in the weapon sandbox. As a matter of fact, it’s only good to have a weapon that is capable of being precise in long range encounters. If there is anything deterring people from moving around the map, it’s the map design, movement speed, and lack of incentive to move.

BR - mid range, 3 shot burst, has slight recoil (reticule goes up slightly when firing), moderate rate of fire, 5 shot kill.

DMR - Can shoot across the damn map, has no recoil, bloom doesn’t make an inch of difference, 5 shot kill, slightly faster rate of fire than the BR, shreds vehicle as if it’s a Sniper.

Someone please explain to me how in the world that is balanced.

Why in earth should i use BR when DMR wins it in any given situation? Yeah…

> > People the simple way to end this silly arguement is by the numbers. Go in and look at what weapons you die to and how often.
> >
> > If it is true that most people are using the DMR in the game and that the DMR is way overpowered why are deaths to the DMR and the BR so similar. If in fact too many people are using the DMR meaning that a larger portion of the population is using it online that means your opportunity to die to this weapon is much greater than the BR, its simple math. So if that is true and more people are using it but your deaths to the 2 weapons are similar one could easily draw the conclusion that the BR is more powerful(I don’t believe this but the numbers would suggest this more than the contrary that people seem to believe). Simply because if less people are using it but people are dying to it just as much as the DMR or close to it than that means people using the BR are getting more kills than those using the DMR per match.
> >
> > Before you start with these silly arguements please just look at the stats. If the DMR was truly more powerful and everyone was using it than your amount of deaths to that weapon would greatly outnumber your deaths to the BR. But that is simply not the case and people just want to complain because someone else is a little better at the game then they are.
>
> Deaths:
> BR - 530
> DMR - 832
>
> -Note the amount of deaths to the DMR compared to any other weapon.
>
> Now that’s out of the way let me tell you why the DMR is op like all the studies and facts and tests that have been posted on this forum.
>
> DMR:
> -14 shots in mag, takes 5 to kill, so you can kill 2 targets and miss 4 shots.
> -No recoil
> -Instant muzzle reset
> -Fast Kill time
> -No bloom(now you can spam this Yoink! too with no consequences!)
> -Deadly at any range
> -Massive aim assist from hip and when scoped
> -Does not un-scope when hit(for a gun with instant muzzle reset and no recoil this a huge advantage over all other guns).
> -Does good dmg to vehicles (teams using DMRs can shred vehicles in seconds)
>
> All this coupled with the sub-par maps in this game make this an extremely threatening weapon. If anything one could use it against any and every situation. Cross mapping is a complete joke and is literally forcing no map movement.
>
> Engagements are stagnant and utterly boring with people camping behind walls and running away every time their shields go down because they can just camp one spot due to the effective range of this gun.
>
> The DMR has turned this game into a run and hide camp fest that promotes long, stagnant, boring games and has removed any feel that halo once had because those epic medium/close range engagements are avoided. THIS IS NOT HALO!
>
> Battle Rifle:
> -36 bullets in mag, 3 per shot, 5 to kill so 15 bullets per kill, two kills per mag. Allows for two missed shots.
> -Muzzle does not reset after each shot.
> -Has recoil (after every burst).
> -Slight bloom.
> -All 3 bullets must hit a shielded target to maximize dmg
> -moderate vehicle kill time
> -Effective at medium/close range against other BRs/Carbines/Light Rifles, but questionable against full auto rifles.
>
> The BR was the original source of Halo 2s and 3s greatness. It didn’t have the range and power of the DMR so people didn’t need to be afraid to move across the map and people didn’t always spawn with depending on the playlist. End even though it was the go to weapon for medium to moderately long engagements it was nowhere near as effective against everything like the DMR is.

So if you look at your stats 14% of your deaths are to the BR and 23% to the BR. Which simply can be explained by a few more people use the DMR than the BR. Or more simple terms you die to the DMR 1.96 a match and the BR 1.25. So you are whining that the DMR is WAY to overpowered because you die to is .71 more times per match were not even talking a full death more per match. My own is 591 deaths to the DMR and 409 to the BR. The spread is soo insignificant to be whining about.

> > Deaths:
> > BR - 530
> > DMR - 832
>
>
>
> > -Note the amount of deaths to the DMR compared to any other weapon.
>
> There is no justifiable connection between the amount of usage of a weapon and the power of the weapon. For example, the AR has traditionally been one of the weakest weapons in the sandbox. In Reach, the Magnum could beat it at every single area. Now, why is it that you still ran to more people using the AR than the Magnum?
>
> That said, there is a power difference between the BR and the DMR. However, declaring it the DMR’s fault without considering the whole gameplay sandbox of the game first is short sighted at best. Even a simple look at the weapon sandobx reveals that DMR isn’t necessarily the weapon that has the problem as it’s in near perfect equilibrium with the AR. Ultimately, declaring the whole power difference between the DMR and BR overpowered or underpowered is such a hyperbole. If the DMR user misses a shot while the BR user doesn’t, they will lose. Only when both players manage to put equal amounts of shots does the DMR win. Was there a severe balance issue, the BR would have very little chance beating the DMR in almost any circumstances. But as of now, skill larger factor than the weapon being used.

This would take a whole page if I quoted and replied to everything so I’ll try and keep it short and point out certain points that I find arguable.

Regarding the usage of any weapon it does have a connection between usage and power since a weapon’s power translates into how much the majority is willing to use it, it’s simply the nature of things when talking about the majority of players. When referring to the op’ness or up’ness between the DMR and BR its mainly targeted at the DMR being too effective in zones where other weapons supposedly excel at(just like the dmr is supposed to excel at long range supposedly).

As for your example on missing shots, from personal experience against dmr users it tends to end in either both dying even if the DMR does miss due to the fire rate, and if it doesn’t the faster fire rate and allowance to miss 2 more shots over the BR favor it in any combat engagement (this is also considering the BR’s burst actually hits with all 3 bullets)

Skill does play a factor in a guns effectiveness however with the current state of the DMR and maps it will only take you so far before one has to be forced to use the DMR to compete better against others with it.

As for the maps, they have always played a huge factor in gun balance in a game. Yes in an controlled test maps don’t matter, but since most problems are best viewed in real scenarios it is therefore beneficial to tackle the problem while considering real scenario gameplay. What I mean is that guns perform differently on different maps, A sniper excels on maps which are wide open maps just like a shotgun excels in closed up maps and their effectiveness drops from those points. The DMR simply does not have that drop, it excels on every map in almost every situations unless its within a scattershot/shotgun kill range and other 1 shot kill weapons.

The DMR having bloom is arguable, bluntly speaking it has none. The reason I said this is because even though it has a tiny bloom on it the muzzle instant reset and virtually no recoil doesn’t give bloom a chance to affect the gun in any way.

As for the stagnant engagements and faster kill times. This is what I can tell you with certainty, yes the faster kill times drop players faster, does it translate to faster match time? mostly no. This is due to encountering different players in MM. Mostly when people are pinned down with DMRs they simply stop giving the enemy team a chance to shred em by constantly hiding and runnin when shields are low which translates to long games. On the other hand you have groups that simply don’t care and run around in the open field basically saying "hey look at me! shoot me!

The BR in halo 2 + 3 might seem like they were effective at killing at long range because a gun like the DMR wasn’t in those games. Even though it was the go to weapon back then for medium to long range it still lost to the AR 50% of the time at medium and almost always at close. This can still be seen in Halo 4 since the AR has finally been fixed. The point is like it has been stated previously the DMR is too easy to kill with because of its universal application in the game which is made possibly by the way the gun works and contribution from maps which favor it which atm is ever map.

> > > People the simple way to end this silly arguement is by the numbers. Go in and look at what weapons you die to and how often.
> > >
> > > If it is true that most people are using the DMR in the game and that the DMR is way overpowered why are deaths to the DMR and the BR so similar. If in fact too many people are using the DMR meaning that a larger portion of the population is using it online that means your opportunity to die to this weapon is much greater than the BR, its simple math. So if that is true and more people are using it but your deaths to the 2 weapons are similar one could easily draw the conclusion that the BR is more powerful(I don’t believe this but the numbers would suggest this more than the contrary that people seem to believe). Simply because if less people are using it but people are dying to it just as much as the DMR or close to it than that means people using the BR are getting more kills than those using the DMR per match.
> > >
> > > Before you start with these silly arguements please just look at the stats. If the DMR was truly more powerful and everyone was using it than your amount of deaths to that weapon would greatly outnumber your deaths to the BR. But that is simply not the case and people just want to complain because someone else is a little better at the game then they are.
> >
> > Deaths:
> > BR - 530
> > DMR - 832
> >
> > -Note the amount of deaths to the DMR compared to any other weapon.
> >
> > Now that’s out of the way let me tell you why the DMR is op like all the studies and facts and tests that have been posted on this forum.
> >
> > DMR:
> > -14 shots in mag, takes 5 to kill, so you can kill 2 targets and miss 4 shots.
> > -No recoil
> > -Instant muzzle reset
> > -Fast Kill time
> > -No bloom(now you can spam this Yoink! too with no consequences!)
> > -Deadly at any range
> > -Massive aim assist from hip and when scoped
> > -Does not un-scope when hit(for a gun with instant muzzle reset and no recoil this a huge advantage over all other guns).
> > -Does good dmg to vehicles (teams using DMRs can shred vehicles in seconds)
> >
> > All this coupled with the sub-par maps in this game make this an extremely threatening weapon. If anything one could use it against any and every situation. Cross mapping is a complete joke and is literally forcing no map movement.
> >
> > Engagements are stagnant and utterly boring with people camping behind walls and running away every time their shields go down because they can just camp one spot due to the effective range of this gun.
> >
> > The DMR has turned this game into a run and hide camp fest that promotes long, stagnant, boring games and has removed any feel that halo once had because those epic medium/close range engagements are avoided. THIS IS NOT HALO!
> >
> > Battle Rifle:
> > -36 bullets in mag, 3 per shot, 5 to kill so 15 bullets per kill, two kills per mag. Allows for two missed shots.
> > -Muzzle does not reset after each shot.
> > -Has recoil (after every burst).
> > -Slight bloom.
> > -All 3 bullets must hit a shielded target to maximize dmg
> > -moderate vehicle kill time
> > -Effective at medium/close range against other BRs/Carbines/Light Rifles, but questionable against full auto rifles.
> >
> > The BR was the original source of Halo 2s and 3s greatness. It didn’t have the range and power of the DMR so people didn’t need to be afraid to move across the map and people didn’t always spawn with depending on the playlist. End even though it was the go to weapon for medium to moderately long engagements it was nowhere near as effective against everything like the DMR is.
>
> So if you look at your stats 14% of your deaths are to the BR and 23% to the BR. Which simply can be explained by a few more people use the DMR than the BR. Or more simple terms you die to the DMR 1.96 a match and the BR 1.25. So you are whining that the DMR is WAY to overpowered because you die to is .71 more times per match were not even talking a full death more per match. My own is 591 deaths to the DMR and 409 to the BR. The spread is soo insignificant to be whining about.

You wanted us to look at our deaths before posting, I did, now your saying it’s too insignificant to be of use? please… . I have died nearly twice as much then you from it and the difference is 302 kills between the two weapons.

Its getting to the point where people who use the DMR love the advantage it gives are trying to keep it that way by pulling anything and everything out their -Yoinks!- these days. I have concluded that DMR users either 1. Have never used anything besides the DMR or 2. You understand it’s serious advantage over everything else and don’t want to lose the advantage.

> The team with the most DMRs always wins. DMR vs any other weapon is just too powerful.
>
> I’m sick of dying so much by DMR also because I refuse to use it, ALL WE NEED IS BR and friends.
>
> 343 Should have left the DMR in reach.
>
> Who even thinks of using the carbine when everyone has DMRs?
>
> Bleeping bleepity honk blank zoink -Yoink!- DMRs!

DMRs are not ruining Halo. I’m getting killed in Halo by guys with assault rifles and battle rifles, not DMRs…

> So if you look at your stats 14% of your deaths are to the BR and 23% to the BR. Which simply can be explained by a few more people use the DMR than the BR. Or more simple terms you die to the DMR 1.96 a match and the BR 1.25. So you are whining that the DMR is WAY to overpowered because you die to is .71 more times per match were not even talking a full death more per match. My own is 591 deaths to the DMR and 409 to the BR. The spread is soo insignificant to be whining about.

As for your own difference in deaths against each weapon you have to understand the difference in combat scenarios between you yourself using a DMR over someone who uses a BR.

With a DMR you are more able to defend yourself against other DMR users and have a range advantage over BR and other rifle users.

The dmr is way to OP. They really need to bring back the Halo 1 pistol. Or Halo 2 noob combo.

> Regarding the usage of any weapon it does have a connection between usage and power since a weapon’s power translates into how much the majority is willing to use it, it’s simply the nature of things when talking about the majority of players. When referring to the op’ness or up’ness between the DMR and BR its mainly targeted at the DMR being too effective in zones where other weapons supposedly excel at(just like the dmr is supposed to excel at long range supposedly).

But you see, taking your stats and comparing your deaths to BR with your DMR isn’t sufficient nor does it prove anything. Assuming the DMR is actually the most used weapon in matchmaking (no one has concrete proof it actually is), it would of course result in more deaths from DMR than BR. However, it should be noted that the latter is caused by the former,a not by the fact that having DMR would be beneficial over having a BR. If you want to prove anything statistically, you better go asking 343i for the global DMR versus BR usage rates and compare them to the global kill counts for both weapons. Spouting random numbers simply because they seemingly support your point doesn’t help as they are merely a fraction of the total.

> As for your example on missing shots, from personal experience against dmr users it tends to end in either both dying even if the DMR does miss due to the fire rate, and if it doesn’t the faster fire rate and allowance to miss 2 more shots over the BR favor it in any combat engagement (this is also considering the BR’s burst actually hits with all 3 bullets)

I can’t speak for your gameplay experience, but assuming the DMR misses a single shot, that small mistakes extends the kill time so much that unless the BR also misses one shot worth of bullets, it’s impossible for them to lose unless the BR user is very slow with their aim. In most scenarios, you are going to start the encounter with full magazine, so the extra two shots don’t matter a lot in many cases. In the end, it’s merely a matter of player choice do they miss the shots. You should only encounter an opponent if you know you have enough shots left to kill them. So, that two shot difference doesn’t really matter unless in special 2v1 encounters.

> As for the maps, they have always played a huge factor in gun balance in a game. Yes in an controlled test maps don’t matter, but since most problems are best viewed in real scenarios it is therefore beneficial to tackle the problem while considering real scenario gameplay. What I mean is that guns perform differently on different maps, A sniper excels on maps which are wide open maps just like a shotgun excels in closed up maps and their effectiveness drops from those points. The DMR simply does not have that drop, it excels on every map in almost every situations unless its within a scattershot/shotgun kill range and other 1 shot kill weapons.

Map being designed for long range combat is doesn’t equal bad weapon balance. The map doesn’t make the weapon balance any worse or better. Maps are simply designed for different kinds of weapons. Now, a whole another debate is does Halo 4 have too many long range maps.

> The DMR having bloom is arguable, bluntly speaking it has none. The reason I said this is because even though it has a tiny bloom on it the muzzle instant reset and virtually no recoil doesn’t give bloom a chance to affect the gun in any way.

You are probably right at this. The only times the bloom has screwed me has been when my aim was absolutely horrible.

> As for the stagnant engagements and faster kill times. This is what I can tell you with certainty, yes the faster kill times drop players faster, does it translate to faster match time? mostly no. This is due to encountering different players in MM. Mostly when people are pinned down with DMRs they simply stop giving the enemy team a chance to shred em by constantly hiding and runnin when shields are low which translates to long games. On the other hand you have groups that simply don’t care and run around in the open field basically saying "hey look at me! shoot me!

In my regular matchmaking match, the people whom I encounter either don’t manage to escape, or I encounter them from a very bad position which lets them escape, which makes it my fault. If players are hiding and running without even attempting to engage, that has absolutely nothing to do with the kill times. Chances are, those people would be hiding and running even if the kill times were significantly slower. Kill times themselves always has a positive effect on gameplay speed as long as the map design allows for movement. This is due to the simple fact that the faster a kill happens, the less chances there are for one of the player escaping from the encounter. There is zero rationality and evidence behind the claim that faster kill times would slow gameplay down. When gameplay is slowed down in a game with fast kill times, the problem is always something else than the kill times (for example: movement speed, map design, lack of incentive to move, et cetera).

> The BR in halo 2 + 3 might seem like they were effective at killing at long range because a gun like the DMR wasn’t in those games. <mark>Even though it was the go to weapon back then for medium to long range it still lost to the AR 50% of the time at medium and almost always at close.</mark> This can still be seen in Halo 4 since the AR has finally been fixed. The point is like it has been stated previously the DMR is too easy to kill with because of its universal application in the game which is made possibly by the way the gun works and contribution from maps which favor it which atm is ever map.

The bolded part is completely incorrect. Never has the BR lost to an AR at medium, not even mentioning long, range in any game unless the BR user absolutely screws up. I am not sure what the case in Halo 4 is, but I don’t expect a decent BR user to lose to an AR. At close range, in both Halo 2 and 3 the BR usually won the AR if the BR user was decent with their weapon. Only in matches of lower skill levels did the AR win BR at close range.

Ultimately, the DMR works exactly as a utility weapon such as it should: it’s the dominant weapon at both long and medium ranges and has a chance to beat an AR at close range. It fulfills its purpose as well as it can. The BR on the other hand, apparently doesn’t. I personally haven’t been in an AR encounter with it yet, but as far as I know, the BR user is going to have very hard time beating an AR. At the same time, it struggles to compete with other utility weapons such as the DMR and LR.

I can’t say the DMR works as intended as I can’t speak for 343i. However, it currently works in a manner most beneficial to the gameplay sandbox, serving as an accurate single shot utility weapon with a fast kill time little accuracy hindering elements. If there is anything to fix about that weapons, it’s the amount of aim assistance. Then again, that applies to every weapon in the game.

U noobs just need to learn that Halo is about putting shots on people and teamwork. I carry a LR and a suppressor and do just fine against ANY weapon. There is a lot more to playing that how strong your gun is. It’s about the approach u take.

Gun complainers are always the worst. Learn to play the game cuz nerfing weapons just to satisfy your complaints has ruined many multiplayer games

> U noobs just need to learn that Halo is about putting shots on people and teamwork. I carry a LR and a suppressor and do just fine against ANY weapon. There is a lot more to playing that how strong your gun is. It’s about the approach u take.
>
> Gun complainers are always the worst. Learn to play the game cuz nerfing weapons just to satisfy your complaints has ruined many multiplayer games

Captain Waypoint is here to save the day.

I have died almost as much to the DMR as I have to getting punched in the face. Should we nerf melee next noobs?

>

I love you.
but not that way

Oh lord, you don’t use the DMR because it’s TOO good? Do you hear yourself?

That’s like saying you don’t drive a Ferrari because it’s too fast and too awesome.

> I have died almost as much to the DMR as I have to getting punched in the face. Should we nerf melee next noobs?

I hardly ever die to the Incendiary Cannon. It needs a serious buff.

> The team with the most DMRs always wins. DMR vs any other weapon is just too powerful.
>
> I’m sick of dying so much by DMR also because I refuse to use it, ALL WE NEED IS BR and friends.
>
> 343 Should have left the DMR in reach.
>
> Who even thinks of using the carbine when everyone has DMRs?
>
> Bleeping bleepity honk blank zoink -Yoink!- DMRs!

What is everyone fing problem.
If the DMR is the most powerful gun. THAN USE IT!!!
WTF is the problem.

And 4 DMRs does not always win. The best and smartest players always win.
stop making excuses.
Either stop playing Halo 4, or learn how to play it.

Im sorry for flaming, but Im soo sick of hearing people making excuse after excuse for losing.

I don’t see how people can’t understand that when you have a group of things, one of those things will be the best, one will be the worst, etc.

Nerf the top thing, and the 2nd best now becomes the new OP.

Also it’s hilarious how many people are saying “It’s good…so I don’t use it!”

Are Halo players on some sort of idiotic honor system now?

> > I have died almost as much to the DMR as I have to getting punched in the face. Should we nerf melee next noobs?
>
> I hardly ever die to the Incendiary Cannon. It needs a serious buff.

Indeed. Maybe 343 should make a vehicle that has two drivers and two turrets and when 2 blue and 2 red get into it, it becomes invincible for the rest of the game! The we can complain about the STEERING! haha