.DMR is fine ---- .H4 DMR = H2 BR

Many of the younger players on here seem to think the DMR is some crazy overpowered weapon and isnt “Halo”. The fact is the H4 DMR is a dream come true for Halo: Combat evolved and Halo 2 fans.

> KILL TIMES
> Halo CE

]Fastest kill time was 3/3,5 > <mark>0.85 seconds</mark>
was single shot

3sk in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ocyYwLCDyCU#t=131s

> Halo 2 BR

Kill time - 4/2.4 > <mark>1.66</mark>
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/BR55_Battle_Rifle
WAS NOT BURST- AKA in reality was SINGLE SHOT
http://www.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

H4’s DMR Kill time is <mark>1.6 seconds</mark>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sEcGZyU65CM#t=59s
another source says its 1.78 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HU6--eoy668#t=149s

> ]HALO $ DMR HAS WORRRRSSSTTTT AUTOAIM/MAGNETISM EVVVVEEEERRRRRRRR I WANT REAL SKILL BACK LIKE IN HALO 2!!!

Halo 2 magnetism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ocyYwLCDyCU#t=18s

Halo 4 magnetism

Notice in the H4 video, the reticle is red <mark>EVERY TIME</mark> and the shot automatically counts.

"Halo 2’s Battle Rifle was a hitscan weapon, which is fancy terminology for “instant-hit” which is slightly less fancy terminology for “if the reticule is red when you pull the trigger (in good networking conditions) the bullet packet will hit the target.” Additionally, in Halo 2’s BR the “spread” for the three bullet fire package was reduced in the 1.1 patch, focusing the bullet delivery into a tighter packet than when the game originally shipped."
SOURCE
http://www.bungie.net/news/content.aspx?cid=14347

<mark>OMG I WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE _________ precision weapon too!!!</mark>
Halo has, from day 1, always been dominated by a single precision weapon that was VERY GOOD at pretty much every range and was better than other presion weapon that came in the game
CE- god pistol
H2/H3 - BR< Carbine& magnum
reach - DMR< NR& magnum
H4< all other presion weapons more or less

> Halo CE pistol and/or H2 BR didnt have nearly the range the h4 DMR does. Also if it did hit it took many shots to kill.

In the video below you can see a pretty long range kill which in Halo 4 is about average kill range. He only misses one shot and drops the guy in no time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Rdf2i8gzdwk#t=473s

> More long range BR domination and super fast range kills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nYQ3o7bZ3ns#t=277s

>

for closer range maps see the super fast kill times

> 1 precision weapon being God above all others is how halo has always been. DEAL WITH IT since it has NEVER been otherwise.

Sorry reach and H3 fannoys, H2 and CE kill times are back. The magnetism and kill times are the same as H2 and one precision weapon being above all precision weapons is as old as halo is. So i dont get why you are so surprised.

dmr is a gross gun. it’s from reach

I don’t think you can compare guns from across games seeing as how they are competing against different guns. that being said I don’t think any precision gun is over-powered atm. but the carbine needs a buff imo

> dmr is a gross gun. it’s from reach

LOL!

> I don’t think you can compare guns from across games seeing as how they are competing against different guns. that being said I don’t think any precision gun is over-powered atm. but the carbine needs a buff imo

Point is magnetism in H4 is nothing new or bad, expecially compared to H2’s

Point is 1 precision weapon has always been king of the other, in EVERY HALO GAME. <mark>EVER</mark>

Point is Kill time is same as H2 and longer than CE

Point is ppl complaining about H4 DMR need to go back to reach cuz real halo AKA CE/2 is back.

> > I don’t think you can compare guns from across games seeing as how they are competing against different guns. that being said I don’t think any precision gun is over-powered atm. but the carbine needs a buff imo
>
> Point is magnetism in H4 is nothing new or bad, expecially compared to H2’s
>
>
> Point is 1 precision weapon has always been king of the other, in EVERY HALO GAME. <mark>EVER</mark>
>
>
> Point is Kill time is same as H2 and longer than CE
>
>
> Point is ppl complaining about H4 DMR need to go back to reach cuz real halo AKA CE/2 is back.

wasn’t arguing the magnetism. i think the problem is people are too spoiled with choice, if they had just kept the BR or the DMR it wouldn’t have been a problem.

could also be confirmation bias. people feel like X weapon is over powered and they go searching for moments where they get killed by that weapon is use that as evidence to it being OP, completely disregarding the other moments where they trash on the weapon.

i wouldnt say its CE style is back buts that for other reasons (loadouts and the such which im not a fan of but I’ve hoped back on H3 so I’m happy)

Well then what’s the point of having loadouts if there’s a “god weapon”?
That’s why people want the DMR nerfed, everybody was fine from Halo CE to Reach that a certain gun was better than the others, me included, but in those games you spawned with the same weapons.

> Well then what’s the point of having loadouts if there’s a “god weapon”?
> That’s why people want the DMR nerfed, everybody was fine from Halo CE to Reach that a certain gun was better than the others, me included, but in those games you spawned with the same weapons.

There never was a point to loadouts. It is more or less a gimmick. In every game with loadouts there is always 1 loadout to rule them all. The great part of CE-3 is that it cut out the middle man and gave everyone the best loadout.

H4 is the same as the trilogy in main precision weapons because like CE-3 there is 1 to rule them all. Except now people have the choice to spawn with inferior weapons.

“Point is ppl complaining about H4 DMR need to go back to reach cuz real halo AKA CE/2 is back”.

… You are an idiot if you think this game is competitive or anything like ‘real Halo’, not that using such a phrase makes any sense.

You can’t start with the BR in Halo 2 compared to, say, the Carbine.

You also can’t shut down maps with the BR like you can with the DMR.

I am not going to be bothered explaining more to someone who uses ‘real Halo’ as part of any argument, however. Everyone is welcome to say their piece.

“if they had just kept the BR or the DMR it wouldn’t have been a problem”.

If they had kept only the BR and the DMR as options, it would be even worse. The BR would have absolutely no merit at all.

> “Point is ppl complaining about H4 DMR need to go back to reach cuz real halo AKA CE/2 is back”.
>
> … You are an idiot if you think this game is competitive or anything like ‘real Halo’, not that using such a phrase makes any sense.
>
> You can’t start with the BR in Halo 2 compared to, say, the Carbine.
>
> You also can’t shut down maps with the BR like you can with the DMR.
>
> I am not going to be bothered explaining more to someone who uses ‘real Halo’ as part of any argument, however. Everyone is welcome to say their piece.
>
> “if they had just kept the BR or the DMR it wouldn’t have been a problem”.
>
> If they had kept only the BR and the DMR as options, it would be even worse. The BR would have absolutely no merit at all.

H4 magnetism = H2 magnetism

H4 kill time = H2 kill time

H4 is single shot = H2 BR is in actuality…SINGLE SHOT

I got facts and numbers all backed with credible sources, what you got?

No ‘overpowered’ utility starting weapon ever had a 120m aim assist range before.

“I got facts and numbers all backed with credible sources, what you got?”.

Uh.

I have my opinion, as you have yours, and mine isn’t being ‘bolstered’ by phrases like ‘true Halo’ ; )

No, in all seriousness, you’re welcome to have your opinion. I just don’t agree and don’t see how you could possibly support the DMR, but if you only use that, well… that doesn’t surprise me.

Everyone likes their favourite thing being even better ; )

> Point is ppl complaining about H4 DMR need to go back to reach cuz real halo AKA CE/2 is back.

Don’t compare the abomination called Halo 4 with Halo: CE.

The H2 BR could not kill people across the map.

looked like you forgot that little fact there.
you know, the reason why the DMR have destroyed BTB.

The only reason the BR couldn’t dominate Coagulation in H2 is because the netcoding wouldn’t let it. You couldn’t shoot clean across the map and expect a hit in pretty much any match.

In the modern day you can. The maps should be designed more around this, but instead we have maps with tons of wide open areas with little cover. The DMR wouldn’t be able to shut down maps if they all weren’t wide open like Valhalla.

The BR on Halo 2 sucked cross map, it behaved a lot more like the Halo 3 BR at that range due to netcode issues and a little spread. It’s only close range that it behaves like the H4 DMR. It also had less aim assist at long range with a lower zoom. Also it got knocked out of scope when shot, again reducing the aim assist. Also weapons on the map were strong enough to counteract it (plasma rifle + smg, 2 pistols, pistol + plasma pistol etc).

The DMR is a virtually guaranteed 5 shot kill from any range, and it leads to campy/slow gameplay since nobody is able to walk around freely when any player (good or not) can 5 shot them with ease. There’s also no mechanics like BXR or RRX to let a good player come back after being shot first. Also it is far more damaging against vehicles compared to Halo 2’s virtually useless weapon vs vehicle combat.

The DMR is more powerful and yet takes less skill to use. It’s really nothing like the Halo 2 BR.

> “I got facts and numbers all backed with credible sources, what you got?”.
>
>
> Uh.
>
> I have my opinion, as you have yours, and mine isn’t being ‘bolstered’ by phrases like ‘true Halo’ ; )
>
> No, in all seriousness, you’re welcome to have your opinion. I just don’t agree and don’t see how you could possibly support the DMR, but if you only use that, well… that doesn’t surprise me.
>
> Everyone likes their favourite thing being even better ; )

Well I will admit I dont play BTB so the range issue doesnt really affect me

When I say the H2 br is virtually the same as the H4 DMR I am coming from a 4v4 perspective, like this game here.

When I said “true halo” I mean fast kill times and powerful long range single shot weapons (compared to 3 or reach)

> The BR on Halo 2 sucked cross map, it behaved a lot more like the Halo 3 BR at that range due to netcode issues and a little spread. It’s only close range that it behaves like the H4 DMR. It also had less aim assist at long range with a lower zoom. Also it got knocked out of scope when shot, again reducing the aim assist. Also weapons on the map were strong enough to counteract it (plasma rifle + smg, 2 pistols, pistol + plasma pistol etc).
>
> The DMR is a virtually guaranteed 5 shot kill from any range, and it leads to campy/slow gameplay since nobody is able to walk around freely when any player (good or not) can 5 shot them with ease. There’s also no mechanics like BXR or RRX to let a good player come back after being shot first. Also it is far more damaging against vehicles compared to Halo 2’s virtually useless weapon vs vehicle combat.
>
> The DMR is more powerful and yet takes less skill to use. It’s really nothing like the Halo 2 BR.

Good point on the H2 BR range, though my point on the DMRs range being nothing new comes more from CE than H2.

Back in the day I played lots of lans and console CE online via xbox connect and remember very well the pistol fights that would take place between camo/overshield and top blue base

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tr_Ps_HV1r8#t=56s

Yes there was travel time in CE but the sheer ROF and deep clip of the CE pistol made it relatively insignificant

Oh dear. That player was atrocious.

H3 didn’t have amazingly fast killtimes but it was reasonable in that regard. They need to be slow enough to be meaningful. Never understood the appeal of extremely fast gameplay.

Interesting that you mentioned true Halo consisting of powerful, one-shot weapons when you offered an awful Halo 2 clip.

> Good point on the H2 BR range, though my point on the DMRs range being nothing new comes more from CE than H2.
>
> Back in the day I played lots of lans and console CE online via xbox connect and remember very well the pistol fights that would take place between camo/overshield and top blue base
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tr_Ps_HV1r8#t=56s
>
> Yes there was travel time in CE but the sheer ROF and deep clip of the CE pistol made it relatively insignificant

The range isn’t a huge problem if it takes skill to win the fight, and if the average player misses a fair few shots. If you played with the CE Pistol on a map like Valhalla you’d be safe to sit at top-middle because nobody would kill you quick enough from range to take you out. Sure, there’s a hypothetical 0.85 second kill from the bases to top-middle, but the average time would be closer to 3 or 4 seconds, probably requiring a reload - and this is the number that really counts. In Halo 4 if someone doesn’t 5 or 6 shot you from their base when you’re top middle they really -Yoinked!- up.

We’re looking at a 2 second kill time maximum at long range with the DMR, and it’s way too small for a starting weapon. I can’t imagine how badly a game would play consisting of all 50s (in Halo 3 rankings) compared to how it played before. Even the DMR on Reach with bloom killed too fast and consistently at long range, making maps like Blood Gulch no fun to play, even though they worked great in Halo CE and 2.

This argument also applies in part to the other starting rifles. They’re all too strong at long range and it does break maps and encourage campy gameplay, just the DMR is a far worse offender than the rest. I really think the only reason this game plays smoothly on big maps is because of the people who are happy to run around and get slaughtered.