So I’ve been digging into the TU beta, and I’m finding that the reduced bloom seems to be more fun than zero bloom. As much as I hate to echo so many other people (I prefer original thinking), I have to say, zero bloom just feels like Call of Duty. There’s no time to maneuver, and dropping someone who nearly had you killed because you were clever about it is too critical to the Halo experience.
The TU bloom settings still allow for just this kind of thing, and have you tried crouching? It nearly eliminates bloom altogether!
In Halo 3 the BR spread made the amount of damage you could do with each shot fired vary. You had to lead your shots a bit, and when firing you had to keep the reticle trained on your opponent. TU bloom seems closer to this, whereas zero bloom feels more like swat.
My only suggestion would be to lower bloom to maybe 60%. Then you have a weapon that is accurate, and which requires some thought to maintain optimal cadence.
85% is still an improvement! The Reach bloom was HUGE in comparison!
Partly a matter of opinion and strongly a matter of the level of gameplay. I’ve played games of zero bloom with my friends and must say that I have absolutely no problems with the speed of kill times. In fact, the speed is perfect. With clever movement and good aim you can still kill your opponent even when surprised.
This is why I’m on the side of zero bloom, it has a bigger skill value which makes games more interesting on higher levels of gameplay. The kill times aren’t too fast to not give you time to react.
You make a solid point. I’ve had some very good ZB games, so it’s not that I’m saying zero bloom has to go because I’m getting my butt handed to me. Maybe it just comes down to personal preference. If only one kind existed, I’d be happy either way.
Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
And what’s the deal with so many people quitting out? It’s rare that I see true 4v4!
85% should get lowered down a peg. I’m talking 80-75%. On the other hand, even though I can say ZB was a fun experience. It just isn’t approachable to the new or casual players.
> Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
That is the skill gap showing for the first time. Lesser-skilled players can’t rely on luck and bloom to win DMR battles, so the better team is actually winning now.
The excuse of battles being “whoever shoots first” is BS. I have won battles where the other player gets the first shots in. You just have to show more skill than that player, and try to make his shots miss.
> You make a solid point. I’ve had some very good ZB games, so it’s not that I’m saying zero bloom has to go because I’m getting my butt handed to me. Maybe it just comes down to personal preference. If only one kind existed, I’d be happy either way.
>
> Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
>
> And what’s the deal with so many people quitting out? It’s rare that I see true 4v4!
No, I in no way didn’t mean to insult your skill. It mostly boils down to how fast gameplay you enjoy, I personally feel the zero bloom DMR be perfect for my style, any faster would start to be too fast.
What comes to the TU beta games, I think the lopsided score is only because of the way too loose skill restrictions. Reach has a tendency to make that kind of games. The score difference may also be a direct proof of increased skill gap because the bigger the skill gap, the bigger the difference between differently skilled players.
I should also admit that my point of view is terribly biased because I have not played even a single game of TU beta. I still know for a fact that bloom is always bloom, the randomness doesn’t disappear as long as the effect exists, it just becomes less noticeable.
Anyway, this depends largely on what style of gameplay you prefer. I completely understand your issue with zero bloom.
> The excuse of battles being “whoever shoots first” is BS. I have won battles where the other player gets the first shots in. You just have to show more skill than that player, and try to make his shots miss.
Very true. One time while I was playing a zero bloom custom, I actually managed to out DMR two players in arow, both while I was on no-shields first time in my entire Reach career. As you can probably guess the players weren’t from the best end of the spectrum, but the feat still was something that wouldn’t have been possible with bloom.
> > Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
>
> That is the skill gap showing for the first time. Lesser-skilled players can’t rely on luck and bloom to win DMR battles, so the better team is actually winning now.
>
> The excuse of battles being “whoever shoots first” is BS. I have won battles where the other player gets the first shots in. You just have to show more skill than that player, and try to make his shots miss.
So do you suppose that TrueSkill will eventually get the list sorted out for more even matches? It seems like my team is either totally dominating or is totally asleep at the wheel.
If TrueSkill is putting these matches together based on Reach’s assessment of how good each player is, then that really shows you how uneven Reach’s game mechanics have made things!
> > > Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
> >
> > That is the skill gap showing for the first time. Lesser-skilled players can’t rely on luck and bloom to win DMR battles, so the better team is actually winning now.
> >
> > The excuse of battles being “whoever shoots first” is BS. I have won battles where the other player gets the first shots in. You just have to show more skill than that player, and try to make his shots miss.
>
> So do you suppose that TrueSkill will eventually get the list sorted out for more even matches? It seems like my team is either totally dominating or is totally asleep at the wheel.
>
> If TrueSkill is putting these matches together based on Reach’s assessment of how good each player is, then that really shows you how uneven Reach’s game mechanics have made things!
Assuming how well(lolno) Reach’s TrueSkill works, and that I haven’t had a game with the losing team going over 30 kills; I’d say that matchmaking is worse than ever, or that the skill gap is showing.
> > You make a solid point. I’ve had some very good ZB games, so it’s not that I’m saying zero bloom has to go because I’m getting my butt handed to me. Maybe it just comes down to personal preference. If only one kind existed, I’d be happy either way.
> >
> > Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
> >
> > And what’s the deal with so many people quitting out? It’s rare that I see true 4v4!
>
> No, I in no way didn’t mean to insult your skill. It mostly boils down to how fast gameplay you enjoy, I personally feel the zero bloom DMR be perfect for my style, any faster would start to be too fast.
>
> What comes to the TU beta games, I think the lopsided score is only because of the way too loose skill restrictions. Reach has a tendency to make that kind of games. The score difference may also be a direct proof of increased skill gap because the bigger the skill gap, the bigger the difference between differently skilled players.
>
> I should also admit that my point of view is terribly biased because I have not played even a single game of TU beta. I still know for a fact that bloom is always bloom, the randomness doesn’t disappear as long as the effect exists, it just becomes less noticeable.
>
> Anyway, this depends largely on what style of gameplay you prefer. I completely understand your issue with zero bloom.
No insult taken? : )
You should try it out. I was kind of taken aback by how much of a difference the 15% bloom reduction is. You can crank on the magnum and DMR at close and medium range, and it slows things down just enough at longer ranges so you have to be methodical, which was really the point of bloom anyway, right?
> > > Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
> >
> > That is the skill gap showing for the first time. Lesser-skilled players can’t rely on luck and bloom to win DMR battles, so the better team is actually winning now.
> >
> > The excuse of battles being “whoever shoots first” is BS. I have won battles where the other player gets the first shots in. You just have to show more skill than that player, and try to make his shots miss.
>
> So do you suppose that TrueSkill will eventually get the list sorted out for more even matches? It seems like my team is either totally dominating or is totally asleep at the wheel.
>
> If TrueSkill is putting these matches together based on Reach’s assessment of how good each player is, then that really shows you how uneven Reach’s game mechanics have made things!
Actually, the problem might more or less stay like that. Trueskill in Reach matches players very loosely in every playlist except Arena. The games may even out to closer levels, but it may be good to not to expect a lot of games that end 50-48 or nothing like that.
My friend actually tried to get me to try it, but I was too busy at playing BF3 beta then. Also to my understanding, the playlist still includes armor abilities that are kind of a minus from my point of view, especially when it comes to Jetpack and Armor Lock. Those are basically the things stopping me from going there.
I probably won’t try it until near the release of CEA as I’ll probably be busy playing Forza 4 until then. Let’s just say that I will try it when I find the right kind of mood. That means I have to be in really good mood to actually go. Although, I probably need to go there at least for few games for quick judgement.
> >
>
> My friend actually tried to get me to try it, but I was too busy at playing BF3 beta then. Also to my understanding, the playlist still includes armor abilities that are kind of a minus from my point of view, especially when it comes to Jetpack and Armor Lock. Those are basically the things stopping me from going there.
>
> I probably won’t try it until near the release of CEA as I’ll probably be busy playing Forza 4 until then. Let’s just say that I will try it when I find the right kind of mood. That means I have to be in really good mood to actually go. Although, I probably need to go there at least for few games for quick judgement.
At least in ZB, Jetpackers are lit up instantly, and AL isn’t as much of a nuisance anymore.
It’s a well known fact that zero bloom does not work well with default reach settings at all. This has been evident since they released the custom gametype 2 weeks ago. Try ZBS with 120% movement speed, 125% jump height, 150-200% (whichever you prefer) gravity, no AAs, 110% damage and damage resistance, and 50% melee damage in a custom game with some friends.
> > > > Have you noticed that the TU beta games often end up horribly lopsided? The final score is always like 50 to 15.
> > >
> > > That is the skill gap showing for the first time. Lesser-skilled players can’t rely on luck and bloom to win DMR battles, so the better team is actually winning now.
> > >
> > > The excuse of battles being “whoever shoots first” is BS. I have won battles where the other player gets the first shots in. You just have to show more skill than that player, and try to make his shots miss.
> >
> > So do you suppose that TrueSkill will eventually get the list sorted out for more even matches? It seems like my team is either totally dominating or is totally asleep at the wheel.
> >
> > If TrueSkill is putting these matches together based on Reach’s assessment of how good each player is, then that really shows you how uneven Reach’s game mechanics have made things!
>
> Actually, the problem might more or less stay like that. Trueskill in Reach matches players very loosely in every playlist except Arena. The games may even out to closer levels, but it may be good to not to expect a lot of games that end 50-48 or nothing like that.
As loose as it may be, in Vanilla Slayer games wouldn’t often end in seriously getting steak-ed. If the losing team loses by 20 or more points it just seems excessive and not fun. If it was supposed to be so common they wouldn’t have a Steaktacular medal!
> > >
> >
> > My friend actually tried to get me to try it, but I was too busy at playing BF3 beta then. Also to my understanding, the playlist still includes armor abilities that are kind of a minus from my point of view, especially when it comes to Jetpack and Armor Lock. Those are basically the things stopping me from going there.
> >
> > I probably won’t try it until near the release of CEA as I’ll probably be busy playing Forza 4 until then. Let’s just say that I will try it when I find the right kind of mood. That means I have to be in really good mood to actually go. Although, I probably need to go there at least for few games for quick judgement.
>
> At least in ZB, Jetpackers are lit up instantly, and AL isn’t as much of a nuisance anymore.
How strongly has the Armor Lock been nerfed anyways? I mean, we tried it in custom games with zero bloom settings and came to the conclusion that it either hadn’t been nerfed or it was nerfed very badly because it actually took the whole Sniper magazine before the Armor Lock ended.
Anyway, no matter how Armor Lock is nerfed, I’m completely against it’s inclusion in gameplay. Same applies to Jetpack even when I can imagine zero bloom DMR taking them down very quickly.
I’m actually so much against Armor Lock that I actually started completely boycotting the armor ability. You can imagine how boring the game becomes when you only play Snipers, BTB objective and Squad Slayer. Team Slayer was basically completely out of the question.
> As loose as it may be, in Vanilla Slayer games wouldn’t often end in seriously getting steak-ed. If the losing team loses by 20 or more points it just seems excessive and not fun. If it was supposed to be so common they wouldn’t have a Steaktacular medal!
Steaktaculars may not stay as common as they currently are, but I still think that it won’t get better by much. Steaktacular was in no way meant to be as common, the restrictions of TrueSkill were just implemented too loosely in Reach. I hope that 343i can do some work with those restrictions, it’s more fun for everyone to get even matches.
> > > >
> > >
> > > My friend actually tried to get me to try it, but I was too busy at playing BF3 beta then. Also to my understanding, the playlist still includes armor abilities that are kind of a minus from my point of view, especially when it comes to Jetpack and Armor Lock. Those are basically the things stopping me from going there.
> > >
> > > I probably won’t try it until near the release of CEA as I’ll probably be busy playing Forza 4 until then. Let’s just say that I will try it when I find the right kind of mood. That means I have to be in really good mood to actually go. Although, I probably need to go there at least for few games for quick judgement.
> >
> > At least in ZB, Jetpackers are lit up instantly, and AL isn’t as much of a nuisance anymore.
>
> How strongly has the Armor Lock been nerfed anyways? I mean, we tried it in custom games with zero bloom settings and came to the conclusion that it either hadn’t been nerfed or it was nerfed very badly because it actually took the whole Sniper magazine before the Armor Lock ended.
Only explosions and I think the Sword actually drain the meter. There is no more frosting, and sticking an ALer right before he locks is just fantastic. I think the EMP effect was toned down, too. I’m not 100% on that, though.
The title shouldn’t be DMR bloom vs BR spread, it should be DMR vs BR bloom.
The H3BR fires 3 consecutive bullets per burst that are encircled within an invisible blooming reticle that causes the 2nd and 3rd bullets per burst to fire randomly in increasingly larger areas.
The bullet magnetism of the BR help to negate the blooming-spread of the BR when red reticle and just slightly outside of red reticle range, but at long range, only the first bullet per burst was ever true.
That way, a BR can kill in 12 perfect shots on long range.
I prefer the DMR’s ability to fire the perfect amount of shots if I slow down my firing compared to much shorter range fights.
Even with pre-TU bloom, I prefer the mechanics of the DMR. I can control its randomness. I can’t control the H3BR’s.
> 85% should get lowered down a peg. I’m talking 80-75%. On the other hand, even though I can say ZB was a fun experience. It just isn’t approachable to the new or casual players.
Not to mention a three shot rifle is also forgiving in the wrong times also…someone can swipe the cross hairs across a head for a finishing shot, or in SWAT which is all headshots. Also not hitscan which is bad. Really, a burst spread rifle on non hitscan is stupid.
The DMR, single shot, hit scan, and bloom is just like the spread of the BR but controllable. It’s great.
> Only explosions and I think the Sword actually drain the meter. There is no more frosting, and sticking an ALer right before he locks is just fantastic. I think the EMP effect was toned down, too. I’m not 100% on that, though.
That’s the problem. We figured out with my friend that a tolerable solution would be to force the Armor Lock user out after one grenade at their feet or one Sniper bullet. Rocket should have enough damage to kill the Armor Lock user when there was less than 2/3 of the meter left. The EMP effect should be completely gone and so should the vehicle killing ability.
Note that this is only a solution that my friend would have been fine with. Me… I could never tolerate Armor Lock no matter what the tweaks were.
Speaking of Sword, I also remembered that I heard from my friend who played the TU beta that the sword block wasn’t exactly removed, but made so that now every time a sword block happens, both players die. Is this true or was it just a misconception on my friend’s part?