So back with Reach and H4 bloom was set up to do a couple of things, one is simulate recoil on hit scan weapons and 2 simulate the lack of stability a weapon has when on the run or during rapid movements. Many players didn’t like this because it seemed more of randomness and too reliant on bullet magnetism than being able to line up shots. So I was thinking of an alternative that isn’t exactly weapon shack but does curb the bunny-hop and gun gameplay in most shooters a bit.
So displacement works like this, if standing still then the reticle will be center of screen as normal however movements will move the reticle off center depending on what type of movement and intensity, in a manner that can be controlled but mostly through reflexes and precision and doesn’t exactly make for jumpy-shooty or 360 no-scopes to be a common trend.
Movement/Actions that will displace the reticle downwards
looking down - jumping - drawing/swaping a shoulder carried weapon - moving/running forward - after melee attacks of certain weapons (i.e. Rocker Launcher) - after reloading of certain weapons (i.e. grenade launcher)Movement/Actions that will displace the reticle upwards
looking up - falling down (even after a jump) - weapons over heating - moving backwards - after melee attacks of certain weapons (i.e. battle rifle) - after reload animations of certain weapons (i.e pistol)Movement/Actions that will displace the reticle to the left
looking/turning left - strafing right - passenger seat on the left side of the vehicle when moving forward - after melee attacks of certain weapons (i.e. needler) - after reloading animation of certain weapons (i.e. Brute shot)Movement/Actions that will displace the reticle to the right
looking/turning right - strafing left - passenger side of the right side of a vehicle moving forward - after melee attacks of certain weapons (i.e. plasma pistol) - after reload animation of certain weapons (i.e. SMG) Conditions that would reduce displacement
crouching - slower movement (no movement puts displacement at 0%) - zooming in (scope)Conditions that would increase displacement
passenger in a moving vehicle (no movement is still 0% even when turning) - running or fast movement - falling or jumpingWell that is one idea to replace the bloom mechanic, the only alternative is to go back to all projectile weapons but that could lead to net code issues especially with the infamous bullet eater bug.
As far as I recall, Bloom in Reach (not present in Halo 4) was implemented as an attempt to increase the required skill in gunplay, not to curb specific gamestyles.
Then, what exactly is the issue with “bunny-hop gunplay”, as it apparently needs “curbing”?
PS: I doubt projectiles would be much of an issue as knowledge and tech in networking has improved since Halo 3.
> 2533274888477235;3:
> we could always just get rid of bloom
that’s kind of the point
but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
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> > 2533274888477235;3:
> > we could always just get rid of bloom
>
> that’s kind of the point
> but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
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> > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> >
> > that’s kind of the point
> > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
>
> the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
> 2666640315087182;6:
> > 2533274888477235;5:
> > > 2666640315087182;4:
> > > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> > >
> > > that’s kind of the point
> > > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
> >
> > the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
>
> yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
I don’t have on rose tinted goggles. Despite all the problems you’re claiming halo 3 to have with projectiles and inconsistency it was obviously not that bad at all considering it was the most popular halo game to date
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> > > 2533274888477235;5:
> > > > 2666640315087182;4:
> > > > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> > > >
> > > > that’s kind of the point
> > > > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
> > >
> > > the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
> >
> > yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
>
> I don’t have on rose tinted goggles. Despite all the problems you’re claiming halo 3 to have with projectiles and inconsistency it was obviously not that bad at all considering it was the most popular halo game to date
H3 doesn’t need you to defend it, but seriously that was like over a decade ago.
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> > > > 2533274888477235;5:
> > > > > 2666640315087182;4:
> > > > > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > > > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> > > > >
> > > > > that’s kind of the point
> > > > > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
> > > >
> > > > the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
> > >
> > > yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
> >
> > I don’t have on rose tinted goggles. Despite all the problems you’re claiming halo 3 to have with projectiles and inconsistency it was obviously not that bad at all considering it was the most popular halo game to date
>
> H3 doesn’t need you to defend it, but seriously that was like over a decade ago.
All im saying is ever since reach when halos mechanics started to get tampered with, huge decline followed. This includes bloom (even though its not as damaging as sprint or SA’s)
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> > 2533274888477235;3:
> > we could always just get rid of bloom
>
> that’s kind of the point
> but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
That’d depend on the desired gameplay.
There are some games which does not use any accuracy reduction for the weapons, and have been popular despite that. Quake and Unreal for instance.
It’s kind of where you want the emphasis on avoiding hostile fire, and aiming, using your weapons.
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> > 2533274888477235;5:
> > > 2666640315087182;4:
> > > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> > >
> > > that’s kind of the point
> > > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
> >
> > the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
>
> yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
Yeah, the bullet eating issue was there, but as you yourself said, that was a decade ago.
Reach could easily have sported projectiles across the board and an improved net-code, reducing that specific issue.
Apex Legends for instance use projectiles and bullet drop.
> 2666640315087182;1:
> So I was thinking of an alternative that isn’t exactly weapon shack but does curb the bunny-hop and gun gameplay in most shooters a bit.
What is “bunny-hop and gun gameplay” and why does it need curbing? I can only think of one thing that applies to Halo, but that doesn’t need any curbing.
With that said, what you’re suggesting seems like a terrible idea for a variety of reasons. First of all, it discourages strafing and all kinds of movement during combat, which forms the core of Halo’s gunplay. If you don’t like that, then you’re playing the wrong game.
But if we play along, what you’re suggesting seems like a fairly poor implementation of a mechanic. By what rationale should your gun start pointing donwards when you move forwards, or likewise upwards when you move backwards? This has no grounding in intuition and is therefore an immediate turn off for many players. Mechanics need to make some intuitive sense for a player to accept them. Beyond that, how weak are your Spartan’s hands when they can’t even hold a weapon straight when moving sideways? Now, I’m usually not one to go for the immersion “we’re super soldiers” argument, but since this suggestion doesn’t make much sense from a gameplay point of view either, I have to ask why can’t a super soldier point their gun straight when moving sideways, or while sitting in the passenger seat of a vehicle? Did they perhaps get distracted by a bird flying in the opposite direction?
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> > > > 2666640315087182;4:
> > > > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> > > >
> > > > that’s kind of the point
> > > > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
> > >
> > > the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
> >
> > yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
>
> I don’t have on rose tinted goggles. Despite all the problems you’re claiming halo 3 to have with projectiles and inconsistency it was obviously not that bad at all considering it was the most popular halo game to date
H3 was the best halo game but it wasnt because bloom was not there, it was because the maps were incredible, and pace of play was perfect.
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> > 2533274888477235;7:
> > > 2666640315087182;6:
> > > > 2533274888477235;5:
> > > > > 2666640315087182;4:
> > > > > > 2533274888477235;3:
> > > > > > we could always just get rid of bloom
> > > > >
> > > > > that’s kind of the point
> > > > > but then again if you don’t replace it with something else you end up with a different problem. For more information look up some YouTube videos on FPS hacks that remove Cone of Fire and Recoil, weapon shake and the likes.
> > > >
> > > > the previous halos 1-3 didn’t have bloom and it there weren’t any problems
> > >
> > > yes because H3 had all projectiles. Bloom was there because the moved many weapons like the rifles from projectile weapons to hitscan weapons. And taking your rose tinted goggles off H3 did have problems the aforementioned bullet eating bug that would literally turn your shots into bullet-less blanks if some other inanimate object was moving. Not the most noticeable problem but it was there.
> >
> > I don’t have on rose tinted goggles. Despite all the problems you’re claiming halo 3 to have with projectiles and inconsistency it was obviously not that bad at all considering it was the most popular halo game to date
>
> H3 was the best halo game but it wasnt because bloom was not there, it was because the maps were incredible, and pace of play was perfect.
im not saying h3 was god solely because of no bloom. I’m just saying consistency/accuracy i.e.) no bloom was a staple in the successful halo formula and changing it was one of many things that were done for the worst
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> > I think H5 gunplay is fine, don’t need to complicate it in my opinion.
>
> way too much bullet magnetism. missing shots in halo 5 is pretty much non existent because the bullet magnetism is so high
True that can definitely go down, aim assist too. But as far as recoil/bloom related stuff I think it’s fine.
That’s a workable idea but I’m not sure I’d like it very much. I think that nowadays, pure aim is more desirable. What I mean by that is people, especially on PC don’t like gimmicks on aim. They like their crosshair being constant, and the bullet placement being perfectly predictable, going exactly where the crosshair indicates. The first thing that comes to mind is Overwatch, where, lets say you’re playing a hitscan hero like McCree. His bullet will travel exactly in the middle of the screen at all times, no matter what crosshair you choose. This consistency I think is essential to an arena shooter game like Halo.
Though I am happy fans like you are coming up with ideas on how to evolve the aim mechanics of Halo. I think people only focus on movement, but I think the aim mechanics of Halo can change for the better and it will be much better received than changes to movement.
> 2533274888477235;14:
> > 2533275031939856;13:
> > I think H5 gunplay is fine, don’t need to complicate it in my opinion.
>
> way too much bullet magnetism. missing shots in halo 5 is pretty much non existent because the bullet magnetism is so high
Really? Go play a match or two and let me know how consistently you guys notch over 50% accuracy, because this is completely false.
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> > 2533274888477235;14:
> > > 2533275031939856;13:
> > > I think H5 gunplay is fine, don’t need to complicate it in my opinion.
> >
> > way too much bullet magnetism. missing shots in halo 5 is pretty much non existent because the bullet magnetism is so high
>
> Really? Go play a match or two and let me know how consistently you guys notch over 50% accuracy, because this is completely false.
its really not man. halo 5 having a crazy amount of bullet magnetism is a gripe shared by me and numerous others. then again its best to just try and forget halo 5
I can see the PC release of Reach being dominated by DMR because of the combination of hitscan + M/K. But I don’t see in the bloom a solution either, it adds too much randomness which is never something to look forward to in any competitive environment. So yeah, I understand your concerns, but bloom or even your idea aren’t too appealing to me. Your solution would make movement options punishing just to balance the overall gunplay, which is not ideal considering what people expect from the Halo gameplay experience.
I’m sure they’re looking into this issue to avoid long ranged, hitscan weapons to be too dominant in every scenario since the game will be coming on PC as well. Maybe spray and recoil patterns like CS:GO? I’d be fine with that. As long as it’s not rng and is controllable it just adds depth to the gameplay, which is good.