Discuss Halo stories returning to "simplicity"

Community Halo Universe
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From the IGN article about Bonnie Ross’ talk at the D.I.C.E. 2017:

“She also discussed the studio’s approach to storytelling going forward, saying, “while we love our transmedia, sometimes I do think we tell a little bit too much story in our games.” So, with future Halo titles, Ross said 343 plans to keep the game stories simpler and use transmedia to tell the deeper narratives.”

This, along with the news that 343 will re-introduce split-screen in FPS Halo titles, is good news to me, even if I doubt I will return to Halo after how far the series has alienated me after the end of Halo 3. In this statement, “transmedia” is referring to all of the movies, shorts, novels, short stories, and graphic novels that have been created over the years. While they do add a lot to the lore, lately it has for me been feeling like a roadblock that needs to be overcome in order to understand the story. Some examples include literature and media that explain the Didact, Jul 'Mdama, Blue Team’s survival of Reach, the introduction of the S-IVs, and many other such characters and events that exist in the main title games but have no real explanation in the games themselves. This left me lost when I played Halo 4 and watched the cinematic cut-scenes of Halo 5 (I did that first since I wasn’t necessarily going to buy Halo 5).

I have been a Halo fan since 2001. I have loved Halo CE, Halo 2, and Halo 3, but didn’t feel like I had to read the novels to understand their stories. Halo 4 wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be when I eventually played it - it had great ideas. I especially loved the sub-plots of Cortana’s rampancy and the “man or machine” question posed to the Master Chief. But I had no prior knowledge of the Infinity, so I didn’t understand what was the big deal about it. I never knew Forerunners still existed, since the original trilogy gave the impression that they all died in a vain attempt to stop the Flood. So the Didact’s existence in Halo 4 as a monologuing super-villain was incredibly jarring. And those “great ideas” posed in Halo 4 were sidelined or completely dropped in Halo 5.

Even though I doubt I will ever willingly purchase another Halo game in the future, I sincerely hope that this statement by Ross today means that the main title sequels will ease up on the heavy reliance on transmedia, as she calls it, and be able to stand on their own; that the comics and novels and movies that are created from here on out can also stand on their own, and exist to give true die-hard fans more stories of the Halo universe without alienating the more casual players who only focus on the main, numbered games. The games and the “transmedia” did seem to exist in harmony back in the Bungie days, with some materials made under 343 being truly standalone stories that don’t immediately impact the main story. But the bulk of 343’s materials have been so intertwined with the new saga that you can’t play the games without having to reference a book or comic in order to know who someone is. This is the one instance where I truly can say that I would rather it be like the Bungie days. Let’s hope that this means die-hards and casuals alike can all understand future stories like we used to. Don’t appease to one to sacrifice the other. All Halo fans are in this together.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Now I would like to hear yours.

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Excellent points and it’s a tricky slope.

On the one hand I certainly don’t want them to “dumb down” the quality of the storytelling; Halo’s EU is what makes it special and different. But, on the other, yes they need to be doing a better job of not putting MAJOR plot points in EU material and then failing to expose them sufficiently (or at all) in the games.

The most perfect example of all of the above, as you already cited, is their handling of the Didact. The Didact is an AWESOME character full of ACTUAL subtlety and nuance ™, we spend 3 whole books building him up (recruiting a Hugo and Nebula award winning author to do so) as the primary new antagonist of the galaxy, and then in his first game, we… explain virtually none of his backstory*, none of the casual gamers understand who the hell he is, and so they understandably regard him as nothing more than generic space villain #517254123948 as far as they’re concerned. They then complain they hated Halo 4’s story while Halo 5 is in development, 343 overreacts to that criticism, and that’s how we ended up where we are.

I don’t think simpler, more contained stories in the games is a bad thing, as Bonnie said today. But the casuals need to be caught up enough in game to have a fighting chance of understanding what’s going on. TRUe REDEMPTI0N is always saying in here this is why we need a Codex, and I wholeheartedly agree. The Haloverse has just gotten too damn big to not have one.

  • I don’t feel the Halo 4 terminals did enough in this regard, but even if they did, there were more than a few people who didn’t have the Waypoint app on their 360 and never saw them anyway.
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you pretty much nailed it ukilledyapflip. i enjoy having the EU having an affect on the in-games stories as i read/watch all of it, but those things arent properly explained in-game alienating alot of others. a codex could go a long way in resolving that issue, because i will say now i’m a little worried the story will be dumbed down and i really hope thats not the case.

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> 2533274961806222;2:
> > Excellent points and it’s a tricky slope.
> >
> > On the one hand I certainly don’t want them to “dumb down” the quality of the storytelling; Halo’s EU is what makes it special and different. But, on the other, yes they need to be doing a better job of not putting MAJOR plot points in EU material and then failing to expose them sufficiently (or at all) in the games.
>
> 100% agreed. I may not be a fan of all of it, but I also would hate to see the EU be limited. It’s the extent of how much it affects the main games that matters to me, as you understand.
>
>
>
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> > The most perfect example of all of the above, as you already cited, is their handling of the Didact. The Didact is an AWESOME character full of ACTUAL subtlety and nuance ™, we spend 3 whole books building him up (recruiting a Hugo and Nebula award winning author to do so) as the primary new antagonist of the galaxy, and then in his first game, we… explain virtually none of his backstory*, none of the casual gamers understand who the hell he is, and so they understandably regard him as nothing more than generic space villain #517254123948 as far as they’re concerned. They then complain they hated Halo 4’s story while Halo 5 is in development, 343 overreacts to that criticism, and that’s how we ended up where we are.
>
> I did end up reading the Forerunner trilogy after I (finally) got to buying and playing Halo 4. And I could tell that he had a lot of promise. But going from his state in Silentium to how he’s portrayed in Halo 4 became even more jarring after all of that. I understand that the Cryptum can mess with people’s heads, and he had an encounter with the Gravemind, but he just came off as a completely different character in H4, with zero depth. It was bad enough when I saw him in the game without context; it was even worse when I finally got the context from all three novels.
>
>
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> > I don’t think simpler, more contained stories in the games is a bad thing, as Bonnie said today. But the casuals need to be caught up enough in game to have a fighting chance of understanding what’s going on. TRUe REDEMPTI0N is always saying in here this is why we need a Codex, and I wholeheartedly agree. The Haloverse has just gotten too damn big to not have one.
>
> Agreed on this as well. I never played the original Mass Effect, but the codex in ME2 helped a lot. In addition, the voice-over of the text helped even more since a lot of the articles were very long and dense! Like listening to an audiobook. This would be one good and lore-friendly step towards helping to bridge the gap. They even could be implemented as terminals, if ever those return to the games.
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>
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> > * I don’t feel the Halo 4 terminals did enough in this regard, but even if they did, there were more than a few people who didn’t have the Waypoint app on their 360 and never saw them anyway.
>
> Yep! When I finally bought Halo 4 (used for $4), the Xbox 360 app no longer functioned. So every terminal I unlocked was unviewable. And I was not about to resort to going onto YouTube to watch them, when they should have been in the game in the first place. Now, with owning the MCC for XB1, I will finally be able to view them as I find them. I still need to beat Halo 2 and 3 on it, however…

Yes, I tried to break your post into multiple chunks, and…that’s how the weird formatting came about. :confused:

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> 2533274961806222;2:
> I don’t think simpler, more contained stories in the games is a bad thing, as Bonnie said today. But the casuals need to be caught up enough in game to have a fighting chance of understanding what’s going on. TRUe REDEMPTI0N is always saying in here this is why we need a Codex, and I wholeheartedly agree. The Haloverse has just gotten too damn big to not have one.

Pretty much this. I really liked that Halo Wars 2 features Phoenix Log and i hoped it stays in future Halo games

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I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.

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> 2533274974033696;6:
> I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.

For me, it wasn’t so much that the story itself made no sense (it did make sense), it was the fact that it was introducing characters and ideas that originally had been introduced in outside media, and were implemented in the story itself without a good explanation. For people who don’t pay attention to the “transmedia”, the belief would be that all Forerunners are dead. So the Didact being alive and the Librarian speaking via hologram would contradict everything told or not told, directly or indirectly, in previous games. The Infinity also would not have been known about, so its importance in the lore would be unknown.

Compare the decisions made in Halo 4 to Halo 2, for example. Nothing went over my head, but I also wasn’t having my hand held. The way that details about the Covenant were introduced in the game’s cutscenes felt natural. I watched the first cutscene and just knew that what was going on was important, and that the Prophets were the leaders of the Covenant - without being told. Everything felt like it was something I was learning about for the first time in the saga. But then I watch the prologue to Halo 4…and I wonder where Halsey is, who is she talking to, and why she is being interrogated at all. I have zero knowledge as to why she’s captured in the first place. It feels like it comes out of nowhere with no context at all. Same with the Master Chief’s new armor. But Cortana’s rampancy is something that is introduced skillfully, as it’s something that even the Master Chief is learning about for the first time.

I’m hoping that my explanation of what I’m referring to makes sense?

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> 2533274887950450;7:
> the belief would be that all Forerunners are dead. So the Didact being alive and the Librarian speaking via hologram would contradict everything told or not told, directly or indirectly, in previous games. The Infinity also would not have been known about, so its importance in the lore would be unknown.

So? That’s the point of the big reveal: “Oh, not all Forerunners are dead like we thought! This is a big surprise!” Did the Infinity appear in previous novels at all? I thought it was brand new to Halo 4, with it’s only required explanation being the vague statements Cortana mentioned about it.

> 2533274887950450;7:
> Compare the decisions made in Halo 4 to Halo 2, for example. Nothing went over my head, but I also wasn’t having my hand held. The way that details about the Covenant were introduced in the game’s cutscenes felt natural. I watched the first cutscene and just knew that what was going on was important, and that the Prophets were the leaders of the Covenant - without being told. Everything felt like it was something I was learning about for the first time in the saga. But then I watch the prologue to Halo 4…and I wonder where Halsey is, who is she talking to, and why she is being interrogated at all. I have zero knowledge as to why she’s captured in the first place. It feels like it comes out of nowhere with no context at all. Same with the Master Chief’s new armor. But Cortana’s rampancy is something that is introduced skillfully, as it’s something that even the Master Chief is learning about for the first time.

It makes a little bit of sense, but I still don’t completely understand it. From the cutscene, it’s easily learned that Halsey created the Spartans from children, and she’s being interrogated because of the morality of it as well as plans to do that again. The Master Chief’s armor, is unfortunately a simple redesign that only has off-handed lore explanation.

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> 2533274974033696;6:
> I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.

I agree. I played halo 4 before ever reading the forerunner trilogy. I actually had no interest in reading those books either until the didact showed up in halo 4 which made me curious about his back story. And I consider that trilogy the best of the halo books other than the original Eric Nylund trilogy.

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> 2533274974033696;6:
> I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.

Hence why I feel Halo 4’s problems were less the transmedia’s fault and just 343’s execution. Hell, the corruption of the Didact’s mind by the Gravemind would have been huge to reveal (and upon reflection a neat parallel with Cortana who managed to resist the Gravemind’s corrupting influence).

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> 2533274812652989;10:
> > 2533274974033696;6:
> > I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.
>
> Hence why I feel Halo 4’s problems were less the transmedia’s fault and just 343’s execution. Hell, the corruption of the Didact’s mind by the Gravemind would have been huge to reveal (and upon reflection a neat parallel with Cortana who managed to resist the Gravemind’s corrupting influence).

Halo 4 is amazing, don’t you dare!!!

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> 2533274840469109;11:
> > 2533274812652989;10:
> > > 2533274974033696;6:
> > > I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.
> >
> > Hence why I feel Halo 4’s problems were less the transmedia’s fault and just 343’s execution. Hell, the corruption of the Didact’s mind by the Gravemind would have been huge to reveal (and upon reflection a neat parallel with Cortana who managed to resist the Gravemind’s corrupting influence).
>
> Halo 4 is amazing, don’t you dare!!!

I’m not saying Halo 4 was bad, but what stumbling blocks it had were more to do with 343’s storytelling rather than the fault of transmedia incorporation.

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> 2533274812652989;12:
> > 2533274840469109;11:
> > > 2533274812652989;10:
> > > > 2533274974033696;6:
> > > > I never understood the confusion with Halo 4. I hadn’t read the Forerunner novels, and pretty much avoided all post-2009 extended universe content. (and I was 12 at the time, if that means anything) Halo 4’s story didn’t confuse me AT ALL, even BEFORE I watched the terminals. With Halo 5, well, there wasn’t anything TO understand, there.
> > >
> > > Hence why I feel Halo 4’s problems were less the transmedia’s fault and just 343’s execution. Hell, the corruption of the Didact’s mind by the Gravemind would have been huge to reveal (and upon reflection a neat parallel with Cortana who managed to resist the Gravemind’s corrupting influence).
> >
> > Halo 4 is amazing, don’t you dare!!!
>
> I’m not saying Halo 4 was bad, but what stumbling blocks it had were more to do with 343’s storytelling rather than the fault of transmedia incorporation.

I think Halo 4 had an incredible story. The Didact was barely in it which was a mistake. But the core of the story is John and Cortana’s relationship and it’s done brilliantly.

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This “we want backstory for every character in the game” is not vary productive and is a time waster when developing the game story. What is important is, do those characters have an effect on the story overall and what are there motivation. Example, Didact hated humanity and the Prophet of Truth wanted to become a God. If you wanted more explanation and backstory, ask yourself, “is it really necessary to advance the game plot”. Now in Halo 5, Cortana motivations where just not there and Locke’s motivation was he was told to hunt the Master Chief for no real reason. So simplicity in game story is not the problem, it is the relevance of every aspect in story telling.

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Lets be honest halo 5 was not a lore heavy game, a very simple story tbh just a mess.

Halo 4 could be called a complex game, but even for average gamers it delivered a great story in my opinion.

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How about instead of dumbing down the story they actually go out of their way to explain it. Sometimes the problem is a lack of dialogue leaves you guessing, why not have a primer series for how blue team survived like they use to do with halo lore on waypoint? It could even be in the game as optional videos to get people interested and understanding the characters.
Dumbing down the plot leads any big revelation that has been building up over the lore to never pay off because the games barely hint at the idea, halo games’ story have always failed to actually explain things properly, their best attempt was halo 2 but after that got lambasted for being too complex they went back to a simpler story. This for me though h3’s campaign was great, h2 was far more interesting.
I just wish simpler doesn’t lead to ruining interesting ideas brought up in other media, such as grey team? What if they joined up with the other spartans? That’ll be cool, but if people don’t know about them that will restrict them coming back. I want intersting stories that link all the media together but clear enough casual fans can understand but maybe not fully interpret all that it means for halo, and as i have said this can be done with primer videos like the ones of yester year, or even with better exposition in game, i dont mind an5 minute cutscene of characters talking, i live for that!