Different player models in Halo 5.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Hey, this is something i can’t fully express because some of the communities i’m not really apart of but i understand how they feel with their favorite playable character models not being playable.

I for one love the elites and everything about them and many people hate the elites and would do whatever it takes to ensure they never comeback into the player controlled world and just leave them as alien monsters when they are more than that.

343i went for a very understandable angle with Halo 4 SIV’s on how you were your spartan and all but many people who didn’t like Spartan IV’s just couldn’t get into that.

Halo has to big of a universe to only be limited to a single player model or specific unit in MP such as only Spartan II-IV or Elites only over Brutes and ODST. So why not include the ones the fans want the most and fit them in the game somehow.

Now, i’m sure some people are ready for full on rage about ranked games and all but if 343i goes along this Infinity path still wouldn’t your rage just be hurting other people and not helping you just leaving nothing but negatives. Also, if Ranked does return then lets have a good old compromise.

While I believe that differences species with different sizes should be in MP because this is a game about fighting crazy alien monsters many just see that as blasphemy.

In Ranked why not just make it so that everyone has the same hitboxes and are brought to a reasonable height. Such as ODST linked players instead of being 5’11 would be sized to 7,2 and brute players would be sized from 8,5 to 7,2 as well and have the same normal hitboxes but people can still keep their favorite unit in battle if they really want too.

While in Social games, they could have entire separate game types based on mixed species combat. Elites vs Brutes, Human vs Forerunner to get crazy Flood vs Universe. These would make form great combat and even greater Machinima. IT would also allow 343i to go crazy with their game types and maps as well instead of having one of the most spoke of issues with Halo 4, which is terrible map design.

Instead of only being limited to Forerunner and Human, they could make, Flood maps,human-forerunner mixed maps, Human-Covenant mixed maps and even brute maps. This keeps each map fresh and not at all with a stale look.

Truth be told Halo 4 just has too many suits o f armor. If 343i cut down on all the armor suits they could use that time to implement these features into Halo. Since i believe H2A is coming out this year (because this is the only year they can do it) 343i could give it a try for that games MP. If people don’t like it then the idea would be scrapped or if you guys don’t like it here then it wouldn’t ever even have to be made at all. If you do their might just be a chance yet.

Many people have said it before the Halo Universe is just too big to have the story follow one pace, so why not add more species in MP and ODST. There won’t be a real gameplay difference but just to let those fans know that 343i hasn’t forgotten and abandoned you. I know for sure bringing the elites back would put many elite fans on 343i’s side and without them i’m just going act like HAVOC Squad and leave before it gets even worse like my friends before me.

P.S. Just saying after months of this side of the forums being up I’ve only seen one thread that has had an actually 343i employee comment on it. Maybe i just missed the others when i was gone but i still believe this forum was just made so that 343i could keep everyone from the hate and vent their heat here, ignoring it and doing their own thing.

2

If Infinity Slayer makes a comeback, I fully support them implementing as many species as they want. The gametype is so chaotic and random that players playing as different species of drastically different sizes (eg. humans, elites, brutes, jackals, etc.) wouldn’t really make much of a difference skill-wise anyway. :stuck_out_tongue: Perhaps different loadouts could be set for the species to balance them out?

However, if Halo returns to classic gameplay (sadly it seems unlikely at this point), Spartans and Elites only, please.

3

I really like the sound of your ideas. And that would also provide a great opportunity to implement new game modes. I hope something like this is put intoo Halo 5 it would be so awesome!

4

I am sympathetic to having Elite and other player models in multiplayer but just throwing them into multiplayer doesn’t really do them justice.

You are right that we the Halo universe is so much more than just spartans, but that does not mean that we have to throw everything into ‘one’ game.

The fact is we have had 1 full and proper, non-spartan spin-off with Halo Wars. Spartan Assault is still spartan based and ODST is still based of the core series gameplay.

The original series was very symmetrical in nature, both teams started off the same and introducing other models has had mixed results. In Halo 2/3 Elites were little more than Spartans with awkward character models while in Reach Elites were relegated to niche gametypes.

You can make an interesting Halo game with all sorts of playable races, but when that is all said and done that game won’t play like the ‘Halo’ many people love.

This is exactly the scenario that spin-offs used for. I for one would LOVE to see a large scale asymmetrical Halo game with using most of the races. Class based UNSC vs Caste based Covenant on large maps with lots of vehicles should be amazing, but it would not replace the ‘symmetrical’ original series.

TL;DR I wouldn’t mind seeing Elites return as long as they were kept in a niche gametypes such as Invasion/Dominion/Elite Slayer, but any more than that I can’t really get behind (in the core series).

5

While they should be in MM with their real sizes, you have to understand that the Elites are monsters. Just like us.

6

A bunch of playable species in matchmaking is an idea I’ve been bouncing around in my head for awhile, and I definitely support it. I just don’t think throwing them all into the main game is a good idea. Some changes to how matchmaking and its playlists are organized would be needed first.

Eventually I’ll get around to posting my ideal Halo 5, and my version of this will be in there somewhere.

7

I’m all for it Delko Elite, you have my support. Not only should these different species have different looks and heights and the like, but have different inherent properties in-game. Spartans are quick and nimble and a smaller target. Elites are faster sprinters and strong hardy fighters. This sort of thing. Whatcha think Delko?

8

> I’m all for it Delko Elite, you have my support. Not only should these different species have different looks and heights and the like, but have different inherent properties in-game. Spartans are quick and nimble and a smaller target. Elites are faster sprinters and strong hardy fighters. This sort of thing. Whatcha think Delko?

Just like in Reach. It makes for a good balance but awkward forge maps at times. Still it would change the pace a bit but i feel it would be better if species differences were a setting.

I.E. Everyone being the same height to what you stated.

9

> Not only should these different species have different looks and heights and the like, but have different inherent properties in-game. Spartans are quick and nimble and a smaller target. Elites are faster sprinters and strong hardy fighters. This sort of thing. Whatcha think Delko?

Theoretically all these ideas you are coming up with may sound cool, but do you really think this would work out practically?

The scenario would be that everyone chooses to be the smallest target.

10

> > Not only should these different species have different looks and heights and the like, but have different inherent properties in-game. Spartans are quick and nimble and a smaller target. Elites are faster sprinters and strong hardy fighters. This sort of thing. Whatcha think Delko?
>
> Theoretically all these ideas you are coming up with may sound cool, but do you really think this would work out practically?
>
> The scenario would be that everyone chooses to be the smallest target.

Ah yes, the Oddjob Problem.

I’d rather everything have the same (or similar) height (hunched over Elites, Brutes on the shorter side, etc.) than varying heights, unless of course Invasion is implemented again.

I’d also rather just wear ODST armor on my Spartan rather than pick a 7’2’’ tall ODST. :stuck_out_tongue:

11

> If Infinity Slayer makes a comeback, I fully support them implementing as many species as they want. The gametype is so chaotic and random that players playing as <mark>different species of drastically different sizes</mark> (eg. humans, elites, brutes, jackals, etc.) <mark>wouldn’t really make much of a difference</mark> skill-wise anyway. :stuck_out_tongue: Perhaps different loadouts could be set for the species to balance them out?
>
> However, if Halo returns to classic gameplay (sadly it seems unlikely at this point), Spartans and Elites only, please.

Here comes the problem:
Grunts using snipers? Skinny Jackals using Rocket Launchers?
3 meter tall Brutes vs 2.10m tall Spartans? What would Hunters hold? Same for Drones…
Species would limit weapon control.

Only gametype I am accepting such a thing in is Invasion. Invasion was a great concept, but a very flawed executions. Apart from more dynamic (and a wider set of) goals I believe it could actually be more fun to play if you had ODST’s and Spartans vs Elites and Brutes for instance. Each with their own pre-set loadouts (ODST’s and Brutes having jumppacks for instance as an AA)

In regular Matchmaking I am all in for the return of Elites in the same way it was done in H3. With the custimization of H4 of course (or preferably going further). But I don’t really think Brutes for instance have a place there. They’re just too massive, even compared to Elites. Esspecially if 343i would bring back Brutes as they’re intended in the books and comics. AKA: Giants the size of Hunters.

12

I’m ok with multiple player models with differing stats as long as the stats differ only slightly, no more than what we saw in Reach, in fact probably less since that didn’t really work out in the long run.

I’d be pleased to see a revised version Reach’s Elites that would be playable in standard game modes like 4v4, BTB, Objective etc. I know there’s gonna be those that want identical player models in the standard settings but I’m pro-load outs too so sue me. Balanced and equal weapons and player models are what I’d like to see but identical starts aren’t essential in my book.

And I’ve gotta say that I agree with Ka Five regarding the ODSTs. For all we know by Halo 5 the ODSTs have been completely absorbed by the SIVs so playing as an SIV wearing ODST armor would probably be the real deal anyway. And how would balancing an ODST work anyway? You’d have to make them completely inferior to the SIVs in order for it to make any kind of sense. And the customization would probably be identical to the SIVs which would be pretty lame IMO.

Brutes and some kind of Forerunner/Promethean might work but 343 will have to be careful. They’ve already got an idea of how the Elites should be based on what they learnt from Reach but with these models they’ll be starting from scratch.

But with models like Grunt, Jackals, Drones etc is a big no. It’d be the same problem that occurs with bringing ODSTs into the mix. I just can’t imagine it having any kind of balance.

And I’ve also gotta say that if 343 does this it’s gonna be important for them to put measures in place to fix problems that may arise. Being able to update and re-balance each player model will be just as important as updating and re-balance weapons. This is something that I really wish Bungie did in Reach.

Anyways I’m all for it overall.

13

> If Infinity Slayer makes a comeback, I fully support them implementing as many species as they want. The gametype is so chaotic and random that players playing as different species of drastically different sizes (eg. humans, elites, brutes, jackals, etc.) wouldn’t really make much of a difference skill-wise anyway. :stuck_out_tongue: Perhaps different loadouts could be set for the species to balance them out?
>
> However, if Halo returns to classic gameplay (sadly it seems unlikely at this point), Spartans and Elites only, please.

If Infinity (anything) comes back it should only be in Action sack, or customs. That game type is a good reason so many people stopped playing to begin with. I hope Infinity never shows its head ever again. I don’t hate Halo 4, I just can’t stand the randomness, and all the Jet Packers, and camo campers.

Sorry, I went of a bit of rant but I just don’t like Infinity game settings.

Anyways OP, I have never been a big fan of Elites in matchmaking. However I do realize that there are a lot of people out there that do. If 343 can balance out Hit boxes than I am all for it. It would mean a ton to the machinima community to have the option of Elites, Forerunners, Brutes, and Spartans available to them.

14

> > > Not only should these different species have different looks and heights and the like, but have different inherent properties in-game. Spartans are quick and nimble and a smaller target. Elites are faster sprinters and strong hardy fighters. This sort of thing. Whatcha think Delko?
> >
> > Theoretically all these ideas you are coming up with may sound cool, but do you really think this would work out practically?
> >
> > The scenario would be that everyone chooses to be the smallest target.
>
> Ah yes, <mark>the Oddjob Problem.</mark>
>
> I’d rather everything have the same (or similar) height (hunched over Elites, Brutes on the shorter side, etc.) than varying heights, unless of course Invasion is implemented again.
>
> I’d also rather just wear ODST armor on my Spartan rather than pick a 7’2’’ tall ODST. :stuck_out_tongue:

OK thought the whole Oddjob that was BS does a thresh such as that even exist in a modern FPS. From and ODST to a Brute i don’t think the sizes would be that to of a change where people are heart stricken and forever deem the game as hazardous.

Besides like we said above, smaller targets would be faster and mor e nimble but bigger target would be more durable. So ODST would basically only have Armor and no health regen but very nimble for their size giving them a fair chance/

15

> > If Infinity Slayer makes a comeback, I fully support them implementing as many species as they want. The gametype is so chaotic and random that players playing as <mark>different species of drastically different sizes</mark> (eg. humans, elites, brutes, jackals, etc.) <mark>wouldn’t really make much of a difference</mark> skill-wise anyway. :stuck_out_tongue: Perhaps different loadouts could be set for the species to balance them out?
> >
> > However, if Halo returns to classic gameplay (sadly it seems unlikely at this point), Spartans and Elites only, please.
>
> <mark>Here comes the problem:</mark>
> <mark>Grunts using snipers? Skinny Jackals using Rocket Launchers?</mark>
> <mark>3 meter tall Brutes vs 2.10m tall Spartans? What would Hunters hold? Same for Drones…</mark>
> <mark>Species would limit weapon control.</mark>
>
> Only gametype I am accepting such a thing in is Invasion. Invasion was a great concept, but a very flawed executions. Apart from more dynamic (and a wider set of) goals I believe it could actually be more fun to play if you had ODST’s and Spartans vs Elites and Brutes for instance. Each with their own pre-set loadouts (ODST’s and Brutes having jumppacks for instance as an AA)
>
> In regular Matchmaking I am all in for the return of Elites in the same way it was done in H3. With the custimization of H4 of course (or preferably going further). But I don’t really think Brutes for instance have a place there. They’re just too massive, even compared to Elites. Esspecially if 343i would bring back Brutes as they’re intended in the books and comics. AKA: Giants the size of Hunters.

There are a couple of things wrong with just such as jackals and grunts are only small to Spartans compared to a normal humans jackals are the same size and grunts are just a few inches shorter than us. I wouldn’t be surprised to have them playable but i’m never considered the grunts because it would be awkward for them to hole all the weapon types like an Energy Sword or Gravity Hammer.

I did however think of Skirmishers replacing ODST because ODST aren’t faster than spartans so the nimble thing doesn’t exactly work. I put ODST because having a smaller, non-shield based human unit running across the battlefield could make for some good Machinama. I alos choose ODST of Skirmishers because i’m sure fans love them more and would rather see them.

Also Hunters this was another species that i never spoke of and i don’t really have anything to say on it besides why are you using species that i didn’t say should be put into the MP.

I only spoke of Elites, Brutes, Spartans II-IV and ODST for reasons stated above. Yet again ODST don’t have to be there because a Spartan III could be under their role. Its just for the trooper boys and like said above by a commenter which i agree. Some people would just rather play with their ODST armor.

The rest of your post i just nodded my head to in agreement on most of it until we came to the brutes size. Remember there would be a base size and alien abilities settings like i sated in the OP. When turned on Elites will be how they were in Halo 2 and brutes will be brought to a more balanced size. Each Species not having any abilities over the other.

Same speed, strength, size but different looks. In ranked games unless 343i has an Elites vs Elites ranked or Brutes vs Brutes ranked the features above will always be on. IN Social depending on the game mode they will be off.

16

> I’m ok with multiple player models with differing stats as long as the stats differ only slightly, no more than what we saw in Reach, in fact probably less since that didn’t really work out in the long run.
>
> I’d be pleased to see a revised version Reach’s Elites that would be playable in standard game modes like 4v4, BTB, Objective etc. I know there’s gonna be those that want identical player models in the standard settings but I’m pro-load outs too so sue me. Balanced and equal weapons and player models are what I’d like to see but identical starts aren’t essential in my book.
>
> And I’ve gotta say that I agree with Ka Five regarding the ODSTs. For all we know by Halo 5 the ODSTs have been completely absorbed by the SIVs so playing as an SIV wearing ODST armor would probably be the real deal anyway. And how would balancing an ODST work anyway? You’d have to make them completely inferior to the SIVs in order for it to make any kind of sense. And the customization would probably be identical to the SIVs which would be pretty lame IMO.
>
> Brutes and some kind of Forerunner/Promethean might work but 343 will have to be careful. They’ve already got an idea of how the Elites should be based on what they learnt from Reach but with these models they’ll be starting from scratch.
>
> But with models like Grunt, Jackals, Drones etc is a big no. It’d be the same problem that occurs with bringing ODSTs into the mix. I just can’t imagine it having any kind of balance.
>
> And I’ve also gotta say that if 343 does this it’s gonna be important for them to put measures in place to fix problems that may arise. Being able to update and re-balance each player model will be just as important as updating and re-balance weapons. This is something that I really wish Bungie did in Reach.
>
> Anyways I’m all for it overall.

I’ve discussed the whole ODST transformation thing a bit and i’m still fuzzy on it.

ODST would be smaller and more nimble targets. Instead of replying on shields they would reply on armor and slowly regenerating health. Armor would be very weak but their speed makes up for it. Of course since i’ve already posted how i really feel on the ODST matter i would rather just have Skirmishers or Spartan III’s take the role because they bot h can do it better.

Also ODST aren’t completely inferior to S IV’s. Like in Initiation, Palmer’s squad was taken down by average marines. They might of been unarmored but giving them their armor and facing ODST they still have a big chance of losing. Far larger than any other Spartan Group unless you count the I’s.

What you say about the Brutes and Forerunner/Promethean unit is true. They would be new player modes they 343i would have to take a risk with. Just like every dev does when making a new game.

Yet again where are people getting these grunts, jackals and drones from. Not until my last post did i even mention them in this thread. Did i unknowingly type them out in my OP if so I’m sorry. I truly am.

Thanks for your support and yes it would take some balancing. I would be okay with seeing only Elites and Spartans in Halo 5 but along hte road 343i try to make other species work too.

17

The only time I’d for this is if they are all equally sized, equally shaped humanoids. Even then you could accomplish this through armor options (see ODST armor in Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4…)

If you give an elite spartan hitboxes, or vice versa, it’s just going to be misleading and feel forced. Why am I getting headshots shooting the elite’s neck? Why do the bullets go through its face? Why are elites suddenly tiny in multiplayer?

18

> The only time I’d for this is if they are all equally sized, equally shaped humanoids. Even then you could accomplish this through armor options (see ODST armor in Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4…)
>
> <mark>If you give an elite spartan hitboxes, or vice versa, it’s just going to be misleading and feel forced. Why am I getting headshots shooting the elite’s neck? Why do the bullets go through its face? Why are elites suddenly tiny in multiplayer?</mark>

In GOW when the Kantus was smaller so he could fit into the niche i don’t think anyone was complaining about it. The Kantus was also one of the most favorited skins as well.

Also i like to believe that people aren’t just little kids looking for the next thing to complain about instead of just taking a few seconds to think about it. Also if the elites are human sized through out the whole game than lore wise it would be a FUBAR.

19

> Also i like to believe that people aren’t just little kids looking for the next thing to complain about instead of just taking a few seconds to think about it.

I’m 20, I’ve given it significant thought, and I’ve seen the complaints in Halo 3. Regardless if the hitboxes were actually different or not they felt different because they didn’t match the model and were thus misleading.

Sure, I know from experience the hitbox is going to be a foot behind the elite’s head. I can still see how it can throw people off.

> Also if the elites are human sized through out the whole game than lore wise it would be a FUBAR.

It’s going to be strange seeing tall elites in campaign then going to multiplayer and seeing short ones. The same logic applies.

20

The only way I think a multi-race thing would work in Halo is if it was it’s own gametype, and I’m still not sure if it being PvP or PvE.

For a PvE gametype, it could be like firefight. A Covenant Firefight mode could allow you to play with multiple races, but it would probably be more of a class based game mode. Another thing that I think would make more sense is something like Gears of War 3’s Beast Mode, where players could start out as weaker tiered Covenant units against Human forces, and the more points you score can unlock higher tier units that allow you to wreck shop easier.

For a PvP gametype, I would imagine it would be more like a class-based game, with players on either side limited mostly to the weapons in their loadout. It would be different from much of Halo’s gameplay, but so it throwing all the races together. Might be similar to the Overrun mode in Gears of War: Judgement as a reference.