Yeah, they’ve got traits in common, but I’d hardly say the fill the same role. The Brute Shot was incredible against vehicles (knockback), but I doubt anyone is really trying to use a Ravager against a hog, at least not as their first option. And the Plasma Caster can deny access to areas, but only for a brief second. The Ravager alt-fire lasts much longer per shot. Honestly, The Caster is closer to the Sticky Det. in terms of how it denies area (delayed explosion).
And if we’re really talking about guns that fill the role of the Reach Grenade Launcher then the Cindershot should be at the top of the list.
All this to say, the Grenade Launcher weapon class is extremely diverse and I don’t think Halo should settle with just 1-2 guns.
Most guns in the game do reasonable damage against vehicle (that’s why driving them stinks), but that’s not the point I’m making. I’m talking about the practical use of the gun.
If a hog is, say, carrying a flag carrier, they’re not gonna stick around for you to land 4 bursts on them. And doing that would be difficult anyways since it fires in bursts and the shots arc and require leading shots.
The brute shot is a direct fire gun with splash damage and any shot you land makes the next easier because of the knock back damage throwing the hog off course.
Except they didn’t. If you paced your shots the beam rifle was essentially bottomless clip, Scattershot is perfect for clearing out corners with it’s riccochet, and the surpressor has a lock-on.
You clearly don’t pay attention. And yes the variants DO count they are PART of the sandbox and are usable in Forge, Custom games, Arena, Warzone, AND firefight. Take the L, your argument has failed.
A huge distinction between the beam rifle and the Sniper is vehicle damage as well.
The beam rifle was a hyper anti-infantry sniper, because as you indicated, you can basically fire it non stop if you know what you’re doing. But it’s beams literally bounced off vehicles.
The sniper required reloads, but shredded vehicles quickly and easily.
H5 did this well where some weapons were pretty similar, but still had distinct enough purpose and ranges to have different use cases.
I usually assume people who say “H5’s weapons all feel the same” are just attaching to internet talking points stated by people who have no idea what they’re talking about because they didn’t play H5 longer than a week. That statement is just a blatant lie to any of us who played a lot of H5 lol
Facts. Hey if you’re ever interested in some super fiesta customs on H5, hit me up. I learn the ins and outs of every weapon in Halo 5 through super fiesta so maybe we could talk shop some time just compare notes or something.
Yeah, usually the “Redundancy Argument” brings up obvious stuff like the AR and SMG or the Storm Rifle and Plasma Rifle. Of course those guns are redundant, the were literally brought in to replace one or the other in earlier games.
A quality of nearly all plasma weapons. It was and still is functionally incredibly similar. And there’s still far more difference between the Shock rifle & S7 than there is between the beam rifle and sniper.
So the Heatwave is just a better realised and more unique version of it? Thank you. Even still the gap between the shotgun and scatter isn’t nearly as great as the bulldog and heatwave. Especially considering how limited the range was on the scatter by comparison.
So does the pulse carbine. Yet again, which set of comparisons are actually further apart? Yes, the pulse isn’t as useful but hopefully that is amended come the update.
No they don’t count lol. The sandbox was balanced around the normal weapons. Not all the variations, designed as power ups.
Therefore THAT is the sandbox.
That’s why the variants are in warzone & fiesta not ranked or BTB. Frankly Infinites variants are actually in the main game (BTB caves) by comparison.
I believe some variants did start entering 4v4 (including ranked) as time went on.
The advanced suppressor, silenced AR, silenced pistol, advanced sword, and recon DMR were all included in 4v4 arena as time went on. I believe there were others too but I can’t remember for sure.
It’s hard to have a genuine conversation comparing sandboxes if one party just refuses to acknowledge 80% of one sandbox good sir .
Rather than dismissing H5’s incredible diversity of weapons and vehicles, we should all be kinda sad about the volume of content that was thrown in the garbage for Infinite.
Unfair to compare a game with about 3 years of constant updates later to a game that basically has it’s launch sandbox.
What entered anything at the twilight of the Games lifespan isn’t really relevant.
And yet, we are discussing how weapons feel individuality and in terms of balancing and design - the variations of weapons present in warzone are not part of the conversation in terms of balance.
So when discussing which sandbox is better, you have to think of what the Games sandbox was actually balanced around.
Warzone was a super casual unbalanced chaotic clusterfeck. Hardly relevant. Fun, like Fiesta - but not relevant to discussing the health of a sandbox.
Especially when considering Halo’s core game modes of 4v4 & BTB. Sidenote; So glad Warzone isn’t back.
Most of Halo 5’s downloadable content was added during its first year, and, to your point, Infinite is basically still at launch content.
It’s strange you mention this to refute that weapon variants appear on Halo 5 arena maps. Where exactly does it correlate that timeframes matter to whether they were included or not?
This is a reaching from a reach. Balance is fully dependent on how a map designer designs the map. When you consider the fact that over 90% of REQ variants are effectively power weapons, you place them accordingly. A Blood of Suban is not exactly as potent as a SPNKR Prime, but it shouldn’t be treated like it were a regular Carbine.
The notion of “sandbox balance” is kind of redundant when the map designers have full control over what weapons a player is allowed to use on their map. This wouldn’t carry water if, for example, every weapon including their variants are available on a singular map, or the player is able to choose what they like via a loadout system, but this just isn’t the case. If a particular weapon, regardless of whether it’s a standard weapon or a variant, is selectively placed based on its potency, and it happens to push the bands of what the map designer wants, it won’t be used, or it will be used sparringly.
The magic of Halo 5’s sandbox is that 343i undertook maintenance to address outliers.
In essence, treat variants like power weapons, which are meant to be overpowered on purpose.
And every facet of Infinite is just gushing with quality, no? Sandbox included?
Did they even add the Bandit yet? Or more than four maps?
I just need the Reach Grenade Launcher and Covenant Carbine in Infinite to make it my favorite Halo weapon sandbox. I think a bunch of changes need to happen in terms of balancing, and there should be a few cosmetic changes here and there as well. Like I don’t like how opaque the Plasma effects are, and they totally lack the gassy/electrical effect they’ve had in literally every other Halo title.
Both sandboxes need(ed) work. I think H5 succeeds in the ultimate goal of making guns fun to have and use. Super Fiesta was popular for a reason. Basically any gun you spawned with could actually get a kill or even find success in unfavorable match ups. That’s is to say, I never felt like a chump for spawning with a trash loadout.
Infinite, on the other hand, has better design for its sandbox. Weapons are design to fill special roles. Unfortunately, that comes at the cost of making some weapons feel unfun or just not function properly. Look at the Plasma Pistol. I lost one of its most defining features because of the introduction of the Shock class weapons. Because for some reason EMP can’t be shared between the guns.
Halo Infinite is still young, so it has time to fix its shortcomings.
That’s a kind offer, but I don’t usually have a ton of game time in a week, so I typically just try and do in depth weapon experiments during games where my team is dominating and there’s not much chance at losing losing lol
Scattershot/shotgun: 1:is hitscan and has consistent damage because of this fact. The other can be richchochetted to hit long distance and has rapid fire.
Plasma rifle and SMG: one is a CQC weapon meant for close range damage but takes a little longer to destroy shields. The other strips shields really fast and is more suited for switching to your other weapon to finish your opponent or quick melee.
Sniper rifle and beam rifle: one has long shot so missing the head could be controversial, one is basically quick fire sniper.
All in all a slight difference is all that’s necessary. Niche weapons aren’t fun in my eyes since usually that weapon just won’t get used often. Outside of BTB disrupter is flat out useless, PP doesn’t emp and hitting someone with it is hard unless in CQC.
I’m kind of baffled that people love HI’s sandbox for Ranked. It’s legit 95% BR. Virtually nobody picks up Commando (like, maybe one in 5 matches you get someone using it) or Sidekick (which only spawns on Aquarius anyway), nobody -ever- uses disruptor except to cheese on people, AR use is rare and still usually loses or trades to a BR. Only guns I ever saw people pick up are needler (fun), scatter/bulldog (fun although hit-reg on scatter can be frustrating), PP for OS or n00b, and the pulse carbine. Depending on your views, Mangler is unbalanced enough not to be used (insert Wufty tirade), although I like it in the sandbox. I can’t do a thing with the shock rifle but it’s a fun addition too–but with one spawn in one map, it’s hardly very sandbox relevant. Same with the skewer, which is basically a binary rifle with ballistics.
I bet if you mapped H5 kills by weapon and HI’s kills by weapon, H5 would be WAY more diverse. Magnum was obviously first but I’m not sure how people are saying DMR/BR/Carbine/LR are copies when they all have unique attributes and all functioned as upgrades (well, except the BR post-nerf) for your spawn precision weapon… unlike HI which gives you by far the most versatile (and probably overall best) gun from spawn. People used Brute Plasma rifle, SMG, and Storm Rifle routinely. Quasi-power weapons like shotgun, scatter, and Hydra were fun and added a dimension to map control beyond power weapons and powerups.
To each their own, but let’s face it, Ranked is basically the BR show.
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