Did Tartarus know the truth?

I’m curious if Tartarus knew the truth that the Halos need a Human to activate. He brought Miranda and Johnson and demanded Miranda put the Index into the control panel. I wonder if Truth and Mercy let him in on the secret, if not why would he suspect a Human was needed to “send them to paradise”?

The brutes in 3 didn’t seem to question it either.

Random guess with like no basis, since humans were viewed as evil entities, its possible Truth told them they had to consecrate the evil as part of the ceremony to prove their faith. For example truth openly talks about us being ‘left behind’ by the forerunners during halo 3, so its likely he just came up with some random religious ceremonial excuse.

Tartarus’ reactions in both H2 and H2A seemed to think like he was thinking over Spark’s words before he decided to stick with his faith.

Tartarus was more loyal to the Covenant government than he was to the religion. So long as he obeyed orders and got his Brutes a better place in the hierarchy, he really didn’t care all that much.

When Guilty Spark told The Arbiter and him about Halo’s true purpose, he went along with the plan anyway, so that just shows he really doesn’t care.

I think he doubted himself and had second thoughts, but then quickly re-assured himself that these were just the demon’s lies.

> 2535434588318471;4:
> I think he doubted himself and had second thoughts, but then quickly re-assured himself that these were just the demon’s lies.

That would have made sense, had the “Oracle” himself, not confirmed the Arbiter’s claims. I’d say he either didn’t care, or he simply put to much trust in Truth, like the others have said.

For a brief moment…Tartarus hesitated. I think, in his gut, he knew something was fishy. However, Tartarus, like many Brutes, had just tasted real power. They had command of the fleets, and they had what they desired most: power.

A culmination of things came into play:

-He didn’t want to show weakness by admitting that The Arbiter was right.
-He didn’t want to risk losing his species new power and influence.
-He wanted to fulfil his duty.

The lore says that Brutes were “rapid converts” but Tartarus was always the evidence to my claim that Brutes had little to no reverence for piety and religion…based on how he handled the religious aspects of his life. From tossing the “Holy Oracle” around…to shrugging his shoulders as Mercy was eaten by the flood. Tartarus cared very little about these things, as opposed to the Elites who showed indignation at the fact that Regret was killed, despite Truth dismissal of the seriousness of the matter.

In general…I think Tartarus knew about Humans being needed to activate rings. I think he just chose to ignore the why, in favor of the prospect of his Brutes moving up the ladder, so to speak. He didn’t care, as long as his species was rewarded.

> For a brief moment…Tartarus hesitated. I think, in his gut, he knew something was fishy. However, Tartarus, like many Brutes, had just tasted real power. They had command of the fleets, and they had what they desired most: power

> Added to this, they seemed to have an unfilled hunger for some theological meaning, and they quickly adopted the worship of the Great Ones and set out upon the Path to the Great Journey.

-Broken Circle excerpt on the Jiralhanae’s addition to the Covenant

> -He wanted to fulfil his duty

That was the reason, unless Tartarus gets a backstory which doesn’t fit his actions (Mendez) I see no reason to even think he understood what was truly going on.
.

> The lore says that Brutes were “rapid converts” but Tartarus was always the evidence to my claim that Brutes had little to no reverence for piety and religion

And the lore is right, they were searching for meaning and that was provided by the Covenant. At this point, I think it should go without saying that not every member of a race feels a certain way. “Heels of a Fuss” showed that there were two main Jiralhanae factions, one which seeks to regain their own supremacy and sees the Covenant as irrational stupid, the other being what we see most and described by the excerpt.

> based on how he handled the religious aspects of his life. From tossing the “Holy Oracle” around…to shrugging his shoulders as Mercy

Just because he doesn’t worship every speck of Forerunner metal doesn’t me he lacks faith. Everyone thinks differently and will have their own expression of faith. Tartarus expressed that by blindly following whatever Truth gave as Truth was god incarnate.

> to shrugging his shoulders as Mercy was eaten by the flood

Because Truth is who he follows and listens to. Truth wanted Mercy dead so Tartarus allowed that,what is the deal here?

> Tartarus cared very little about these things, as opposed to the Elites who showed indignation at the fact that Regret was killed,

The irony of this entire post is Truth usage of Jiralhanae due to their blind faith while Truth himself in Halo 3 comments how the Sangheili never believed.

Aside from that, The Sangehili were rightfully pissed that Regret’s death was being blamed on them while it was Truth who ordered their forces back. Halo 2 has a cinematic showing this and Broken Circle further elaborates.

@MedicantBias

On the contrary…The Covenant, by principle, had great reverence for all things Forerunner. That was engrained in their faith. From the rings, to the the constructs. A word like Oracle denotes a degree of importance. They used the word “Sacred” to describe a great many things.

Despit that, Tartarus, at the very least, had demonstrated very little reverence for anything Forerunner. I don’t deny that he was loyal to Truth…however…I doubt he saw Truth as a God. There is nothing, as far as I know, which implied Tartarus thought Truth was a God. Again…he was loyal to Truth as a head of state…nothing more.

Also…The Brutes had a religion prior to The Covenant. The only reason they accepted The Covenant religion was because they were defeated in conquest. Like I said…they were rapid converts…but not in the way they should have been. Brutes, as a species, lack piety and reverence to their faith. Again…seen by the way Brutes handle “sacred” items (tossing about Oracles, slamming sacred icons on control panels). These are not the actions of people who value religion. The Brutes were ambitious, and that ambition was more important than faith.

FYI…Regrets death was the fault of The Elites. They failed to protect him.

> On the contrary…The Covenant, by principle, had great reverence for all things Forerunner. That was engrained in their faith. From the rings, to the the constructs. A word like Oracle denotes a degree of importance. They used the word “Sacred” to describe a great many things.
> Despit that, Tartarus, at the very least, had demonstrated very little reverence for anything Forerunner…

Probably because the Jiralhanae haven’t spent several hundred or thousand years within the Covenant to develop that faith. I can’t understand why you think they would all magically believe this religion after just joining the Covenant, not logical.

San 'Shyuum and Sangheili evolved on planets brimming with Forerunner relics, that is why their faith would be so strong. No other known race in canon had a plethora of Forerunner relics on their world or grew to revere whatever tech was present. Why aren’t you trying to hammer the Lekgolo and Kig-Yar for their lack of faith despite being in the Covenant for several hundred years? Drones see the San 'Shyuum as queens,Unngoy just follow orders,Lekgolo eat Forerunner tech, and Engineers were made to care about Forerunner structures.

The only two races to truly care were San 'Shyuum and Sangheili.

> The only reason they accepted The Covenant religion was because they were defeated in conquest

So we are just going to ignore official canonical statements to push our own,okay.

> Brutes, as a species, lack piety and reverence to their faith

Yet your shining example is Tartarus despite the handful of other Jiralhanae that believed,okay.

> Again…seen by the way Brutes handle “sacred” items (tossing about Oracles, slamming sacred icons on control panels).

Because the significance of these items is going to be understood by them after 30 years,okay. I am surprised they even pilot ships.

> The Brutes were ambitious, and that ambition was more important than faith.

More sourcing of these comments and less self-explanation please.

> FYI…Regrets death was the fault of The Elites. They failed to protect him.

I’ll just keep re-posting this

@MEdicantBias

I am surprised that you are able to handle a mouse and keyboard.

Where do I begin tearing you apart?

> MedicantBias:
>
> Probably because the Jiralhanae haven’t spent several hundred or thousand years within the Covenant to develop that faith. I can’t understand why you think they would all magically believe this religion after just joining the Covenant, not logical.San 'Shyuum and Sangheili evolved on planets brimming with Forerunner relics, that is why their faith would be so strong. No other known race in canon had a plethora of Forerunner relics on their world or grew to revere whatever tech was present. Why aren’t you trying to hammer the Lekgolo and Kig-Yar for their lack of faith despite being in the Covenant for several hundred years? Drones see the San 'Shyuum as queens,Unngoy just follow orders,Lekgolo eat Forerunner tech, and Engineers were made to care about Forerunner structures.The only two races to truly care were San 'Shyuum and Sangheili.

The use of the word “probably” invalidates this entire block, as you are trying to pass speculation as fact. I can get you on that alone, but I will humor you. By your own statements, you have just proven that time has no bearing on how a species will perceive a religion. Not sure if that was your intent. However, despite that you cannot argue that the only reasons Brutes showed a total disrespect for Forerunner technology was because of their limited time in The Covenant, as it simply does not hold given the evidence at hand, that is, your own admissions in the above quote. Like you said, after several hundred years in The Covenant, The Grunts, Drones, and Lekgolo still cared very little, to not at all, about Forerunner tech.

Furthermore, The Hunters, when first discovered, were, indeed, eating Forerunner tech, but after their adoption, they were re-purposed as exploratory servants, to better research Forerunner technology. In fact, I believe it was the Lekgolo who more fully explored the Forerunner dreadnaught.

> Halopedia:
>
> Individual Lekgolo worms, specifically conditioned not to ingest Forerunner alloys, were employed by the ascetic priests studying the Forerunner Dreadnought in High Charity.

Point is - Brutes didn’t care about the sanctity of Forerunner tech, not because of their limited time in The Covenant, but because they simply don’t care about such things to begin with. This is NOT to say that they are not loyal to the Prophets and the Covenant on a political level, but it is to say that the details of the Covenant religion held less value than the political gains. It served their political interests to worship, but it was a means to an end. Brutes wanted power above all else.

> Halopedia:
>
> Upon the Jiralhanae’s inclusion into the Covenant, a group of Sangheili commanders went before the Covenant High Council and claimed that the Jiralhanae’s pack mentality would inevitably bring conflict between the two species. Citing the Jiralhanae’s natural instincts to fight to the top of any hierarchy

In other words…fight for power…control…dominance.

> MedicantBias:
>
> So we are just going to ignore official canonical statements to push our own,okay.

Wrong again.

> Halopedia:
>
> Although some Jiralhanae were quick to join the Covenant, such as those led by Chieftain Maccabeus, others put up a resistance against the invading alien hegemony. In their primitive state, they were quickly defeated and absorbed into the Covenant.

AND

> Prophet of Regret:
>
> “Most of those we encountered in our search were compelled to join our Union. To take part in a movement that promised freedom for allegiance, salvation for service!”

Like the other races, they were conquered. Conquest at the hands of the Covenant meant indoctrination into their religion. Again, I do not dispute that they sought to have some sort of theology in their lives, and I do not dispute that they would have accepted any theology, and that they did accept the Covenant’s theology, I am saying that their rapid conversion implies that they do not plant their feet when it comes to religion. Someone who places great value in their faith, and their religion, will plant their feet and refuse a change in theology. Again, this is why I maintain that THe Brutes value power in politics first, and religion second, with religion being the means to the end for the first.

> MedicantBIas:
>
> Because the significance of these items is going to be understood by them after 30 years,okay. I am surprised they even pilot ships.

> Halopedia:
>
> …by the time the Covenant discovered them in 2492…

My, my, my…wrong again. It is actually to 60 years (2492 - their year of discovery to 2552 - the year that Tartarus tried to activate Delta Halo). Learn your lore and learn to add and subtract.

> MedicanBias:
>
> More sourcing of these comments and less self-explanation please.

So, in relation to them being ambitious:

> Halopedia:
>
> Patricide is an common side effect of patriarchy, due to the ambition seeded within many Jiralhanae to rise to the top of a hierarchy.
>
> Tartarus, a Jiralhanae that participated in the Battle of Harvest and several other engagements, caught the eye of the Hierarch who was impressed that the Jiralhanae managed to take control of the entire Rh’tol skein at a young age.
>
> Upon the Jiralhanae’s inclusion into the Covenant, a group of Sangheili commanders went before the Covenant High Council and claimed that the Jiralhanae’s pack mentality would inevitably bring conflict between the two species. Citing the Jiralhanae’s natural instincts to fight to the top of any hierarchy, the Sangheili commanders proposed that any peaceful “urges” that the Jiralhanae exhibited should be “aggressively encouraged”. The High Council believed that the argument was fair, and begun to impose restrictions on the technology the Jiralhanae could access. Although this ruling was meant to curb the enmity between the Sangheili and Jiralhanae, a feud between the two species continued.

Is that enough sourcing on the matter? I can go further if you like.

Everything I have said has either been factual to the lore, or plausible assertions based on the facts that we have been given about The Jiralhanae.

And YES…YES…YES…The Elites FAILED to stop the Masterchief from killing Regret. The Elites were the ones responsible for his security, and the security failed to stop Masterchief. There is no interpretation here. The Elites FAILED…F-A-I-L-E-D…GRADE F…on the protection of Regret. It was THEIR FAULT that Regret died…F…for FAULT!

Learn your lore and check your facts, and come back when you actually know something that is of value to the OP.

The point of this thread was an open-ended question with no CLEAR answer. I have simply provided my reasoning for why I believed that Tartarus was aware of the Human necessity. I attempted to provide a plausible and critical insight into what MAY have been going on in Tartarus’ head and the reason for those things going through his head in the first place. @MedicanBias - you have provided nothing, short of arguing my points, and you did not help the OP find a suitable answer. EIther stay on track, or drop the matter. Frankly, I enjoy threads with this subject matter, and I would rather it not be locked because you want to digress.

He didn’t. And he went along even after the explanation of Spark because he didn’t really care what was going to happen if obeying was going to get him and his Brutes a better place in the Covenant. And I’m not sure but I thought that only Truth knew that the “Great Journey” was -Yoink-, keeping the truth from Mercy, Regret and the rest of the Covenant.

> 2533274800842897;6:
> For a brief moment…Tartarus hesitated. I think, in his gut, he knew something was fishy. However, Tartarus, like many Brutes, had just tasted real power. They had command of the fleets, and they had what they desired most: power.
>
> A culmination of things came into play:
>
> -He didn’t want to show weakness by admitting that The Arbiter was right.
> -He didn’t want to risk losing his species new power and influence.
> -He wanted to fulfil his duty.
>
> The lore says that Brutes were “rapid converts” but Tartarus was always the evidence to my claim that Brutes had little to no reverence for piety and religion…based on how he handled the religious aspects of his life. From tossing the “Holy Oracle” around…to shrugging his shoulders as Mercy was eaten by the flood. Tartarus cared very little about these things, as opposed to the Elites who showed indignation at the fact that Regret was killed, despite Truth dismissal of the seriousness of the matter.
>
> In general…I think Tartarus knew about Humans being needed to activate rings. I think he just chose to ignore the why, in favor of the prospect of his Brutes moving up the ladder, so to speak. He didn’t care, as long as his species was rewarded.

I didn’t want to quote your long rant of immature retorts of "fault fault fault…"on you being wrong still about that being the “elite’s fault.”

It’s proven in Broken Circle that it was Truth’s plan all along to get rid of the other 2 prophets, when it was convenient and for his uses. Medicant can just keep posting that 1 clip, it’s Truth’s fault and his plan all along. Of you don’t like that, go read the Broken Circle book.

Why wasn’t it the Brutes’ fault Mercy died right there by the flood? If we’re taking things at face value. Why not the jackels’ or Grunts’ that allowed Regret to die? I mean just saying, there’s no point in anything else, it will just be some long rant anyways.

Also to the OP, this guy I quoted and Medicant are both essentially correct in their own ways, there are some minor details that differ but to get the gist of it, Tartarus probably knew, and he saw Truth as both “his god” or diety and a powerful political figure, for himself to have power with the Brutes above elites. That’s all that mattered in Lehman terms.

> 2533274800842897;10:
> And YES…YES…YES…The Elites FAILED to stop the Masterchief from killing Regret. The Elites were the ones responsible for his security, and the security failed to stop Masterchief. There is no interpretation here. The Elites FAILED…F-A-I-L-E-D…GRADE F…on the protection of Regret. It was THEIR FAULT that Regret died…F…for FAULT!

Um, what are you? 5? Learn some maturity, we don’t need this kind of behaviour, on the forums. You’re certainly not impressing anybody with your incessant shouting.

How can you say that the Elites are solely responsible for Regret’s death? You say they were in charge of his security, but guess what? So were Grunts, Jackals, Drones, and Hunters. Why are you not blaming them, for lacking the means, to quell an obvious threat, effortlessly advancing towards them? Why are you not blaming Hunters, for failing to smash the Humans, despite being the greatest formidable force, in all of the Covenant?

Why are you not blaming Truth, for sending Regret to Earth, with a less than sizeable fleet, and deliberately declining to inform him that it was the Humans’ home world? Why are you not blaming Truth for calling back all Covie forces once he got wind of regret’s death, afterwards, thereby making it obvious that it was all a ploy from him, to gain absolute power to begin with? Do you, therefore, blame Tartarus for Mercy’s death, despite Truth very specifically ordering him to leave him? Sure you do, because why the double standards, right?

> Learn your lore and check your facts, and come back when you actually know something that is of value to the OP.

You do realise how facile it is, to tell someone like Mendicant to learn his lore, right? trust me, Mendicant is infinitely more knowledgeable about the lore, than you ever will be. He may make errors, sometimes, but everybody does. No one is immune to mistakes.

> Frankly, I enjoy threads with this subject matter, and I would rather it not be locked because you want to digress.

This thread was going perfectly fine, before you had your little rage fit! If there is any reason why this thread gets locked, its because of you.

Ya, agree with Warmer toast, noticed him a few times over here now. That other guy though, wow what a show. And Medicant the person/profile is a she, fyi. She stated in another thread, just so ya know toast.

But ya she is very knowledgeable like Cobra and the CIA whatever guy who makes his own videos on youtube.

On topic: Tart knew, I would bet my dog on it.

> 2533274800962187;14:
> Ya, agree with Warmer toast, noticed him a few times over here now. That other guy though, wow what a show. And Medicant the person/profile is a she, fyi. She stated in another thread, just so ya know toast.
>
> But ya she is very knowledgeable like Cobra and the CIA whatever guy who makes his own videos on youtube.
>
> On topic: Tart knew, I would bet my dog on it.

Wat? I MendicantBias is a guy. I know him from another community. But yeah, like you said, he and Cobra are very knowledgeable about the lore. Respectable members in the lore community for sure.

I had no idea what all of the raging was about. Really unnecessary. Maybe Mendicant had schooled him in a debate before, and he didn’t like it, so he vented it all out here? Who knows?

> The use of the word “probably” invalidates this entire block, as you are trying to pass speculation as fact.

Lets try again.

> Probably because the Jiralhanae haven’t spent several hundred or thousand years within the Covenant to develop that faith.

That entire line was brimming with sarcasm. Wouldn’t have been hard to notice if you were more focused on understanding than arguing,poorly at that.

> but I will humor you

It’s the reverse actually.

> By your own statements, you have just proven that time has no bearing on how a species will perceive a religion.

Time is a factor but only if those races were incline towards religion from the start.

Lekgolo are too advanced for it
Kig-Yar don’t need it
Unngoy as a whole are just trying to live off Bahalo and will do anything to continue such
Drones view San 'Shyuum as queens and are probably too advanced for religion as well.
The Jiralhanae were the only ones specifically mentioned to be looking for a faith.

> However, despite that you cannot argue that the only reasons Brutes (implying all of them)showed a total disrespect for Forerunner technology was because of their limited time in The Covenant

> Also…The Brutes had a religion prior to The Covenant. The only reason they accepted The Covenant religion was because they were defeated in conquest. Like I said…they were rapid converts…but not in the way they should have been. Brutes, as a species, lack piety and reverence to their faith. Again…seen by the way Brutes handle “sacred” items (tossing about Oracles, slamming sacred icons on control panels). These are not the actions of people who value religion. The Brutes were ambitious, and that ambition was more important than faith.

You keep talking about Brutes as a whole when the only example you use is

> For a brief moment…Tartarus hesitated. I think, in his gut, he knew something was fishy. However, Tartarus, like many Brutes, had just tasted real power. They had command of the fleets, and they had what they desired most: power.

You essentially take everything Tartarus has done and apply those actions as representation for all Jiralhanae. By that logic, all Humans are nefarious as Ackerson.
The reason your argument is nonexsistent is due to lacking support beyond Tartarus. A shining example is this

> the way Brutes handle “sacred” items (tossing about Oracles, slamming sacred icons on control panels).

Brutes didn’t do that, it was Tartarus himself.

> His brother, Maladus, had been leery when their pack had been folded into Parabum‘s. They were from two of the most divergent clans dating back as far as Jiralhanae history goes—ancient enemies. The two clans fought even before the great civil war that knocked the Jiralhanae from a space-faring species back to being bound to their planets, forced to rediscover the great advances their ancestors had made before them. They were able to coexist again rather peacefully once the Covenant brought the unifying words of the Great Journey, but their deep-seated distrust for one another slowly rose again . . . and knowing the history of that clan, they had strikingly different levels of devotion to the Covenant.
>
> Parabum‘s clan never fully believed in the power of the gods, nor did they worship the technology
> left behind. They feared, in fact, becoming too dependent on technology. Ceretus‘s clan was always the more intelligent, and their beliefs fell more in line with the San ‘Shyuum, believing with devout faith in the Great Journey and the gods that took it before them. Ceretus‘s clan was terribly ashamed of the civil war that forced the Jiralhanae to give up hundreds of years of progress, and they were at the forefront of rebuilding their scientific prowess when the San ‘Shyuum arrived. They were beyond grateful for the opportunity to take to the stars once again.
>
> Parabum‘s clan reviled it. It was their kind of thinking that robbed the Jiralhanae of their rightful place among the Covenant species; they used the artifacts in disrespectful ways, more opportunistic than holy. They believed only in muscle and tradition, in the strength of living without an overwhelming reliance on technology. It made them fierce warriors, Ceretus had to admit, reliant on their strength and loyalty to one another. But Ceretus and Maladus both knew from the start that Parabum was strong in body but weak in mind. He never kept any of his underlings in line, leaving them on their own, lazy and undisciplined. This was not the way to rule a pack. Ceretus knew you ruled through fear and manipulation, and faith in the gods. He could never respect Parabum‘s leadership.

So,using an actual source (Heels of a Fuss) and not my own headcanon I’ve shown that their are two main types of Jiralhanae. Which does Tartarus obviously fall in line with? Since my sarcasm wasn;t understood the first time I’ll say Parabum’s Clan.

> Point is - Brutes didn’t care about the sanctity of Forerunner tech, not because of their limited time in The Covenant, but because they simply don’t care about such things to begin with.

-Give a source showing a wide variety of Jiralhanae exemplifying this and not a single individual.

> Brutes wanted power above all else.

-Source a Jiralhanae conversation stating such

> In other words…fight for power…control…dominance.

That is a sheer lack of reading comprehension. The quote shows Jiralhanae mentality is going to demand they be in higher positions. You see this in Halo 2 and several novels. It isn’t power the Jiralhanae want rather to be acknowledged as a more suitable race than the Sangheili,which they are in terms of blind servitude.
Contact Harvest explains Jiralhanae mentality in great detail and I suggest you read it, as majority of your stance is nullified by its material alone.

MedicantBias:
So we are just going to ignore official canonical statements to push our own,okay.

> (You)Quote:
> Halopedia:

That isn’t official material btw. I am literally sourcing statements from the novels. You are just cherry picking statements from Halopedian without understanding their context or how you present them.

I am arguing that not every single Jiralhanae acted as Tartarus. I’ll repeat that in different words
Not all Jiralhanae worshipers would throw around Forerunner technology or show an outward display seeming of disrespect as Tartarus.

Understand, that when you say Brutes you are generalizing the entire race based on the actions of under 10 individuals.

> Although some Jiralhanae were quick to join the Covenant, such as those led by Chieftain Maccabeus, others put up a resistance against the invading alien hegemony. In their primitive state, they were quickly defeated and absorbed into the Covenant.

I don’t even understand what this is a response to and I doubt you do either.

Never in this conversation (not debate) had it been stated by me of Jiralhanae not fighting the covenant,I quoted, in clear words,from Broken Circle

> Added to this, they seemed to have an unfilled hunger for some theological meaning, and they quickly adopted the worship of the Great Ones and set out upon the Path to the Great Journey.

You can tell when someone is arguing just to do so because there isn’t a shred of sense with their posts or “sources”.

> My, my, my…wrong again. It is actually to 60 years (2492 - their year of discovery to 2552 - the year that Tartarus tried to activate Delta Halo). Learn your lore and learn to add and subtract.

This isn’t a critical flaw though and you know this which is why you are acting as if I was “gotten”. Furthermore, since I am actually quoting the books my mind is going to be in a different place than you going off what Halopedia says,but okay.

“Because the significance of these items is going to be understood by them after 60 years,okay. I am surprised they even pilot ships.”
Wow, another 30 whole years. Their faith is clearly going to be equal in terms of San 'Shyuum and Sangheili who have evolved around Forerunner installations.
/sarcasm

> Is that enough sourcing on the matter?

Halopedia isn’t an official source and just quoting material from it shows what general of an understanding you have.

> Everything I have said has either been factual to the lore, or plausible assertions based on the facts that we have been given about The Jiralhanae.

Everything you posted has been more drawn out irrelevant extensions of your own thoughts (headcanon),copying what halopedia has out of context,and overall banter.
If you read something on Halopedia and posted the information from their source, that would be sourcing. Not "Halopedia says so thus I am right farts hehehe.

> The Elites were the ones responsible for his security

You clearly haven’t watched this video or understood what Half-Jaw clearly stated. Last chance before I post the transcript

> There is no interpretation here. The Elites FAILED…F-A-I-L-E-D…GRADE F…on the protection of Regret. It was THEIR FAULT that Regret died…F…for FAULT!

I thought other Covenant forces were there too, isn’t High charity in orbit as well?
Odd how the Covenant could fail when there was so much support available.
It’s almost
as if
someone
didn’t
want
Regret
to
survive
for
some
unknown
but
critical
plot
element

> Learn your lore and check your facts,

What were my errors?

> The point of this thread was an open-ended question with no CLEAR answer

> I’m curious if Tartarus knew the truth that the Halos need a Human to activate. He brought Miranda and Johnson and demanded Miranda put the Index into the control panel. I wonder if Truth and Mercy let him in on the secret, if not why would he suspect a Human was needed to “send them to paradise”?

Doesn’t seem that way. Generally people state “this conversation is open ended” when they prefer to be ignorant or don’t like the official answer. This is how erroneous general fancanon gets created.

> have simply provided my reasoning for why I believed that Tartarus was aware of the Human necessity

Our conversation wasn’t about that though,if you re-read everything you were claiming that not a single Jiralhahanae had faith.

> I attempted to provide a plausible and critical insight into what MAY have been going on in Tartarus’ head

If you were only talking about Tartarus why did you constantly state “brutes”?

> you have provided nothing, short of arguing my points

I think that can be decided by others and we were arguing?

> you did not help the OP find a suitable answer

Tartarus was aware because Truth told him to grab a Human and lit the ring.
Sins absolved.

> EIther stay on track, or drop the matter.

So are we talking about Tartarus not having faith,all brutes not having faith,or brutes only wanting power?

> I would rather it not be locked because you want to digress.

Isn’t that what generally happens on forums? also

> I am surprised that you are able to handle a mouse and keyboard.
> Where do I begin tearing you apart?

> My, my, my…wrong again. It is actually to 60 years (2492 - their year of discovery to 2552 - the year that Tartarus tried to activate Delta Halo). Learn your lore and learn to add and subtract

> And YES…YES…YES…The Elites FAILED to stop the Masterchief from killing Regret. The Elites were the ones responsible for his security, and the security failed to stop Masterchief. There is no interpretation here. The Elites FAILED…F-A-I-L-E-D…GRADE F…on the protection of Regret. It was THEIR FAULT that Regret died…F…for FAULT!
> Learn your lore and check your facts, and come back when you actually know something that is of value to the OP.

I think Tartar Sauce was just a power-hungry lunatic. Like legitimately insane … especially after reading the books.

> 2533274883669557;18:
> I think Tartar Sauce was just a power-hungry lunatic. Like legitimately insane … especially after reading the books.

Wife has always called him by that name without fail, lol. Prophets being the excellent deceivers that they are, had Tartarus hood winked for sure. I believe his hunger for power was not the cause, but the catalyst.