Did I just beat down a pro or a scrub?

Games Other Halo
1

It’s a question that I often wonder when I play competitive online games. When I beat an individual or a team I always wonder if I’m actually any good at this game or if I’m just playing against people who are slightly worse than me. Am I a great white shark in the Pacific Ocean or am I just a betta fish in a fish tank? It’s difficult if not impossible question to answer with any real objectivity. However, it’s a question that I would like to have answered, or at least attempted.

Now let’s be clear about something I don’t have any delusions of grandeur, I have no real aspiration of becoming a professional gamer, but it would just be nice to know where I stack up to other people playing this game. I was under the persuasion that CSR was going to give me a taste of this once again, but it’s implementation has left something to be desired. Not only can we not see a player’s CSR in the matchmaking lobby, but we also cannot see it in a player’s service record in game. I didn’t expect to see it in the lobby, but I did expect to be able to see it in a player’s service record, and I sort of feel misled because of this. So now the only way to see if I was playing against skilled opponents or not is to stop playing the game, go find my ipad or laptop, go to halowaypoint, go to career, go to recent games, and finally see if the people I just played against were any good. And to be honest with you, I don’t even know if I care at this point once I’ve had to leave the game and my friends for 5-10 minutes just to find out about a number that I haven’t even done enough research into to find out if I actually believe in its validity.

You see I just can’t help but think that 343 missed the point with CSR. People want ranks so they can observe their progress in the game and view it as a trophy of their achievements. 343 knows people do this and that’s why they put challenges, medals, and SR rankings visible at all times or only a click or two away. But for some reason CSR is about 10-15 clicks away. Competitive gamers are becoming a marginalized group that no one will listen to it seems. My question is why is it such a big deal to show the gosh-darned rank on my screen so I don’t have to quit playing the game to find it?

As with most things I’m sure that there are multiple reasons that went into making this decision. Maybe there were UI limitations, I don’t know much about that sort of thing, but for some reason I don’t buy it. But I just get the feeling that if 343 and microsoft really wanted to they would have found a way to put it in the game. I feel like the real reason that CSR was implemented is because they’re trying to silence the vocal and irritated competitive community a little bit. I don’t think it’s going to work.

Maybe the reason the CSR rank is not displayed in game in any way is because 343 doesn’t want players to gang up on other players of a lesser skill and make fun of them or something. But that can’t be it because there’s a mute button for that. Or maybe it’s that they don’t want people to feel like they’re judged for there performance in games and that they are taking part in a competition. This sounds more reasonable to me.

Let me give you an analogy to see if this helps get my point across. I’ve run in a lot of 5k races. I’ve never come close to winning any of them because I weigh 220 lbs, and I’m a natural sprinter as some dwarves would say. Does this mean that I don’t want to see my time at the end of the race, or that the times shouldn’t be displayed publicly so that I can fool myself into thinking that this wasn’t competitive? Not in the least. I like knowing what time I run because I like to compete with myself and seeing improvement, and also I realize that there are some people that do have a chance to win the race and I want it to be entertaining for them as well. Even if I’ll never be up there with them.

CSR should be displayed in game and I’m not willing to accept any bullcrap, sweep it under the rug type of reasons why it’s not. I’m sorry that you put a lot of time into this 343. I’m sorry that I’m not more appreciative. I’m sorry that you have to hear the outcry of hundreds of fans on your forums everyday saying that you failed. But being honest you didn’t do this right and I think you’ve got to know it. So I may be overstepping my bounds when I say this, but as a self-proclaimed competitive gamer, I’d prefer my steak dinner promised in H3 before I get screwed.

Oh and by the way I know that these forums are incredibly biased. The casual crowd isn’t the crowd that comes to talk in video game forums, so I know that you can’t take the forums wishes as the wishes of the entire halo community. But here’s a tip. If you want to find out the wishes of the entire community why not take a vote. On one of these screens that pop up at the beginning of the week announcing all the stuff that’s going on with halo why not have a mandatory vote that every online user has to take before they can play. Here’s what it could look like:

Dear halo community,

There have been a number of requests since reach came out to bring back the competitive 1-50 ranking system. We are considering implementing this change and we would like your input, as we value your opinion and continued support for our franchise. With that being said, would you please answer the following question about a 1-50 ranking system or CSR:

If CSR were to come to halo 4, how would you want it to be implemented.
A. Just like halo 3, visible in game on every playlist
B. Visible in the service record only in game
C. Visible on halowaypoint only, not visible anywhere in game
D. I do not want CSR to be visible in any of these places

Keep this vote up for a month or something. If someone doesn’t play halo 4 for a month straight do we really need their opinion? If this is how we had arrived at the current CSR system I would be disappointed for sure, but no blame would go on you 343 because you just took a very fair poll and made it available to every gamertag that plays halo 4 over a period of a month. To me this would be the most unbiased representation about how the community feels, and I don’t see why it would be hard to implement.

I love halo and I want to continue giving my support to the franchise because I have since the beginning of this epic journey back in 2001. But there are changes that need to be made in order to keep myself and the community interested in the product. There are a lot of people out there who are ready to see the return of halo to its rightful throne atop the xbox live most played list. I’m sick of COD and so are many others. But we have to find a way to appease the competitive community and casual crowd alike in order to accomplish this goal. Think about it. Best wishes. Apologies for the lack of brevity.

-Obdodammerung

2

Go to an MLG event and , oh wait, nvm…

3

If CSR were to come to halo 4, how would you want it to be implemented.

A. Just like halo 3, visible in game on every playlist

4

Good, well thought out thread and I agree it would be nice to see CSR in game but it is still a great way to gauge your own skill level even if it is not in game. For example, if someone is a 50 it suggests that players is in the top percentage of players skill wise, whereas a 35 would be an average player. CSR shows YOU how you stack up against other players so it really isn’t that important to see your opponents CSR.

5

> If CSR were to come to halo 4, how would you want it to be implemented.
>
> A. Just like halo 3, visible in game on every playlist

Not every playlist.

Every playlist is just as flawed as not having it at all.

You need a healthy medium of ranked and social, not just one or the other.

6

> Good, well thought out thread and I agree it would be nice to see CSR in game but it is still a great way to gauge your own skill level even if it is not in game. For example, if someone is a 50 it suggests that players is in the top percentage of players skill wise, whereas a 35 would be an average player. CSR shows YOU how you stack up against other players so it really isn’t that important to see your opponents CSR.

That’s a good point and I can see why you say that, but I guess I was referencing a specific incidence that you all could not have known about. I was playing a rumble pit, which was always my preferred gametype, and I had been doing really well and winning most games by double digits. Then I came into a match on haven and got beat by 4 and got 2nd overall. Instead of being able to immediately see if the number 1 guy was a higher rank than me, I had to go through all the legwork to look it up on the web. Turns out he was about 20 levels higher than me so I was cool with it. But if it had been visible in game I could have just kept playing the game and wouldn’t be posting comments in the forums right now.

Thanks for the responses.

7

> > If CSR were to come to halo 4, how would you want it to be implemented.
> >
> > A. Just like halo 3, visible in game on every playlist
>
> Not every playlist.
>
> Every playlist is just as flawed as not having it at all.
>
> You need a healthy medium of ranked and social, not just one or the other.

I agree with you on this, but the original post was only 600 characters shy of the limit and I didn’t think it would be a good time to bring up another point. But yes if I had it my way we would have some ranked and social gametypes like in H3.

8

great idea op and the ironic thing is since csr started on monday the population has gone up about 35 to 40 percent from a very low point admittedly, 50k last night so i can’t help but wonder how many more people would have come back if csr was visible in game.

9

> > Good, well thought out thread and I agree it would be nice to see CSR in game but it is still a great way to gauge your own skill level even if it is not in game. For example, if someone is a 50 it suggests that players is in the top percentage of players skill wise, whereas a 35 would be an average player. CSR shows YOU how you stack up against other players so it really isn’t that important to see your opponents CSR.
>
> That’s a good point and I can see why you say that, but I guess I was referencing a specific incidence that you all could not have known about. I was playing a rumble pit, which was always my preferred gametype, and I had been doing really well and winning most games by double digits. Then I came into a match on haven and got beat by 4 and got 2nd overall. Instead of being able to immediately see if the number 1 guy was a higher rank than me, I had to go through all the legwork to look it up on the web. Turns out he was about 20 levels higher than me so I was cool with it. But if it had been visible in game I could have just kept playing the game and wouldn’t be posting comments in the forums right now.
>
> Thanks for the responses.

I totally agree what you’re saying and in terms of seeing the skill of players you are winning or losing against CSR is of little use, but IMO for an overall picture of players skill, CSR is an excellent indicator.

10

> great idea op and the ironic thing is since csr started on monday the population has gone up about 35 to 40 percent from a very low point admittedly, 50k last night so i can’t help but wonder how many more people would have come back if csr was visible in game.

I think the pop. increase is probably because of Castle Map Pack more than anything else. Once I download it I’m getting my achievements then I’m done with H4 again. I’ve been playing Reach again with my friends because well, it feels like halo and it doesn’t make me want to smash my controller every 5 seconds.

11

I honestly doubt ranks have any impact on the population. Social was much more popular than ranked in halo 3. Casuals go to the biggest thing. And the cod got big because it was different.

12

> That’s a good point and I can see why you say that, but I guess I was referencing a specific incidence that you all could not have known about. <mark>I was playing a rumble pit, which was always my preferred gametype, and I had been doing really well and winning most games by double digits. Then I came into a match on haven and got beat by 4 and got 2nd overall. Instead of being able to immediately see if the number 1 guy was a higher rank than me, I had to go through all the legwork to look it up on the web. Turns out he was about 20 levels higher than me so I was cool with it.</mark> But if it had been visible in game I could have just kept playing the game and wouldn’t be posting comments in the forums right now.
>
> Thanks for the responses.

I’m not sure I understand.

Are you looking for a justification for being dunked on? Do you know how you can quickly tell if a player is better than you? Losing to them.

In that moment, in that game, the other player was better - why do you need a number to confirm your lose?

> Let me give you an analogy to see if this helps get my point across. I’ve run in a lot of 5k races. I’ve never come close to winning any of them because I weigh 220 lbs, and I’m a natural sprinter as some dwarves would say. Does this mean that I don’t want to see my time at the end of the race, or that the times shouldn’t be displayed publicly so that I can fool myself into thinking that this wasn’t competitive? Not in the least. <mark>I like knowing what time I run because I like to compete with myself and seeing improvement, and also I realize that there are some people that do have a chance to win the race and I want it to be entertaining for them as well. Even if I’ll never be up there with them.</mark>

Isn’t this how CSR is currently implemented?

13

We need a ranked playlist with CSR showing for every playlist, and a social playlist with only highest CSR achieved showing somewhere in the Service Record. That way ranks are in game but aren’t thrown in casual players’ faces. People who don’t care about ranks won’t go looking for it.

I’m just so sick of rifling through everybody’s Service Record to see their KD to get somewhat of an idea of who I’m up against. And I will never bother to come here on Waypoint to check an opponenet’s CSR.

14

Very well put OP. I’m not very good at halo just yet, I’m working on it. However i certainly would like some clear indication exactly where i stand in the grand scheme of things as well as how good or otherwise my opponents are. It gives the competitive person that element they are looking for. Its why some of us play games in the first place. Personally i want whatever it is that shows how good you are to be instantly visible, even though its gonna show in not very good. Regrettably game developers care about the casual gamer because that’s who they make their money from. Therefore they must make the game all soft and lovely.

15

> > If CSR were to come to halo 4, how would you want it to be implemented.
> >
> > A. Just like halo 3, visible in game on every playlist
>
> Not every playlist.
>
> Every playlist is just as flawed as not having it at all.
>
> You need a healthy medium of ranked and social, not just one or the other.

Indeed. CSR isn’t necessary for playlists like Flood, Action Sack, Grifball, and perhaps Multi-Team.

16

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. It’d be great to see CSR visible in-game again. Well, besides de-rankers and account-buyers…

17

> > That’s a good point and I can see why you say that, but I guess I was referencing a specific incidence that you all could not have known about. <mark>I was playing a rumble pit, which was always my preferred gametype, and I had been doing really well and winning most games by double digits. Then I came into a match on haven and got beat by 4 and got 2nd overall. Instead of being able to immediately see if the number 1 guy was a higher rank than me, I had to go through all the legwork to look it up on the web. Turns out he was about 20 levels higher than me so I was cool with it.</mark> But if it had been visible in game I could have just kept playing the game and wouldn’t be posting comments in the forums right now.
> >
> > Thanks for the responses.
>
> I’m not sure I understand.
>
> Are you looking for a justification for being dunked on? Do you know how you can quickly tell if a player is better than you? Losing to them.
>
> In that moment, in that game, the other player was better - why do you need a number to confirm your lose?
>
>
>
> > Let me give you an analogy to see if this helps get my point across. I’ve run in a lot of 5k races. I’ve never come close to winning any of them because I weigh 220 lbs, and I’m a natural sprinter as some dwarves would say. Does this mean that I don’t want to see my time at the end of the race, or that the times shouldn’t be displayed publicly so that I can fool myself into thinking that this wasn’t competitive? Not in the least. <mark>I like knowing what time I run because I like to compete with myself and seeing improvement, and also I realize that there are some people that do have a chance to win the race and I want it to be entertaining for them as well. Even if I’ll never be up there with them.</mark>
>
> Isn’t this how CSR is currently implemented?

I’m not entirely sure why I’m getting the condescension for my opinions here. I’m also not sure when getting beat by 4 in rumble pit turned into getting dunked on, but alas this is the internet.

Anyway the point is that getting beat by 4 by a player who is ranked significantly higher than me makes me feel like I had a good game. But getting beat by a low level player makes me feel like I need to step up or give the game a break. Maybe it’s just my competitive nature.

Here’s another analogy. I’m a college basketball fan, and we just finished up with the NCAA tournament. Florida Gulf Coast University (FGCU) just went on a tear in the tournament this year as a 15 seed (2nd lowest seed for folks who don’t watch college basketball). Now what makes this run so incredible is that they had a low ranking and weren’t expected to do it. No one would have cared if Louisville (NCAA tournament champs this year) had beat the teams that FGCU had, because they were expected to.

This is what I’m trying to say with CSR. Context is everything. Yes, the best player or team will win the match, but there’s a lot more to it than that. If I just beat someone on the MLG pro circuit in rumble pit I’d like to know it immediately so that I can be excited instead of having to dilute my excitement as I leave the game to go figure out how the other players ranked. Currently it’s a novelty to be able to see how you rank by coming to waypoint and I’ll put forth the extra effort to see my stats. But I can already foresee myself in the near future just giving up on the extra effort after each game in trying to find the skill levels of the people I was playing against or even tracking my own stats for that matter. And at that point why do we even have CSR, if the people who wanted it don’t want to go through the extra effort to find the results from their games.

And in regards to the race analogy that I gave in the OP, yes CSR does tell you the rank in the same way that a race will tell you your times. But most runners would prefer their times be told to them as they crossed the finish line. In fact, nearly any runner who plans on competing at any level has their own stopwatch so they’re not dependent on another party to tell them how they performed. Which actually gives me a good idea. Why can’t we just switch CSR on and off in game. It’d be like an in-game stopwatch. If you don’t care about it just switch it off. Not a bad idea I’d say.

18

I’m not sure I understand. If you beat them, they’re worse than you. If you lose, they’re better than you. You really don’t need in-game ranks to figure that out.

Also, I don’t know why you thought you would be able to see them in someone’s Service Record. They confirmed a long time ago that they would only be visible on Waypoint and not in-game at all.

19

I’m going to make this short and simple. If they want halo 4 to be at the level it use to. Make the ranking system like Halo 3 and also the matchmaking. CSR makes no sense how you rank up

20

343i would have to be very careful with the way they take the poll. Most games require you to hit A to move to the next screen. Tapping A to get into the game would cast a vote for what is probably the minority. As long as they require tapping a different button to get into the voting I would go along with it.

343i… If this happens PLEASE don’t use the D pad for voting. I have received the wrong ordinance drop because of that button.

Also they would have to link the vote to our gamer tags since some people have multiple accounts on the same console and guests should not be allowed to vote.