Did anyone even NOTICE the things 343 removed ?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
23

> 2533274925159248;1:
> Every single flaming little nostalgia-goggled “fan”

Hey man, no need to be rude.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> is only concentrating on ADS and sprint, nothing more.

Those are pretty big changes to base player traits. Base player traits tend to affect every aspect of the game. Can’t particularly say I blame players for complaining about those changes when it’s apparent just how much of the game they can affect. Especially when the gameplay they create is questionable.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> Did you guys completely forget what was removed that made H4 unacceptable for competitive play?

Of course not. That doesn’t mean I have to accept everything 343 does with the next game though. I’m all for people being thankful for removing some of the bad mechanics (I for one am very excited for the first Halo game without jetpack in 4 years) but that doesn’t mean we should excuse everything new too.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> 343 has basically removed everything from H5 that made H4 not so balanced for example; Loadouts, Ordinance, Flinch, Grenade indicators and most important thing of all; un-fair starts.

Yes, and I love them for it. That said, I’m not a sprint fan myself and the other changes to the game are questionable. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 4, and had these changes been made to Halo 4 after its release I would have been very pleased being a significant improvement over what we had. However, Halo 5 is its own game and I’m going to treat it as such. Improvement over Halo 4 or not.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> What more do you guys want?

Playable elites (as of yet they aren’t confirmed for Halo 5), movement that has depth, map design that has risk versus reward elements built in that allow a player to get around faster to cut down on the need of sprint (but at the cost of health or exposure to enemy fire). Perhaps a starting pistol that works like a weak concussion rifle with a powerful blast (but more of a test than something for the entire game, just an idea I’ve been kicking around) among a plethora of things they could do with forge, theatre etc…

Weapons that focus on player skills that add something unique to the experience (such as the Reach Grenade launcher and a reworked concussion Rifle) as opposed to weapons that seemingly do the work for you (like the new rocket/grenade launcher).

More interesting map design in general, such as multi-gravitational maps.

Heck, why not a map authoring tool for PC and Mac that’s activated on waypoint when you buy the game? Keep forge and stuff in, but the map authoring tool could be a full blown map editor for the dedicated forgers who want to do more with map design for Halo than forge allows. There’s issues with DLC there, but 343 could always go the way of Valve and CSGO for their map DLC.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> I know what you want; the exact copy of either H2 or H3 ported to the current engine.

“You don’t like Halo (insert number [n > 3] here) therefore you hate all change!” Is starting to wear on my nerves.

Rather than attacking the players who oppose certain mechanics (and put forward arguments against them) why not put arguments forward for those mechanics? Explain why they’re a good idea.

How do they benefit the game? Are they increasing the skill gap or decreasing it? Is there more 343i could have done with the pre-existing mechanics that could be done better than what they’re doing now? Do they actually server a purpose in the game beyond looking flashy or appealing to the latest trends?

I get that you’re tired of people complaining, but I’m equally tired of people ragging on others for not liking the mechanics without really debating why these mechanics are good for the game beyond “Halo needs to change.”

Sure, Halo needs to change to survive in the long run, I’m not going to dispute that but that doesn’t mean this is good or the right change.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> You know what? It aint happening, Halo has to go forward or it will slowly die, you cant convince me saying, that Halo would survive forever with the same exact formula.

Of course it wouldn’t survive without changing. But if Halo 4 has shown us anything it’s that bad change is going to kill it a whole lot faster. And I know this isn’t Halo 4, it’s Halo 5, and the problems (whether there are any is debatable) are not the same but that doesn’t mean that people aren’t allowed to point them out and/or complain about them.

In this thread you’ve essentially said “343i has changed some bad things for arguably less bad things, so we shouldn’t complain at all. Anyone who does complain literally hates all change and they only ever want the game to be exactly the same as Halo 2 and 3.”

I’m sorry if I can’t get on board with that as an argument in defence of the new mechanics.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> Look at COD,

I think we can stop using CoD as an example of a franchise that never changes given CoD:AW. It’s like making jokes about America’s soccer team despite the whole Tim Howard thing.

> 2533274925159248;1:
> H5 is the classical arena Halo what we all loved back in the day, but only with a modern and evolved twist.

Yes, and it’s that twist that people are complaining about, which they are allowed to do.

24

i am so glad i get to play the beta.
it looked much more like arena halo then before… almost had the fun “custom game” feel

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> 2533274857465597;19:
> > 2535452061157766;18:
> > > 2533274826802205;12:
> > > I actually like loadouts, and I don’t think they’re gone completely. AAs can go, but if they remove loadouts, I will be extremely disappointed.
> >
> >
> >
> > Haven’t they added enough bullcrap to halo for you? H4 kids and 343 D-riders already get sprint like they want and some stupid spartan abilites. Sprint, loadouts, AAs, and ordinances already don’t belong in Halo. So yes they need to take out as much of that as they can. Loadouts are a huge reason for the failure of Halo 4.
>
>
> Take out the loadouts. They were a bit unfair even though it was cool to bring your own weapons in. Also I’m all for the new abilities. I’m not one for the same old boring combat.

For one the old combat isn’t boring? For two, that old combat is what made Halo successful. Halo will not be successful as it used to be in the direction it’s going.

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> 2535452061157766;25:
> > 2533274857465597;19:
> > > 2535452061157766;18:
> > > > 2533274826802205;12:
> > > > I actually like loadouts, and I don’t think they’re gone completely. AAs can go, but if they remove loadouts, I will be extremely disappointed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Haven’t they added enough bullcrap to halo for you? H4 kids and 343 D-riders already get sprint like they want and some stupid spartan abilites. Sprint, loadouts, AAs, and ordinances already don’t belong in Halo. So yes they need to take out as much of that as they can. Loadouts are a huge reason for the failure of Halo 4.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Take out the loadouts. They were a bit unfair even though it was cool to bring your own weapons in. Also I’m all for the new abilities. I’m not one for the same old boring combat.
>
>
>
> For one the old combat isn’t boring? For two, that old combat is what made Halo successful. Halo will not be successful as it used to be in the direction it’s going.

Yes it was boring to me. I’m not the kind of person who can play the same game every release. If Halo were to be the same game every release, it would be incredibly boring. That’s why I gravitated more towards Halo 4. Now this is when people will come in saying I only like Halo 4 because I’m bad at Halo. I swear to god it’s like people’s only validation of their existence is how well they do in a game from 10 years ago. Also I’m fully aware of the issues and the unbalanced gameplay of Halo 4. I was just about to adapt a bit and find a work around to the more annoying aspects of the game.

27

> 2533274925159248;1:
> Every single flaming little nostalgia-goggled “fan” is only concentrating on ADS and sprint, nothing more. Did you guys completely forget what was removed that made H4 unacceptable for competitive play?
>
> RANDOMNESS and UN-FAIR STARTS.
>
> 343 has basically removed everything from H5 that made H4 not so balanced for example; Loadouts, Ordinance, Flinch, Grenade indicators and most important thing of all; un-fair starts.
>
> -We have arena focused multiplayer that is exactly the route back to Halo roots, which is EXACTLY what 343 promised.
> -Map control is back
> -Power weapon control is back
> -Fair starts are back
> -De-scope is back
>
> What more do you guys want? I know what you want; the exact copy of either H2 or H3 ported to the current engine.
> You know what? It aint happening, Halo has to go forward or it will slowly die, you cant convince me saying, that Halo would survive forever with the same exact formula.
> Look at COD, its sales are slowly but steadily dropping and so will Halos if stays in the same place and it thank god 343 knows this and doesnt let Halo to stay in one place.
>
> H5 is the classical arena Halo what we all loved back in the day, but only with a modern and evolved twist.
> Trust me people, this is the road Halo needs to take!

Well said, sir!

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> 2533274858646258;27:
> > 2533274925159248;1:
> > Every single flaming little nostalgia-goggled “fan” is only concentrating on ADS and sprint, nothing more. Did you guys completely forget what was removed that made H4 unacceptable for competitive play?
> >
> > RANDOMNESS and UN-FAIR STARTS.
> >
> > 343 has basically removed everything from H5 that made H4 not so balanced for example; Loadouts, Ordinance, Flinch, Grenade indicators and most important thing of all; un-fair starts.
> >
> > -We have arena focused multiplayer that is exactly the route back to Halo roots, which is EXACTLY what 343 promised.
> > -Map control is back
> > -Power weapon control is back
> > -Fair starts are back
> > -De-scope is back
> >
> > What more do you guys want? I know what you want; the exact copy of either H2 or H3 ported to the current engine.
> > You know what? It aint happening, Halo has to go forward or it will slowly die, you cant convince me saying, that Halo would survive forever with the same exact formula.
> > Look at COD, its sales are slowly but steadily dropping and so will Halos if stays in the same place and it thank god 343 knows this and doesnt let Halo to stay in one place.
> >
> > H5 is the classical arena Halo what we all loved back in the day, but only with a modern and evolved twist.
> > Trust me people, this is the road Halo needs to take!
>
>
> Well said, sir!

A thousand times this^^^^^^^^

29

> 2535452061157766;14:
> DID ANYBODY NOTICE WHAT THEY ADDED? They took out SOME of the bad stuff and just added…more bad stuff!

The bad stuff they added is a lot less significant than the bad stuff we had before.

I’m not going to praise 343I for doing what is expected of them. I will simply acknowledge that they have made improvements. Something many people unfortunately won’t even do.

30

I agree 100% with the OP.

The game looks like a modern version of classic arena Halo and I’m incredibly excited for it.

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> 2533274925159248;3:
> > 2533274809475040;2:
> > Please don’t assume that people want a carbon-copy of a previous title just because they’re dissatisfied with these particular changes. It’s an incredibly juvenile leap in logic, and it only serves to stain the other points you’re trying to make. Personally, the only changes that significantly bug me are the overzealous announcer and the annoying Spartan Chatter; but I can live with the former, and the latter will almost certainly have a toggle option. That being said, people have every right to make some preliminary criticisms about the new mechanics. If you don’t agree with that criticism, then make a proper case for why you think they’re going to work instead childishly discrediting everybody that doesn’t agree beforehand.
>
>
> Well you clearly didnt get my point. My point was, that whatever change 343 makes it isnt good, its automatically -Yoink-. Just saying, that people should take their goggles off and accept change for once, especially when most of the core game-breaking things from H4 are gone.
> I really dont see anything wrong with current state of H5.

and what he’s saying is despite a lot of unnecessary hate, there’s a decent amount with actual criticism that you’re discrediting by just brushing it off as them wanting a carbon copy

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> 2535422112705145;13:
> > 2533274819446242;7:
> > Oh yes, I am so grateful 343 removed/brought back things that should have been a given from the very start. Let’s also just ignore the fact we had to ask for these things to return and that we had these exact same type of “You hate all change/you just want H2/3.5” comments when everyone was complaining about Halo 4’s additions.
> >
> > People are tired of having to ‘deal’ with both large and small bad changes just to get to the good parts. Sprint is still bad, grenade hitmarkers are still bad, unscoped flinch/screen shake is bad, announcer needs to shut up once in a while, endgame bro-downs are just tacky, audio hitmarkers are annoying and detract from otherwise decent sound design. You may think many of these details are minor ones, and they are, individually. Together they drag down the experience.
> >
> > Why do we have to settle and deal with all this extra crap rather than just having the developers show restraint for once?
> >
> > Most people do notice the things they have removed, but for the most part they are things that don’t really deserve a gold star for doing what they should have done in the first place. They also don’t particularly like that these good removals get buried under a mountain of fluff.
>
>
> Oh give me a break. That is such a lazy come back. Firstly “things that should have been a given from the start.” Really? Excuse people for trying something different. Things change. Things SHOULD change. Everyone always gives COD crap for being the same. But it’s fine here? Also, Even THEY have decided to make big changes because they realize the same thing. And no the changes in AW are not minor and you can’t pull the “same kill times so it doesn’t matter” card. Because honestly if that’s all what cod is made of then the same logic should be applied to halo. Same kill times. Same guns. etc.
>
> Secondly no one is asking you to ‘deal’ or “settle” people or at least I have simply been asking you to acknowledge that halo 5 is closer to what you classic fellas have been asking for since 3. We simply ask for acknowledgement. But instead of doing so you try to cop out with a stupid “it should have been there” claim. It just makes you sound like a jerk. You don’t have to like certain aspects of what they are bringing. And no one is asking you to bend over and take the changes with a smile.
>
> But you people really need to quit undercutting 343 and stop treating halo 5 like it’s some giant disappointment. It wouldn’t kill you to be positive about things for a change.

from what we have seen there are no big changes. there are still many things that we had better 7 years ago than we did with anything 343 has done such as playlist structuring, theater, audio design etc. you say he made a lazy comeback…but all you’ve done is speak in generalizations.

  1. i’m a hardcore halo fan, and i don’t play much CoD…but i don’t hate it, there are many that don’t
  2. people are asking for change, even the ones criticizing these changes
  3. no-one created any of those arguments is the 2nd half of your paragraph, tbh i don’t even see those arguments at all
  4. that’s right we don’t have to like the criticisms, so why are there comments asking for it to stop instead of comments providing a counter point?

i don’t mind CoD, the thing that irks me about that franchise is the campaign is completely pro-american cliche and the multiplayer has got too excessive, the things they add in are random and don’t add much to the value of the game.

tbh there’s not much positives to look at other than the kill times are faster and less aim assist, the only other positives are that they scrapped things from a game that had a strong negative reaction.

they haven’t really added much, just removed trash mechanics. the spartan abilities could be game breaking or promising, the beta will tell. otherwise the other things being speculated such as announcer, spartan chatter, map design, medal design, audio design, game pace, textures and lighting are fair criticisms.

33

> 2533274825160595;21:
> > 2533274909396865;20:
> > > 2533274809475040;2:
> > > Please don’t assume that people want a carbon-copy of a previous title just because they’re dissatisfied with these particular changes. It’s an incredibly juvenile leap in logic, and it only serves to stain the other points you’re trying to make. Personally, the only changes that significantly bug me are the overzealous announcer and the annoying Spartan Chatter; but I can live with the former, and the latter will almost certainly have a toggle option. That being said, people have every right to make some preliminary criticisms about the new mechanics. If you don’t agree with that criticism, then make a proper case for why you think they’re going to work instead childishly discrediting everybody that doesn’t agree beforehand.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t think the its juvenile leap of logic because player who hate the direction Halo is going can’t really tell you what they would add to the game. I have asked several times on this forum how exactly would they have evolved Halo without adding all the things they hate. Nobody has been able to tell me anything… Only hate and why this and that won’t work and how Halo 2 is the epitome of a Halo game…
>
>
> The only answer I have ever gotten is increasing base player speed… You know that thing that literally everyone has been able to change since Halo 3.

when you increase base movement speed in halo there is sliding and poor movement acceleration, the only way to truly increase base movement speed without it turning into ice skating is from the developers end

34

what more do you want? not too much really, the thing i didn’t like about halo 4 and hopefully doesn’t plague halo 5 is the lack of cool mechanics both intentional and accidental which allow players to play halo in ways the game wasn’t intended. when everything is available to you on the map there is more room to morph the game into how you want to play, couple that with cool jumping mechanics, items that aren’t just weapons, interactive elements on maps (explosives, switches etc) and small objects that you can move or fling with grenades or explosives and you have a fun, manipulatable, varied game.

the cool thing about halo is on the same map you could play in the most goofy ways or really competitive or just go into forge and use it for fun custom games which are so different to the vanilla experience, many of the maps could house many different customs because of the way the game was designed.

it’s something the forge experience lacks now since reach and it’s most definitely lacking in default MM.

i think when you condense the sandbox to give specific items more functions then you can have more variety on 1 map rather than splitting the items apart to create a broader weapon sandbox.

lastly the mechanics added might be giving the player too much off spawn, in such a way that if it isn’t balanced correctly will give the game many defensive mechanics. if you look at halo 1 the overshield and invis were timed power-ups, that had a short enough life span that they had to be used offensively or otherwise it was a wasted power-up. adding more mechanics which induce a more offensive game makes the defensive part more significant and the overall game more intense.

35

People just like to complain. That’s just how people are. They don’t care when things improve… they’d much rather just complain… or at least that is what it seems like…

36

> 2533274857465597;19:
> > 2535452061157766;18:
> > > 2533274826802205;12:
> > > I actually like loadouts, and I don’t think they’re gone completely. AAs can go, but if they remove loadouts, I will be extremely disappointed.
> >
> >
> >
> > Haven’t they added enough bullcrap to halo for you? H4 kids and 343 D-riders already get sprint like they want and some stupid spartan abilites. Sprint, loadouts, AAs, and ordinances already don’t belong in Halo. So yes they need to take out as much of that as they can. Loadouts are a huge reason for the failure of Halo 4.
>
>
> Take out the loadouts. They were a bit unfair even though it was cool to bring your own weapons in. Also I’m all for the new abilities. I’m not one for the same old boring combat.

the only time loadouts were good was for Spartan Ops

37

I found the ordinance very unfair

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> 2533274819302824;29:
> > 2535452061157766;14:
> > DID ANYBODY NOTICE WHAT THEY ADDED? They took out SOME of the bad stuff and just added…more bad stuff!
>
>
> The bad stuff they added is a lot less significant than the bad stuff we had before.
>
> I’m not going to praise 343I for doing what is expected of them. I will simply acknowledge that they have made improvements. Something many people unfortunately won’t even do.

There has been mistakes, no doubt about that, but 343 has certainly not brought about doomsday to the franchise, contrary to what other more opinionated people might say.

The attempts to equalize everything is a good start.

39

> 2533274809475040;2:
> Please don’t assume that people want a carbon-copy of a previous title just because they’re dissatisfied with these particular changes. It’s an incredibly juvenile leap in logic, and it only serves to stain the other points you’re trying to make. Personally, the only changes that significantly bug me are the overzealous announcer and the annoying Spartan Chatter; but I can live with the former, and the latter will almost certainly have a toggle option. That being said, people have every right to make some preliminary criticisms about the new mechanics. If you don’t agree with that criticism, then make a proper case for why you think they’re going to work instead childishly discrediting everybody that doesn’t agree beforehand.

I kinda like the Spartan chatter. I think it adds a layer of immersion. But, I’m sure there will be a toggle.

40

Call of duty is failing because of its changes at least in my mind… and for halo 5 … until I play the beta I cant say more other then there current way things been going with 343 and halo… and that just they they cant seem to get it right

41

I heard that they removed the ability to crouch jump when they added in the ground pound, anyone know if this is correct?

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> 2533274800739735;41:
> I heard that they removed the ability to crouch jump when they added in the ground pound, anyone know if this is correct?

They’re working on it. You can still crouch jump so long as you’re near a ledge, as it will cancel the ground pound.