Did 343I get wrong feedback or?

Did players give wrong feedback regarding storyline?
Frankie said people complained about lack of focus on Master Chief… but the reason why storyline is heavily creaticized is how it abandoned everything set up by previous stuff like Halo 4, Spartan ops, isn’t it? I searched, but rarely did people mention how Halo 5 discarded all the previous stuff. Why abandon Halo 4, Spartan Ops, Didact etc on comic? It’s not like they are trying to publish those comics outside US.
Sure, Halo 2 kinda had false marketing, but not exactly. We still did fight Covenant on Earth and still came back to Earth at the end. Halo 2 still matched its marketing to certain degree unlike Halo 5.
Halo 2 built upon Halo 1 storyline. How destruction of Halo 04 affected Covenant all that. Halo 5 had little to none of that. It didn’t try to build upon what was set before. Poor execution and little development are lesser problem.

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> Frankie said people complained about lack of focus on Master Chief… but the reason why storyline is heavily creaticized is how it abandoned everything set up by previous stuff like Halo 4, Spartan ops, isn’t it? I searched, but rarely did people mention how Halo 5 discarded all the previous stuff. Why abandon Halo 4, Spartan Ops, Didact etc on comic? It’s not like they are trying to publish those comics outside US.

Then you didn’t search very hard.

@HolyAngelRaziel, I understand you are sharing a thought about Halo storyline, but what do you mean that could have been mistaken, as you state here:

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> Did players give wrong feedback regarding storyline?

343 seems to have an idea of what people are upset about, but are coming away with results that miss the forest for the trees.

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> 343 seems to have an idea of what people are upset about, but are coming away with results that miss the forest for the trees.

Now that is something I would love to hear more about. Please, elaborate.

Maybe they used the wrong writer. I remember reading a lot of negative feedback with Brian Reed.

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> Maybe they used the wrong writer. I remember reading a lot of negative feedback with Brian Reed.

Do you guys believe the entire weight of the blame can be put on the shoulders of one guy? When it comes to responsibility, I am a follower of the old school. Decisionmakers are responsible for the misdoings, especially when in practice they have very little to do with development of the project itself, earning the biggest money at the same time.

My intention wasn’t to blame one person since I know it’s a team, but I think he would have a big influence on how the story played out which is why I brought up if people thought he was the right choice or not.

We won’t really know until we get the chance to play Halo 6. But, I guess if we’re going to come up with theories on why Halo 5 ended up the way it did, I’m just going to say that I think it had more to do with Microsoft Studio Execs than anything 343i could have done.

I think there were a few things they pushed for in Halo 5 because they wanted it to be the flagship game for what they wanted the Xbox to be based on that first E3 presentation. So, a huge emphasis on online connectivity and online only multiplayer for a console that they intended to be online all the time with a DRM system that most consumers were not comfortable with. Among other things.
Maybe they also forced some revisions to the story, or 343i were forced to funnel resources to other areas that impacted the end presentation. I only say this because the teaser trailer and the marketing like hunt the truth are both inconsistent with what Halo 5 ended up being, while at the same time making sense as a natural progression from Halo 4. It’s kind of weird. (o_O )
Also, I remember when Halo 5 got released, in response to fans upset about online only multiplayer and co-op, they said it was because the engine wasn’t strong enough to have couch co-op without it impacting performance. But now, with Halo 6 we’re going to get couch co-op. I mean, sure, it could mean they’ve improved the engine, but it still feels like a weird coincidence when placed against a bunch of other factors.

Anyhoo…, even if the only thing they get out of fan “feedback” is we want more Master Chief, I’m ok with that. I think 343i did the best job of showing us who John is in Halo 4, that I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with Halo 6.

The thing is previous games that didnt have MC did rather well. Reach, ODST, Wars…

The problem is MC was in Halo 5, and it felt like Locke was getting all the glory. I remember in my head always thinking “when do i get to play as MC” throughout the campaign.

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> > 2533274812652989;4:
> > 343 seems to have an idea of what people are upset about, but are coming away with results that miss the forest for the trees.
>
> Now that is something I would love to hear more about. Please, elaborate.

Well, let’s examine the promise to “add more Master Chief” to future titles. Was the lack of Master Chief for most of Halo 5 a criticism? Certainly. But as we’ve seen with Reach and ODST, people don’t necessarily mind playing as non-Chief characters. And adding more Chief doesn’t do anything to address the lack of development for the rest of Blue Team or Fireteam Osiris. If anything, 343 is probably just going to either get rid of the two teams (drastic method) or simply make certain characters from either team playable (more reasonable).

How they were surprised that people would have wanted more Chief is beyond me though. Remember when Mike Colter said his character, Locke, was the main hero of the game and then Frankie had to “clarify” that Chief was still the main hero? He pretty much lied there and kept up the expectation that the Blue Team and Osiris would have more or less an equal number of missions. Was that also a problem in fan expectations? Yes, but it was one 343 didn’t do anything to address until they already had our money.

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> The thing is previous games that didnt have MC did rather well. Reach, ODST, Wars…
>
> The problem is MC was in Halo 5, and it felt like Locke was getting all the glory. I remember in my head always thinking “when do i get to play as MC” throughout the campaign.

Halo 2 all over again. Same crap, different day.

Not sure there needs to be a correlation between who is the hero and who you play most as, although I can certainly see why people wanted more Chief time. I hated playing Arbiter in H2. Hated. It.

And to the OP: No, they didn’t get the “wrong” feedback. They got different feedback from everyone who played the game. Your theory is a prime example. They got some flack for abandoning the lore, sure. They also got a lot for making the story too dependent on lore from outside the main line games. -Yoink!- if you do, -Yoink!- if you don’t. At any rate, if they’re a little reluctant to make the random criticisms of teenaged gamers into the bedrock of their Halo 6 story then I’m okay with that. I don’t really expect my Halo to rise to the level of Frank Herbert, I don’t need it to be seamlessly cohesive from one game to the next, and I don’t think you’ll ever see a game studio writing team win a Hugo award. Good story-telling is nice when you can get it, but great story-telling in a video game is getting greedy. At least given what I’ve seen of video games so far.

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> > > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > 343 seems to have an idea of what people are upset about, but are coming away with results that miss the forest for the trees.
> >
> > Now that is something I would love to hear more about. Please, elaborate.
>
> Well, let’s examine the promise to “add more Master Chief” to future titles. Was the lack of Master Chief for most of Halo 5 a criticism? Certainly. But as we’ve seen with Reach and ODST, people don’t necessarily mind playing as non-Chief characters. And adding more Chief doesn’t do anything to address the lack of development for the rest of Blue Team or Fireteam Osiris. If anything, 343 is probably just going to either get rid of the two teams (drastic method) or simply make certain characters from either team playable (more reasonable).
>
> How they were surprised that people would have wanted more Chief is beyond me though. Remember when Mike Colter said his character, Locke, was the main hero of the game and then Frankie had to “clarify” that Chief was still the main hero? He pretty much lied there and kept up the expectation that the Blue Team and Osiris would have more or less an equal number of missions. Was that also a problem in fan expectations? Yes, but it was one 343 didn’t do anything to address until they already had our money.

Yes, lots of people were upset that the Chief wasn’t the primary focus in a Halo main series title.
Although the criticism might have been more muted if the H5 story wasn’t such a generic, uninspiring, disjointed, nonsensical, bland affair.
Creative writing can make a compelling storyline out of basically any idea, no matter how generic or common. H5 Ideas were not bad, it was the execution.

Admitting mistakes outright can be hard for any company - there is a bottom line and shareholders to satisfy and saying “We done goofed this right up, yo” followed by a list of the major complaints would have consequences. I am more hopeful for the future simply because it seems that 343 are really taking their time on H6. Not overly hopeful. Just a bit.

If those 3 talk missions had been Blue Team normal missions the Campaign would be much better.

@I DR HALSEY I, returning to the case of missing the point of entire forest for the notion of trees or even a tree here and a tree there and maybe another one somewhere else, let me ask you, what do you seek in Halo?

This topic is relevant to all the community feedback the Waypoint is source of. Because is asks the question, if there is so much feedback and communication going around, what either has gone wrong, is going wrong or could go wrong in the near future, that still agreement is not being reached?

@recon Z 3 R 0, agreed that video games storytelling is something else to making novels. Good that you said it. Games have different priorities. Novel story has only itself to entertain the receiver, but games have other factors to emphasize as well. Poor story can ridicule even a well made game nonetheless. But if a gameplay is solid, multiplayer should do even without better story. Similar, strong story is insufficient to grant game good reviews when gameplay hinders immersivity.

Like I said across couple of other threads, there needs to be balance. Game should be enough to meet modernday expectations but pushing it to critical limits in whatever direction is unsafe. Pieces forming the game should be of adequate measure to one another, even if it means the final product will be of smaller value to the industry progress.

For that matter, the graphics. I understand the industry has become fascinated with possibilities of modern technology, especially graphical performance power, allowing to develop works of astounding outlooks, pushing standards forward. But in striving to achieve visual excellence, other crucial factors were lost, providing for the crisis of modern era gaming.

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> > 2533274798731851;1:
> > Frankie said people complained about lack of focus on Master Chief… but the reason why storyline is heavily creaticized is how it abandoned everything set up by previous stuff like Halo 4, Spartan ops, isn’t it? I searched, but rarely did people mention how Halo 5 discarded all the previous stuff. Why abandon Halo 4, Spartan Ops, Didact etc on comic? It’s not like they are trying to publish those comics outside US.
>
> Then you didn’t search very hard.

you just proved op’s point.

> 2533274901440231;16:
> you just proved op’s point.

What point is that? Because where OP said he’s searched and found little mention of people complaining how Halo 5 abandoned story element should set up by Halo 4, I have seen more than a few threads talking about that very thing.

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> > 2533274812652989;11:
> > > 2535469324078285;5:
> > > > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > > 343 seems to have an idea of what people are upset about, but are coming away with results that miss the forest for the trees.
> > >
> > > Now that is something I would love to hear more about. Please, elaborate.
> >
> > Well, let’s examine the promise to “add more Master Chief” to future titles. Was the lack of Master Chief for most of Halo 5 a criticism? Certainly. But as we’ve seen with Reach and ODST, people don’t necessarily mind playing as non-Chief characters. And adding more Chief doesn’t do anything to address the lack of development for the rest of Blue Team or Fireteam Osiris. If anything, 343 is probably just going to either get rid of the two teams (drastic method) or simply make certain characters from either team playable (more reasonable).
> >
> > How they were surprised that people would have wanted more Chief is beyond me though. Remember when Mike Colter said his character, Locke, was the main hero of the game and then Frankie had to “clarify” that Chief was still the main hero? He pretty much lied there and kept up the expectation that the Blue Team and Osiris would have more or less an equal number of missions. Was that also a problem in fan expectations? Yes, but it was one 343 didn’t do anything to address until they already had our money.
>
> Yes, lots of people were upset that the Chief wasn’t the primary focus in a Halo main series title.
> Although the criticism might have been more muted if the H5 story wasn’t such a generic, uninspiring, disjointed, nonsensical, bland affair.
> Creative writing can make a compelling storyline out of basically any idea, no matter how generic or common. H5 Ideas were not bad, it was the execution.
> Admitting mistakes outright can be hard for any company - there is a bottom line and shareholders to satisfy and saying “We done goofed this right up, yo” followed by a list of the major complaints would have consequences. I am more hopeful for the future simply because it seems that 343 are really taking their time on H6. Not overly hopeful. Just a bit.

I don’t know, I’d say a good chunk of the ideas were bad. Starting the game with no connection to the last one? Bad. Upending the emotional impact of Cortana’s death in Halo 4 to make her the bad guy just because? Bad. Making the final death kneel of the Covenant (at least on Sanghelios) a footnote to the Created conflict? Bad. The Warden Eternal? Oh, so bad.

Granted, as you said saying ideas were bad or executed poorly likely isn’t going to happen with shareholders to please. But if 343 is going to make excuses for things they do talk about or try to deflect blame, then that is what they will be judged on. And considering Frabkie’s sad attempt to label critics of Cortana’s portrayal in Halo 5 as kids who don’t know “subtlety and nuance” I’m not feeling all that sympathetic.

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> > > 2533274812652989;11:
> > > > 2535469324078285;5:
> > > > > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > > > 343 seems to have an idea of what people are upset about, but are coming away with results that miss the forest for the trees.
> > > >
> > > > Now that is something I would love to hear more about. Please, elaborate.
>
> I don’t know, I’d say a good chunk of the ideas were bad. Starting the game with no connection to the last one? Bad. Upending the emotional impact of Cortana’s death in Halo 4 to make her the bad guy just because? Bad. Making the final death kneel of the Covenant (at least on Sanghelios) a footnote to the Created conflict? Bad. The Warden Eternal? Oh, so bad.
>
> Granted, as you said saying ideas were bad or executed poorly likely isn’t going to happen with shareholders to please. But if 343 is going to make excuses for things they do talk about or try to deflect blame, then that is what they will be judged on. And considering Frabkie’s sad attempt to label critics of Cortana’s portrayal in Halo 5 as kids who don’t know “subtlety and nuance” I’m not feeling all that sympathetic.

I’m definitely going to agree that the ideas they used were odd choices which had no obvious flow from the previous games but still, imagine if the characters had been well written to the point where we could identify and sympathise with them. (I mean even Buck was a damp squib, Buck for crying out loud!). Bungies games have plenty of inconsistencies and odd choices but they work because we care about the *characters.*So I hope 343 get the feedback that the stories must have compelling characters regardless of the direction of the plot.