Devil's Advocate: Tartarus

Community Halo Universe
1

I saw someone who did one on Gravemind so I will do one on Tartarus.

Think about it, Tartarus must have been annoyed with the Elites and for good reason. For hundreds of years the Brutes were always treated as a lesser species and were usually called stupid because of their attitude, and when they got the chance to break free of their unfair treatment they let loose on the Elites, wouldn’t you if you were treated badly by them for centuries.

Another thing, Thel 'Vadam was accused of heresy but he was then promoted and was ranked even higher than Tartarus and he had commited no treason but someone who had let one of the Sacred rings fall to the humans was allowed to be promoted.

When the brutes got a well deserved promotion from the Prophets since one of the High Prophets was lost because of the Elites, the Elites then left the Covenant. The Brutes never left the Covenant when times were hard but as soon as the Brutes were promoted they left.

Lastly, Tartarus was just listening to orders put by Truth. He may have not wanted to kill the Arbiter but he was told to and if he didn’t accept his orders he would have been killed himself. And he was told to activate Halo he did because he had to obey them. Many people would probably say that he should have listened to 343 Guilty Spark when he was told to but if you think about why should he? Tartarus was probably tired of all the pathetic excuses from the Elites and slowing down the Great Journey which he was taught to believe.

2

Hundreds of years? Last I checked the Jiralhanae weren’t part of the Covenant til 2492.

3

oh ok sorry I haven’t finished reading all the books

4

Brutes achieved space-faring status, then nuked themselves back to the stone-age. They suck more than we do.

5

> I saw someone who did one on Gravemind so I will do one on Tartarus.
>
> Think about it, Tartarus must have been annoyed with the Elites and for good reason. For hundreds of years the Brutes were always treated as a lesser species and were usually called stupid because of their attitude, and when they got the chance to break free of their unfair treatment they let loose on the Elites, wouldn’t you if you were treated badly by them for centuries.

Yeah, the Elites did go to great lengths to keep the Brutes at a lower status in the Covenant, and I’m sure that didn’t help relations between the two species, but the Brutes largely brought it on themselves. As mentioned, the Brutes frequently fought amongst themselves and everytime their technology advanced to new heights they subsequently fell even further due to the abuse of said technology and its use in warfare.

They weren’t above attacks on other Covenant races when it suited them either, and the novel The Cole Protocol actually includes a Brute attack on an Elite ship, years before the events of Halo 2.

> When the brutes got a well deserved promotion from the Prophets since one of the High Prophets was lost because of the Elites, the Elites then left the Covenant. The Brutes never left the Covenant when times were hard but as soon as the Brutes were promoted they left.

The Elites didn’t simply leave the Covenant because times were hard and the Brutes’ status had been elevated. They were forced out when the Brutes violently and unexpectedly rose up against them on the Prophets’ orders. They didn’t exactly have a choice.

> Lastly, Tartarus was just listening to orders put by Truth. He may have not wanted to kill the Arbiter but he was told to and if he didn’t accept his orders he would have been killed himself.

Earlier in the game, when Tartarus confronts the Arbiter just after securing the Index, he says “a bloody fate awaits you and the rest of your incompetent race, and I, Tartarus, Chieftain of the Brutes will send you to it”. Truth may have been the one to order the killing of the Arbiter, but Tartarus certainly didn’t seem to have a problem with it. He made little attempt to hide his disdain of the Elites throughout the story.

I don’t think Tartarus was just evil for the sake of evil. He devoutly adhered to the idea of the Great Journey and likely truly believed he was doing the right thing. But regardless, he’s still not a particularly sympathetic character.

6

> I saw someone who did one on Gravemind so I will do one on Tartarus.
>
> Think about it, Tartarus must have been annoyed with the Elites and for good reason. For hundreds of years the Brutes were always treated as a lesser species and were usually called stupid because of their attitude, and when they got the chance to break free of their unfair treatment they let loose on the Elites, wouldn’t you if you were treated badly by them for centuries.
>
> Another thing, Thel 'Vadam was accused of heresy but he was then promoted and was ranked even higher than Tartarus and he had commited no treason but someone who had let one of the Sacred rings fall to the humans was allowed to be promoted.
>
> When the brutes got a well deserved promotion from the Prophets since one of the High Prophets was lost because of the Elites, the Elites then left the Covenant. The Brutes never left the Covenant when times were hard but as soon as the Brutes were promoted they left.
>
> Lastly, Tartarus was just listening to orders put by Truth. He may have not wanted to kill the Arbiter but he was told to and if he didn’t accept his orders he would have been killed himself. And he was told to activate Halo he did because he had to obey them. Many people would probably say that he should have listened to 343 Guilty Spark when he was told to but if you think about why should he? Tartarus was probably tired of all the pathetic excuses from the Elites and slowing down the Great Journey which he was taught to believe.

So many things here that are not defendable in the least.

While Brutes were a species that held honor in high regard, just like the Elites, their culture never never advanced past a tribal stage, at least in regards to after they bombed themselves back to a pre-industrial state. Their means of advancement were extremely violent, as evidenced both in Stomping on the Heels of a fuss and Contact Harvest. They were also fairly easy to manipulate due to the blind devotion they gave to those they followed. Because of the blind devotion that the Brutes had in the Great Journey, it is incredibly doubtful that they ever would have listened, much less actually accept the true purpose of the Halo array and that their religion was a farce.

Thel was also not promoted, as the rank of Arbiter had long stopped being a rank of honor. For all intents and purposes, he was given the death sentence that the High Council wanted, albeit delayed due to his ability as a warrior. Also as mentioned already in the thread, the Elites left because they were outright betrayed by Truth.

Tartarus may have been listening to orders, but he would have gladly murdered and killed any Elite he felt like at his own whims. Following orders has also stopped being an acceptable excuse for anyone in a military organization doing anything that would be considered a war crime, ie: genocide, since the Nuremburg trials.

7

Yea, as everyone else has said the Elites were right to try and keep the Brutes in low positions of power, they simply weren’t fit to lead a galaxy spanning military, sure it had to do with the Elite’s sense of honor but there is also the fact that the Brute’s would just as likely destroy themselves as there enemy, which ironically they did I think, I believe in Halo: Evolutions it is said that the Elite-Brute war ends because the Brutes begin to kill each other. The Brutes were physically stronger then Elites but their intelligence and tactics would not do a military well which we even see in Halo 3 where half-jaws fleet beats the Brute fleet with 3 to 1 odds going against them. The Elite’s were more deserving of the power that they gained(at the start of the Covenant itself) and while the Brutes had been put down, it wasn’t due to some petty fear the Elites had, it was due to the fact that they believed(and were right) the Brutes were inferior.

8

> Yea, as everyone else has said the Elites were right to try and keep the Brutes in low positions of power, they simply weren’t fit to lead a galaxy spanning military, sure it had to do with the Elite’s sense of honor but there is also the fact that the Brute’s would just as likely destroy themselves as there enemy, which ironically they did I think, I believe in Halo: Evolutions it is said that the Elite-Brute war ends because the Brutes begin to kill each other. The Brutes were physically stronger then Elites but their intelligence and tactics would not do a military well which we even see in Halo 3 where half-jaws fleet beats the Brute fleet with 3 to 1 odds going against them. The Elite’s were more deserving of the power that they gained(at the start of the Covenant itself) and while the Brutes had been put down, it wasn’t due to some petty fear the Elites had, it was due to the fact that they believed(and were right) the Brutes were inferior.

I wouldnt call the Brutes inferior. They were obviously not ready to be a space faring species as they would have to advance to the point where they would have to have something of a common culture and be united as a people before they could ever be ready to interact with the rest of the interplanetary community at large.

Considering they bombed themselves back to a pre-industrial level of technology once and hardly changed for the better in the process of regaining their technological sophistication, I wouldnt be surprised if they fell into a cycle where they would build up to at least to Tier 4 before destroying themselves again and again until either they either improved as a species or drive themselves into extinction.

9

> > I saw someone who did one on Gravemind so I will do one on Tartarus.
> >
> > Think about it, Tartarus must have been annoyed with the Elites and for good reason. For hundreds of years the Brutes were always treated as a lesser species and were usually called stupid because of their attitude, and when they got the chance to break free of their unfair treatment they let loose on the Elites, wouldn’t you if you were treated badly by them for centuries.
> >
> > Another thing, Thel 'Vadam was accused of heresy but he was then promoted and was ranked even higher than Tartarus and he had commited no treason but someone who had let one of the Sacred rings fall to the humans was allowed to be promoted.
> >
> > When the brutes got a well deserved promotion from the Prophets since one of the High Prophets was lost because of the Elites, the Elites then left the Covenant. The Brutes never left the Covenant when times were hard but as soon as the Brutes were promoted they left.
> >
> > Lastly, Tartarus was just listening to orders put by Truth. He may have not wanted to kill the Arbiter but he was told to and if he didn’t accept his orders he would have been killed himself. And he was told to activate Halo he did because he had to obey them. Many people would probably say that he should have listened to 343 Guilty Spark when he was told to but if you think about why should he? Tartarus was probably tired of all the pathetic excuses from the Elites and slowing down the Great Journey which he was taught to believe.
>
> So many things here that are not defendable in the least.
>
> While Brutes were a species that held honor in high regard, just like the Elites, their culture never never advanced past a tribal stage, at least in regards to after they bombed themselves back to a pre-industrial state. Their means of advancement were extremely violent, as evidenced both in Stomping on the Heels of a fuss and Contact Harvest. They were also fairly easy to manipulate due to the blind devotion they gave to those they followed. Because of the blind devotion that the Brutes had in the Great Journey, it is incredibly doubtful that they ever would have listened, much less actually accept the true purpose of the Halo array and that their religion was a farce.
>
> Thel was also not promoted, as the rank of Arbiter had long stopped being a rank of honor. For all intents and purposes, he was given the death sentence that the High Council wanted, albeit delayed due to his ability as a warrior. Also as mentioned already in the thread, the Elites left because they were outright betrayed by Truth.
>
> Tartarus may have been listening to orders, but he would have gladly murdered and killed any Elite he felt like at his own whims. Following orders has also stopped being an acceptable excuse for anyone in a military organization doing anything that would be considered a war crime, ie: genocide, since the Nuremburg trials.

I do understand that the Elites left because Truth betrayed them but many of the Brutes didn’t see it as betrayal rather as cowardice.

Yes Thel may have not been promoted but he was in a sense given a second chance when he did the most heinous of crimes. Which is why Tartarus didn’t see that as fair.

I know Tartarus may have enjoyed the kill but Thel did stall the Great Journey which the Covenant had wanted for many years, wouldn’t you if you had tried to achieve something your whole life only to be stalled by a meddler.

10

> > > I saw someone who did one on Gravemind so I will do one on Tartarus.
> > >
> > > Think about it, Tartarus must have been annoyed with the Elites and for good reason. For hundreds of years the Brutes were always treated as a lesser species and were usually called stupid because of their attitude, and when they got the chance to break free of their unfair treatment they let loose on the Elites, wouldn’t you if you were treated badly by them for centuries.
> > >
> > > Another thing, Thel 'Vadam was accused of heresy but he was then promoted and was ranked even higher than Tartarus and he had commited no treason but someone who had let one of the Sacred rings fall to the humans was allowed to be promoted.
> > >
> > > When the brutes got a well deserved promotion from the Prophets since one of the High Prophets was lost because of the Elites, the Elites then left the Covenant. The Brutes never left the Covenant when times were hard but as soon as the Brutes were promoted they left.
> > >
> > > Lastly, Tartarus was just listening to orders put by Truth. He may have not wanted to kill the Arbiter but he was told to and if he didn’t accept his orders he would have been killed himself. And he was told to activate Halo he did because he had to obey them. Many people would probably say that he should have listened to 343 Guilty Spark when he was told to but if you think about why should he? Tartarus was probably tired of all the pathetic excuses from the Elites and slowing down the Great Journey which he was taught to believe.
> >
> > So many things here that are not defendable in the least.
> >
> > While Brutes were a species that held honor in high regard, just like the Elites, their culture never never advanced past a tribal stage, at least in regards to after they bombed themselves back to a pre-industrial state. Their means of advancement were extremely violent, as evidenced both in Stomping on the Heels of a fuss and Contact Harvest. They were also fairly easy to manipulate due to the blind devotion they gave to those they followed. Because of the blind devotion that the Brutes had in the Great Journey, it is incredibly doubtful that they ever would have listened, much less actually accept the true purpose of the Halo array and that their religion was a farce.
> >
> > Thel was also not promoted, as the rank of Arbiter had long stopped being a rank of honor. For all intents and purposes, he was given the death sentence that the High Council wanted, albeit delayed due to his ability as a warrior. Also as mentioned already in the thread, the Elites left because they were outright betrayed by Truth.
> >
> > Tartarus may have been listening to orders, but he would have gladly murdered and killed any Elite he felt like at his own whims. Following orders has also stopped being an acceptable excuse for anyone in a military organization doing anything that would be considered a war crime, ie: genocide, since the Nuremburg trials.
>
> I do understand that the Elites left because Truth betrayed them but many of the Brutes didn’t see it as betrayal rather as cowardice.
>
> Yes Thel may have not been promoted but he was in a sense given a second chance when he did the most heinous of crimes. Which is why Tartarus didn’t see that as fair.
>
> I know Tartarus may have enjoyed the kill but Thel did stall the Great Journey which the Covenant had wanted for many years, wouldn’t you if you had tried to achieve something your whole life only to be stalled by a meddler.

It doesnt matter how the Brutes saw it. We know that it was a straight up betrayal that had been in the works for the better part of 20 years minimum. So what if the Brutes saw it as cowardice. They were too stupid to realize they were being used to begin with.

Also being made an Arbiter is hardly getting a second chance. It is supposed to be a death sentence to begin with. Arbiters are sent on suicide missions where they are expected to die. The fact that Thel managed to stay alive, even after Truth set his plans to bring the Brutes into power just shows how skilled he was as a warrior.

The only point that we can agree on is that Tartarus would have seen Thel’s interference at the control room for Installation 05, and that is only just because the Brutes as whole were religious zealots who wouldnt listen to reason even if there was cold hard evidence put right in front of them to show their religion was a sham.