DERf (designated everything rifle) REDESIGN

I want to open by saying I really do like the feel of Halo 4 and enjoy playing it often.

However, after checking hit boxes and auto-aiming, it’s clear that the DMR needs a bit of tweaking. It has the fastest kill time (aside from scoped LR) and dominates the battlefield consistently.

Why, you ask?

Because every shot is a first shot. The DMR’s semi-slow pace allows one single shot to be lined up consistently. The BR’s burst requires at least a bit of tracking, same with LR (scoped LR suffers too much from flinching and NO bullet magnetism). Carbine has a high rate of fire, but, because it takes so many shots to kill, it can be easily strafed. Every other weapon has burst (I count the Carbine’s fast pace as burst); therefore, they all suffer extreme loss to twitch. The DMR has the PERFECT pace to out-preform all other rifles in a twitch environment; just enough time to realign single shots but still more deadly than other precision weapons.

6 SHOT KILL OR PACE EXTENSION

Instead, the DMR either needs 5 shots to pop shields (which would make more sense), or it needs it’s pace extended. To be honest, the BR/Carbine should be dominating the 4v4 arena. I’ve seen some teams make BR/Carbine work occasionally, but more often than not the team with the most DMRs wins. I’ve even seen the DMR outperform the AR close range. The DMR needs to live between the sniper and the BR, not be the one weapon to rule them all and in the darkness bind them…

ADDING BLOOM IS NOT THE ANSWER!

Bloom may help on Ragnarok, but that’s the type of map the DMR should dominate. What the DMR shouldn’t dominate is Haven and Adrift. Bloom won’t do much to dampen it’s effectiveness on 4v4 maps because your entire reticle is (or should be) full at such close ranges.

EDIT: Bloom may be an answer?

Check out this video of a medium range weapon test of the Reach DMR. The kill time with ZB is 1.6 sec. (5 shots), but with bloom, it’s about 2.7 sec. (about 8 shots). This did dampen the weapon at medium range, but I feel its effectiveness would be crushed at long range in comparison to the BR/LR if this bloom returned. Maybe the long-range inconsistency of the BR’s burst would compensate for time lost waiting for bloom? This still wouldn’t balance the DMR’s changes with the LR(S)'s 4SK. I also didn’t like that spamming could maybe get a headshot over waiting for bloom to recede; too much RNG for my preference. I’d much rather see a 6 shot or pace reduction; keep the accuracy but simply increase the kill time.

Thanks to Darches for making me look into the Bloom a bit more…

NEITHER IS BUFFING OTHER WEAPONS!

Buffing the other weapons isn’t the answer either; this isn’t COD. By that, I mean the maps are not set up for players to be killed quickly. There are long lines of sight, little cover, and PLAYERS ARE FORCED PRIMARY COLORS. There is no gilly suit and the UAV is always up. This isn’t the place for brainlessly fast kills; this is the place for planning 3 steps ahead…

Idk if I’m missing something or not, but how does the DMR have the longest time to kill when the BR shoots slower and does the same amount of damage? I know that on the 5th BR shot to the head, it’s the 1st of the 3 bullets that kills but that couldn’t make up for the slower fire rate.

I often switch between the BR and the DMR and really the only difference I notice is that the BR seems to be more effective on smaller maps and the DMR’s reticle is less “busy” — IE, it’s easier to see what you’re shooting at with the DMR vs the BR.

> …how does the DMR have the longest time to kill when the BR shoots slower and does the same amount of damage?

You know, I had the “time per kill” doc linked to me by a friend. You make a good point, so I’ll test it to make sure it’s accurate. If it’s not and the DMR has a faster kill time than I thought, it will just support my point even further…

However, I was in the game for testing auto-aim/hitboxes and can verify the accuracy of the link…

UPDATE:
I have found this video displaying all precision weapon kill times and the DMR outpaces the BR/LR by 0.2+ seconds and the Carbine by 0.3+ seconds. Thanks for prompting me to look into the times. I think my original link was the first look at weapon pace, but it has been overturned…

I agree that the DMR needs re-balancing. People can throw numbers and timings around all they want; lowering the magazine size by one bullet (to 14 from Reach’s 15) does not magically solve the problem. The rifle is still fabulously over-efficient at all ranges, which is odd, because 343 intended to make the DMR a strictly long-range weapon. Then again, they also said “no more purple” in the early stages of Halo 4’s exposure. Go figure.

I’d say ever-so-slightly decrease its attack speed; forcing a sixth shot is too much, especially with the 2 tenths of a second difference in pacing.

I’m also surprised that 343 introduced bullet flinching and removed the descoping which had worked well in previous games.

Oh, and I liked the LOTR reference by the way :wink: way to sneak that one in there.

Im fine with its current damage, I simply beleive its the RoF that its the kicker. Its almost as fast as a BR, and because of this it can gank a BR/AR at medium range and yet still excel at long>extreme ranges.

Lower RoF by a fraction means that in medium/short range BR/AR will have the upper hand as they should and still leave the DMR as the long range weapon of choice. This also has the effect of bringing the LR back in to line as the middle ground between the DMR/BR as its intended to be.

DMR is OP y’all.

The bloom worked in Reach and it would work in Halo 4. Wasn’t the insane bloom what made the DMR so unique? I loved the Reach DMR and it always killed slower, that’s an undisputable fact. The gun has already been proven to work well, just make it like it was before. And of course, increasing the bloom enough would decrease the effective rate of fire, even at close range.

The issue is this DMR has like no bloom at all!

In case you forgot, the Reach bloom went PAST the larger reticule. I think the only purpose of that 2nd reticule was to make the player more aware of where they were aiming. With only the smaller reticule for the 1st shot, you’d need better eyes…

Reach DMR is already tested, and it does kill significantly slower even at close range. I’ve played Reach for months and when I went back oh MAN the DMR felt different.

These guns are not the same, just bring back the old version that we KNOW isn’t OP.

My post is logically sound, and it looks fabulous!

If you see a problem here, then speak up! Let me taste your rebuttal!

BTW fabulous is not a problem lol. I just think the colors make things easier/more fun to read :smiley:

Lower DMR RoF
Re-introduce de-scope for all.
Reduce aimbot for all.

the dmr is perfect, if it gets nerfed, the game will be ‘ruined’, and the dmr will be useless, it’s equal to the other weapons, there’s a reason it’s called mid to long range and the dmr short to mid, etc… nuff said

I’m not very familiar with the thoughts of the Reach community, but does anyone have a synopsis on how the previous DMR was viewed? I always assumed everyone thought it was perfectly balanced, because that’s how it seemed to me. And I really trust my opinion that much. No DMR kill EVER felt cheap in Reach. Not one… and I played it recently and can guarantee that it DOES indeed kill slower than the current incarnation.

> I’m not very familiar with the thoughts of the Reach community, but does anyone have a synopsis on how the previous DMR was viewed? I always assumed everyone thought it was perfectly balanced, because that’s how it seemed to me. And I really trust my opinion that much. No DMR kill EVER felt cheap in Reach. Not one… and I played it recently and can guarantee that it DOES indeed kill slower than the current incarnation.

how does that matter, why would you compare a weapon IN HALO REACH to a wep in HALO 4, it’s 2 different games, and how can you tell if it’s balanced or whatever in reach, bloom -Yoinked!- up everything

While I am glad OP is at least civilized in how he expresses his opinion, I really don’t get the mindset of a lot of the complainers.

Lets put it this way:

H3: BR dominates everything, clearly is overpowered compared to all other “regular” weapons. But this is apparantly fine.

Reach: DMR is bashed because it is not precise enough due to bloom. Community demands no more bloom so that the DMR can be uber precise and every shot is on target.

H4: DMR is exactly how people were demanding it to be for 2 years…but now suddenly it is overpowered because it too precise and dominates “all” other weapons…just like the H3 BR did (but somehow that was perfect?)

> While I am glad OP is at least civilized in how he expresses his opinion, I really don’t get the mindset of a lot of the complainers.
>
> Lets put it this way:
>
> H3: BR dominates everything, clearly is overpowered compared to all other “regular” weapons. But this is apparantly fine.
>
> Reach: DMR is bashed because it is not precise enough due to bloom. Community demands no more bloom so that the DMR can be uber precise and every shot is on target.
>
> H4: DMR is exactly how people were demanding it to be for 2 years…but now suddenly it is overpowered because it too precise and dominates “all” other weapons…just like the H3 BR did (but somehow that was perfect?)

The BR in Halo 3 actually took a fair amount of skill, especially in a game with NO lag what’s so ever. The BR in Halo 3 also did NOT have the godly range that the DMR has in Halo 4. The BR was never capable of destroying BTB maps, cross mapping with it was so much harder than it is with the DMR.

The DMR has the best of everything, and takes very little skill to master.

-Low Recoil
-Great Ammo count
-Superb at long Range, very good at Short range, capable of beating the BR with little effort.
-High accuracy and precision

And to top it all off with a massive fat Cherry.

Godly amounts of Bullet Magnetism.

Have you tried the DMR with Damage Boost? It’s a 3 shot kill, but retains it’s effectiveness it has in all fields. Easiest Killing Frenzy I have ever achieved.

The DMR is overpowered

Sincerely
-A DMR and BR user.

People are blowing the power of the DMR way out of preportion. the auto aim/aim assist is a tad bit over with all UNSC weapons. And actually out of all the unsc weaponry the detatched turret has the most aim assist/auto aim. But everyone that “tests” these are playing in a private match or on the same console. where lag is not a factor. When lag is a factor the “huge amount” is much smaller. i almost never get those kills you see in the video in game.

It shows how bad weapons could be in perfect conditions. which MP is almost never in perfect conditions. Lastly the DMR feels “op” because most maps (in btb atleast) there is little to know cover. The weapon is a mini sniper. it was designed to be. We don’t need to nerf the DMR we need better maps.

dmr doesn’t need any nerfing, they are not going to destroy their game because some kids think that the dmr is OP

> People are blowing the power of the DMR way out of preportion. the auto aim/aim assist is a tad bit over with all UNSC weapons. And actually out of all the unsc weaponry the detatched turret has the most aim assist/auto aim. But everyone that “tests” these are playing in a private match or on the same console. where lag is not a factor. When lag is a factor the “huge amount” is much smaller. i almost never get those kills you see in the video in game.
>
> It shows how bad weapons could be in perfect conditions. which MP is almost never in perfect conditions. Lastly the DMR feels “op” because most maps (in btb atleast) there is little to know cover. The weapon is a mini sniper. it was designed to be. We don’t need to nerf the DMR we need better maps.

Latency actually makes the Bullet Magnetism WORSE, I’ve gotten a fair share of kills where I’ve gone “uhm wtf I didn’t even mean to kill him?” These situations are usually when I’m shooting someone then I strafe to cover but apparently as I’m strafing my last shot, despite not even aiming at my opponent, I killed him.

> how does that matter, why would you compare a weapon IN HALO REACH to a wep in HALO 4, it’s 2 different games

I compared them to see what the difference was, dummy. What makes the Reach DMR so much more favorable, and more importantly, why does it kill so much slower at any distance?

The answer was found to be the BLOOM. The bloom was just SO massive in Reach that it lowered the weapon’s effective rate of fire.

All people seem to want is a slower killing DMR, and the Halo: Reach DMR fits that role PERFECTLY.

There’s no reason to stumble in the darkness when the solution is in front of our eyes! When I talk of stumbling, I talk of anyone who doesn’t see the logic after any thought. I should hope most people on this forum are at least 18 and have a high school diploma…

Halo 4 DMR kill time = 1.53 seconds
Halo 3 BR (4 shot kill) kill time = 1.53 seconds

It’s funny, People complained about the BR being overpowered back when it was a power weapon pick up. Now we have a weapon that kills just as fast, is more consistent, has double the range and is a starting weapon superior to all other starting weapons it is supposedly been balanced against.