Delay for another year! Don't let this slide DEVS!

Games Halo Infinite
74

> 2535450512492960;1:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I’m a game developer and I use to work as a backend dev. I’d like to ask this to reach the devs if possible.
>
> Please delay the game for at least 1 year, don’t let project managers and Microsoft to let this flop.
>
> It needs a campaign co-op.
> it needs forge.
> it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
>
> If everything is finished before 12 months, just make sure to improve the details.
>
> This is how GTA V made it (working for almost a year on details), it didn’t launch with stuff missing until it was gold.
> Don’t cyberpunk2077 this, finish the fight.

It needs funding, so that those things can come to fruition. do you think they WANT to shove the game out the door, without forge, without co-op, without the classic playlist? no. of course not, they want this game to be as good as possible on launch. but microsoft has sunk 500 M I L L I O N dollars into this game. 343 have to appease shareholders and microsoft, or they’re gonna get the Axe.

75

> 2533274793006817;70:
> Less people play all the way to the end than play co-op.

Interesting stat.

Do you have a link to source and does it break it down any further?

Like… what numbers are we talking. Does it include people who have already played through, say on Normal, but then go for it on Legendary but have to bail because they are out of their depth. How many people play co-op but don’t go all the way to the end (that would be me - occasionally playing a random level with mates). How many started solo… but then caught up with mates at some stage to do a few levels in co-op - but were actually more than happy to finish solo and do it with mates later (like, say 3 months later).

76

> 2535452600377495;71:
> > 2533274813317074;43:
> > > 2592250499819446;42:
> > > … they stated after Halo 5 no Halo game would launch without co-op… Yet here we are again, another Halo without core features of co-op and forge at launch.
> >
> > That statement was about splitscreen support in Halo, not co-op, in which splitscreen for consoles will be there.
>
> Im so confused. I thought splitscreen campaign was confirmed delayed. I think multiplayer splitscreen might still be available. Genuinely asking, I might be reading this wrong

There is no split screen campaign co-op at launch, only split screen multiplayer. Co-op campaign will be added three months after launch.

77

> 2585548714655118;75:
> > 2533274793006817;70:
> > Less people play all the way to the end than play co-op.
>
> Interesting stat.
>
> Do you have a link to source and does it break it down any further?
>
> Like… what numbers are we talking. Does it include people who have already played through, say on Normal, but then go for it on Legendary but have to bail because they are out of their depth. How many people play co-op but don’t go all the way to the end (that would be me - occasionally playing a random level with mates). How many started solo… but then caught up with mates at some stage to do a few levels in co-op - but were actually more than happy to finish solo and do it with mates later (like, say 3 months later).

It’s been true forever in most every game and it’s people who have ever beat it not start a new play through or change difficulty.

the fact is the game is going to be spoiled for co-op players unless they can play it day one. If someone spoiled the entire campaign and people flooded theses forums and youtube with constant playthroughs, and discussions a lot of people would be upset. It’s the same thing here.

78

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535450512492960;1:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I’m a game developer and I use to work as a backend dev. I’d like to ask this to reach the devs if possible.
>
> Please delay the game for at least 1 year, don’t let project managers and Microsoft to let this flop.
>
> It needs a campaign co-op.
> it needs forge.
> it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
>
> If everything is finished before 12 months, just make sure to improve the details.
>
> This is how GTA V made it (working for almost a year on details), it didn’t launch with stuff missing until it was gold.
> Don’t cyberpunk2077 this, finish the fight.

LoL.

no.

79

Bit of a pointless thread as they will not delay the game for one internet person’s request. It’ll still come out on Dec 8, in whatever state it’ll be in by then. I bet there will be issues at launch and a Day 1 Patch as is the way of things nowadays in the world of modern gaming.

80

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535450512492960;1:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I’m a game developer and I use to work as a backend dev. I’d like to ask this to reach the devs if possible.
>
> Please delay the game for at least 1 year, don’t let project managers and Microsoft to let this flop.
>
> It needs a campaign co-op.
> it needs forge.
> it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
>
> If everything is finished before 12 months, just make sure to improve the details.
>
> This is how GTA V made it (working for almost a year on details), it didn’t launch with stuff missing until it was gold.
> Don’t cyberpunk2077 this, finish the fight.

Huh, No karen. Now run along play MCC.

81

r/unpopularopinion

82

If you were a dev, then u would know that delays on top of delays cause parts of the game to be re done by other people , new people and you start getting spaghetti code. Cyberpunk can tell you all about this lol. you just generate more bugs, and issues the longer the delays go on tbh.
Then you have the fact the games already been delayed enough as it is, the more delays the more people stop giving a -Yoink- anymore.

They picked the lesser of two evils tbh, and i think even though its sad we wont get coop and forge at launch , the game will be out, be worked on and it will overcome those missing things. It needs to release at this point, b4 people give up on it. If they are 1000% focused on getting sp campaign and mp to work then we should still have a great launch.

83

> 2592250499819446;76:
> > 2535452600377495;71:
> > > 2533274813317074;43:
> > > > 2592250499819446;42:
> > > > … they stated after Halo 5 no Halo game would launch without co-op… Yet here we are again, another Halo without core features of co-op and forge at launch.
> > >
> > > That statement was about splitscreen support in Halo, not co-op, in which splitscreen for consoles will be there.
> >
> > Im so confused. I thought splitscreen campaign was confirmed delayed. I think multiplayer splitscreen might still be available. Genuinely asking, I might be reading this wrong
>
> There is no split screen campaign co-op at launch, only split screen multiplayer. Co-op campaign will be added three months after launch.

Thats what I thought but the previous post confused me a bit. Thanks

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> 2533274937869264;69:
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> > > 2533274937869264;61:
> > > > 2585548714655118;41:
> > > > > 2533274937869264;25:
> > > > > > 2585548714655118;17:
> > > > > > > 2535450512492960;1:
> > > > > > > It needs a campaign co-op.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not really. It’s a bonus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2535450512492960;1:
> > > > > > > it needs forge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It does need Forge… and I’m gutted it’s being delayed. But it’s not enough to delay (again).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2535450512492960;1:
> > > > > > > it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the love of God no. Infinite needs to be it’s own beast.
> > > > >
> > > > > I find it funny that all of the bungie games that launched with some or all of these features went on to have healthy life cycles, yet none of the ones that 343 released did and you want 343 to repeat the same mistakes lol
> > > >
> > > > It’s even funnier when people support their argument by picking random data points and assuming causality.
> > >
> > > 343 has deliberately catered to new fans over old fans 3 times now
> >
> > proceeds to look at the entire art direction change, the back pedal from the created story line, the reduction of spartan abilties, the increase in equipment and so on…
> >
> > Yep, they def went, screw the classic fans, lets do all these things that they would be in favor of for the sake of new fans.
>
> Art direction change is a massive plus, although they are really slapping us in the face with those fracture armors. So we spent those last few years begging for the armor to go back for what? The back pedal from the created story line is their own fault… not sure how thats a point… And notice how you said the “reduction” of spartan abilities and not the “elimination” of spartan abilities. I guess halo 5 fans who liked those features are -Yoink- out of luck and so are veteran fans who don’t want any of them whatsoever lol. Increase of equipment is a massive plus and its about time they’re back, but if we use your logic they aren’t core features and shouldn’t have spent time putting them in :wink: Although, again I do agree with you here.
>
> And yes, they are still catering to the new fans in more ways than their veteran fans. This is pretty obvious. Free to play, open world, teen rating, lack of classic features, implementation of non classic features, etc. But I was also referring to their older games as well such as halo 4, mcc, and halo 5.

ah, your one of those my way or the highway communityi members that generalizes views into massive groups without realizing a majority of players dont fit either “veteran” or “new” player stereotype you have defined in your head.

From what ive seen across MULTIPLE forums (not just waypoint) twitter, youtube etc, all the changes made (outside of the lack of coop and forge at launch and the challenge xp) are in favor for. You put too much weight into how much people actually care about the little things. A rated T rating doesnt mean anything to most people. Fracture Armor does not mean anything to most people (including Halo players). The adjustment or inclusion of non classic features does mean anything negatively to most people (side rant, every sequal needs to add new features or adjust old ones, its ridiculous not too).

My point is your actively ignoring a ton of catering to old fans that 343 has done. Just about everything marketing related, art design related, music related, story structure related is ALL nestalgia bait for old fans. They have done very little that actually goes against old fan wishes. Old fans wanted more classic designs - check, old fans wanted sandbox focused gameplay - check. Removal or distancing from 4 and 5 characters - check, on a Halo ring - check, CE style levels (given infinite isnt actually open wold and more like ODST only without hard cuts to said levels) - check, challenge based rewards - check , removal of lootboxes - check, removal of warzone - check, increases emphasis on BTB - check, classic snake and eagle team symbols - check, removal of a majority of spartan abilities - check, nerfed sprint to the ground - check, changed radar back to classic radar - check, went to a more classic style of Halo music - check.

What have they done for new players? Made it free to play (cause I guess veterans hate this?) - check, removed red v blue and replaced it with outlines - check, kept sprint (though again, a severely nerfed one)- check, kept clamber - check, fracture armor to allow for some more none canon looks - check

To be honest, I am struggling for the rest in which its catering to new fans more.

85

> 2585548714655118;75:
> > 2533274793006817;70:
> > Less people play all the way to the end than play co-op.
>
> Interesting stat.
>
> Do you have a link to source and does it break it down any further?

Halo MCC Achievement stats:

  • Complete any co-op level on Normal difficulty: 27.87% - Halo CE: Complete every level of the game on Easy difficulty: 10.21% - Halo 2: Complete every level of the game on Easy difficulty: 8.23% - Halo 3: Complete every level of the game on Easy difficulty: 8.82% - Halo 4: Complete every level of the game on Easy difficulty: 6.47% - H3: ODST: Complete every level of the game on Easy difficulty: 4.26% - Halo: Reach: Complete every level of the game on Easy difficulty: 7.12%Unfortunately none of the other games have comparable Achievements as far as I can tell. There are no Achievements for completing the campaign on easy, nor are there for completing any co-op level independent of difficulty (if there are any co-op achievements at all).
    H5G for example has these two:
  • Completey every Mission of the game on Normal difficulty: 22.32% - Completed any co-op Mission on Heroic difficulty: 7.62%
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> 2533274840624875;84:
> > 2533274937869264;69:
> > > 2533274840624875;67:
> > > > 2533274937869264;61:
> > > > > 2585548714655118;41:
> > > > > > 2533274937869264;25:
> > > > > > > 2585548714655118;17:
> > > > > > > > 2535450512492960;1:
> > > > > > > > It needs a campaign co-op.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not really. It’s a bonus.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2535450512492960;1:
> > > > > > > > it needs forge.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It does need Forge… and I’m gutted it’s being delayed. But it’s not enough to delay (again).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2535450512492960;1:
> > > > > > > > it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the love of God no. Infinite needs to be it’s own beast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I find it funny that all of the bungie games that launched with some or all of these features went on to have healthy life cycles, yet none of the ones that 343 released did and you want 343 to repeat the same mistakes lol
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s even funnier when people support their argument by picking random data points and assuming causality.
> > > >
> > > > 343 has deliberately catered to new fans over old fans 3 times now
>
> ah, your one of those my way or the highway communityi members that generalizes views into massive groups without realizing a majority of players dont fit either “veteran” or “new” player stereotype you have defined in your head.
>
> From what ive seen across MULTIPLE forums (not just waypoint) twitter, youtube etc, all the changes made (outside of the lack of coop and forge at launch and the challenge xp) are in favor for. You put too much weight into how much people actually care about the little things. A rated T rating doesnt mean anything to most people. Fracture Armor does not mean anything to most people (including Halo players). The adjustment or inclusion of non classic features does mean anything negatively to most people (side rant, every sequal needs to add new features or adjust old ones, its ridiculous not too).

You say you don’t like for me to categorize people but you sure like to throw around categorical terms like “majority” and “minority” a lot :thinking: [Halo Reach Fans Will Soon Control The Franchise - YouTube](http://Categorization of Halo players made easy.) Btw this is just to show how you can categorize people and how 343 is catering to reach fans. Disclaimer: I have no idea where ascend hyperion got his halo data from and I generally do not agree with his points on the franchise but I do think this video was spot on. As for what you’ve “seen”, its irrelevant as it is relative to yourself. There either is a majority that is ok with these features, or there is not. I can claim to have “seen” the opposite; (that the majority are not ok with these features) and there is nothing you can say to prove me wrong. I would need hard evidence to prove you wrong and you vice versa to prove me wrong. BUT THE MAIN TAKEAWAY is that I am just generalizing. Of course I can’t say that all older fans like x and all newer fans like y, i’m just broadly speaking for both because it is easier that way.

Regardless of whether those things (t rating, non classic features, fracture armor) are accepted by the community as a whole or not, their inclusion as a whole is not catering to veteran fans and is catering to new fans, which is my whole point.

> My point is your actively ignoring a ton of catering to old fans that 343 has done. Just about everything marketing related, art design related, music related, story structure related is ALL nestalgia bait for old fans. They have done very little that actually goes against old fan wishes. Old fans wanted more classic designs - check, old fans wanted sandbox focused gameplay - check. Removal or distancing from 4 and 5 characters - check, on a Halo ring - check, CE style levels (given infinite isnt actually open wold and more like ODST only without hard cuts to said levels) - check, challenge based rewards - check , removal of lootboxes - check, removal of warzone - check, increases emphasis on BTB - check, classic snake and eagle team symbols - check, removal of a majority of spartan abilities - check, nerfed sprint to the ground - check, changed radar back to classic radar - check, went to a more classic style of Halo music - check.
>
> What have they done for new players? Made it free to play (cause I guess veterans hate this?) - check, removed red v blue and replaced it with outlines - check, kept sprint (though again, a severely nerfed one)- check, kept clamber - check, fracture armor to allow for some more none canon looks - check

I agree with you on one point, 343 is indeed marketing the game for older fans, but that is not the same as releasing a product for older fans**.** For just about everything you mention, there is a counter and heres why. Either 343 has implemented a feature that appeases to new fans or they are implementing something that should have been there from the moment they acquired halo and are just now fixing their mistakes. Or they are minute gameplay details that don’t really affect the game as a whole. (This is just a short list i made to help myself keep track of everything)

-Art style: Again, the art style has been changed, but what has come with that? Fracture armors. +1-1=0 gain
-Sandbox gameplay: The sandbox focused gameplay is a plus i’ll give you that. +1
-Removal of halo 4/5 roots: This could actually be seen as a step backwards, especially for newer fans who are more likely to be invested in those characters but lets just say there is no increase since older fans have received nothing +0
-CE style levels: Fair enough +1
-Challenged based rewards: I’m not sure what rewards you are talking about but im pretty sure all armors/skins are available from the season pass or exclusive offers. Last time i checked 343 hasn’t confirmed challenge based rewards.
-Removal of lootboxes: Moot point. There are still mtx that act as copouts. Plus, this is more of a negative towards everybody, not just old fans +0
-Removal of warzone: Welp, sucks for halo 5 fans lmao (and myself, i actually liked warzone). +0
-Increased emphasis on btb: +1 I guess? Not sure how this effected old fans
-Classic symbols: Minute detail +0
-Removal of spartan abilities: False. Sprint, clamber, slide are all in the game. This is something classic fans hypothetically don’t want. +0
-Nerf sprint to the ground: This is even worse. Now new fans are left thinking the sprint is useless and old fans still have to deal with it changing the gameplay. +0
-Changed the radar: Minute detail. Should have never been changed and has nothing to do with old fans. +0
-Music: +1

So do you see the general gist of what is happening here? These are all almost all features that either: should have never been changed by 343 or are just now being addressed this long into the franchise. And we haven’t even made it to the classic features that have been asked for for years that are not in the game but I am literally at the world limit for this post so please go back and read the other examples I gave.

> To be honest, I am struggling for the rest in which its catering to new fans more.

You answered this yourself:

> What have they done for new players? Made it free to play (cause I guess veterans hate this?) - check, removed red v blue and replaced it with outlines - check, kept sprint (though again, a severely nerfed one)- check, kept clamber - check, fracture armor to allow for some more none canon looks - check

I suggest you watch the ascend hyperion video. It is very insightful and also shows how 343 is catering specifically to the reach kid, which doesn’t necessarily mean classic halo fan. But overall my original point in this thread was to point out that 343 is following the same basic steps (which have yet to work) instead of following the tried and tested halo formula. They are once again trying to cater to everybody and if previous games are anything to go by, it’s going to cost infinite harshly

87

> 2585548714655118;17:
> > 2535450512492960;1:
> > It needs a campaign co-op.
>
> Not really. It’s a bonus.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535450512492960;1:
> > it needs forge.
>
> It does need Forge… and I’m gutted it’s being delayed. But it’s not enough to delay (again).
>
>
>
>
> > 2535450512492960;1:
> > it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
>
> For the love of God no. Infinite needs to be it’s own beast.

I completely disagree with this. Co-op is not a bonus. This is one of the features that made Halo CE what it was, so for it not to be there at launch for Infinite seems crazy to me. It’s too late for this, but I feel like when they realized that Campaign Co-op was not going to be ready, they should have delayed the whole campaign, and put all focus and effort into MP so that it came out as close to perfect as possible and release it on Dec. 8 by itself.

88

> 2585548714655118;73:
> > 2535433024916972;72:
> > I have another possible solution: launch the game, but remove cross play campaign coop for the time until it’s ready. don’t delay forge completely, give the community parts of it and let them give feedback to it like a flight.
> >
> > For the campaign no coop issue, not sure if it’s rendering issues like ark has in coop, or crossgen issue. If it’s cross gen just delay the cross gen, not the whole coop feature.
>
> I think the co-op issue was broken spawn points. As they increased the open-worldness… they couldn’t get spawn points to work seamlessly with the game progression (next action / cut-scene etc). So not rendering or cross-gen.
>
> As for Forge… they have already suggested that they are aiming to get a flight out soon after launch.

Have the told us what’s actually the issue? I think I’ve missed a few developer posts.

89

Hi I’m a gamer dont listen to the obvious liar who thinks his a dev lol Multiplayer and campaign is ready then ship it if they want to wait for co-op or forge then they can wait till its out.

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> 2533274801036271;35:
> Looking at MCC, only 28% of players have beaten a single mission in co-op on Normal difficulty of higher. I wonder how many played 1 or 2 missions just to get the achievements too. Wonder how many of these unlocked this after 3 months. Let’s also consider that 66% of gamers have played 10 games or 10 missions, so a good 1/3 of players seemingly game up very quickly after loading up the game. This is quite frequent with most games to see figures like that. So if we only consider the players that played 10 or more missions or games, that’s still over half of all recurrent players that didn’t play co-op at all.
>
> I am sympathetic to those that want to experience the game in co-op for the first time, but it is also the minority of people so delaying the game is not a good move to appease the majority of the fanbase if the single player is fully ready to go.

I kinda agree with this. Way too many people have little to none missions played over the MCC. I am talking about 0 at worst and 5-10 at best. Granted, some of them might be smurf accounts, I do not really know. Others, like me, prefer to play alone. Still doesn’t help that the amount of people I have seen who actually bother with the campaign (after a multiplayer match) is so low, I could probably count them on my hands.

91

> 2535452387883664;51:
> > 2535431221908268;47:
> > The game is likely going to not be very popular for longer than a year. so it doesnt matter anyway. Halo is going to die
>
> So Halo Infinite missing 2 things means it’s dead, yet Warzone has exactly one mode and is extremely popular.

I don’t think you put on enough sarcasm here. Don’t think mr. big here got the point.

92

> 2535454747525049;90:
> > 2533274801036271;35:
> > Looking at MCC, only 28% of players have beaten a single mission in co-op on Normal difficulty of higher. I wonder how many played 1 or 2 missions just to get the achievements too. Wonder how many of these unlocked this after 3 months. Let’s also consider that 66% of gamers have played 10 games or 10 missions, so a good 1/3 of players seemingly game up very quickly after loading up the game. This is quite frequent with most games to see figures like that. So if we only consider the players that played 10 or more missions or games, that’s still over half of all recurrent players that didn’t play co-op at all.
> >
> > I am sympathetic to those that want to experience the game in co-op for the first time, but it is also the minority of people so delaying the game is not a good move to appease the majority of the fanbase if the single player is fully ready to go.
>
> I kinda agree with this. Way too many people have little to none missions played over the MCC. I am talking about 0 at worst and 5-10 at best. Granted, some of them might be smurf accounts, I do not really know. Others, like me, prefer to play alone. Still doesn’t help that the amount of people I have seen who actually bother with the campaign (after a multiplayer match) is so low, I could probably count them on my hands.

Cant speak for anybody else, but I’ve already beaten all the campaigns a lot of times (cept 4&5)
And I just haven’t gotten around to bother with the campaigns again yet.
In the case of halo ce, I’ve done all iterations of it, except finish it on mcc because my brother and I kept dropping coop. Like halfway thru missions one of us would disconnect. This happened during mcc ce every other level, and a half dozen times during halo 2.
Hopefully others aren’t having the same experience :thinking::disappointed:

93

> 2535450512492960;1:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I’m a game developer and I use to work as a backend dev. I’d like to ask this to reach the devs if possible.
>
> Please delay the game for at least 1 year, don’t let project managers and Microsoft to let this flop.
>
> It needs a campaign co-op.
> it needs forge.
> it needs a ranked and social classic movement multiplayer playlist.
>
> If everything is finished before 12 months, just make sure to improve the details.
>
> This is how GTA V made it (working for almost a year on details), it didn’t launch with stuff missing until it was gold.
> Don’t cyberpunk2077 this, finish the fight.

I would rather play now and would rather play a fun single player than a broken co ops