Before you call me crazy, let me explain.
The big gripe about AR spawns in Halo was that the AR was completely useless outside close ranges, and that the BR almost always won. Reach fixed this a little by spawning with a magnum that actually does something, but regardless the AR has always been a terrible weapon.
As it stands in Halo 4, the assault rifle is a very capable and consistent weapon, and unfortunately no one uses it because you can simply choose to spawn with a BR or DMR. Unlike in previous Halo games, the AR is great for fighting players off spawn; you actually have an advantage over a BR at close ranges, and it isn’t completely inaccurate over middle ranges. The pistol also complements it very well; it doesn’t kill as fast, but it’s a good side arm for fighting off players at middle ranges. In Halo 4, spawning with an AR and pistol isn’t a bad idea at all.
The reason for spawning with ARs and pistols is that it promotes more dynamic weapon use. Spawning with precision weapons is essential for competitive play and for bigger maps, but when you just want to have fun in matchmaking and don’t want to be so competitive, using only BRs or DMRs is pretty boring. AR starts promote picking up weapons that the BR usually overshadows. For example in Halo 3, certain weapons like the brute shot, carbine, needler, and smg are rarely used in BR matches, if at all. But they are much more useful in AR starts because unlike the BR, the AR doesn’t automatically outclass all of those weapons, therefore giving them their unique place in the weapon sandbox.
That’s not to say BR starts should stop existing. Assuming Halo 5 returns to having players spawn with the same weapons, I think BR starts should be frequent. But there’s no reason not having default AR/pistol starts as well.
With AR/pistol starts, it’s not always a one gun game. I love BR starts as much as the next guy, but it really does get boring when you only use one weapon all the time. And with how the AR is pretty OP at close ranges now, you’re not going to be spending entire magazines just to take down a player’s shields anymore.
I disagree about the AR being useless, most people just don’t give it the time to practise with it. Any time a weapon appears useless because of one specific weapon it’s usually because that weapon is OP.
I’d prefer it if there was a separate playlist. I don’t like playing Slayer DMR or Slayer Pro in Reach but if they were in their own playlist and left me to play other gametypes where all weapons were used I’d be happy.
I always enjoyed using the AR, especially when combined with a marksmen weapon to be as versatile as possible.
> AR starts promote picking up weapons that the BR usually overshadows.
That’s because literally anything is better than starting with a weapon that takes over a second to kill at close range, takes over two seconds to kill at mid-range, and is useless at long-range.
You have to look at this in relatives. To the AR, even a BR is a power weapon. That makes weapons like the Sniper Rifle and Rocket Launcher into super power weapons. How is a newly-spawned player supposed to defend himself against players who have gained map and/or “super” power weapon control? This is why the original Legendary Slayer in Halo 4 failed miserably despite the buffed post-TU AR.
> Spawning with precision weapons is essential for competitive play
This isn’t a matter of competitive or noncompetitive; it’s just about maintaining balance. The reason BR starts are considered more competitive is because it is more balanced, and balanced gameplay = better gameplay.
The only way to change this is to make automatics just as useful at the same ranges as the precision weapons. The problem with making this change is that automatics would then become just easier-to-use reskins of the precision weapons, leading to less variety in the sandbox and a lower skill gap.
I think a better fix is to make automatic assault weapons into power weapons, like the SAW. They then get placed on maps. Balance is maintained and ARs are useful. (And honestly, it just makes sense for a fully-automatic assault rifle be overall better than a semi-automatic or burst fire rifle.)
You could make automatics just as hard to aim via recoil, projectile leading, etc.
Or you could keep them easy to aim with but have them be harder in some other area. The Heavy in TF2 used to have a long rev-up period that left him vulnerable, meaning players would need heightened situational awareness. Of course valve caved in but, that’s a different debate.
Anyways there’s no real reason automatics need to stay the way they are now. There’s numerous practical solutions.
Also of note is that CQC weapons will almost always be inherently disadvantaged. There’s a reason we no longer use swords, there’s also a reason shotguns are quickly falling out of favor in most military’s.
Considering halp 4 turned into Battle rifle city, I completely agree, we had so much variety options yet people just ran from the dmr pre patch and br post.
> I disagree about the AR being useless, most people just don’t give it the time to practice with it. Any time a weapon appears useless because of one specific weapon it’s usually because that weapon is OP.
>
> I’d prefer it if there was a separate playlist. I don’t like playing Slayer DMR or Slayer Pro in Reach but if they were in their own playlist and left me to play other gametypes where all weapons were used I’d be happy.
Agreed, I played a lot with the AR in Reach and I became good enough to beat dmr’s at mid range and I owned every other AR user in close range.
It all comes to practice but most rather have the BR because of its easy handling and further range.
I’ll never give up on AR/Pistol starts. There’s plenty that can be done to make each of those weapons more potent and skillful to use as starting weapons.
I think they’d have a great place on Small-sized maps, where the corridors are tight, the angles sharp, and medium-range weapons like the BR don’t have room to break.
I also like Vektor’s idea of making the AR a power weapon for on-map pickup. It’d be a radical change for Halo’s oldest weapon, but having it behave more like a SAW would be an interesting experiment.
I agree with this. H4 may have been ridiculous with weapon balancing, but at least in H4 it actually got the AR right. If they do this the right way yet again with H5 we can at least see battles where BR isn’t the only gun everyone uses so that makes the fights a little less dull.
> I disagree about the AR being useless, most people just don’t give it the time to practise with it. Any time a weapon appears useless because of one specific weapon it’s usually because that weapon is OP.
>
> I’d prefer it if there was a separate playlist. I don’t like playing Slayer DMR or Slayer Pro in Reach but if they were in their own playlist and left me to play other gametypes where all weapons were used I’d be happy.
I definitely agree. I hope all the “pro” gametypes where the BR/DMR starts are in their own little playlist for this game, that way if I don’t want to play it I don’t have to. Cause I got really sick of that in Reach.
Why not have different maps (or gametypes) get different starts?
Small maps = AR/SR starts
Big maps = BR/CC starts
> Why not have different maps (or gametypes) get different starts?
>
> Small maps = AR/SR starts
> Big maps = BR/CC starts
I’ve been saying for a while now that loadouts, if they return, should do pretty much this.
Small maps start with an auto and a sidearm.
Medium/Large maps start with a BR/CC and a sidearm or auto (I flip flop between the two).
XL maps get a revamped DMR (which is much more of a long range, far scoped single shot rifle) and maybe a BR.
Sprinkle appropriate sized vehicles around each sized map and you could have something which appeals to all crowds. If 343 continues the trend of making XL sized maps, why not better fit the starting weapons to the landscape?
This smacks of protectionism, i.e. “we must create a gametype that forces the player to use this weapon, because it’s inferior and nobody would voluntarily choose it”. Doesn’t it make more sense to make the AR a more viable weapon, so people will want to pick it up and you won’t have to force it on them off spawn?
> This smacks of protectionism, i.e. “we must create a gametype that forces the player to use this weapon, because it’s inferior and nobody would voluntarily choose it”. Doesn’t it make more sense to make the AR a more viable weapon, so people will want to pick it up and you won’t have to force it on them off spawn?
Speaking only for myself, I don’t assume the H5 AR will be the same as the H4 AR, or any other prior iteration. Each should be balanced for its respective sandbox.
The point I was trying to make with AR/Pistol starts being on small maps has more to do with map design.
Halo 4 made lots of XL maps that had lots of wide open spaces and some close quarters spaces, and it didn’t do either job very well.
If you put AR/pistol starts on smaller maps with narrower passages and short lines of site, (indoor maps, say) then you’re not protecting anything, you’re just encouraging a certain style of play. Us CQC dudes should have a place to get up close and personal without getting spammed by BRs or DMRs. Because even if the AR was improved upon in range and power, I still don’t see it beating the more versatile (and scoped) BR.
Why not just start with the SMG like in S2, nothing wrong with that. Easier weapon to use up close in combination with a melee to finish off someone. Never saw anything wrong with this in H2.
If you want games to be based off skill, you have to give room for it to shine. The current, and previous AR iterations did not do this, and that is why the precion weapons will ALWAYS be the go to starting weapons for competitive Halo. If the AR was to be skillful, I’m sure some newer ideas could take fold (Take a good look at Counter Strike, and how precise you must be even with automatic weapons)
> If you want games to be based off skill, you have to give room for it to shine. The current, and previous AR iterations did not do this, and that is why the precion weapons will ALWAYS be the go to starting weapons for competitive Halo. If the AR was to be skillful, I’m sure some newer ideas could take fold (Take a good look at Counter Strike, and how precise you must be even with automatic weapons)
I do not mind BR’s for the starting weapon. BR as the starting weapon would be best for competitive. Good times in H2. Hopefully in like Team Skirmish and BTB everyone starts with an SMG.