Debunking dumb arguments in the community for H5

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post comments that are discriminatory in nature.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Ok let’s get right in
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST
I’m gonna divide this into the two toxics
343 Fanboys
And blind haters
So after this both of them should have some clear light, hopefully merging the community together

343 Fanboys
**1:**Halo needs to evolve"
Since when?
Look at other games like TF2 which came out in 2007 and still has 67,000 players!!
But then you might say
“TF2 IS A F2P GAME”
Ok then, look at CS:GO
Which is doing outstandingly well for a 4 year old game, and hasn’t “evolved” in a slight way.
2: “It would be the same game every time, if they don’t change it.”
Um… No it won’t, and it never was
Halo 2 had online MP, halo CE didn’t
Halo 3 had forge and theater, Halo 2 didn’t
Halo reach had firefight, halo 3 didn’t
Clearly it hasn’t been the same game
3: “The req packs are the reason for free DLC”.
Actually they aren’t. The req packs where there to support the HCS prize pool. Plus, most of the free dlc we have were just REQs, remixes, content that should have been in day one.
4: “Bungie sucked.”
Ok, what’s your point?
5: “YOUR JUST A NOSTALGFAG!!!”
Again you are just being toxic, we are not nostalgia blind, we just want to help the series
6: “Sprint is in the game because it’s in the lore, I’m a super soldier, I should be able to do this.”
This is a terrible argument, the halo games are games not books. If I wanted some lore, I would go read a book or watch a film, halo is a game, and what made halo fun, was it’s gameplay and mechanics, Halo 5 is fun, but painfully generic.
7: “Halo had to change due to competition.”
Umm, doesn’t that make a game less competitive in terms of selling, wouldn’t staying unique, sell more?
8: “If you don’t like it, just don’t play it!!”
This argument also is quite dumb, telling people to leave a franchise because they don’t like something is clearly toxic, halo needs more players.
9: “Halo is doing fine without you.”
Statistics don’t lie. Halo 5 is placed 14th, in the most popular xbox one games, and bf4 is placed 13th.
So going to Bf4stats.com we can clearly see that halo 5 has less than 30K players!!!
ARE YOU JOKING, HALO IS DOING BETTER THAN EVER WHEN IT IS AT 30K PEAK 24HR?!?!!??
HALO 3 HAD AROUND 4 Million AFTER A YEAR?!
11: “That’s because of increased competition”
Um, no
Halo 3 had to compete against, alot of games, and due to no other new halo for 2 years, it had to compete against
Mass effect, Forza motorsport 2, Crysis, Call of duty 4, Call of duty World at war, Skate, Rainbow six vegas, The elder scrolls 4, Crack down, Call of duty MW2, Gears of War, Gears of war 2, Bioshock
Halo 3 had to compete against loads
And guess where it placed in the competition?
1st
10: “Bu…bu, barvo told meh that halo 5 has the highest monthly active users since halo 3,”
MAU’s don’t mean anything, I can log on for a second on halo 5 and I will be classed as a MAU
HAU (Hourly active users) Mean a lot more.
11:"You are just a hater"
And you are just a fanboy

NOW LET’S MOVE ON TO THE OTHER TOXIC GROUP
THE HATERS!!!
LET’S DO THIS
**1: “**Halo is cod now.”
Nope, halo 5 plays nothing like cod, it has borrowed many features from many games, but certainly doesn’t play like cod.
2: “The game is catered to noobs.”
Nope, definitely not. The game is incredibly competitive, the skill gap is high, and as much as I really want the features to go in halo 6, 343 did a great job of making the skill gap high with them
3: “This looks like halo 4”
No, it plays nothing like halo 4, in fact, it plays like no other halo in the past.
4: “The AR is too powerful.”
The AR is the way it is meant to be, but every power weapon, including SMG is more powerful, although i miss Slayer BR’s, this change is a good one
5: “343 have done nothing to appease there audience”
Warzone firefight, is not really firefight, but it is something we have been asking for.
6: “No one wants warzone”
Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
7: "The reqs are just pay to win."
Due to warzone having loads of sweaty players, each req vehicle/ weapon still needs to be used correctly, it’s not a kill button.
8: “Halo 5 is TERRIBLE, no one likes it,”
Plenty of people like it, it’s just that, it doesn’t give that halo feeling and if it did have all of it’s features at launch, then it would have been successful.
9: “Sprint killed halo,”
This has to be the dumbest argument I have ever seen. Sprint did not kill halo solely, it has been a part of it, but plenty of other things have.
Call of halo 4, Master chief collection of bugs, halo 5 guarding the missing content at launch, no split-screen, no proper rewarding system, terrible art style, no 1-50 ranking system killed halo.
IF THE NEXT HALO HAD NO SPRINT BUT STILL HAS MISSING FEATURES AND IS BROKEN, IT WILL FAIL TOO.
10: " Halo 5’s forge is too complex.
The community has been asking for a complex map editing system since halo 3. Halo 5’s forge is the best in the series
11: “You are just a fanboy,”
And you are a hater.

I

I hope people reading this understood my message and hopefully the community can fix it self one step at a time.
NOTE: I HAVEN’T COVERED ALL THE DUMB ARGUMENTS, IF THERE IS A DUMB ARGUMENT PLEASE REPLY DOWN BELOW, AND DEBUNK IT TOO
EDIT: After seeing the reply’s I am actually quite happy to not be called toxic, here we are actually having a healthy discussion (apart from a exception we have here).

2

> 2533274949193447;1:
> 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.

Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…

3

> 2533274801176260;2:
> > 2533274949193447;1:
> > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
>
>
> Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…

I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.

4

> 2533274923562209;3:
> > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> >
> >
> > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
>
>
> I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.

I remember the community asking for an AI vs player vs player mode at some point in time during halo 3, it was an idea

5

> 2533274801176260;2:
> > 2533274949193447;1:
> > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
>
>
> Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…

Well me and my friends did. We imagined it differently but yeah, we wanted bots and real players in matchmaking.

6

> 2533274949193447;4:
> > 2533274923562209;3:
> > > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
> >
> >
> > I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.
>
>
> I remember the community asking for an AI vs player vs player mode at some point in time during halo 3, it was an idea

Firefight? I don’t know, I haven’t played h3 in god knows how long (not counting h3 mcc version) to remember what people talked about back then. I do remember people wanting A.I. Added to forge tho.

7

> 2533274875660146;5:
> > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> >
> >
> > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
>
>
> Well me and my friends did. We imagined it differently but yeah, we wanted bots and real players in matchmaking.

so did you like my post?
What should i do in the future?

8

applauds for 30 straight minutes whilst sobbing tears this guy gets it. OP GETS A GOLD STAR Continues sobbing seriously though great post.

> 2533274923562209;3:
> > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> >
> >
> > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
>
>
> I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.

I do recall wanting larger BTB, but I don’t ever recall wanting microtransactions and a bunch of stat ladders and farmers in a social game mode. Warzone was like that larger BTB dream gone horrible wrong for me, especially because standard BTB suffered as a result.

9

> 2533274831961512;8:
> applauds for 30 straight minutes whilst sobbing tears this guy gets it. OP GETS A GOLD STAR Continues sobbing seriously though great post.
>
>
> > 2533274923562209;3:
> > > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
> >
> >
> > I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.
>
>
> I do recall wanting larger BTB, but I don’t ever recall wanting microtransactions and a bunch of stat ladders and farmers in a social game mode. Warzone was like that larger BTB dream gone horrible wrong for me, especially because standard BTB suffered as a result.

no I was talking about the concept
Not the MT’s

10

> 2533274949193447;4:
> > 2533274923562209;3:
> > > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
> >
> >
> > I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.
>
>
> I remember the community asking for an AI vs player vs player mode at some point in time during halo 3, it was an idea

I don’t recall that, but I was much younger during Halo 3’s heyday. Was that the global battles or whatever it was called?

11

> 2533274831961512;10:
> > 2533274949193447;4:
> > > 2533274923562209;3:
> > > > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.
> >
> >
> > I remember the community asking for an AI vs player vs player mode at some point in time during halo 3, it was an idea
>
>
> I don’t recall that, but I was much younger during Halo 3’s heyday. Was that the global battles or whatever it was called?

> 2533274831961512;10:
> > 2533274949193447;4:
> > > 2533274923562209;3:
> > > > 2533274801176260;2:
> > > > > 2533274949193447;1:
> > > > > 6: *“No one wants warzone”*Believe it or not, it’s been a feature we kinda have been asking since halo 3.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did we? Honest question. I can’t recall people ever asking for a PvPvE mode. In fact, I’m still baffled that people enjoy playing against bots and humans simultaneously. I always thought most people prefer one over the other, but not both at the same time. Then again, I do have a pretty bad memory…
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe people were wanting a bigger btb, kind of like battlefields 32v32. I think warzone was created just cuz of mobas somewhat taking a place in games now and 343 tried to implement something that’s like, 15% I don’t -Yoinking!- know what warzone was supposed to be and where it derives from. All I know is I think warzone was supposed to somewhat be that bigger btb that people wanted.
> >
> >
> > I remember the community asking for an AI vs player vs player mode at some point in time during halo 3, it was an idea
>
>
> I don’t recall that, but I was much younger during Halo 3’s heyday. Was that the global battles or whatever it was called?

OH yes!!
It was that!
Players wanted that but in MP, which kinda relates to the concept of warzone

12

Wow what a garbage post. Why are you comparing Halo games changing BETWEEN games with a single game like TF2 and CS:GO, of course they haven’t evolved you’re talking about the same game not differences between different games in their respective franchises. What utter nonsense.

13

> 2533274875660146;5:
> Well me and my friends did. We imagined it differently but yeah, we wanted bots and real players in matchmaking.

Well, I remember people asking for bots in order to fill up an incomplete team on LAN. Or to temporarily substitute a quitting player in matchmaking. And I still want that. But that has nothing to do with the way Warzone is designed…

14

> 2533274838073795;12:
> Wow what a garbage post. Why are you comparing Halo games changing BETWEEN games with a single game like TF2 and CS:GO, of course they haven’t evolved you’re talking about the same game not differences between different games in their respective franchises. What utter nonsense.

sorry if you can’t take constructive arguments then please remove your post and move on.
I clearly mentioned that Counter strike hasn’t evolved/changed one bit since the original and 600K players still play it.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I must say this.
Grow up

15

> 2533274801176260;13:
> > 2533274875660146;5:
> > Well me and my friends did. We imagined it differently but yeah, we wanted bots and real players in matchmaking.
>
>
> Well, I remember people asking for bots in order to fill up an incomplete team on LAN. Or to temporarily substitute a quitting player in matchmaking. And I still want that. But that has nothing to do with the way Warzone is designed…

fair enough

16

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274949193447;14:
> > 2533274838073795;12:
> > Wow what a garbage post. Why are you comparing Halo games changing BETWEEN games with a single game like TF2 and CS:GO, of course they haven’t evolved you’re talking about the same game not differences between different games in their respective franchises. What utter nonsense.
>
>
> sorry if you can’t take constructive arguments then please remove your post and move on.
> I clearly mentioned that Counter strike hasn’t evolved/changed one bit since the original and 600K players still play it.
> Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I must say this.
> Grow up

Hahaha ok so regurgitating the same tired old arguments that have been cycling for nearly a year is constructive is it? Your post is literally the 1,000th duplicate of this exact nature. And no you didn’t mention changes from CS to GO whatsoever, who are you kidding? I don’t need to grow up, but you need a reality check my friend. Nothing you have said either new and revealing OR constructive. Just the usual butt hurt whining of someone who is so wrapped up in nostalgia they can’t accept change. That’s literally the summary of your post. If you don’t like just move on, I feel really sorry for people who have so little of a life they just keep posting duplicate threads of the same thing. Great we get it you don’t like Halo anymore, (we got in 2015), it’s time to move on with your life.

17

I think the sprint argument isn’t so much that it’s killing the series, but that it’s a new feature that relies heavily on your movement and shield recharge rate, well for me personally. I could care less for arguments over video games, and why the sequel is better than the prequel and the OT is better than the Extended Tril. It’s just a matter of flavor, taste, and opinion at the end of the day.

18

Honestly, as an old halo vet but also one who enjoys the new ones too, I think this is what people often forget:

“claiming any one ideal to be trueonly leads to ignorance”

more than anything else, what really matters, that people forget is that halo is something they themselves like any franchise are supposed to find a means to enjoy.

If you like halo 4, that’s fine. If you prefer the elder halo 2 that influenced a lot, good for you,

You shouldn’t let your enjoyment be diminished by toxic people.

Every day since halo 4 came out, people have complained, complained about 343 and bungie being better.

look at Star Wars, when Disney got rid of the EU, it felt, dumb, so much pre existing characters and stories were better to me than the lazy rehash that was episode 7, seriously I think Finn is the worst main character ever, aside from several plot holes and recycled material, Finn was the most annoying bumbling fool in any Star Wars movie, borderline jar jar. I was happy when that riot storm trooper kicked his -Yoink- and when ren struck him down, I just hated him, he left a bad taste in my mouth. Like this, there are those who like the new Star Wars canon (which I believe is crap) and the older EU.

I honestly need to say this, as an elder player regarding halo.

Halo 3 was my favorite, perhaps my favorite multiplayer game of all time.

Despite its flaws, it was outright fun, no item collection, no regard to stats, crazy modes with forge, great maps, great weapons, getting a body body body headshot with the br in those days was, satisfying.

But times change, things won’t remain the same forever.

Halo 5 is more reach than anything else, better than 4 but not able to live up to 2 or 3.

Has 343 actually broken or killed halo? No it’s going strong, even if trouble did arise, other companies would swoop in to save it, think if Nintendo ended up like sega, you honestly think the industry would let Mario or Zelda of all things fade away?

look back at bungie, did they give halo the same treatment story wise? Unless you read the novels up to 2010, the whole original trilogy seems, limited. Not much in depth, has a lore but doesn’t elaborate on it.

gameplay wise, it was great and influenced many designs.

But times pass and they change.

can you honestly say halo 2 or 3 feels the same in experience as it once was? For their eras, they did well, but they won’t have everything.

were it not for reach, 4, and 5 forge never would have gotten better.

Future games do benefit from other advances, but they often must not forget the formula of success that helped them in the past.

let me ask, is halo 5 doing the arena stuff good or bad, it’s the halo gameplay that 2 and 3 thrived on, but to some players, sprint, clamber, and moves like the ground pound and ram are tools of the devil.

just because a game gets streamlined or new abilities are added doesnt make it it worse.

casualization doesn’t kill a game. Just cause tooltips, markers, or supers exist doesn’t kill it

look at tf2 and overwatch, both class based shooters where teamwork is key to winning.

tf2 allows all players to be any class’s at any time but if no one is a medic, your team is likely to fail. The game won’t tell you this
overwatch has a team builder to say “hey guys you have no support” does that make overwatch worse? No.

likewise se in gameplay, overwatch is much more accessible and streamlined. Tf2 has a fair learning curve dependent on play style and weapons.

yet I have more fun on overwatch, and it still has complex tactics of its own with your character alongside others.

a high skill or low skill ceiling won’t kill a game. But what matters is you just play what you enjoy.

halo is a long series, it’s going to have its pros and cons.

If halo 5 isn’t your cup of tea, don’t torment yourself saying I ordered coffee instead.

if you don’t like halo 1-3 alright, enjoy the newer age ones.

one would think with the MCC, everyone would be happy.

But otherwise, if anyone has no patience, then don’t stick around.

its just rotten customers sense of entitlement at play, don’t have unrealistic expectations, if you seek perfection, you will only have more flaws.

realize that no halo is perfect, you have to take the good with the bad and come to your own conclusion.

i personally think halo 2 had some dumb crap, but I didn’t let it kill the game. Yeah I feel BXR was stupid, and am glad it’s been gone since halo 3.

19

> 2533274838073795;16:
> > 2533274949193447;14:
> > > 2533274838073795;12:
> > > Wow what a garbage post. Why are you comparing Halo games changing BETWEEN games with a single game like TF2 and CS:GO, of course they haven’t evolved you’re talking about the same game not differences between different games in their respective franchises. What utter nonsense.
> >
> >
> > sorry if you can’t take constructive arguments then please remove your post and move on.
> > I clearly mentioned that Counter strike hasn’t evolved/changed one bit since the original and 600K players still play it.
> > Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I must say this.
> > Grow up
>
>
> Hahaha ok so regurgitating the same tired old arguments that have been cycling for nearly a year is constructive is it? Your post is literally the 1,000th duplicate of this exact nature. And no you didn’t mention changes from CS to GO whatsoever, who are you kidding? I don’t need to grow up, but you need a reality check my friend. Nothing you have said either new and revealing OR constructive. Just the usual butt hurt whining of someone who is so wrapped up in nostalgia they can’t accept change. That’s literally the summary of your post. If you don’t like just move on, I feel really sorry for people who have so little of a life they just keep posting duplicate threads of the same thing. Great we get it you don’t like Halo anymore, (we got in 2015), it’s time to move on with your life.

i’m clearly not nostalgic when I bring up both sides of the argument, you seriously need to get checked, because you can’t understand the difference between constructive and non constructive.
Did you read the second half of the post?

20

Shouldn’t this post be… 343 “fan boys” vs bungie “fan boys”?