Death of Jul 'Mdama

I’ve searched, and seen a couple other posts about this character but their topics are way old now.

I’ve been re-experiencing the Halo Book series, this time listening on Audible (thanks HiddenXperia)

Ok so anyways, I was reminded of one of the better characters through the Halo series. I haven’t had a chance to read a lot of the newer books, are their any new people or potential enemies we should be on the look out for?

***Marked this as spoilers because, yes Halo 4, 5 and Kilo-5 have been out for a LONG time, there are new fans joining us every day and well, I just wouldn’t want it ruined for me if it were my first time.

Back to Jul though, his death just seemed like a wasted opportunity. I don’t know if it was their intention to show how awesome Osiris was with them being able to take down Jul or what it was (since through Spartan Ops they kept failing to get him) but it was just a cinematic, and I appreciate it not being a QTE but seriously…

It was a massively wasted opportunity. Jul could have made for a great secondary villain throughout the campaign, directing his forces to take down Osiris at every turn, but the writers pretty much tossed his carcass in a dumpster.

At the very least, that cut scene should have been a boss battle. It had the potential to be a re-imagined Heretic boss fight (one of the only good boss fights in Halo, since Halo just has never been that good at boss fights imo). The arena was set up quite well with sheer cliff faces, a phantom in the background, and several Elite guards. The first time I played the campaign, I sat there ready to do battle with Jul and his guards… how stupid do you think I felt watching that whole thing go down in a few seconds of bad choreography?

> 2783251376874809;1:
> I’ve searched, and seen a couple other posts about this character but their topics are way old now.
>
> I’ve been re-experiencing the Halo Book series, this time listening on Audible (thanks HiddenXperia)
>
> Ok so anyways, I was reminded of one of the better characters through the Halo series. I haven’t had a chance to read a lot of the newer books, are their any new people or potential enemies we should be on the look out for?
>
> ***Marked this as spoilers because, yes Halo 4, 5 and Kilo-5 have been out for a LONG time, there are new fans joining us every day and well, I just wouldn’t want it ruined for me if it were my first time.
> Back to Jul though, his death just seemed like a wasted opportunity. I don’t know if it was their intention to show how awesome Osiris was with them being able to take down Jul or what it was (since through Spartan Ops they kept failing to get him) but it was just a cinematic, and I appreciate it not being a QTE but seriously…

Yeah, Jul didn’t need to die. It was all part of the Micheal Bay movie feel where they fly down a mountain killing stuff to get Halsey and end up liking Jul because they can. Jul would have made an awesome main villain. I know that the Warden was the biggest boss (and the most annoying) but he only fights with Forerunners. Maybe we could have seen more covenant bosses with Jul being the final boss and hardest to kill.

Wasted opportunity is an understatement. Like HappyPlace8186 said, Jul could have been a great secondary antagonist for Halo 5, but for some reason the creative team decided to kill him off in a bad cutscene.

> 2535435902217648;2:
> It was a massively wasted opportunity. Jul could have made for a great secondary villain throughout the campaign, directing his forces to take down Osiris at every turn, but the writers pretty much tossed his carcass in a dumpster.
>
> At the very least, that cut scene should have been a boss battle. It had the potential to be a re-imagined Heretic boss fight (one of the only good boss fights in Halo, since Halo just has never been that good at boss fights imo). The arena was set up quite well with sheer cliff faces, a phantom in the background, and several Elite guards. The first time I played the campaign, I sat there ready to do battle with Jul and his guards… how stupid do you think I felt watching that whole thing go down in a few seconds of bad choreography?

Perfectly stated. The whole design of that cutscene / story arc was quite hypocritical. Halo 5 requires a ton of outside and/or secondary info to fully comprehend. Jul was the main antagonist of Spartan Ops, a secondary mode in H4. But instead of having a fairly reasonable expectation of players knowing who he was or being able to easily find out, they simply killed him off. Meanwhile, there are all sorts of new locations and brand new Spartans flying around with no explanation whatsoever. Additionally, Jul’s character was flushed out reasonably well in a couple of novels from the time of H4. Wasted opportunity and yet another reason I’m glad 343i got a new narrative lead.

Jul, oh Jul, you didn’t deserve to die like that.
With no honor.
What a shame.

> 2533274824050480;5:
> > 2535435902217648;2:
> > It was a massively wasted opportunity. Jul could have made for a great secondary villain throughout the campaign, directing his forces to take down Osiris at every turn, but the writers pretty much tossed his carcass in a dumpster.
> >
> > At the very least, that cut scene should have been a boss battle. It had the potential to be a re-imagined Heretic boss fight (one of the only good boss fights in Halo, since Halo just has never been that good at boss fights imo). The arena was set up quite well with sheer cliff faces, a phantom in the background, and several Elite guards. The first time I played the campaign, I sat there ready to do battle with Jul and his guards… how stupid do you think I felt watching that whole thing go down in a few seconds of bad choreography?
>
> Perfectly stated. The whole design of that cutscene / story arc was quite hypocritical. Halo 5 requires a ton of outside and/or secondary info to fully comprehend. Jul was the main antagonist of Spartan Ops, a secondary mode in H4. But instead of having a fairly reasonable expectation of players knowing who he was or being able to easily find out, they simply killed him off. Meanwhile, there are all sorts of new locations and brand new Spartans flying around with no explanation whatsoever. Additionally, Jul’s character was flushed out reasonably well in a couple of novels from the time of H4. Wasted opportunity and yet another reason I’m glad 343i got a new narrative lead.

To be fair about the Spartans, at least with Osiris, you don’t really need their expanded universe content. Locke’s ONI background is mentioned in his talk with the Arbiter, Tanaka mentions her colonial background during Meridian’s mission, Vale talks about learning Sangheili during the Sanghelios missions, and most people know who Buck is already.

Way I see it, plenty of Halo characters have been introduced without any warning or diving into their backstories, so it strikes me that fans feel like they need that with folks in Osiris. Never delved into Johnson’s history. Or Lord Hood. Or Miranda Keyes. I’m sure someone will say why that’s different, but it just strikes me as odd.

> 2533274812652989;7:
> > 2533274824050480;5:
> > > 2535435902217648;2:
> > > It was a massively wasted opportunity. Jul could have made for a great secondary villain throughout the campaign, directing his forces to take down Osiris at every turn, but the writers pretty much tossed his carcass in a dumpster.
> > >
> > > At the very least, that cut scene should have been a boss battle. It had the potential to be a re-imagined Heretic boss fight (one of the only good boss fights in Halo, since Halo just has never been that good at boss fights imo). The arena was set up quite well with sheer cliff faces, a phantom in the background, and several Elite guards. The first time I played the campaign, I sat there ready to do battle with Jul and his guards… how stupid do you think I felt watching that whole thing go down in a few seconds of bad choreography?
> >
> > Perfectly stated. The whole design of that cutscene / story arc was quite hypocritical. Halo 5 requires a ton of outside and/or secondary info to fully comprehend. Jul was the main antagonist of Spartan Ops, a secondary mode in H4. But instead of having a fairly reasonable expectation of players knowing who he was or being able to easily find out, they simply killed him off. Meanwhile, there are all sorts of new locations and brand new Spartans flying around with no explanation whatsoever. Additionally, Jul’s character was flushed out reasonably well in a couple of novels from the time of H4. Wasted opportunity and yet another reason I’m glad 343i got a new narrative lead.
>
> To be fair about the Spartans, at least with Osiris, you don’t really need their expanded universe content. Locke’s ONI background is mentioned in his talk with the Arbiter, Tanaka mentions her colonial background during Meridian’s mission, Vale talks about learning Sangheili during the Sanghelios missions, and most people know who Buck is already.
>
> Way I see it, plenty of Halo characters have been introduced without any warning or diving into their backstories, so it strikes me that fans feel like they need that with folks in Osiris. Never delved into Johnson’s history. Or Lord Hood. Or Miranda Keyes. I’m sure someone will say why that’s different, but it just strikes me as odd.

Fair point. But, the thing with the classic three in my
mind was how we were shown who they were and not told. We didn’t need to know about their history because what was presented in the games was plenty. And it wasn’t through straight up exposition either. For instance, at no point does anyone say, “Look, this is Johnson. He is the ultimate badass. Even Chief loves him. Everyone respects him.” We were shown that, not told.

Osiris only talked and it seemed robotic and forced. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve read the outside material and listened to the exposition in game and it makes me want to get to know them and like them. They could make for a sweet new Spartan team.

Problem is I think the H5 writers did not do them (and Blue Team for that matter) enough justice when writing about them. For instance, I learned and felt a greater bond with Vale only after reading a book she was a main character in. If a game can’t flush out characters with all the advantages visual media has over books (eg., clearer presentation of sarcasm), then there’s definitely something wrong. I like Osiris and hope the new writers do a better job than the H5 ones.

That’s the reason I take issue with the way they handled Jul. There was tons of exposition and build up in H4 and they just ended it with a cutscene. That arc could have gone somewhere which is a bummer.

We’re we really “told” things to find awesome about these characters? More or less everything we learn had some relevance to the plot. Even Locke’s role as an assassin is brought up because he’s meeting the guy he planned to kill (Arbiter). I’d also have to ask if knowing about Vale’s mission to the Ark would have been relevant to Halo 5 or just seem like pointless exposition. At that point you would need the expanded universe to get her reference.

Don’t get me wrong, I feel Jul was wasted as well but I just think some of the criticisms garnered by 4 and 5 feel more like “established wisdom” that gets parroted because they sound good. Jul’s death being wasted is totally NOT that though.

> 2533274812652989;9:
> We’re we really “told” things to find awesome about these characters? More or less everything we learn had some relevance to the plot. Even Locke’s role as an assassin is brought up because he’s meeting the guy he planned to kill (Arbiter). I’d also have to ask if knowing about Vale’s mission to the Ark would have been relevant to Halo 5 or just seem like pointless exposition. At that point you would need the expanded universe to get her reference.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I feel Jul was wasted as well but I just think some of the criticisms garnered by 4 and 5 feel more like “established wisdom” that gets parroted because they sound good. Jul’s death being wasted is totally NOT that though.

I get where you’re coming from, and I certainly agree that the amount of EU material needed to understand H5 is not as massive as people have made it out to be. But H5 did kinda rely heavily on EU material to get players to care about the characters.

Like your example of Vale. Knowing her backstory is absolutely not relevant to understanding her role in H5. However, that information does make players care about her as a character. She becomes interesting and has depth. So in that sense, H5 relied very heavily on EU material. It didn’t rely on it too much for the base knowledge of what was going on in the game, but it relied on it heavily for getting people to care about the characters in the game.

Wow, huge response. Didn’t expect even a single reply!

I knew we were in trouble when they released the flow chart that showed us what book, comic, or live action movie we needed to watch to get to know the characters of Halo 5.

I’d already read Hunters in the Dark before I knew about its loose tie in to H5.

So we have a new narrative lead? Must have missed that!

Hoping for better story telling…

His character was one-note, and he was demonstrated to be an incredibly bad fighter as far back as his first appearance. He and Avu Med 'Telcam are complete and utter embarrassments, combatively-speaking, and Jul wasn’t even that great a tactician— bog-standard, at best. We’ve never seen him show any tactical prowess in space battles or on the ground, and the only thing we know about him was that he was a Shipmaster during the Covenant war— in which case, his job would have been to obey whatever the Fleetmaster said, and not necessarily to act on his own.

His successes are entirely based on dumb luck and the undeserved support of his cronies. His only consistent talent was playing to a crowd, and the only thing he did consistently well was: knowing when he was beaten and running away. Other than that, his victories have been entirely derived from his underlings managing to scrape together a symbolic win, and he was never shown to be able to command or control a situation— he played things by ear and lasted longer than he had any business lasting, stumbling and bumbling as he went.

If Locke didn’t kill him in Halo 5, I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if he got killed off, off-screen, by some random team of ODSTs. His legacy is one of failure, his remaining sons have already far out-performed him (achievement and character-wise), and he deserves little more than to be laughed at. I don’t understand why anyone was so attached to him.

> 2533274955203897;12:
> If Locke didn’t kill him in Halo 5, I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if he got killed off, off-screen, by some random team of ODSTs. His legacy is one of failure, his remaining sons have already far out-performed him (achievement and character-wise), and he deserves little more than to be laughed at. I don’t understand why anyone was so attached to him.

My major complaint is that we need the story to take a direction and stick with it…
Didact is explored in 3 books, set up as massive enemy and the end of H4 left it open for him to come back because we didn’t see a body, comics confirmed it, he was still there, then composed…and still no body, and he could have very well been still alive in H5…then we kill the hand of the Didact…I think it’s kinda clear they wanted to move away from him…which feels like a huge let down…with all that buildup…

Yeah I agree strongly with this, I’ve been reading Glasslands and Thursday War and they show me a completely different side to Jul that I didn’t experience in Halo 4 or 5 sadly. I was pleased to read these, but honestly if they were gonna off him in the first mission, might as well do what they did to Ur-Didact in that comic. Both Jul and Didact would have been awesome characters to expand on and perhaps even battle against one last time. I think we can all agree what they did was lazy, I just hope they don’t make this same mistake a third, a forth, or even a fifth time and so on.

Especially If they plan on killing off other ‘big characters’. If I hadn’t read the Kilo-Five trilogy I would have forgotten about Jul all together, the books expanded more on character development than the games have ever been able to achieve. That being said, I feel as though any ‘big characters’ that were introduced in the Reclaimer series at least deserve more of this (development) in future games, otherwise their deaths feel cheesy and without emotional attachment there isn’t really much of a story imo.

> 2535410037125308;14:
> Yeah I agree strongly with this, I’ve been reading Glasslands and Thursday War and they show me a completely different side to Jul that I didn’t experience in Halo 4 or 5 sadly. I was pleased to read these, but honestly if they were gonna off him in the first mission, might as well do what they did to Ur-Didact in that comic. Both Jul and Didact would have been awesome characters to expand on and perhaps even battle against one last time. I think we can all agree what they did was lazy, I just hope they don’t make this same mistake a third, a forth, or even a fifth time and so on.
>
> Especially If they plan on killing off other ‘big characters’. If I hadn’t read the Kilo-Five trilogy I would have forgotten about Jul all together, the books expanded more on character development than the games have ever been able to achieve. That being said, I feel as though any ‘big characters’ that were introduced in the Reclaimer series at least deserve more of this (development) in future games, otherwise their deaths feel cheesy and without emotional attachment there isn’t really much of a story imo.

Glad to see someone else who enjoyed the Kilo Five Trilogy. I definitely have plenty of complaints about it, but there were some great highlights. Jul was a fairly flat character, but that isn’t always a bad thing (Chief was flat throughout the OG trilogy, for example). Jul’s parts of the K-5 trilogy were a treat to read.

I think it was another example of Halo 5 trying to “course correct” from Halo 4 and Spartan Ops. At the time H5 was in development, I recall a lot of vocal H4 naysayers (myself included to an unfortunate degree) speaking out against both the Didact and the Promethians and M’Dama and the Storm Faction of Covenant. Obviously, the Didact didn’t get to come back in H5- I think M’Dama was minimally included and killed off quickly to try to minimize how much of a tie there was between H4 and H5 with regards to ongoing antagonists.

I really appreciated the H5 campaign for doing a lot of this when it came out and I was still more anti Halo 4- over time, my opinions of that game have softened considerably and I think that (even though I didn’t prefer the Didact/Reclaimer setup that was going on to the conflict in CE-3) the concepts set up in Halo 4 could’ve gone somewhere much more interesting if 343i had stuck to their guns a bit more and carried on some more elements like M’Dama’s Storm Faction on into the future of the series.

But, I’ll go ahead and also say that M’Dama as a character couldn’t begin to compare in terms of intrigue and bad Yoink!ery to Arbiter; so, I think there is potential for 343i to do the fundamentalist Covenant cult angle more justice than they did with the Storm Faction. The Banished in HW2 are a more interesting example of stalwart Covenant remnants, to me at least. If they show up in Infinite, or another loyalist Covie faction led by someone a little more distinct and interesting than Jul, that’d be perfect.

Edit: I haven’t read the Kilo Five books, so I’m going off of purely from-game knowledge.

> 2535410037125308;14:
> Yeah I agree strongly with this, I’ve been reading Glasslands and Thursday War and they show me a completely different side to Jul that I didn’t experience in Halo 4 or 5 sadly. I was pleased to read these, but honestly if they were gonna off him in the first mission, might as well do what they did to Ur-Didact in that comic. Both Jul and Didact would have been awesome characters to expand on and perhaps even battle against one last time. I think we can all agree what they did was lazy, I just hope they don’t make this same mistake a third, a forth, or even a fifth time and so on.
>
> Especially If they plan on killing off other ‘big characters’. If I hadn’t read the Kilo-Five trilogy I would have forgotten about Jul all together, the books expanded more on character development than the games have ever been able to achieve. That being said, I feel as though any ‘big characters’ that were introduced in the Reclaimer series at least deserve more of this (development) in future games, otherwise their deaths feel cheesy and without emotional attachment there isn’t really much of a story imo.

He didn’t have much going for him alone, but Jul could have been a loyal servant to the Didact as a kinda henchman status. Kind of like how the big bad of any show has their number 1 lieutenant that will die for them before they let their master fail. Both equally hated Humanity and could have been a proper antagonist but alas…

I wish Jul would have died in Halo: Infinite. If he was to die in 5, at least later on down the line during the Fall of Sunaion. I think that would have truly solidified the Covenant’s final stand. And make it a boss battle with multiple Elites around like they did in Warzone. Finish someone off that gave the UNSC on Requiem a run for its money. Send that Elite off wish some justice.

> 2533274812438213;18:
> I wish Jul would have died in Halo: Infinite. If he was to die in 5, at least later on down the line during the Fall of Sunaion. I think that would have truly solidified the Covenant’s final stand. And make it a boss battle with multiple Elites around like they did in Warzone. Finish someone off that gave the UNSC on Requiem a run for its money. Send that Elite off wish some justice.

Anything would have been better than what we got.

As far as new enemies, everyone keeps forgetting about the Covenant.

No, I’m not talking about the Banished. Even though they are an AWESOME faction.

No, I’m not talking about Jul 'Mdama’s Storm faction.

At the end of Halo: Escalation a captured Sangheili who still believed in the Forerunners as gods and was Jul’s prisoner was set free due to a Sangheili spy working for ONI. The fanatic took half of Jul’s forces and left. He’s still out there.

Sali 'Nyon.