we haven’t seen what halo infinite ranking system will be like…but it’s a huge known issue in 5 that a player can purposely create a new account…rank in extremely low…join a buddy on a higher tier…manipulate MM to find players far below their skill level and have the higher player get nearly 30 kills per game and sky rocket their rank. This is absolutely disgusting to see, it ruins the game for who they’re facing and for what purpose it’s done I just can’t understand why. (For those that do not know, your win counts as a base increase, your stats reflect how far the increase goes determined by statistics of you out performing the expected outcome where variables such as opposing players total MMR vs your teams depicts more or less of an increase…where that low account drags the high players teams MMR down as the under dog team most matches. Which is why they get massive csr jumps because they were predicted to lose each match.)
Sometimes we have friends who may be rusty…haven’t played…or new to the game…but we make it an effort to build them up and teach them…not exploit them in MM to our benefit. So its way more often than not the other scenario. It ruins the game…it can get players banned but it has to go through a long report process and even then its the new account that gets banned and not the high ranking player. I know because I’ve submitted tickets and have seen these guys still doing the same crap.
Given this reality…I believe there has to be some other form of measuring skill and safe guards to prevent this. In other games…I mean its the equivalent of a lv 99 player playing with a lv 2 player in a MMO. Killing low level enemies would get that higher player absolutely nothing but in halo 5 it gives them much more vs them more than likely de ranking playing normal.
MMO and FPS…obviously 2 different games…but there’s messages and limits on some games. You can’t be X amount of levels below or higher than someone if you want to play with them…so…I had an idea.
We don’t know about infinite yet, but let’s use halo 5 as an example.
Daimond 4 player just invited a silver player to his fireteam. The following message should pop up. player rank difference too high. Csr gains will be minimal
Discourages from using this method to cheat the system. Or another means…is to force scaling the MM up to the highest ranked player when the difference is that high. It just has to be done. There needs to be some form of calculations to predict that these guys are trying to abuse a loop hole…because normally no one in their right mind would invite someone THAT below their skill tier…for 2 reasons…that player won’t be of any help in a real match…and that becomes absolutely 0 fun for that player to be in so far over their head (if it were a legit low ranked player and not a dummy account)
Thoughts, feedback, suggestions? I feel we definitely need to voice this for our upcoming game. Especially because it’s possible thats 5s ranking system may be the base of what infinites will be…and it’s unknown how much thought has been put in avoiding this as of now. It can’t just be seen as "this is nothing new. Use the report function. "
I get it. Boosters have existed for a long time…but it’s 2021…I think it’s about time this goes away for good. Thanks for reading. I know it was long and drawn out…I dont even personally care about my rank, but what I do care about is fair games and games that make sense. Too often does the halo 5 player look at what just happened asking “why?”. A bad ranking system will by default just get players uninterested in the game all over again. We don’t want infinite to suffer anything resembling the major screw ups of 5.
H5 is better about combating smurfs like this than previous halos, thanks to trueskill2. It can determine the skill of new accounts in a few matches, and can also detect when new accounts have performance disparities not explained by normal skill variation (people have complained about being banned for this). There’s no way to 100% prevent people from griefing and trying to rank manipulate, but I think 343 will be vigilant in trying to keep it minimized. If they don’t, then they’ll lose players.
> 2533274817408735;2:
> H5 is better about combating smurfs like this than previous halos, thanks to trueskill2. It can determine the skill of new accounts in a few matches, and can also detect when new accounts have performance disparities not explained by normal skill variation (people have complained about being banned for this). There’s no way to 100% prevent people from griefing and trying to rank manipulate, but I think 343 will be vigilant in trying to keep it minimized. If they don’t, then they’ll lose players.
I hope you’re right…I literally seen someone last night I played with before at a much higher rank. I wondered how his matches went and decided to look up his match history. Low and behold…dude was playing with a silver account for every single match to get into where he currently sits…like dude…I totally get what you’re saying…but it just doesn’t seem all that better if this stuff constantly still happening. My friends see this happen in their matches often and i encourage to report it but we’re all just so tired of it.
I do hope that yea…it’s improved upon, that they’re vigilant…but we got an awesome community here that can also help and brain storm ideas. Maybe my ideas completely suck. I have no idea but maybe someone else might just say something no one has thought of.
I’m sorry and hope I haven’t just created a topic ontop of many already existing topics of this nature. Thank you for replying.
The game of course isn’t out yet and it’s quite possible more measures are already in place.
> 2533274842046585;3:
> > 2533274817408735;2:
> > H5 is better about combating smurfs like this than previous halos, thanks to trueskill2. It can determine the skill of new accounts in a few matches, and can also detect when new accounts have performance disparities not explained by normal skill variation (people have complained about being banned for this). There’s no way to 100% prevent people from griefing and trying to rank manipulate, but I think 343 will be vigilant in trying to keep it minimized. If they don’t, then they’ll lose players.
>
> I hope you’re right…I literally seen someone last night I played with before at a much higher rank. I wondered how his matches went and decided to look up his match history. Low and behold…dude was playing with a silver account for every single match to get into where he currently sits…like dude…I totally get what you’re saying…but it just doesn’t seem all that better if this stuff constantly still happening. My friends see this happen in their matches often and i encourage to report it but we’re all just so tired of it.
>
> I do hope that yea…it’s improved upon, that they’re vigilant…but we got an awesome community here that can also help and brain storm ideas. Maybe my ideas completely suck. I have no idea but maybe someone else might just say something no one has thought of.
>
> I’m sorry and hope I haven’t just created a topic ontop of many already existing topics of this nature. Thank you for replying.
>
> The game of course isn’t out yet and it’s quite possible more measures are already in place.
You can always help 343 identify Smurfs by submitting Player Report tickets at support.halowaypoint.com. You can include images in the report as evidence.
> 2533274817408735;4:
> > 2533274842046585;3:
> > > 2533274817408735;2:
> > > H5 is better about combating smurfs like this than previous halos, thanks to trueskill2. It can determine the skill of new accounts in a few matches, and can also detect when new accounts have performance disparities not explained by normal skill variation (people have complained about being banned for this). There’s no way to 100% prevent people from griefing and trying to rank manipulate, but I think 343 will be vigilant in trying to keep it minimized. If they don’t, then they’ll lose players.
> >
> > I hope you’re right…I literally seen someone last night I played with before at a much higher rank. I wondered how his matches went and decided to look up his match history. Low and behold…dude was playing with a silver account for every single match to get into where he currently sits…like dude…I totally get what you’re saying…but it just doesn’t seem all that better if this stuff constantly still happening. My friends see this happen in their matches often and i encourage to report it but we’re all just so tired of it.
> >
> > I do hope that yea…it’s improved upon, that they’re vigilant…but we got an awesome community here that can also help and brain storm ideas. Maybe my ideas completely suck. I have no idea but maybe someone else might just say something no one has thought of.
> >
> > I’m sorry and hope I haven’t just created a topic ontop of many already existing topics of this nature. Thank you for replying.
> >
> > The game of course isn’t out yet and it’s quite possible more measures are already in place.
>
> You can always help 343 identify Smurfs by submitting Player Report tickets at support.halowaypoint.com. You can include images in the report as evidence.
H5 is definitely way better — but there are folks who do some hard manipulating to get around it. Honestly, it doesn’t seem like a huge issue because from what I’ve seen all involved get hit with lengthy bans sooner or later.
The idea of capping gains if there is a huge Rank differential does seem like it has potential though
> 2533274842046585;1:
> we haven’t seen what halo infinite ranking system will be like…but it’s a huge known issue in 5 that a player can purposely create a new account…rank in extremely low…join a buddy on a higher tier…manipulate MM to find players far below their skill level and have the higher player get nearly 30 kills per game and sky rocket their rank. This is absolutely disgusting to see, it ruins the game for who they’re facing and for what purpose it’s done I just can’t understand why. (For those that do not know, your win counts as a base increase, your stats reflect how far the increase goes determined by statistics of you out performing the expected outcome where variables such as opposing players total MMR vs your teams depicts more or less of an increase…where that low account drags the high players teams MMR down as the under dog team most matches. Which is why they get massive csr jumps because they were predicted to lose each match.)
>
> Sometimes we have friends who may be rusty…haven’t played…or new to the game…but we make it an effort to build them up and teach them…not exploit them in MM to our benefit. So its way more often than not the other scenario. It ruins the game…it can get players banned but it has to go through a long report process and even then its the new account that gets banned and not the high ranking player. I know because I’ve submitted tickets and have seen these guys still doing the same crap.
>
> Given this reality…I believe there has to be some other form of measuring skill and safe guards to prevent this. In other games…I mean its the equivalent of a lv 99 player playing with a lv 2 player in a MMO. Killing low level enemies would get that higher player absolutely nothing but in halo 5 it gives them much more vs them more than likely de ranking playing normal.
>
> MMO and FPS…obviously 2 different games…but there’s messages and limits on some games. You can’t be X amount of levels below or higher than someone if you want to play with them…so…I had an idea.
>
> We don’t know about infinite yet, but let’s use halo 5 as an example.
>
> Daimond 4 player just invited a silver player to his fireteam. The following message should pop up.
> player rank difference too high. Csr gains will be minimal
>
> Discourages from using this method to cheat the system. Or another means…is to force scaling the MM up to the highest ranked player when the difference is that high. It just has to be done. There needs to be some form of calculations to predict that these guys are trying to abuse a loop hole…because normally no one in their right mind would invite someone THAT below their skill tier…for 2 reasons…that player won’t be of any help in a real match…and that becomes absolutely 0 fun for that player to be in so far over their head (if it were a legit low ranked player and not a dummy account)
>
> Thoughts, feedback, suggestions? I feel we definitely need to voice this for our upcoming game. Especially because it’s possible thats 5s ranking system may be the base of what infinites will be…and it’s unknown how much thought has been put in avoiding this as of now. It can’t just be seen as "this is nothing new. Use the report function. "
>
> I get it. Boosters have existed for a long time…but it’s 2021…I think it’s about time this goes away for good. Thanks for reading. I know it was long and drawn out…I dont even personally care about my rank, but what I do care about is fair games and games that make sense. Too often does the halo 5 player look at what just happened asking “why?”. A bad ranking system will by default just get players uninterested in the game all over again. We don’t want infinite to suffer anything resembling the major screw ups of 5.
So in comp this just doesn’t happen anymore for H5 it did in early updates but they’ve actually in my opinion gone overkill in the opposite direction
So if there is team of 4 diamond players on 1 team and a team of 3 diamond players and an onyx if team 2 wins the game they almost get no CSR for the win but if team 1 wins they get a ton of CSR and team 2 gets their ranks destroyed when the skill difference between an onyx and a high diamond is very slim
If one player leaves early in course of the game the team with 4 players does not get any CSR but if the team with 3 wins they get a ton of CSR it’s stupid because sometimes the rage quitter is just giving the other team free kills. This has made it very annoying for players to rank up in the games.
For social ranks the matchmaking should be like the MCCs as of it is a strict as 5s it defeats the purpose of playing social in the first place.
This is an interesting topic and a hard one. I enjoy playing slayer and play a lot with a personal friend who is umm, less than skilled. Last night we had a brand new player join us, a personal friend of his. I tried to switch over to social slayer but it wasn’t a playlist option any longer. Three of us prevented us from quick play so… what were we to do? Even one of my neighbors is excited to play Infinite with me though he hasn’t played since CE! Hopefully we get a social playlist that can take more than 2 players and is a somewhat traditional game style!
> 2535431951485053;6:
> > 2533274842046585;1:
> > we haven’t seen what halo infinite ranking system will be like…but it’s a huge known issue in 5 that a player can purposely create a new account…rank in extremely low…join a buddy on a higher tier…manipulate MM to find players far below their skill level and have the higher player get nearly 30 kills per game and sky rocket their rank. This is absolutely disgusting to see, it ruins the game for who they’re facing and for what purpose it’s done I just can’t understand why. (For those that do not know, your win counts as a base increase, your stats reflect how far the increase goes determined by statistics of you out performing the expected outcome where variables such as opposing players total MMR vs your teams depicts more or less of an increase…where that low account drags the high players teams MMR down as the under dog team most matches. Which is why they get massive csr jumps because they were predicted to lose each match.)
> >
> > Sometimes we have friends who may be rusty…haven’t played…or new to the game…but we make it an effort to build them up and teach them…not exploit them in MM to our benefit. So its way more often than not the other scenario. It ruins the game…it can get players banned but it has to go through a long report process and even then its the new account that gets banned and not the high ranking player. I know because I’ve submitted tickets and have seen these guys still doing the same crap.
> >
> > Given this reality…I believe there has to be some other form of measuring skill and safe guards to prevent this. In other games…I mean its the equivalent of a lv 99 player playing with a lv 2 player in a MMO. Killing low level enemies would get that higher player absolutely nothing but in halo 5 it gives them much more vs them more than likely de ranking playing normal.
> >
> > MMO and FPS…obviously 2 different games…but there’s messages and limits on some games. You can’t be X amount of levels below or higher than someone if you want to play with them…so…I had an idea.
> >
> > We don’t know about infinite yet, but let’s use halo 5 as an example.
> >
> > Daimond 4 player just invited a silver player to his fireteam. The following message should pop up.
> > player rank difference too high. Csr gains will be minimal
> >
> > Discourages from using this method to cheat the system. Or another means…is to force scaling the MM up to the highest ranked player when the difference is that high. It just has to be done. There needs to be some form of calculations to predict that these guys are trying to abuse a loop hole…because normally no one in their right mind would invite someone THAT below their skill tier…for 2 reasons…that player won’t be of any help in a real match…and that becomes absolutely 0 fun for that player to be in so far over their head (if it were a legit low ranked player and not a dummy account)
> >
> > Thoughts, feedback, suggestions? I feel we definitely need to voice this for our upcoming game. Especially because it’s possible thats 5s ranking system may be the base of what infinites will be…and it’s unknown how much thought has been put in avoiding this as of now. It can’t just be seen as "this is nothing new. Use the report function. "
> >
> > I get it. Boosters have existed for a long time…but it’s 2021…I think it’s about time this goes away for good. Thanks for reading. I know it was long and drawn out…I dont even personally care about my rank, but what I do care about is fair games and games that make sense. Too often does the halo 5 player look at what just happened asking “why?”. A bad ranking system will by default just get players uninterested in the game all over again. We don’t want infinite to suffer anything resembling the major screw ups of 5.
>
> 1) So in comp this just doesn’t happen anymore for H5 it did in early updates but they’ve actually in my opinion gone overkill in the opposite direction
> 2) So if there is team of 4 diamond players on 1 team and a team of 3 diamond players and an onyx if team 2 wins the game they almost get no CSR for the win but if team 1 wins they get a ton of CSR and team 2 gets their ranks destroyed when the skill difference between an onyx and a high diamond is very slim
> 3) If one player leaves early in course of the game the team with 4 players does not get any CSR but if the team with 3 wins they get a ton of CSR it’s stupid because sometimes the rage quitter is just giving the other team free kills. This has made it very annoying for players to rank up in the games.
> 4) For social ranks the matchmaking should be like the MCCs as of it is a strict as 5s it defeats the purpose of playing social in the first place.
You’ve missed all the points and are bringing up other issues not relevant to the topic at hand. I’ll try to explain though.
Team 1s total MMR is less than team 2. You rank up by having your MMR go up and this is done by out doing what is expected. If team 2s mmr is drastically higher than team 1s, then the match is too heavily favored for them to get a good csr pay out. If team 1 wins, they were at such a low win % in that prediction that they’d get a big bump in rank. Its annoying , but it makes sense.
Your mmr is everything in the game. The rank on screen doesn’t hold its entire value you believe it does. You see a slim difference in rank between their d 6 and your onyx, but the reality could be that your onyx mmr is way above the d6 player , and that your onyx player has been really high onyx before in past seasons while that d6 has never been that high. 1 player clearly having a higher mmr amd raising the entire team mmr up.
So when a team of 4 loses…you will notice some lose more than others when you may feel it should be fair across the board. The reason why it isn’t is because the difference of skill. 1 person expected to do not all that great while the other basically expected to carry the entire team. It sucks, but this is how the game works. If a lower ranked player on your team keeps out performing you (might take awhile) but that player eventually will surpass you while all winning the same games all against the same teams. Which makes sense right? Better scores, better kda, better damage, kpm etc.
So a few things on that note…is this a perfect means of measuring skill and a ranking system? No. I dont personally believe so…and for a few different reasons…but…In a healthy population it does work.
On another point I have personally gotten a ridiculous csr payout beating 3 players in a 4v3. So it does happen.
> 2782581198350151;7:
> This is an interesting topic and a hard one. I enjoy playing slayer and play a lot with a personal friend who is umm, less than skilled. Last night we had a brand new player join us, a personal friend of his. I tried to switch over to social slayer but it wasn’t a playlist option any longer. Three of us prevented us from quick play so… what were we to do? Even one of my neighbors is excited to play Infinite with me though he hasn’t played since CE! Hopefully we get a social playlist that can take more than 2 players and is a somewhat traditional game style!
This is very understandable, and what makes it difficult to 100% with certainty say if its boosting or normal play…but this is also why social is so important. Even still…what we see in 5 is like the extreme of extremes. I’ve literally seen someone name their dummy account boosterbot. Like these dudes know exactly what they’re doing and the accounts get hardly any playtime except for those specific boosting periods. Playing with real people a bit behind the skill curve I believe will hold different statistics, different play time and spartan rank that make sense as the players progress in their play sessions. Not these weird drastic fall offs that is currently seen. At least…I dont believe so.