Cutter vs Brute on Blood River

Games Other Halo
1

Foreword

For me Blood River and Blood Gulch are the most confusing maps in the game. The confusion has only grown after changing from Anders to Cutter.

There is so many options to do in this matchup with Cutter. Elephant first? Barracks first? Hogs + supply pads first?

Elephant first

My build order is : elephant + sp + sp + sp + reactor + barracks + something.

I setup the elephant half way from my base to hook. I use the glitch to check which - if any - supply elevators Brute has already taken. Depending the check I either build marines or flamers. Since it costs a lot for Brute to vortex marines/flamers out of towers/hooks it is good idea to occupy all the towers/hooks possible.

With my hog I collect supplies. Sometimes I try to ram his first brute squad around 52 second mark. The problem is that one hog is not enough to stop the brute going to teleporter. Is this the fact or just my bad microing? I do not know.

With barracks + reactor I can tech up my flamers/marines. It takes a few extra supplies from Brute to vortex upgraded units down. Also flashbang is useful when taking brutes/jackals out of hooks.

I think it would be improvement to take my reactor hook instead of building one. So far it is too complicated to for me to fight against Brute and forerunners at the same time.

[/li]- gives good economy since first building is supply pad

  • gives good base changes to fight for supply hooks
  • delays hog production almost by 2 hogs
  • maybe quick loss if Brute finds the elephant (without flamers nearby)

Barracs first

Build order : barracks + 2 x hog + sp + sp + sp + something

I use the first hog to collect some supplies before it has a friend. Then I try to ram the first brute squad down with both hogs. This should be possible, but sometimes I fail on it. Every rammed brute squad delays Brute by 24 seconds (maybe more, if he has no supplies left to build new squad immediately). For me it is not easy to ram brutes even with 2 x hog.

Despite saving money by going 150 supply barracs instead of 400 supply elephant this build gives less supplies than the first one. This is due that first supply pad is delayed by 30 seconds + hogs are not collecting supplies. When compared to Brutes economy, this should be better (if one manages to ram 1-2 brutes before letting one pass).

If Brute builds a front turret (at start) then it is almost impossible for me to ram the first brute squad. However forcing Brute to build turret is better - economically - than ramming the first brute squad (supply elevators produce 300 supplies per minute).

[/li]- gives a momentum if ramming succeeds (even better if also the second squad is rammed)

  • risky if ramming fails

Supply pads + hogs

Build order : hog + rector + gunner + sp + barracks

I used this strategy as Anders against Brute sometimes. It is bit more difficult with Cutter since gunner costs 125 supplies more (and is also bit slower to research).

In this build order 2 of the hogs are used to ram down brute squads before teleporter. After the gunner (1:00) the hogs maybe used to harass Brute’s base.

I guess this build is totally flawed with Cutter against Brute. Cutter’s economy in this build is awful (only 1 of 3 first buildings is producing supplies + hogs are ramming instead of collecting supplies).

[/li]- bad bad bad

  • auto-loss if first brute squad passes
  • auto-loss if brute goes temple second

Conclusion

Despite build orders I tend to lose against Brute players of equal TS level. It is usually a deadly combination to mix jackals and vortex. If the Brute has control of his own supply elevator then he has enough supplies to use that vortex a lot. Since jackals has better range than flamethrowers it is hard fight for Cutter (or any UNSC).

Please, feel free to comment/suggest strategies/lol.

P.S. I felt so good to win even once this matchup.

2

I never camp his lift on this map might be a bad idea but it has worked all right. I go hogs plus barracks first. Keep on building hogs and send two marines to supply hook. Go barrack sp sp sp barracks supply pad reactor. During the third supply pad is building or sooner depending if my hogs can pick enough supplies up i send three marines to the reactor hook. Get gunner , and may get upgrades in barracks depending on the situation. Just harras or camp his lift with gunner hogs. Double pump flamers/ marines mixed mostly flames. Get both supply hooks and reactor hooks destroy barracks and a supply pad for two depots get cani and push. Mix wolves as needed.

3

> I never camp his lift on this map might be a bad idea but it has worked all right. I go hogs plus barracks first. Keep on building hogs and send two marines to supply hook. Go barrack sp sp sp barracks supply pad reactor. During the third supply pad is building or sooner depending if my hogs can pick enough supplies up i send three marines to the reactor hook. Get gunner , and may get upgrades in barracks depending on the situation. Just harras or camp his lift with gunner hogs. Double pump flamers/ marines mixed mostly flames. Get both supply hooks and reactor hooks destroy barracks and a supply pad for two depots get cani and push. Mix wolves as needed.

why not camp his lift ? go barracks first camp his lift and send your first marine to his hook and your second marine to your own. He has to come back with his chieftain to kill the hogs giving you time to get his hook. He will not have the money to vortex you out since he went temple first+brute squad. Also send only 1 marine to your reactor, just click on gunner and/or flashbang after that everytime he is trying to get his own hook just harrass his base with gunner hogs forcing turrets/recall. In the mean time you keep spamming hogs/flamers and eventually spartans/hornets/scorps depending on what he does.

4

> > I never camp his lift on this map might be a bad idea but it has worked all right. I go hogs plus barracks first. Keep on building hogs and send two marines to supply hook. Go barrack sp sp sp barracks supply pad reactor. During the third supply pad is building or sooner depending if my hogs can pick enough supplies up i send three marines to the reactor hook. Get gunner , and may get upgrades in barracks depending on the situation. Just harras or camp his lift with gunner hogs. Double pump flamers/ marines mixed mostly flames. Get both supply hooks and reactor hooks destroy barracks and a supply pad for two depots get cani and push. Mix wolves as needed.
>
> why not camp his lift ? go barracks first camp his lift and send your first marine to his hook and your second marine to your own. He has to come back with his chieftain to kill the hogs giving you time to get his hook. He will not have the money to vortex you out since he went temple first+brute squad. Also send only 1 marine to your reactor, just click on gunner and/or flashbang after that everytime he is trying to get his own hook just harrass his base with gunner hogs forcing turrets/recall. In the mean time you keep spamming hogs/flamers and eventually spartans/hornets/scorps depending on what he does.

BC has a chopper, so there’s no way you can get his hook with a marine walking over, but I agree with the rest.

5

> > > I never camp his lift on this map might be a bad idea but it has worked all right. I go hogs plus barracks first. Keep on building hogs and send two marines to supply hook. Go barrack sp sp sp barracks supply pad reactor. During the third supply pad is building or sooner depending if my hogs can pick enough supplies up i send three marines to the reactor hook. Get gunner , and may get upgrades in barracks depending on the situation. Just harras or camp his lift with gunner hogs. Double pump flamers/ marines mixed mostly flames. Get both supply hooks and reactor hooks destroy barracks and a supply pad for two depots get cani and push. Mix wolves as needed.
> >
> > why not camp his lift ? go barracks first camp his lift and send your first marine to his hook and your second marine to your own. He has to come back with his chieftain to kill the hogs giving you time to get his hook. He will not have the money to vortex you out since he went temple first+brute squad. Also send only 1 marine to your reactor, just click on gunner and/or flashbang after that everytime he is trying to get his own hook just harrass his base with gunner hogs forcing turrets/recall. In the mean time you keep spamming hogs/flamers and eventually spartans/hornets/scorps depending on what he does.
>
> BC has a chopper, so there’s no way you can get his hook with a marine walking over, but I agree with the rest.

well I tried it against some good players and they used their chopper to try and ram my hogs camping the lift instead of my marine. Its risky true that. I dont know exactly how many hogs you have out at that point but you can send 2 hhogs to his base to camp the lift and leave 1 hog together with your 2 marines. So when he does try and ram your marine, you can grenade+ram to kill the chopper.

6

> I never camp his lift on this map might be a bad idea but it has worked all right. I go hogs plus barracks first. Keep on building hogs and send two marines to supply hook. Go barrack sp sp sp barracks supply pad reactor. During the third supply pad is building or sooner depending if my hogs can pick enough supplies up i send three marines to the reactor hook. Get gunner , and may get upgrades in barracks depending on the situation. Just harras or camp his lift with gunner hogs. Double pump flamers/ marines mixed mostly flames. Get both supply hooks and reactor hooks destroy barracks and a supply pad for two depots get cani and push. Mix wolves as needed.

Agreed.

7

I’ve had lots of trouble against Brute on this map as Forge, but my hook control is getting better. I just send my flamers wherever the BC isn’t and it works out well lol. Is two barracks a good idea? I never do it because I’m scared of quick double summit. Also, if the BC gets both reactor hooks on this map it is game over… so don’t let it happen. :stuck_out_tongue:

8

There is no “best” way to play vs brute. Barracks 1st and Gunner builds both can work if done right. Its really more about the little things like crates, spawn blocking, forcing recalls, micro n macro, unit production and timing. Both builds work.

Though if you have 1 mess up don’t panic. As anders if the cov gets both my money early game. I will take both reactors go gauss and oxide. Ill keep forcing recals with my hogs and then put pressure on the money hook to keep the brute occupied/ away from the reactors. Ill avoid all major contact though until im done upgrading. He may have money but he’s still at tech 1. I just make sure he deosnt get a reactor until 4-5 min. Plus I always click canni even if I didn’t build a tank yet. Its def a hard map vs brute but UNSC has the advantage of being more versitile.

9

You would go with Anders instead of Cutter also on this map against Brute? O.o

10

I always play as the brute and when i scout out a players base and see that they are building infantry, i just banshee rush instead… So instead of hitting the player at the 2 min mark, its more like 4min into the game… The supply hook on blood river is super easy for me to get, there are only two low class sentinels guarding it. Then i put my brutes in the towers.

just like this cutter player found out

or this guy on blood gulch who went infantry and hogs

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not call out individuals. This includes forum members, moderators, administrators, and non-forum members.

11

>

im sorry but looking at the stats those arent very good players you played against. Against good players you wouldnt get your summits up and get your supply hooks that easily

12

> There is a “best” way to play vs brute. Barracks 1st and Gunner builds both can work if done right. Its really more about the little things like crates, spawn blocking, forcing recalls, micro n macro, unit production and timing. Both builds work.
>
> Though if you have 1 mess up don’t panic. As anders if the cov gets both my money early game. I will take both reactors go gauss and oxide. Ill keep forcing recals with my hogs and then put pressure on the money hook to keep the brute occupied/ away from the reactors. Ill avoid all major contact though until im done upgrading. He may have money but he’s still at tech 1. I just make sure he deosnt get a reactor until 4-5 min. Plus I always click canni even if I didn’t build a tank yet. Its def a hard map vs brute but UNSC has the advantage of being more versitile.

whats the point of clicking canni when you dont have a tank yet ? whats the point of having an upgrade for a unit when you dont have the unit out yet ? or are you talking about sending 1 marine to the hook so it will die eventually so you are forced to que up canni quick ?

13

> You would go with Anders instead of Cutter also on this map against Brute? O.o

that gauss+oxide bro

14

> >
>
> im sorry but looking at the stats those arent very good players you played against. Against good players you wouldnt get your summits up and get your supply hooks that easily

Who was he playing against and why did his post get censored???

15

> > There is a “best” way to play vs brute. Barracks 1st and Gunner builds both can work if done right. Its really more about the little things like crates, spawn blocking, forcing recalls, micro n macro, unit production and timing. Both builds work.
> >
> > Though if you have 1 mess up don’t panic. As anders if the cov gets both my money early game. I will take both reactors go gauss and oxide. Ill keep forcing recals with my hogs and then put pressure on the money hook to keep the brute occupied/ away from the reactors. Ill avoid all major contact though until im done upgrading. He may have money but he’s still at tech 1. I just make sure he deosnt get a reactor until 4-5 min. Plus I always click canni even if I didn’t build a tank yet. Its def a hard map vs brute but UNSC has the advantage of being more versitile.
>
> whats the point of clicking canni when you dont have a tank yet ? whats the point of having an upgrade for a unit when you dont have the unit out yet ? or are you talking about sending 1 marine to the hook so it will die eventually so you are forced to que up canni quick ?

Well its cheaper to upgrade then to produce units and take back the money hooks. So I can uprade to oxide and canni while upgrading pads, then push for the money hooks. 1 marine should be able to take the reactor hook with hogs help.

Tensa played Mighty Icy 9x on blood gulch and blood river losing every game. He was kept asking me what to do, what i posted here is what I told him. He had me invite mighty icy to a private game and prove it. I went 2-0 and won both maps. People think brute has advantage on this map but he deosnt.

16

> > >
> >
> > im sorry but looking at the stats those arent very good players you played against. Against good players you wouldnt get your summits up and get your supply hooks that easily
>
> Who was he playing against and why did his post get censored???

Against some random people I dont know , but they had pretty bad win/loss ratio and did stupid stuff. Dont know why it go censored , guess you are not allowed to post links in that way.

> Well its cheaper to upgrade then to produce units and take back the money hooks. So I can uprade to oxide and canni while upgrading pads, then push for the money hooks. 1 marine should be able to take the reactor hook with hogs help.
>
> Tensa played Mighty Icy 9x on blood gulch and blood river losing every game. He was kept asking me what to do, what i posted here is what I told him. He had me invite mighty icy to a private game and prove it. I went 2-0 and won both maps. People think brute has advantage on this map but he deosnt.

okay. I just think that an equally skilled anders loses to an equally skilled brute on those maps. its a lot easier for anders to make mistakes on those maps, because she has to micro more and be creative.

but yeah someone who masters anders should always beat a brute on each and every map

17

> > > >
> > >
> > > im sorry but looking at the stats those arent very good players you played against. Against good players you wouldnt get your summits up and get your supply hooks that easily
> >
> > Who was he playing against and why did his post get censored???
>
> Against some random people I dont know , but they had pretty bad win/loss ratio and did stupid stuff. Dont know why it go censored , guess you are not allowed to post links in that way.
>
>
>
>
> > Well its cheaper to upgrade then to produce units and take back the money hooks. So I can uprade to oxide and canni while upgrading pads, then push for the money hooks. 1 marine should be able to take the reactor hook with hogs help.
> >
> > Tensa played Mighty Icy 9x on blood gulch and blood river losing every game. He was kept asking me what to do, what i posted here is what I told him. He had me invite mighty icy to a private game and prove it. I went 2-0 and won both maps. People think brute has advantage on this map but he deosnt.
>
> okay. I just think that an equally skilled anders loses to an equally skilled brute on those maps. its a lot easier for anders to make mistakes on those maps, because she has to micro more and be creative.
>
> but yeah someone who masters anders should always beat a brute on each and every map

Equal? Thats a math term in reality nothing is equal. Never use the word equal outside of numbers, it just deosnt make sense.

18

> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > im sorry but looking at the stats those arent very good players you played against. Against good players you wouldnt get your summits up and get your supply hooks that easily
> > >
> > > Who was he playing against and why did his post get censored???
> >
> > Against some random people I dont know , but they had pretty bad win/loss ratio and did stupid stuff. Dont know why it go censored , guess you are not allowed to post links in that way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Well its cheaper to upgrade then to produce units and take back the money hooks. So I can uprade to oxide and canni while upgrading pads, then push for the money hooks. 1 marine should be able to take the reactor hook with hogs help.
> > >
> > > Tensa played Mighty Icy 9x on blood gulch and blood river losing every game. He was kept asking me what to do, what i posted here is what I told him. He had me invite mighty icy to a private game and prove it. I went 2-0 and won both maps. People think brute has advantage on this map but he deosnt.
> >
> > okay. I just think that an equally skilled anders loses to an equally skilled brute on those maps. its a lot easier for anders to make mistakes on those maps, because she has to micro more and be creative.
> >
> > but yeah someone who masters anders should always beat a brute on each and every map
>
> Equal? Thats a math term in reality nothing is equal. Never use the word equal outside of numbers, it just deosnt make sense.

you get the point -_-

19

No one is ever equal in skill, though. Nothing but numbers are equal. So if a brute plays and anders it would be impossible for them to be equal in skill. Thus one who is more skilled will win. Nothing to do with leader.

20

> You would go with Anders instead of Cutter also on this map against Brute? O.o

Yeah I prefer anders vs COV then any other unsc player